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Doctor Who, Season Four, Non-spoiler Thread

 
  

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Whisky Priestess
09:28 / 16.06.08
Although I didn't hate this episode, I think that the things everyone else appeared to LURVE left me rather cold: the invisible and unexplained enemy, the repeating woman - which started off spooky and ended up frankly boring - not to mention the constant repetition of the phrase "X-tonic radiation", which started to sound more like energy drink product placement than plot exposition after a while.

I applaud the anti-ambition of setting a whole episode (pretty much) on a single set with a single small cast of characters - Dr. Who as chamber piece - but I didn't think it was that great. I didn't think it worked especially well as part of the series so far, nor did it completely hold its own as a stand-alone. Although to be fair it's bloody hard to come after Moffat's fab Library 2-parter.

That said, I wandered out to make tea halfway through, knowing that nothing much would have changed when I got back, and it hadn't. I just don't think that's the sign of a good episode - not to mention the frankly clumsy handling of the part where they all suddenly turn on the Doctor: his authority had held good until then and I didn't believe the sudden one-eighty.

Also, mystery and unguessable terrors in the darkness/X-tonic light are all very well but I WANT to know more about the monster. I WANT to know whether Sky's premonition when she cries "She (the ex) said she'd get me, and she has!" is delusion or real. I WANT to know whether the thing was after the Doctor or Sky, and if the Doctor, whether it wanted to use him or kill him. I don't necessarily want to know these things in the episode, but I do want to know them. And if "Midnight" doesn't tie in with anything to follow, I am going to be severely disappointed.
 
 
osymandus
13:44 / 16.06.08
Have to agree with Whisky Priestess . One of the main things about the doctor is he knows , or can find out .
Not due to DEus ex Machina , but becuase he is either nearly 1,000 years old (or 10, million depending upon canon ). And simply has that wealth of experince coupled with knowledge

Also the Doctor does seem to be quite easierly mentally dominated or controlled , seems to me to be mainly to further the plot (badly).
 
 
GogMickGog
15:25 / 17.06.08
I enjoyed it, though it was quite a leap from the standard tropes of much of the series so far. Lots of reviewers referred to it as a 70s disaster flick homage (didn't we get that at Christmas?) but it felt much more like an extended nod to The Twilight Zone. The plot was practically a 50/50 blend of 'Terror at 20,000 feet' and 'The Monsters are due on Maple Street' which is not to say it was derivative, but that it played on the attendant strengths of the format: tight spaces, unseen menace and oodles of paranoid group dynamics.

I thought it all ended rather abruptly with that little exchange between the Doc' and Donna - especially given, as WP has pointed out, the rather slow dynamic of much the episode.

'Don't...Don't...'

Also agree with the previous posters: though it was evidently conceived as a self-contained chamber piece, it did leave a lot unresolved, though much of this might feel more comfortable if tied into the longer continuity. We're not talking Torchwood bad here (no errant stopwatches), but I can't imagine Mr. T. Davies inserting a stop-gap into the series at this point.

Supposedly the next episode's going to leave Tennant to one side, so perhaps his new vulnerability will come to the fore in the finale?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
16:21 / 17.06.08
Lots of reviewers referred to it as a 70s disaster flick homage (didn't we get that at Christmas?) but it felt much more like an extended nod to The Twilight Zone. The plot was practically a 50/50 blend of 'Terror at 20,000 feet' and 'The Monsters are due on Maple Street' which is not to say it was derivative, but that it played on the attendant strengths of the format: tight spaces, unseen menace and oodles of paranoid group dynamics.

Wow. Precisely. Wish I'd thought of that.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:40 / 17.06.08
The plot was practically a 50/50 blend of 'Terror at 20,000 feet' and 'The Monsters are due on Maple Street' which is not to say it was derivative, but that it played on the attendant strengths of the format: tight spaces, unseen menace and oodles of paranoid group dynamics.

Made me think of John W Campbell's "Who Goes There" (later to be movies as The Thing From Another World and then Carpenter's The Thing). Which is no bad thing, as it's one of my favourite SF/horror stories of all time.

Whoah. Before this we had the Borges homage. Fuck, you can argue all you like about the quality of writing, but Christ I want to break into these guys' houses and browse their bookshelves.

I'm eagerly awaiting a Whovian take on the Strugatskys' Roadside Picnic. Only I might die of joy were it to ever happen.
 
