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Doctor Who, Season Four, Non-spoiler Thread

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15:59 / 30.06.08

Also: I though the Time War timelines were all closed off? That's certainly the impression that Eccleston gave.

On drums: Yes. Suggesting that it's the Master every single time a drumbeat appears on the soundtrack is going to get very old very quickly.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

16:15 / 30.06.08

I am quite curious about the concept of a time-locked war. It definitely gives some explanation as to why the Doctor can't do everything all over again.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:36 / 30.06.08

Isn't the point that Donna is in shock and zoning out?

Otherwise, Black Guardian - nonsensical. Shadow Proclamation - ineffectual, as it was always likely to be, which is a shame because Daleks versus Judoon would be kind of fun. I mean, they might end up storming in at the end when the Doctor brings the planets out of phase, which would be kind of cool, but ultimately you've got villain decay again there - the Judoon are less menacing, and as far as one can tell not significantly better-armed, than the Cybermen, who are useless against Daleks. One can sort of see why the Shadow Proclamation is only ever cited when somebody has flagrantly violated its terms without the expectation of being stopped.

Throwing in the Medusa Cascade and the bees seemed a bit Dean Lerner, but not wholly unfun, and it was nice to see the various missing planets bits being picked up on. Having said which, I'm really uncertain about Paul Ross' actual plan. Also how it all ties in with the Bad Wolf stuff and the coming darkness - which _doesn't_ seem to be the Daleks, so I suppose All had better Be Revealed.

Nonetheless, I found this one frenetic, maybe a bit overstuffed and busy with a bit too much time spent at the Shadow Proclamation, but I thought the various companions were used well and all the emotional beats worked for me apart from the final regeneration, which was indeed so rushed that you've got to suspect something is fishy.

16:37 / 30.06.08

Yeah, the drums are just a heartbeat. However (a tiny however) I'm sure there's a second set of obscured beats beneath the bass-y heartbeat. Donna's a Time Lady or just dodgy sound editing? Probably the latter.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

16:46 / 30.06.08

I'm hoping the 65-minute resolution will be sweet and all will be revealed and I won't want to punch RTD in the junk afterwards.

17:11 / 30.06.08

I'd chuckle if it turns out Davros is intent on stopping the oncoming darkness. Hey, it's a Dalek universe too.

Poke it with a stick

17:17 / 30.06.08

Cheers Kali, I haven't said anything to that effect because RTD's normally so overblown it's scary but maybe, just maybe, Donna was freaking out all alone there.

Hell, she'd just lost everyone she'd ever known and then she arrives at a freaky space station that looks like a chandelier from the outside and a gentlemen's sauna on the inside and she's left to twiddle her thumbs.

I'd be hearing my heart as well, right up until it stopped with fear brought on by the sheer brain-screwing enormity of the shit I was in.

17:46 / 30.06.08

I think it's pretty clear that the faithful companion that will get its everlasting death is the TARDIS itself. In future seasons, the Doctor will travel through time and space by hopping on Dalek Caan's back and yelling "Emergency Temporal Shift!"

17:55 / 30.06.08

But they already had an episode with a dead Tardis.

I´m curious, what will happen to the Daleks this time. It´s always "now they´re all gone", and with a new season, there are again some Daleks, that turn up like some bunny from a hat.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

18:02 / 30.06.08

I heard a theory that the Doctor's most faithful companion is the Tardis. But then if the Tardis were destroyed, not much of a show left, innit?

18:18 / 30.06.08

In future seasons, the Doctor will travel through time and space by hopping on Dalek Caan's back and yelling "Emergency Temporal Shift!"

Or he regenerates into Shatner and screams "CAAAAAAAAAN!"

I...I'm sorry.

Regrettable Juvenilia

18:28 / 30.06.08

Also: I though the Time War timelines were all closed off? That's certainly the impression that Eccleston gave.

It was also the impression that Tennant gave. In this episode. And Davros said something like "Yes, and yet one lone feeble Dalek managed to find his way through, even if it drove him insane, which proves I am a genius!"

