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Doctor Who, Season Four, Non-spoiler Thread

 
  

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Kali, Queen of Kitteh
22:40 / 09.07.08
Thanks, iamus, for also agreeing with Lady's LJ. That was some good writin', I reckon.

I, for one, DO NOT WANT them to bring back Donna in any form. As much as I adored her as the Time Lord's Ultimate Companion, her story ended. Anything else is a falsehood and a lie.

I say leave it alone. We got that shit ending for her from RTD (and really, dear hearts, did we expect anything else?) so let's move on. I know that Moffat can't possibly do stupid and ridiculous for what he has been handed. (Well, I don't personally know, but let's say hope.) I'd rather this future forge out better than returning to tired old tropes.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
22:57 / 09.07.08
Ah but some old tropes should be returned to as often as possible.

I'm thinking about Sontarans, Sarah Jane Smith, and Sir Alaister Gordon Lethbridge Stewart.

I have no qualms in saying that this 31 year old will be sitting down with his niece and nephew to watch the upcoming SJA episodes that feature the old boy return from Peru. Frabjous.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
23:06 / 09.07.08
Jiminy, I'd be all about Sir Alastair coming back in New Who. I feel he'd whip everyone into shape with his crochety arthitic arse.
 
 
iamus
23:09 / 09.07.08
I just watched Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead again. I was kind of taking notes, because there's a million brilliant things going on there (and not just in the writing), and was gonnae write a bastard of a post...

Just watch that fucker again. It's twice as good and twice as clever the second time around (unlike Blink, which is astounding the first time you see it, but not quite as good the second time because so much of its power hinges on not knowing what's coming next.)

That really is some astounding telly, right there.


Have you watched the Confidential yet? It's all about how Moffat's opening the future of the series up, creating a nostalgia for the future by saying "You know how cool the Doctor is? Well that guy's a total chump. Wait'll you see where he goes from here!".

For whatever shortcomings Russell T has, the man resurrected the show and put it back in TVs all across the world. He did a brilliant job of that, but Doctor Who's a baton to be passed. The show needs to regenerate just like it's main character does. That's why it's been going since 1963 and and that's why he's 900-odd years old.

I love where it's been, but I cannot fucking wait till Moffat starts playing with it.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
23:32 / 09.07.08
iamus, that's the same thing that I've been saying with people here in the States!

They remember it fondly from PBS in their childhoods and always wondered what happened.

No matter the faults of RTD, he brought back something proverbial, near-perfect, and strong.

He did it right for a comeback. And there are many who will argue that, but then they aren't in charge of the telly, are they?
 
 
iamus
22:43 / 19.07.08
I don't know what David Tennant is planning on doing, whether he's having the time of his life or if he's scared of being typecast or what... but c'mon...

Two wee boys from Paisley, living their dreams as the two most important men within their favourite ever TV show (and the whole reason they chose their professions in the first place). Shaping the minds of kids nationwide the way Who used to shape theirs?


See if that doesn't come to pass? I may weep for the loss of all that's good and holy in the world.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
14:50 / 24.07.08
There's an interview with Stephen Moffat up on io9 at the moment, if anyone's interested?

Here.
 
 
iamus
15:57 / 24.07.08
I was just on my way to post the very same!
 
 
Dead Megatron
17:05 / 30.07.08
This article suggest they may be done with revisiting old nemesis(es)

No Black Guardian story arc then, I suppose...
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:59 / 31.07.08
Midway through the season now, and I have to say I wish Agatha Christie had gotten on as a companion.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:03 / 31.07.08
Damn, can't access that link.

It would be a nice break for a season to just go 100% Dalek free. The Daleks were always at their best when they turned up after a couple of seasons (or even decades) absence. This being the second time they've been "utterly wiped out" I personally would prefer for them to be out of the picture for a while.

Bringing in some brand-spanking new Big Bads could really give the show a shot in the arm. But I wouldn't want there to be a complete absence of old Who enemies (although most of the major ones have been used now).
 
 
iamus
09:16 / 31.07.08
The whole panel, with Moffat and Julie Gardner that that soundbite is taken from can be watched on Youtube. Moffat's a very funny guy, if a bit cocky, but considering where in his life he's sitting at the mo, I can forgive him. Also needs to be watched for an absolute belter of a fatbeard question at some point after they open up the floor.
 
