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Final Crisis

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

19:42 / 01.02.09

And waiting for 3/5 of Legion of Three Worlds til after the whole thing's done...

Ah, but that takes place in the future so it's all good.

Actually, Final Crisis has made me idly wonder -- and I won't let it get any further than that, into the terrain of fanwank and fatbeard continuity supping -- if the Johns LSH had a Great Darkness Saga...

02:48 / 02.02.09

Just read the whole thing (Morrison issues only) in a non-normal state. The 3-D stuff was just wonderful. I enjoyed it a great deal. Perhaps one of the most philosophically dense comics I've read.

Rachel Evil McCall

05:04 / 02.02.09

I have a theory that Combover Superman is from an "Earth-Senor-Cardgage" where all the superheroes look like the creepy adults you were scared of as a child.

It may not be a good theory.

20:45 / 02.02.09

We have many, many words over at Mindless Ones!

Part 1 of 2

04:20 / 03.02.09

Well... I need to re-read and read in the suggested order, but as it stands, it was a beautiful love letter to the DCU.

What did Superman wish for, indeed.

12:43 / 04.02.09

is final crisis based on judgment day by alan moore?
i havnt read it but i have the feelings they share a lots of similarities....

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:52 / 04.02.09

One thousand years later, L3W Number 3 is out today! I mean, I'll be more concerned with Scott Pilgrim, but I'm looking forward to some densely-packed group shots of Legionnaires.

18:15 / 04.02.09

is final crisis based on judgment day by alan moore?
i havnt read it but i have the feelings they share a lots of similarities....

To be reading before statement.

On another note I've been mindlessly following Teh Final commentary over on Mindless Ones. Is meaty stuff.

18:20 / 04.02.09

In fact, just to respond to deviant with a bit more substance, wikipedia states (of Judgement Day),

The series deals with a metacommentary of the notion of retcons to super-hero histories as Alan Moore himself creates a new backstory for the characters of Awesome Comics, to replace the shared universe they left when Rob Liefeld left Image several years earlier.

To which I'd say, no, as Final Crisis deals with the clashing grrritty-to-dayglo elements of the DC Multiverse as it is now, not with past histories. Infinite Crisis (not written by Morrison), with Superboy altering time (with his FISTS!1!) and tied up with another past Crisis (also not written by Morrison) was more along those lines, but still not quite.

19:52 / 04.02.09

i am talking about the story being about stories
about the universe in itself and all its components
about the effect of fiction on reality
i dont have always the money to buy comics
some people are poor...

11:42 / 05.02.09

the story is a metafiction in the DC universe
between the themes of darkness and light in comics
also Frankenstein
is the dude

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:27 / 05.02.09

For some reason, I imagine Superman supersang Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah."

Meanwhile, a thousand years after the fact, the third LEGION OF THREE WORLDS came out yesterday, and was the non-shiny comic that I bought. It's a pretty full of action, honestly, between three Legions ganging up on the Legion of Super-Villains, and a stopover to the Twentieth Century (not the Twenty-First!). Johns throws us a complicated family history for XS that I'm not convinced was necessary but is used to explain the original Legion of Three Worlds crisis, the one that wasn't apparently very interesting which is why nobody remembers it. And then he does something that made me happy in a nerdy fanboy sort of way. Perez's art is great as usual.

I've decided that, other than delaying Superman's ability to intervene in the Final Crisis even more than BEYOND did, the only reason fro this particular tie-in (other than reestablishing the Legion as a possible franchise or whatever) is to showcase the horror of Superboy-Prime. Why? Because he's a nice through-line from Crisis to Infinite Crisis to Final Crisis, but they probably didn't want to foreground him so much after IC.

Keith, like a scientist

19:01 / 09.02.09

From that Newsrama interview:

GM: Sonny Sumo is important because he provides the connection between Earth-0 and his home on Earth-51 that Shilo Norman’s Motherboxxx uses to plot an escape route from the doomed DC Earth. See? Now you know even less!

All of those characters are there because I wanted to set up the Super Young Team with him and Shilo Norman as another potential series.

And there was much squeeeing!!! in the Barbe-verse.

Sonny Sumo was a great character, as were the Super Young Team misfits, definitely deserve and expansion.

07:43 / 10.02.09

Well, there is this coming out

Final Crisis Aftermath: Dance

"The Super Young Team will be spotlighted in Final Crisis Aftermath: Dance (the title elicited some giggles from the crowd). "This is about them trying very hard to learn how to do the right thing, and still make their photo shoots, and find out what happens when they take off their costumes and their Q-rating goes down. This one is very sleazy," said Sattler.

