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Doctor Who, Season Four, Non-spoiler Thread

 
  

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Dead Megatron
01:15 / 23.06.08
Is it okay to talk about the spoilerish trailer that aired earlier tonight?

Please, don't. Or, at least remember to put the SPOILER ALERT tag.

On the other hand, if you mean the trailer they show at episode's end, by all means go ahead.

There are two espisodes left in the series, aren't there? Because there seem to be a lot of secondary characters in the 'next on Doctor Who' scenes to fit in just 45 minutes.

Lastly, great hair???? C'mon!
 
 
ghadis
01:15 / 23.06.08
I thought Catherine Tate was wonderful this episode. Really, really great. Some of the other acting was a bit shit though. The pub scene was rubbish. Cribbens and Donnas mother were great as usual.

Yea, the beetle thing, when it was revealed, was a bit crap. I'm sure they could have worked that far better. But, it's Dr Who, so you kind of expect and enjoy the rubberyness when it comes. It was very Grant Morrison though, the Doom Patrol issue with Cliffs alternative world being controlled by friends with scarab beetles on their backs popped straight into my head whilst watching. Not a bad thing though as insects on the back on the neck to merge with the spinal column is a science fiction staple, and as it is rooted in historical, scientific fact, i am willing to overlook it.

Roll on next week! Now The Apprentice has finished i literally have nothing else that i watch on telly at the moment until i finally get hold of Season 3 of Deadwood.
 
 
gridley
01:28 / 23.06.08
Moffat said on last week's Doctor Who confidential that he knew around the time "Blink" was broadcast. That's a little under a year ago, and presumably around the time he was starting to write Forest of the Dead. It's very possibly that he threaded his own future plot elements into the script.

Just re-watched Blink and when the Doctor was talking to Sally at the end, he said:

"Sorry, I've got a bit of a complex life. Things don't always happen to me in quite the right order. Gets a bit confusing at times. Especially at weddings. Especially my own."

So at the risk of going all 2+2=5, I reckon the Doctor is going to end up getting married to River at least briefly.
 
 
Dead Megatron
01:34 / 23.06.08
I want to place a bet that we will see the Black Guardian as the bad guy in the final episodes.

I mean, "Darkness"? Stars going out? End of the universe? The way the producers seem to enjoy bringing back old nemesis(es?) for season finales? I never even saw the original series, and I can totally see it happen.

Also, I think the White Guardian is the 13th Doctor...
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:31 / 23.06.08
All the Companions under Davies outgrow Delta Whiskey so quickly.

Delta Whiskey, love it.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:32 / 23.06.08
Sorry to go all fansquee but I really am looking forward to the Crisis on Infinite Whoniverses that appears to be on its way. I am not sure I can wait.

I may burst.
 
 
uncle retrospective
09:11 / 23.06.08
Was the gong ringing in the TARDIS the Cloister Bells? I only know it from the Children in Need ep. I assume it's a very bad thing.
Also loved the really horrible bit where Donna's mum just deadpans that Donna is such a disappointment. Evil stuff.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:20 / 23.06.08
Yep, Cloister Bell. Only rings in times of dire emergency.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
11:54 / 23.06.08
Cloister Bell!

It's not Traken any more. On Traken they were all terribly nice to each other.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:22 / 23.06.08
They had to be, otherwise the Keeper would beat them with a hickory switch.
 
 
Lama glama
13:26 / 23.06.08

There are two espisodes left in the series, aren't there? Because there seem to be a lot of secondary characters in the 'next on Doctor Who' scenes to fit in just 45 minutes.


The next episode is 50 minutes long, while the final episode is at least 60 minutes long, so there's plenty of space for the plethora of returning characters.
 
 
Lama glama
13:29 / 23.06.08
I want to place a bet that we will see the Black Guardian as the bad guy in the final episodes.

I mean, "Darkness"? Stars going out? End of the universe? The way the producers seem to enjoy bringing back old nemesis(es?) for season finales? I never even saw the original series, and I can totally see it happen.


