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Underground > Policy & Help >

Dealing with aggressive attempts to lower the quality of what is left of Barbelith.

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18:28 / 26.08.08

Yeah, Im going to second the new ban Darkmatter motion. For some reason I had assumed he had been baned.

18:40 / 26.08.08

Going through the previous Policy thread on this numbnuts, it would seem that the only reason he wasn't banned last time around - both times - was that the banning mechanism was broked. There were, what, fifteen mods who registered their agreement with the banning proposals?

Given that, plus the new thread in Temple, I can't see any particular reason why this can't be pushed up to Tom immediately. Any objections?

19:11 / 26.08.08

Okay, I've emailed Tom, providing an explanation and the same links given by Finklestein, and asked him to check with Haus and then ban if he's in agreement. Doesn't seem a huge amount of point in asking if there are any objections, considering that this was already discussed and agreed by the board as a whole eleven months ago, and it's not as if Darkmatter has done anything to right wrongs in that time.

19:29 / 26.08.08

Yeah, that's right - he was banned when we still thought the button worked.

19:43 / 26.08.08

Much appreciated, E. Randy.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:19 / 27.08.08

Yeah, we did all agree on a ban, and kind of assumed it had worked. If it didn't, then the new method is MORE than good for coping.

17:07 / 27.08.08

Greetings:

I have not posted in this discussion because I still feel like the small fry, but I thought that it wouldn't kill me to speak. My thoughts on this topic is that banning trolls/spammers/other deranging breeds can lead to very complicated consequences. Especially when the (soon to be) banned ones proceed to ad hominem the moderators (I'm a native spanish speaker, and not once did I thought that speaking any language is a basis of segregation, turns out that those kinds of allegations can be made). While I trust the choices that the moderators have in certain areas o others, it would be wise to exersice caution while dealing with such kind of people, feeding the troll more often than not ends up with a fat troll.

I'm quite interested in the option of the shunning thread, it could be healthily used as an option previous to banning. Moreso, it could back the moderators with the opinion of their peers to support their cases and ease their life.

Ruobhe Leafdancer.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

18:00 / 27.08.08

How does kicking a troll of Barbelith harm Barbelith?

18:13 / 27.08.08

The shunning thread is an awful idea. On so many levels. It *is* feeding the troll.

Ruobhe, I appreciate that you're trying to help, but it's not like any of us are new to this. All of those things have already been considered. If a troll wants to ad hominem Haus or myself, that's fine, because it'll only add to the list of reasons to ban them. It's got to be like water off a duck's back to Haus by now and I'm happy enough in my own little bubble of self-assuredness that I'll most likely take is as proof that I'm helping to do something that's right.

This system will work.

Anna de Logardiere

18:25 / 27.08.08

I think that the consequences of not banning trolls may be more complicated than the consequences of banning them.

I'm with Randy on the shunning thread because obviously telling people you're not talking to them elsewhere couldn't possibly make them want to shout louder. I think that putting board members under pressure to deal with each other critically and constantly bring up their faults really did cause people to exit. Sap the fun out of a space that people visit in their leisure time and you end up with a dead social space. Starting a shun thread is a good way to encourage the people who post here to attack one another, that shouldn't really be the primary function of barbelith but it appears to have become so. I don't think furthering that function and confirming its status is a good way to respond to the problems that are recurring here.

It appears to me that the way to make this a better community is to start focusing on its positive aspects and start working as a group towards encouraging posting. Aggressive positivity even. Do people want to start thinking up ways to do that or are they happier to let it crash and burn?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:37 / 27.08.08

Totally. "Don't feed the trolls" is entirely at odds with "give them their own space". Another board I'm on has tried, with the best of intentions, to use that tactic and, well, it's resulted in SOME REALLY BAD SHIT. A few years ago I think I advocated such a strategy, but now?... for me, personally, NO.

20:36 / 27.08.08

Ruobhe, thanks for taking a risk and speaking up. Even if your suggestion is not implemented, it's nice to hear somebody new pitch in with an idea that's in the spirit of things.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:02 / 27.08.08

It should be noted that, while not the same, the Barbannoy thread often acts in a similar manner to the shunning thread, as far as letting us vent when trollsome behaviour develops elsewhere on the board. It may not always feel healthy and it's also a perfect example of how the idea can turn toxic quickly, but it is there.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:01 / 27.08.08

HCE is right- it is good to hear new ideas.