 
Chew On Fat
14:52 / 18.06.08
Regarding the 'Alien disembodied spirit takes over a succession of visitors to a strange new environment' plot. Its certainly an old one. It seemed to copy almost exactly a Golden Age Sci-fi story I read years ago. Was one of Ray Bradbury's Martian Chronicles about explorers coming to a deep pit and the entity coming out and possessing them one by one and they hardly realise what's happening before it moves on to the next one? It was one of those guys anyway.

I only mention it because it might be the earliest version of this much-'homaged' plot.

The most obvious take I've seen was in one of Alan Moore's two Youngblood issues. It hardly changed the basics of the original short story at all.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:57 / 18.06.08
"Who Goes There" was 1950, I think, or thereabouts... I'm pretty sure it predated Martian Chronicles, but all my books are in boxes in a different house, so I couldn't tell you for definite.
 
 
sleazenation
15:12 / 19.06.08
Spoilers abound now, as Stoaty and any one with less of an excuse to be reading the Sun yesterday undoubtedly now knows. Probably best to avoid newspapers and the internet for the next three weeks or so for those that wish to remain spoiler free.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:17 / 19.06.08
Heh... off work for the next fortnight, and God only knows when I'll have internet access again...

...mind you, that means I probably won't get to watch the next few for AGES.
 
 
Lucid Frenzy
19:51 / 20.06.08
So Chew On Fat says...

Regarding the 'Alien disembodied spirit takes over a succession of visitors to a strange new environment' plot. Its certainly an old one. It seemed to copy almost exactly a Golden Age Sci-fi story I read years ago. Was one of Ray Bradbury's Martian Chronicles..

..then Stoatie's Power Level replied...

"Who Goes There" was 1950, I think, or thereabouts... I'm pretty sure it predated Martian Chronicles

A quick glance at Wikipedia reveals Who Goes There to be from 1938, almost a decade before the first of the stories that went to make up Martian Chronicles. But I doubt this concept has a single inventor any more than the wheel. Being possessed by bad spirits happens in folklore from pretty much everywhere, in fact it was the generic explanation for illness in shamanic cultures. The Bad Spirit as imposter rests on notions of subjectivity that suggest it might stem from post-literate culture, but I doubt it was coined by one person and everyone else copied them. Some of these ideas are just endemic, like they're lying waiting to be discovered.
 
 
Evil Scientist
17:31 / 21.06.08
Now that was a fracking Doctor Who episode!

Dystopian alternative futures, I love 'em me.

That was the same house Martha hides out in during her own personal Year of Hell wasn't it?
 
 
Shrug
18:01 / 21.06.08
Seemed like it.
I was a sap and teared up; I blame Cribbins and the lifting music near the end.
Although, I'm at a loss as to what Bad Wolf is about as I only follow the series here and there (don't blame me I don't always have a television). Anyone like to fill me in or point to the episodes I should youtube?
 
 
Shrug
18:26 / 21.06.08
Oh, I've wiki-ed it. All is understood. Kind of.
 
 
Axolotl
19:17 / 21.06.08
That was aces. The contnuity geek in me loved the nods to the other Who franchises, even though I don't watch them - I think it really helped the apocalyptic tone of the episode.

Seeing a Donna without the Doctor was a great way of showing us how much she's grown through the series.

Cribbens was great.

The time beetle thing looked really, really shit though.
 
 
Evil Scientist
19:41 / 21.06.08
The time beetle thing looked really, really shit though.

I actually kind of dug that in a Metebelis 3 kind of way.

Quite liked the theme of the various Companions/spin-offs having to sacarifice themselves to stop events that the Doctor just breezes through.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
20:15 / 21.06.08
I liked the way events were subtly altered to incorporate the previous disasters - Atmos not affecting the UK as badly because the infrastructure being screwed meant there were petrol shortages.

The time beetle needed an elastic thread on its back to dangle above Donna's bed.

And nice to see Chantho without her makeup.
 
 
penitentvandal
21:27 / 21.06.08
Just a warning here to anyone who hasn't watched Dr Who Confidential just yet, but close your eyes during the last minute or so of the programme when RTD's wittering on about how his plotting technique is unstoppable because you won't hear anything, but if you have your eyes open you will see a massive, MASSIVE spoiler. Be aware, people!
 
 
Lama glama
21:49 / 21.06.08
Yeah, that came out of nowhere, at the end of Confidential. If they're willing to spoil that, there must be something major in store beyond it.
 