There are more engaging villains than the Black Guardian which I'd like to see return before he of the predilection for bird hats and overgrown schoolboys in tight pants.
 
 
osymandus
13:46 / 23.06.08
A bird hat is a sure sign of true power mind you .
But would either "guardian" actually want to win we're they both about a balance in the universe ???
 
 
Dead Megatron
13:55 / 23.06.08
There are more engaging villains than the Black Guardian which I'd like to see return before he of the predilection for bird hats and overgrown schoolboys in tight pants.

Well, my knowlege in that area (list of who archi-enemies) is somewhat limited, but I'm with you on the costume. Since most of the future people protraied in this show dresses in late 20th century fashion, why not put BG in a black suit with a red tie?

And as for BG and WG not wanting to win, well, Thermodyinamics states entropy will inevitably win, but after 15 billion years, I'd be getting impacient already.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:22 / 23.06.08
The Black Guardian is not going to be involved, for fairly obvious and non-spoilery reasons.
 
 
Dead Megatron
17:18 / 23.06.08
which are, if I may ask?
 
 
Triplets
17:55 / 23.06.08
Nothing has been mentioned about him (in this series or the other new ones) and we're onto the last two episodes.

Fans of New Who only won't know who the hell he is (I don't, for instance).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:07 / 23.06.08
Also, that shit's just embarrassing.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
20:34 / 23.06.08
The Trickster, when he appeared in SJA, was VERY Black Guardian. He even quoted the B.G.'s dialogue from the original run.

My favourite Guardian was the Beige one. Which was yours?
 
 
■
22:32 / 23.06.08
I want to place a bet that we will see the Black Guardian as the bad guy in the final episodes.

OK, I've been VERY good so far this year, but in the interest of saving you money: don't place that bet.
 
 
Triplets
23:40 / 23.06.08
NO REALLY
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:11 / 24.06.08
He even quoted the B.G.'s dialogue from the original run.

Meh, I do that all the time. At work.
 
 
osymandus
10:46 / 24.06.08
You are the BG and i claim my £5 !!!
 
 
Dead Megatron
11:46 / 24.06.08
OK, I've been VERY good so far this year, but in the interest of saving you money: don't place that bet.

I didn't say I was betting money, but thanks for being so good to me. Internet speculation already points to another old nemesis anyway.
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:06 / 24.06.08
Internet speculation already points to another old nemesis anyway.

The Cleaners!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:54 / 24.06.08
The Kricketmen
The Berty Basset Robot from that one episode
Sil
The Celestial Toymaker
 
 
DavidXBrunt
15:50 / 24.06.08
Scratchman.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
16:57 / 24.06.08
Ahh, Sil - now there's a character I'd like to see make a comeback.
 
 
raggedman
18:10 / 24.06.08
Sil definitely deserves a comeback

WARNING:
If you somehow still don't know
don't look at the cover of the Radio Times, no image but it says the words

I can't imagine anyone's still pure but you never know

and i really hope New Who doesn't touch the Guardians with a bargepole
 
 
raggedman
18:15 / 24.06.08
Just went for a google and Nabil Shaban who played Sil has written to RTD with suggestions for Sil's return

[url]http://uk.geocities.com/jinghiz53/Sil_return.html[/url]
 
 
iamus
20:40 / 24.06.08
Big Russ is on fire at the moment, ain't he?

Midnight, as was said before, was the dog's bollocks. Overturning all of the less enjoyable aspects of The Doctor in the past few years and turning it into something beautifully creeping and rotten. Turn Left was a bloody great punch in the stomach for most of the episode too. What with these two following Moffat's two-parter, this season feels more like old Who than any of the previous three.

So this seems to be how the resolved the scheduling problems this season, instead of taking Doctor and Companion out of the picture completely for an episode (a la Blink and Love and Monsters) they split them apart over two episodes and really get to the bottom of their dynamic by showing what happens when one doesn't have the other. On top of that, they're using budgetery constrictions to tell stronger, more character-based stories. That's very bloody clever production. The show's much better for it.

That was a stormer of an episode. Tate has been a constant revelation this series and this was totally her time to shine. She's a far better dramatic actress than she is a comedian and this is the best thing I've seen her in yet.