"This is very much DCU proper, it's just an ugly way of getting there," said Sattler."

I dunno.. on one hand I think the sales of this one-shot will probably determine whether a Super Young Team mini comes out in the future, on the other hand, I'm not sure I want to read a 'very sleazy' story about the SYT. Also, this probably should be written by Kieron Gillen.

there's also this incidentally,

"DiDio asked Giffen what his post-Reign in Hell comic will be. "Two words: Doom Patrol," said the veteran creator. Giffen then asked how many of the crowd were fans of the Grant Morrison Doom Patrol. Many cheered. "You're going to be really disappointed," said Giffen. "How about the original Doom Patrol?" Slightly less cheers, but still positive. "You guys are going to be really disappointed," said Giffen."

Great.

(http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090207-nycc09-dc-universe.html)

20:18 / 10.02.09

The SYT book (Dance) will be written by Joe Casey, apparently. Could be a lot worse, I suppose.

00:55 / 18.02.09

So, I finally made it through FC. I was waiting for the trade, but someone gave me the last few issues, so...

I liked it. I always liked it, issue by issue, I think, but as a whole it was even cooler (as it should be, yes?) and fulfilling pop righteousness.

Everyone got some great moments, from Superman to Green Arrow. Most Excellent Superbat, of course, had many. But, y'know what? They're better moments for the gleams of criticism, complaints and lauding, that I experienced before getting hold of the last few issues. No amount of description could top the play and interplay of the scenes themselves.

I think I prefer the series without the interruptions, though. Taking out Submit and the two issue Batman and Superman tales reiterates the overlapping nature of stories and that, for the characters, these are events in their lives, not structured narratives. It's cooler not to have the Superman 3D experience before mad vampire Monitor from hell shows up for the I am Your Father/Dad, I Hate You scene. As cool as the Batman story was, and it was very cool indeed, I don't need in this story an explanation of how Batman got free. He is Batman. He gets free. He wins. He thinks of everything.

The artist-shifts actually work for me. The early art made me a bit queasy and by the end it's big and purified.

Hawk-death made our friend from Mars' murder seem gratuitous at its couple pages. Reminded me of the climactic bits in Miller's DKSA. Super-shorthand communication.

And I was extraordinarily (and surprisingly) pleased that Turpin did not die. I didn't even think about it really, until he was saved, and then it was fanboyishly cathartic.

rabideyemovement

05:15 / 23.02.09

Yeah, I thought Tupin was toast for sure. I'm glad they kept him around.
I can hardly wait to collect this in paperback.

03:03 / 17.04.09

happened upon the listing for the hc on amazon and saw new art of superman holding batman: do we know that that image (very striking; i wish i wasn't at work so i could actually post it here) is the final cover art?

09:31 / 18.04.09

I believe it is, yes.

Also, the hardcover is going to contain the Submit one-shot and the two Superman Beyond issues as well as the main Final Crisis issues, which makes a lot of sense.

simulated stereo

07:14 / 19.04.09

But not the two Batman issues, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:06 / 19.04.09

If you're trying to sell a graphic novel of the Batman Run, it makes perfect sense - they've already been collected.

09:42 / 19.04.09

From a readership POV, I think they'd have been better placed within the body of Final Crisis.

Sitting at the end of the RIP trade, they make very little sense if you haven't stopped reading, gone off and read Final Crisis, gone back, read those two issues...etc etc.

On the other hand, it would mean collecting 12 issues, many of them oversized, into one hardback. I guess this would push publishing and retail costs high enough that this would be an unattractive option to DC.

05:13 / 20.04.09

I thought the two FC issues tacked on at the end of the RIP HC made sense thematically with what had gone before. RIP and some of the preceding storylines in Batman had to do with Batman being buried and isolated and somehow living through other episodes of his past and future life, just as here.

The fact that all the isolation experiences blended into one another in his head made the capture by the Apokalyptian New Gods a continuation of them.

Having those episodes in the RIP collection reinforces the idea that Batman's journey in FC is a continuation of Morrison's Batman run so far. If Batman is seen as embodying Orion's essence, then the son killing the father at the end of FC resonates well with the numerous father/son relationships and replacement anxieties my special swingball companion has been exploring so far.

(In this light, Batman killing Darkseid has added significance. It reverses the ending of Kirby's New Gods in The Hunger Dogs, where Darkseid killed Orion with a single bullet.)