I'm not sure the Barbannoy thread is quite the same, though, unless I'm missing something. The rules of the Barbannoy thread are, in as much as they exist, the same rules as the rest of Barbelith. Which is no bad thing, imho. And it's not where trolls get sequestered, it's where the rest of us go to moan about them. And it's a good thing that it exists, and it serves a very useful purpose. But it's not quite a "shun" thing. Actually not at all.

02:02 / 28.08.08

Why is there suddenly a Skype link popping up under thread titles? (This is not directly assaulting the quality of discussion on Barbelith, but whose 866 phone number is listed there? What is this tomfoolery? If I call it, will Haus or Tom answer? The mind boggles... 1-800-BRBLITH...)

02:03 / 28.08.08

It seems to be only under the Final Crisis thread in Comics... some trickery where my computer is fooled into 'recognizing' numbers that it thinks are phone numbers, I guess...? Anyway, carry on.

(probably should have put this under THE BOARD IS BROKED! thread, but at first wanted to inject some lighter fare into this thread. However, minutes later after posting, I say this in case anyone felt the need to pounce on me for incorrect thread/topic placement, because technically and admittedly, this 'lighter fare' is a bit off-topic. I have seen others joke around off-topic in other threads and not get called on it; so this would fall under the heading of: I'm just sayin'.)

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:04 / 28.08.08

I think that was a very unwise moderation request, Finderwolf. However, since I am off on a password-scramblin' holiday, someone else can talk about it, if they have the strength.

11:01 / 28.08.08

Aggressive positivity even. Do people want to start thinking up ways to do that or are they happier to let it crash and burn?

I've had some time off and am now back and enjoying the board again, having mentally rearranged my expectations of what the place is for.
I intend to throw fun at the place until it bleeds, who's with me?

Haus of Mystery

12:06 / 28.08.08

13:35 / 28.08.08

PLANT A THOUSAND FLOWERS

14:50 / 28.08.08

Apologies; faux pas admitted, as above.

15:01 / 28.08.08

Ah, the "I'm just sayin'" category. A personal favorite, esp. when I'm feeling feral.

Closed for Business Time

03:10 / 29.10.08

I think I'll start just shouting at the fuckwits from now on. See: panthergod.

Probably, in fact very likely not the greatest, most constructive response mode, but fuck do we have anything to lose at this stage? Thought not.

19:37 / 03.01.09

We given up on this, then? Because dark stallion has been an horrific boil on the site's arse since the day he first rolled up and it seems that nobody much gives a shit. I've a vague recollection of him being asked to raise his game when he started posting, and I know there's been a fair amount of people presmuing that he's a front for an old-timer having a laff, in a "nobody real could be that stupid" kind of way.

Of course, if we're happy with somebody who posts shit like:

i mean it's good they didn't bow to PC pressure, as someone said above that would definitely have been a shame and there's nothing racist about agreeing that the dr is a white guy... altho i agree that a woman doctor who would have been cool (and hot lol!)

then let me know and I'll shut the fuck up myself. Because if that's what we're happy with, I clearly shouldn't be moderating here any longer.

20:34 / 03.01.09

Well, Don't shut the fuck up. I do recall wildstallion / dark stallion being asked to raise their game, and being hopeful at the time that that might happen, but... Shit.

I've tried to be moderate and redirect zem in the Dr Who thread, but... No, right now, I got nothing.

03:24 / 04.01.09

I missed that post until now, even though I read more threads that I would have skipped in the past just to see who's posting, Dr. Who is one of those I'm immediately over my head in.

So, yes. Stallion may be a nice enough person in real life but is, as a poster, an insipid sack of shit. I thought for a while it was just a joke or a plain old troll, but even if that was so, it's a failure there as well.
I almost hate to see one of the ten people left get booted, but not this one. This begs for it, really, on so many levels:

i get it that from reading older threads barbelith used to be more of an extreme pc place but it seems like things have become more balanced recently and personally i believe that's a good thing, after all its never a good idea to be extreme in either direction, just look at where it's got the middle east.