In a lot of ways this episode seemed almost like a response to the end of last season, which I found to be quite weak, in showing how companions (and the earth) cope in a world without the Doctor. I felt that when Doctor Who first started back, there seemed to be a lot of the old flavour, tempered with a good bit of kiddie-concession. I thought it would gradually fade these bits back as the series established itself. There's been a few episodes here and there that supported that hope (Unquiet Dead, Impossible Planet, Gridlock, Human Nature, Anything By Moffat) but the finale of last-season seemed to me like the more childish elements of it were winning out. Things looked bad for a bit, but I thought Simm's turn was a bit lacking in gravitas and menace while Martha's contribution seemed a little trivialised by the Doctor's rather pat form of self-aggrandising victory.


Not so here (though there's still two episodes to go). That was fucking brutal from start to finish. This is TV that demands the kids to bring themselves up to its level, rather than trying to play down to them. I mean, this episode last season, Utopia, was a really good turn, but I reckon that was down mostly to two scenes: The Doctor's chat with Jack, and Jacobi's gruesome transformation from kindly old professor who'd feed you Whizz-Pop Lemonade into the nasty old scientist who'd touch you up while you were drinking it.

This was a strong, everyday concept (how would the world be different if you'd made just one tiny choice differently) ramped up to mythic status and run with until it crashes into a busload of schoolchildren. That's when any sort of horrific fiction works best, I think.

Strongly written, pulling in everything it can from previous episodes to mix the whole series together into the one big volatile cocktail. There's four seasons of emotional connections built up between show and viewer by now, and RTD looks intent on pulling in favours from all of them.

Very much looking forward to the ending. Gutted I'll be at Glastonbury during next week (O this hard and difficult life), but it does mean I'll be mashing them together into a double-packed sandwich when I do get to watch them, so can't complain.


Loads more to say really, but I think that's the jist.

I liked it, see?
 
 
DavidXBrunt
21:17 / 24.06.08
Do you have to be so ambiguous. iamus?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
22:28 / 24.06.08
Yes, what exactly are you trying to say?

"Overhead, quietly, without any fuss, the stars were going out"

Nine Billion Names of God ref anyone?

Excellent episode, by the way.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
02:05 / 25.06.08
Finally...finally!...get to put my two cents in.

(Only because I'm home from a short mini-break and for god's sakes, finally saw this ep.)

Probably be shot as I say this, but I say it: I liked it, but was underwhelmed. I liked seeing Rose, but I agree with previous posters that it seemed like Piper had finally discovered that she had too many teeth and couldn't figure out how to talk around them. (No, for serious!) Rose was supposed to fill me with the same sort of hopeful mournful feeling that I had when I saw her in brief flashes these past episodes, but the only time I felt joy was when she finally got Donna to believe that she was real and she wanted to help but there was a price to be paid.

Oh, dammit, I lie. I lie because when I started to realize that the world was a horrible shitty place was because this particular universe had NO Doctor. That the Doctor's Companions were being killed off because they were doing what he should that I started getting a wee bit freaked out. But...but Rose was such a cypher, wasn't she? I mean, I've never seen her colder. She was always the heart but she seemed so ruthless, so heartless. And that made her return to me...I dunno...a bit bloodless.

The Time Beetle was shit because it was never properly explained (and no, I have not watched The Sarah Jane Adventures, but that's my folly, no one else's, though I did catch the references.)

The Cloister Bell? Oh lord!!!! Yay!!!

Oh yes, before I stop ranting with my infinite diarrhea of the mouth, we only notice that it says Bad Wolf all around, even on the TARDIS? Just sloppy and silly. Really, Doctor, I expect better from my savior.

I'll be lame and give it three out of five.

(p.s. I'm sure I'll say and judge something else about it later. Please forgive me. Moffat would've done something so scarily awesome with this episode.)
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
06:06 / 25.06.08
"That was Gwen Cooper and Ianto Jones up there."

Eeeee. Okay, that totally made up for Torchwood.
 
  

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