 
Dead Megatron
14:54 / 31.07.08


Damn, can't access that link.

Yeah, it seem to have been removed. It's from a news article at syfyportal.com. You can still access it from the site. It's the news called "Next 'Who' Will Be 'Brand New'" (also known as http://www.syfyportal.com/news425260.html).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:14 / 31.07.08
It's not been removed. You're doing it wrong.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:03 / 31.07.08
I am a little Dalek-fatigued; they've taken on a "Spike in Buffy" quality, a little tiring after a while. And, yes, I was given to understand they'd been utterly wiped out by Rose but then they keep reappearing.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:20 / 31.07.08
And that's going to continue. Moffat's stated - in a Confidential from last season, iirc - that he doesn't believe that you can have Doctor Who without also having Daleks.

He's not saying that there won't be appearances from old enemies. He's saying that there'll be lots of new enemies. The one doesn't equal the other.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:00 / 31.07.08
It's not been removed. You're doing it wrong.

Indeed I was. It's been fixed, sorry!
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:28 / 31.07.08
Well, if there are going to be Daleks forever, I suppose it can be okay if there are also occasional Cyberman/Dalek verbal slap-fights as during Canary Wharf. Because that, that was the most hilarious thing I've ever seen.

Silence in the Library totally kicked my ass, too, and I'm looking forward to watching part 2 tonight.
 
 
iamus
14:00 / 01.08.08
Forest of the Dead will totally mince your ass.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:10 / 01.08.08
It did...

Actually, having watched the whole season now, I have to say that the Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead two-parter was the real high-point for me. Marks went to Midnight for its psychological drama and the simple fact that it was one of those weird and metaphorical-sounding destinations that the Doctor often mentions -- a planet of diamond called Midnight. So beautiful.
 
 
Triplets
02:21 / 02.08.08
My favourite line from Season 4 is, "Nothing can live on the surface of midnight!". Simple, yet full of meaning. Fucking beautiful. Up there with, "The angels have the telephone box".
 
 
Triplets
02:25 / 02.08.08
What I find interesting is that the best episodes of New Who are the ones that, yes, are written by the Grand Moff, but also don't hearken back to previous Who baddies (except, possibly, for Impossible Planet's Sutehk/Beast link).
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:44 / 02.08.08
's why I think the Ood worked so well-- they were self-contained to the Nu-Who, even if they maybe possibly connected in an incidental way to previous stories.

I liked aspects of the finale. I think all the talk of the companions-as-soldiers was a bit of a confusion, a distortion on Davros's part (and Donna's, earlier); the Children of Time strike me more as being remade by their experiences into human Doctors, replicating aspects (both good and bad) of the Doctor. Sure, Martha may be more military now, but the Doctor worked with UNIT back in the day too, so it doesn't really seem out of line with it.

And Donna-the-Companion as the companion who dies metaphorically was pretty tragic. It's very counter-intuitive, having a character develop and then taking it all away, which makes it more effective to me.

Davros himself was silly, but I suppose that was the point. The old Who foes are the worse for wear, broken down by the Timewar...
 
 
Triplets
17:12 / 02.08.08
's why I think the Ood worked so well-- they were self-contained to the Nu-Who, even if they maybe possibly connected in an incidental way to previous stories.

What way was that?

I have to say my fave episodes are Blink, The Empty Child/Doctor Dances, The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit and, for all it's mighty marmiteyness, Midnight. There's a few episodes of early Eccleston I haven't seen so there might be a few others but I really hope Season 5 onwards leans heavily towards horror Who. They Keep Killing Suzie was my fave out of Torchwood too, actually. Moar Whorror!
 
 
Triplets
17:17 / 02.08.08
Davros himself was silly, but I suppose that was the point.

Enhgh. He wasn't really silly, though, was he. He was treated as silly in the massive tonal shift of the last 15 minutes or so, which really hurt the episode for me. Spinny Daleks?! Up until that point his vidscreen taunting of the Doctor, the bodyhorror of his carved chest and general creepyness really made me see why Classic Who fans still thought he was one of the best baddies.
 