Not that anything can or will happen, but Randy, I'm happy you're still here, and I agree.

museum in time, tiger in space

03:29 / 04.01.09

dude you are the one being reactionary, stop trying to suppress opinions you disagree with. i get it that from reading older threads barbelith used to be more of an extreme pc place but it seems like things have become more balanced recently and personally i believe that's a good thing, after all its never a good idea to be extreme in either direction, just look at where it's got the middle east

Could we just ban him, please?

Oops, crossposted with Tsuga - basically I agree with everything that he's just said.

09:21 / 04.01.09

And this, of course, from the resolutions thread:

sounds fun, is she hot!? i can't imagine wanting to shag my boss she must be 400 pounds.

(Oh, and there's one or two of several recent Alex-posts there that've made me grind my teeth, too, but I've given up any idea there's hope he'll go away.)

Anna de Logardiere

10:49 / 04.01.09

Look at Dark Stallion's sentence construction, has it not struck you that the suit is the antithesis of what was acceptable on barbelith c.2003? Ban him if you want but try to avoid getting an ulcer in the process, especially when you're dealing with someone who has obviously been around for years.

As for the Alex thing can you please either act on it or stop griping all the time?

In fact what would be great is if you could all list the type of comedy that you like? It's the Two Ronnies isn't it, jokes with clear, attainable punchlines? Maybe some American comedy that lets you know when to have a sense of humor through the method of canned laughter?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:50 / 04.01.09

As for the Alex thing can you please either act on it or stop griping all the time?

Yeah, can you? At this point the overall quality of the board is so far into the toilet that it'll make no material difference whatsoever, but it'd be funny. Unlike most of his* posts.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:52 / 04.01.09

*while ordinarily I'd support a poster's chosen gender presentation, seeing that anti-feminist troll referred to with a female pronoun actually makes me a bit fucking sick.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:01 / 04.01.09

Oh, and while I'm logged in: can we ban that toe-rag Dead Megatron? Again, toilet, redundant etc. but at least it'd stop the lying little pillock from falsely stating that alas accused him of rape ever again.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:19 / 04.01.09

Well, we could, and this is probably the last time it would make anything resembling a difference, because at present nobody is getting in (which is a story for another day, or another topic thread). Of course, when I say "we could", what I mean is "we could ask Tom to", although I don't know if he'd actually do it - I mean, Yahoo! has not exactly been a restful place to work lately, so I'm not sure how much brainspace he's likely to have to offer to it.

If we want to do this, and this is where we are setting the bar, I'd probably suggest banning:

Darkstallion
Boy in a Suitcase (sad, but)
Hector Lima
Dead Megatron
MFreitas

For starters, anyway. But, as is eloquently said above, toilet. The necessary changes to Barbelith to make it usable are not going to happen. Better perhaps just to let it be the community the idiots want it to be.

16:01 / 04.01.09

So the place has mutated into something that isn't what it used to be?

I haven't been around much, and have tried to get threads going or stir up some talk, but I've basically switched off from conversation. Still, I can't help but feel like I've come back to a place where everyone has either left or given up, and the newer posters have just held a party that they advertised on facebook, which got out of hand, and are now faced with thousands of pounds/dollars/euros of damage that no one wants to admit to or pay for.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:35 / 04.01.09

What rattles my cage most about all of this is that we had people step up and volunteer to take over the running of the board--competent, trustworthy people, some with years of proven experience in helping to run online communities--but they were turned down.

About the best thing that could happen to Barbelith now would be for posting to be disabled. It makes me pretty sick that a place I invested a lot of my time and effort into* is inevitably going to degenerate into a pit of unchallenged bigotry just like everywhere else on the internet.

*and with which I seem to be strongly associated in people's heads--I get strangers asking me about obtaining access to the board, and recently had an editor** slip a mention of Barbelith into my author bio.

**Ooh did you get one of your essays published Mordant? Gosh blush nice of you to ask yes thanks I did.

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