19:05 / 30.06.08

What makes you think the most loyal companion is the Doctors , why can;t it be Khan ??

The Dark lord is come the three man in one , Rasolan , Omega and the other , maybe that's who he regenerates in to

Ratson warriors against Daleks anyone !!

Raston Warrior Robot

The Raston Warrior Robot was found in the Death Zone on Gallifrey; it had the ability to move faster than lightning and was capable of taking out a troop of Cybermen (The Five Doctors). According to the Eighth Doctor Adventures novel The Eight Doctors by Terrance Dicks, the robots were built by an ancient race, older than the Time Lords, who were ultimately destroyed by their own weapons. However, the novel Alien Bodies by Lawrence Miles claims that this is just false advertising on the part of their manufacturers. It uses atomic radiation as a power source, drawing it from the atmosphere, and locks onto electrical impulses in the brain of its victim, but can become confused if it meets two beings with the same brain pattern. It is furthermore considered by many fans that the Raston Warrior Robot was made by Rassilon as a weapon against the Great Vampires. This explains the 'inbuilt armaments' that the robot has: arrows which it launches out of its hands to pierce enemy vampires through the heart, razor-sharp discs it throws to decapitate its victims and finally long blades that come out of the robot's wrists which can stab or cut; probably used in close combat or when its primary weapons have run out. Another of these robots appears in the Past Doctor Adventure World Game, also by Dicks.

Russell T Davies, speaking in the March 2008 issue of Doctor Who Magazine, expressed interest in bringing the Raston Warrior Robot back in the new series of Doctor Who, citing the battle between the Robot and the Cybermen in The Five Doctors as one of the finest in the show's history.

19:26 / 30.06.08

Even if the heartbeat was just to signify Donna's shellshock after the theft of the Earth, that doesn't disqualify her from having a destiny altering revelatory moment, does it? The Doctor did make an issue out of her habit for alternate realities. Donna's own constant self-depreciative cries of "I'm just a temp," make me think that the opposite is true and that there's something more to her.

Ooh, maybe she is just a temp. Maybe she's a temporary human, before her true identity or purpose is revealed?

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

19:42 / 30.06.08

There's a thought. It would tie into what the fortuneteller said: "Who are you? What will you be?"

19:50 / 30.06.08

Ooh, maybe she is just a temp. Maybe she's a temporary human, before her true identity or purpose is revealed?

More and more this feels true. Truthier. It has a truthiness.

He says reality seems to keep getting altered around her. Possibly because her own personality/selfiness has been changed. Even the Doctor can't see through a Chameleon Arch directly.

Edit: Oh, blimey, look at her name. What's a type of noble? A Lord. What does Donna mean in Italian? Lady. Lord, lady. Time Lady?

19:53 / 30.06.08

It'd be nice if she was Lalla Ward.

19:53 / 30.06.08

Or Romana, even.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

20:03 / 30.06.08

Triplets, if you've cracked the code, then I'm buying you a Coke. Sometimes everything is in the names.

Mysterious Transfer Student

20:05 / 30.06.08

And Mr Romana, great friend of Barbelith, Richard Dawkins appeared this episode... it all links!!34!

20:06 / 30.06.08

One last piece of speculation for the day:

This season has had themes of genetic manipulation and cloning, like the Sontarans and Jenny's birth. What if Donna isn't anything remotely Time Lord-ish, but is in fact a specially created human. She might have been designed by a secret organisation, or people like UNIT (not bloody likely, considering they're just about as competent as Torchwood), to act as a final weapon against alien invaders. Maybe the Osterhagen key that Martha has is used to activate her? Maybe Martha acts as the military presence next week, determined to do what she views as something morally grey, but ultimately for the good of humanity. This'd also tie in with some of the military themes we've had this season in the sontaran and Jenny episodes.