The Batman bits of Final Crisis are a fine capstone to the first part of Morrison's Batman run, but Final Crisis has a lot going on besides the climax to Batman's tale. All that toing and froing over various alternative lives of Bruce Wayne in those two issues don't really belong there. They emphatically do belong as part of the analysis of what makes Bruce Wayne tick.

05:59 / 20.04.09

Yes, and I think the few pages of Alfred's "voiceover" at the end are thematically fitting, as well - having just spent half a dozen issues building up Batman as being someone who even when he looks defeated has probably already won - the "no hiding place for evil" line is a great end to the book, to Morrison's run, and indeed to Bruce Wayne and Batman.

It just makes bugger-all sense if you haven't read Final Crisis and you're reading through the story for the first time.

06:24 / 20.04.09

I only got the complete Batman run after I'd finished Final Crisis, so I didn't have any problems with the jump to the final two issues. I didn't feel I'd missed much in terms of FC either when I read it without reference to what was going on in Batman.

Did the post-RIP issues come out before or after we saw Batman being kidnapped in FC? If the former, then the fantankourousness would have been justified.

But now they are in the collected editions that's all in the past. The only people who would be badly affected by the FC / Batman overlap might be those who are Batman completists but uninterested in FC.

Poor them.

06:40 / 20.04.09

Having read everything now from Batman 655 to the end of FC...

The Bruce Wayne of GM's Batman run deals with madmen, criminal gangs and international terorists and keeps a black casebook which helps him to fence off the cases his rational mind seems to reject - the aliens and demons etc.

However the Batman of FC is very best buds with a super-being from another planet and doesn't bat an eyelid when it comes to offing extra-terrestrial Deities with god-killing bullets.

What to make of this? A deliberate commentary on the Batman's double life during Denny "Batman doesn't have access to a transporter" O'Neill's tenure as editor? Is there more to it?

12:07 / 20.04.09

Superman isn't an unexplainable mystery alien, so he wouldn't go in the Casebook. In the same way that a flying saucer is only a UFO so long as you don't know the details.

The "Don't tell Gordon about my SciFi Closet" seems to be more a matter of politeness to a subset of his allies (metatextually, some of his readers) who are blatantly uncomfortable with those aspects of his life. Only the unexplained or suspect stuff goes in the BC.

04:24 / 21.04.09

Thanks.

Batman stories that don't reference the JLA or Supes (like all but the last two issues of his run) are probably the rule rather than the exception, but by tying FC so explicitly into his story, Morrison seems to be making this split jarringly noteworthy...

So, the Black Casebook is perhaps for the stuff that Bats believes might be imaginary, the symptoms of the breakdown of his brilliant mind?

08:30 / 21.04.09

Chew On Fat, the monthly issues all came out in good time and the relevant order - the Batman issues came out after we'd seen him get captured in Final Crisis, so it all made sense, providing you were reading both series (a lot of people weren't, going by the messageboards, but it got explained quickly enough to them).

It's the decision to collect the Final Crisis issues in a Batman trade, with no mention of Final Crisis whatsoever in the trade itself, that has me scratching my head a little.

Given the Borders/Waterstones/Ottakers nature of where trades presumably sell the most, and that buyers of RIP are not necessarily going to pick up Final Crisis, I find it a little odd.

alex supertramp

23:52 / 22.04.09

Do you think Batman has a White Casebook, for super-crime that is completely sane? Or does he just put all of his exploits in the Black Casebook. Maybe he has a completely color coated system of casebooks.

06:11 / 23.04.09

Yes, its hard to know when something stupid written by a comics creator can be taken as charming, thought-provoking and perhaps requiring explanation, and when it is just something stupid - period.

21:15 / 23.04.09

Oh, I want to know what;s in the Blue Casebook. Max Miller related crimes?

21:27 / 23.04.09

That's my favourite joke this year so far!

01:46 / 24.04.09

I want to know what's in Batman's Black Cookbook.

19:54 / 24.04.09

Unless I've read the solicitations wrong, I think the Final Crisis book has the main series, and the other volume, The Final Crisis Companion, has the Superman Beyond issues, Submit, Resist and the Tomasi Requiem thingy.

And I agree, Last Rites should be in Final Crisis, not Batman. But let's face it, anyone who cares has all the issues, anyway.

Personally, I'd prefer all the Morrison-penned issues to be bound in the order he wanted them read, as detailed upthread somewhere. When I summon the strength to reread, that's how I'll do it.

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