 
Paolo
22:36 / 21.06.08
Its interesting that the last time "causal nexus" was mentioned in Doctor Who, stars also begun to disappear.
 
 
Seth
06:37 / 22.06.08
That was unstoppably brilliant.

So many amazing moments. Cribbin's reaction as the family were taken away by soldiers. The mother's slow deterioration. SJS' self-sacrifice. Tate's performance.

How to sum up a character in two lines of dialogue:

"You can't change the world by shouting at it!"

"I can try!"


And after so many years of blue boxing, the sense of wonder that can still be conjured by such a simple, "It's a time machine?" "It's a time machine."

Absolutely first fucking class entertainment.
 
 
Seth
07:10 / 22.06.08
More! Loved Rose' comment on the TARDIS: "It's still trying to help." Again, stirling compressed character work in tiny lines of dialogue.

I know I really shouldn't be reading Ain't it Cool talkbacks, but the one for this episode did contain this lovely piece of fan guesswork:

my nonsense speculation......rose has eaten the tardis and developed tardis like powers herself.. Donna Noble has an old fob watch somewhere. she's going to die and turn into river song.. thus being a dramatic reversal of the "we're not together" motif and the "you are going to die" motif from this season.

I know there are many people who won't like the plot holes and convenient timescience for the sake of achieving cool moments, but everyone involved played it beautifully to give it real emotional weight. I find it easy to suspend disbelief when Tate is knocking it out of the park so magnificently.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:37 / 22.06.08
So many amazing moments. Cribbin's reaction as the family were taken away by soldiers.

That sent a real shiver up my spine. "It's happening again!"
 
 
raggedman
10:34 / 22.06.08
yeah, i was still reeling from Martha and SJS and her merry band of teen wonders sacrificing
that salute when they're just looking in each others eyes...

so many good things that ep

doctor who, best kids programme ever
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:46 / 22.06.08
A couple of things irk me about that episode, which was otherwise absolutely fantastic. The first is the time beetle. The second is the time beetle.

It looked awful, which was a massive letdown. This storyline was seeeded back in the second episode of the series, with the female seer telling Donna that there was something on her back, and I'd been looking forwards to finding out what it was. For the majority of this episode, it was *really* unsettling - you've got the whole parasite thing, which is icky enough to begin with, but then they combine it with the idea of things just on the periphery of your vision, of other people being able to see it but not being able to yourself. The idea of wrongness. And that works fantastically to conjur up this sensation of dread, especially when other characters through the series have hinted that Donna's going to have something truly horrible happen to her.

The concept of the beetle was sound, too. It works with that idea of slightly freakish normality, so that ver kidz can get a decent freak-out from it - stag beetles are fucking odd anyway, exactly the kind of thing that, when you're young, you're going to be weirded out by, so the concept works with that and says that yeah, you're *right* to be a bit frightened of those things.

It's just a shame that it looked so shit. There wasn't even an attempt to make it look like it was attached to Tate with anything other than velcro - its limbs were flopping around all over the place. And it suffered from the usual problem with these prosthetic things, where they'd tried to animate it, but it was clearly some guy pulling a string. I honestly think it'd have been more effective if it'd been completely still.

The other issue I've got with the time beetle is that I have no idea whatsoever what it was that it was meant to be doing. It feeds off sommething relating to time, we're told, but I can't figure out what, or how its relationship with its host benefits it in the slightest. And I'll be damned if I can work out what part Not-Chanthro was supposed to be playing in all of this.

I know that they're just MacGuffins, a lead in to an episode of otherwise general aceness, but they could have been dealt with far more effectively. You don't have to talk about the exact details of things like the Time War, or explain the fantasy science behind most other stuff that happens here, but when it's the core element that's allowed you to get your story told, you should make more of an effort.

Bad Wolf appearing on the signs came out of nowhere, clumsily. Closing on the close-up on the "oh shit" Tennant face on hearing the words could have worked better, I think. And it's kind of odd that there was a massive parallel between other-Donna's self sacrifice and that of Rose's father - broken timelines, suicide by RTA in order to fix those timelines, Rose being present at the final moments of both lives - without Rose (or RTD?) seeming to notice it.

I only pick on these things 'cause I loved so much else about it. It's easier to notice flaws when most everything else sparkles.
 
 
Miss K
11:48 / 22.06.08
"It's a time machine?" "It's a time machine."

That was a real Grant Morrison moment. Let's hope for more in the forthcoming two weeks!