20:06 / 30.06.08

"You're something new" is significant, I think. It either means a) The Shadow Proclamation has no knowledge of hooomans and how wonderful they are(fairly unlikely) or b) she's the only person ever to have beaten a beetle (fairly likely, as there probably aren't many people who have a dimension-hopping pal looking out for them and a Tardis to sort things out).
So, what does that mean? I'm up with the fanwankery mirroring above. Donna now has some sort of timeline-changing ability. The decisions she makes are more significant than other people's, possibly even to the extent that she could make sure that while Rose and the Doc run down that painfully loooooong road (she was the only other one there, after all), it's Rose who buys the farm instead. My money is on Rose to go, as it wraps up her story properly. I also really like the "three-in-one" theory of Rassilon, Omega and.. the other one. It would be a nice nod to McCoy, who, as you know, I think is horribly underrated.

20:38 / 30.06.08

So, uhh, are there any good people in wheelchairs in Doctor Who? So far we've got Dave Ross, Max Capricorn and Trigger. And they're all bad.

20:54 / 30.06.08

I'm with sleaze on this, ultimately. If Donna is anything other than a full-on, regular human being, that's going to be one shitmungous storyline.

The "I'm nothing special" stuff needs to be leading up to her winning the day through sheer force of will and personality. Giving her superpowers - and making it so that she had them all along - will cheapen every other episode in this series.

Unless it's tied to the shit that the Rachnos pumped into her. That, they could get away with, given that it was during her first appearance.

20:59 / 30.06.08

Me: Also: I though the Time War timelines were all closed off? That's certainly the impression that Eccleston gave.

Milton: It was also the impression that Tennant gave. In this episode. And Davros said something like "Yes, and yet one lone feeble Dalek managed to find his way through, even if it drove him insane, which proves I am a genius!"

I know, but it makes no sense. The thing that's allowing the rules of the game (as explained by the Doctor on a few occasions) to break down seems to be linked to Donna, if not Donna herself. If rescuing Davros breaks those rules, then it also has to be tied to Donna, yet she's had no contact with the Daleks before this episode.

21:30 / 30.06.08

The Raston Warrior Robot was found in the Death Zone on Gallifrey; it had the ability to move faster than lightning and was capable of taking out a troop of Cybermen (The Five Doctors). According to the Eighth Doctor Adventures novel The Eight Doctors by Terrance Dicks, the robots were built by an ancient race, older than the Time Lords, who were ultimately destroyed by their own weapons. However, the novel Alien Bodies by Lawrence Miles claims that this is just false advertising on the part of their manufacturers. It uses atomic radiation as a power source, drawing it from the atmosphere, and locks onto electrical impulses in the brain of its victim, but can become confused if it meets two beings with the same brain pattern. It is furthermore considered by many fans that the Raston Warrior Robot was made by Rassilon as a weapon against the Great Vampires. This explains the 'inbuilt armaments' that the robot has: arrows which it launches out of its hands to pierce enemy vampires through the heart, razor-sharp discs it throws to decapitate its victims and finally long blades that come out of the robot's wrists which can stab or cut; probably used in close combat or when its primary weapons have run out. Another of these robots appears in the Past Doctor Adventure World Game, also by Dicks.

Yes.

YES!!

YES YES YES YES YES.

yes

YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

22:53 / 30.06.08

Please, no.

So, uhh, are there any good people in wheelchairs in Doctor Who? So far we've got Dave Ross, Max Capricorn and Trigger. And they're all bad.

Umm... Err.. yeah. Let's not forget Sil, who effectively had a wheelchair, too. And that dwarfy fellow in Weng-Chiang. I must admit I have frequently tried to ignore this and it does bother me. Yeah, for all the racial and sexual diversity trumpeted in New Who, there's a bit of a slant against disability. One step at a time?

23:49 / 30.06.08

I'm probably very wrong; but isn't the church behind the TARDIS when it lands, finally, on Earth the same one from 'Father's Day'?

07:50 / 01.07.08

I thought it was the same Church too, but nothing was made of it so I assumed not. However there was no in series reference to visiting the same hospital in two time zones in the first series either.

Good people in wheelchairs...Er...Judson before he suffered the Curst of Fenric.

That said Trigger was only in a wheelchair because the actor had an accident shortly before filming.