 
PatrickMM
17:32 / 02.08.08
I don't think Davros got treated as silly, even during the spinny Daleks sequence. He's definitely over the top, but he remained on the scary side of things for me, largely because of the comment he makes about the Doctor turning his friends into weapons. In that moment, he knows that no matter what happens, on some level, he's won.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:34 / 02.08.08
What way was that?

Them being from close to the Sensesphere or whatever it was called.

Davros -- I don't know. Right from the get-go he seemed like a broken old man, bleating into the night about how awesome the Daleks were. He struck me as being entirely ridiculous right away; like Magneto showing up in Planet X and trying to stay relevant. Which worked from my perspective, but maybe I was viewing it differently from others. I never got menace so much as old and foolish, with some firepower.

I agree with your choices of best episodes, adding on Library/Forest-- they really hit it for me. The horror element is a great aspect to balance out the wonder.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:10 / 02.08.08
...thinking about it, I wonder if it has to do with Davros and the other returned villains feeling really, really petty added on to the mocking tone applied to them occasionally (I just can't look at Daleks the same after the catfighting) -- they're just out for revenge against the world that done them wrong. And I don't have the same history with Who, having only seen a few scraps of the old stories.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
01:13 / 03.08.08
Davros -- I don't know. Right from the get-go he seemed like a broken old man, bleating into the night about how awesome the Daleks were. He struck me as being entirely ridiculous right away; like Magneto showing up in Planet X and trying to stay relevant. Which worked from my perspective, but maybe I was viewing it differently from others. I never got menace so much as old and foolish, with some firepower.

Y'see, that's what I got, too. Sure, Davros was a loony raving nutter, but when he undoes his jumper and reveals that he has taken his own skin off to make his master race again, well, that's goddamn gross and creepy and just where it needs to be. Brrrr.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:50 / 03.08.08
PatrickMM ...the comment he makes about the Doctor turning his friends into weapons. In that moment, he knows that no matter what happens, on some level, he's won.

Except he hasn't. When you've built a superweapon capable of not only destroying this universe but all other forms of existence you don't get to 'win' any arguments about the behaviour of any other people who are not actively trying to destroy everything. Otherwise you might as well say that I'm as bad as the Daleks because I once punched a boy that was really annoying me in the balls.

It's generally worked better before when it's come up in the show because the stakes were generally similar, see 'Dalek' or 'The Parting of the Ways'.
 
 
Triplets
10:43 / 03.08.08
Yeah, Dakek worked because Eccleston was acting more of a sadist than even a Dalek at points. Daleks just get on with it<.

I agree with your choices of best episodes, adding on Library/Forest

I've only seen the beginning and end of part 2. I'd blame something, but it'd only be myself. Will torrent today.

[HE] was really annoying me in the balls.

Phrase of the month.
 
 
PatrickMM
15:48 / 04.08.08
When you've built a superweapon capable of not only destroying this universe but all other forms of existence you don't get to 'win' any arguments about the behaviour of any other people who are not actively trying to destroy everything.

But, he did show the Doctor was capable of the same genocide as him, when Doctor II chose to wipe out the Daleks. Admittedly, Davros did not achieve his goal, but at the end of the episode, when the Doctor offers to take him on the ship, he doesn't seem too disappointed with the result. Davros's endgame is to destroy things, and now he's made the Doctor like him, he's shown the Doctor how all his 'children' and the other aspect of himself are willing to commit genocide. In the end, who seems happier with the result, Davros or The Doctor? For me, it definitely looked like Davros.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:18 / 04.08.08
Oh what, when he was cursing the Doctor and calling him the destroyer of worlds, yeah, he looked like he was wetting himself with joy then.
 
 
osymandus
13:36 / 05.08.08
I've always taken it as The Doctor giving choices , and sadly in the respect of stopping the Darlek fleet (who would still wipe out billions of lives) or stoping them , The Doctor always tries every other way to stop them if he can .

Doctor II is half human, with those wacky impulses.
The Doctor also had to firebomb his own world and what ever remained of it , so maybe he already commited 'genocide' ??
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:27 / 05.08.08
Pardon?
 
  

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