We know Russell is a huge comics fan. I felt that last year's climax was his attempt at echoing the scope of the original Ellis run of The Authority.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:52 / 22.06.08
Actually, reading that back, I've just remembered that Confidential mentioned that the Doctor's line "it's one of the Trickster's brigade" when prodding the dead time beetle was apparently a link to an episode of Sarah Jane Adventures. They showed a clip of some alien dude suggesting that he was going to wipe the Doctor from history, see how the world managed to turn out without him around. That gives some context to the whole time beetle thing, but it reeks of a poorly-handled crossover. I really hope that when Moffat takes over, he makes more of an effort to allow Who to exist independently of all the spin-offs - I know others liked the mention of the Torchwood crew in this episode, but I found it pretty smelly.
 
 
ghadis
13:27 / 22.06.08
Great episode, Doctor Who is definitely on a roll at the moment.

Billie Pipers voice bugged me a bit though. Has she had some dental work done recently or somthing? She seems to have developed a lisp that i hadn't noticed before.
 
 
ghadis
13:30 / 22.06.08
By 'bugged me' i don't mean that i thought it was bad or awful, just that i couldn't quite put my finger on what had changed with her for a while.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:31 / 22.06.08
Yeah, her voice sounded really thick and syrupy, like her tongue had blown up to three times its regular size, or she was suddenly finding all those teeth too much to deal with. Very odd.
 
 
uncle retrospective
14:45 / 22.06.08
Wow, loved that can't wait for next week. Thought this season was ment to be more up beat than the last one. This is some grim stuff.
Loved all the nods to the other shows and the death of Sarah Jane and the kids was a tough little throwaway. Plus I liked the idea of the bug, I was wondering if it was going to be like the horrible mind control things from Babylon 5 but they really, really should have spent some money on it.
Anyway! Roll on next ep.
 
 
Triplets
17:20 / 22.06.08
Good ep. Who cares about a bug you're not really meant to see properly anyway looking cheap? Not I.

Rose seems a much stronger, take charge woman in this one and it's interesting. Here she's the Doctor for Other Donna, constantly popping in and out of her personal time-frame with cryptics and helpful nudging but otherwise quite alien. She's really trying to step into the suit with the grand importantness, secretive honesty and a-maaazzinnngness of it all, "I thought it'd be like something he'd say!".

All the Companions under Davies outgrow Delta Whiskey so quickly.

Donna makes an important point: why are Rose's clothes always the same? Because she's jumping in and out of Donna's life in the same way the Doctor did for the Girl in the Fireplace? Because this whole ep took, for Rose, about 42 minutes say?

Back to the cheapness of bug. I'm told Midnight and Turn Left were both shot at the same time. Dunno how budgeting works here but perhaps they just split the money for Midnight between both (Midnight's a fairly cheap set locked room episode) and sunk the extra cash that would have gone into Turn Left into the finale episodes? Might be worth waiting for the last two to find out.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
22:06 / 22.06.08
The piece of music that accompanies the Bad Wolf scene is really ace, might be my favourite MuGo piece so far.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:07 / 22.06.08
Back to the cheapness of bug. I'm told Midnight and Turn Left were both shot at the same time. Dunno how budgeting works here but perhaps they just split the money for Midnight between both (Midnight's a fairly cheap set locked room episode) and sunk the extra cash that would have gone into Turn Left into the finale episodes? Might be worth waiting for the last two to find out.

They admitted that this was a cheaper episode on Confidential - Davies wanted the Tardis to explode, with bits of the outside flying towards the camera, when it was looped into the Rose time machine. The special effects guy was on camera telling him that that was a no-go, due to the restricted budget for this story. So yeah, given that Midnight must have cost them even less, the finale should be full of whizzbangpop.
 
 
Lama glama
23:29 / 22.06.08
The piece of music that accompanies the Bad Wolf scene is really ace, might be my favourite MuGo piece so far.

That's called "All the strange, strange creatures," and is definitely one of his strongest tracks (tis on the 2nd soundtrack album). It accompanied a lot of action sequences in season 3. Is it okay to talk about the spoilerish trailer that aired earlier tonight?
 
 
Essential Dazzler
00:13 / 23.06.08
That's called "All the strange, strange creatures," and is definitely one of his strongest tracks (tis on the 2nd soundtrack album). It accompanied a lot of action sequences in season 3. Is it okay to talk about the spoilerish trailer that aired earlier tonight?

Ah, I haven't seen series 3 yet.
 
  

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