08:02 / 01.07.08

Perhaps it's the ultimate Davies / Whedon | Who / Buffy crossover time? Finally, the Daleks have found their ultimate super soldiers!

DALEK CAAN!
DALEK CAAN!
DALEK CAAN! AND HIS TUROK-HAN!

12:54 / 01.07.08

If Donna really is a Time Lady in disguise, what are the odds that there are other Time Lords all over the universe with their true natures stored away in little trinkets? Maybe the Doctor did that to the whole race and then made himself forget it....

14:09 / 01.07.08

I think that in the end they will reverse all the damage from the Time war and Gallifrey will be restored as if never ever happened.

since this epidose felt a lot like an extended prologue to the real thing, I'll hold my comprehensive review till i see the final episode (i know, I know, you people just can't wait, righ?), but I'll say this: for someone that might be suffering from villain decay, they still manage to make the Daleks very very scary, despite the way they look. The scene where the companions hear their voice for the first time was aces.

Also, I really wish one of the next year specials is a cross-over with my new sci-fi/comic kid-friendly show with fast dialogue filled with references and funny-sounding words, "The Middleman"...

14:31 / 01.07.08

i thought this episode was great, stavross was just a great blast from the past and agreed that the reponse to the daleks from the supporting cast was just right. i didn't mind the steely tough rose, she has been through a lot apparently and it is natural that this will change a gal. she is now bad ass ultimate rose, and though she wouldn't make a good full time companion she is a great guest star. interesting how all ex-companions get careers in their own right one they leave the doctor.

captain jack seems to have turned into bob fossil from the mighty boosh but that is no bad thing in my book.

also, shouldn't the doctor come back as a timelady* next time like the master has? hasn't he used all his regenerations as a fella?

*may not be the correct technical phrase

14:52 / 01.07.08

also, shouldn't the doctor come back as a timelady* next time like the master has? hasn't he used all his regenerations as a fella?

Technically The Master didn't regenerate. He died, got cremated, and then someone picked up his ring. The Master being The Master though that was probably his "+4 Ring of Evil Possession".

There's no reason a Timelord couldn't switch gender during regeneration (although I don't think it's been shown on-screen yet unless you count The Curse of Fatal Death).

I like the idea of Donna being "different" simply because of her exposure to huon particles/time beetles, etc. But like a previous poster said, RTD is all about the Deus Ex Machina for his season closing acts.

Donna'll fire a tiny Raston Warrior Robot out of her hand which does everything the Doctor does, only better.

07:16 / 02.07.08

I went and looked up Donna Noble in the Dr Who Encylopedia at work today, and there are two interesting things to note:

1) There is no explanation of why the Empress of the Rachnos chose Donna as the vehicle for her huon-particle saturation project - leaving the way open for an explanation to occur in this series.

2)The Doctor noted, when he first met Donna, that she had a strange tendency to be out of the loop during the major alien invasion events - she was in bed with a massive hangover for the whole of the Sycorax Invasion, and she was on a diving holiday in Spain when the Battle of Canary Wharf occurred between the Dalek and Cyberman armies.

So...what if something is protecting her? Or was protecting her, but is finding it more difficult since she got involved with the Doc? Maybe the Doctor dispersed the surviving Timelords through time and gave them a chameleon arch variant which also serves as some kind of subconscious protection device - it senses danger, subliminally, and nudges its human away from the source of the danger - then wiped his own memory of it for their protection?

Maybe Donna is the first Time Lord (well, Lady) who remembers this - who wakes up? Maybe her awakening triggers all the other 'Children of Time' to wake up as well? Maybe River Song is a Time Lord from after this event, and this is why she's so awed at meeting Donna? For her it's like going on a routine mission and meeting Jesus or Buddha...

Maybe these hidden Time Lords are the Doctor's real legacy, and maybe, like the Ood, the 'song that's coming to an end' is their song of sorrow and concealment?

And maybe, if one of those Time Lords was dropped off in first century Palestine with no memory of who he'd been before, and then married a prostitute, and had babies, and if those babies grew up and ruled France in secret for thousands of years...would that make Bethany, like, part black?

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