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Torchwood- Season One Discussion (As It Happens) SPOILERS

 
  

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:21 / 07.11.06
if "messy" is a compliment (and "silly" also seems to be a positive) then you like different kinds of TV drama to me

Weeell, kind of... but not quite. I like serious, well-crafted stuff. I also like the silly fun stuff. It's just that I was never expecting the former from Torchwood, really. If I had been, then maybe, like you, I'd be quite disappointed. So I think it's got a lot to do with what we want from different entertainment products, really. Maybe there's a thread in that.

I mean, I loved, say, Twin Peaks. And I love Bagpuss. But if I started watching a Bagpuss DVD and got Twin Peaks instead, I'd be maybe a little confused.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:06 / 07.11.06
I stopped reading this thread a week ago because I felt people were being a little mean towards the show and, while that didn't bother me, it was making me feel the show was worse than it was. Then I watched this week's episode and realised, no people weren't being mean, Torchwood is shit.

I mean, people appear to not be censured in any way for breaking the rules, half of Cardiff seems to know they are there (and they've done everything short of a leaflet campaign to alert the other half) and frankly Ianto should have been kneecapped at the very least for his behaviour.

Aah, Ianto. Giving him his first decent show such as this was a mistake. At the very least he needed more exposure in the previous episodes so that we can make an emotional connection with his difficulty, as it is the viewers know more than the characters and are left waiting impatiently for the cyber-slaughter to begin. And girlfriend-shmirlfriend, when Ianto can't bring himself to kill a woman who has killed one guy, killed Captain Jack, throttled him, fought their pet Pterodactyl, transplanted her brain into another body and is still talking about upgrading Ianto has crossed the line from lovelorn fool to stupid arse.

If some indication was given that Torchwood are recognised as being slightly incompetent and useless then this perhaps wouldn't matter so much, but they aren't. RTD had plenty of time to plan this show. Why did he not make it clear that after the dodgy dealings of the team in the pilot, there shouldn't be any incidents where the team are incompetent or break the rules? The cumulative effect is to make the viewer think that Torchwood aren't the sharpest tools in the box which is fatal for the long term life of this show.
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
20:17 / 07.11.06
I guess it's still possible that something really bizarre will happen. Supposing they'd all been Cybered last episode and spent the rest of the series subverting Cardiff, that'd be cool. Or, ah, er... it's that continuity thing again; have they pilfered the Death Star's main armament yet? That'd make a pretty cool episode:

Jack: "If you strike me down, Cyberman, I will become more alive than you can possibly imagine..."
 
 
gridley
20:41 / 07.11.06
It strikes me that this episode could have been considerably improved by establishing in an earlier episode that Ianto lost a loved one in the earlier Cyberman battle. It could have just been a brief moment of him talking to Gwen, showing a bit of emotion, and then moving on. Maybe later in that ep, showed him secretively going into the machine-filled room and we just hear him saying hello to her.
 
 
Mouse
21:07 / 07.11.06
Not to mention that the BBC's bollocks attitude to production values haven't come along much. Tosh apparently won't be able to budge a door that "weighs a ton" but cyberbint makes it wobble just by waving her arm through the window? Thanks BBC.

I keep asking myself why I watch this piffle. For the first few episodes it was because it was just some harmless fun, but now it's becoming tedious. Before this episode aired I was going to make some flippant remark about there seemingly being some contractural need for two kisses in each episode, one of which must not be straight, and lo and behold here we go again!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:21 / 07.11.06
a door that "weight a ton"

According to Owen. Who knows fuck all. Surely it's logical that the door would be well-greased and easy to move from one side to the other if not locked, otherwise you're spending a shitload on power that you really don't need to.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:41 / 07.11.06
I can't believe I'm trying to justify this shit in a show that is basically Gerry Anderson with less string.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:33 / 08.11.06
there seemingly being some contractural need for two kisses in each episode, one of which must not be straight,

I actually remember that being specified (in interview) as a requirement for every character, if not every episode.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:35 / 08.11.06
Rock!
 
 
Whisky Priestess
09:42 / 08.11.06
So Tosh is lagging behind somewhat, then?

I have come to the decision that a lot of the fun in Torchwood for me is exactly the nitpicking, retconning, speculation and harrumphing that I indulge in right after every episode. If it were perfect I would like it less; however, you won't catch me complaining if they decide to up their game character and plot-wise.

Do you think there will be a BBC competition like the monster one with Dr Who where viewers are invited to send in their own episode? And the winner gets made? And the writer is hired to replace ... well, everyone on the current team?

I do hope so.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:17 / 08.11.06
Tosh apparently won't be able to budge a door that "weighs a ton" but cyberbint makes it wobble just by waving her arm through the window? Thanks BBC.

Yes, clearly the terrifying killer cyborg should not be any stronger than the human techy. Have you written the BBC a letter of complaint? I think you should.
 
 
Mouse
21:55 / 08.11.06
That's hardly my point. My point is more along the lines of:

If a cyberman/woman can make the door wobble just by blindly flailing through the window, what good did locking the door do?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:00 / 08.11.06
I didn't so much as notice a wobble. I did think that Tosh had made the deadly (and fairly common) mistake of leaning back against a door with glass-covered holes in it.

The actual logistics make sense to me - Liza's cyborgification is basically fucked - she is not able to work out how to upgrade people with the tools at her disposal. She doesn't have a plan B - she's just going to keep feeding people into the upgrade machine. Maybe it will work, maybe she'll end up with an army of cybermen, more likely she'll end up with a pile of bodies. Meanwhile, her own body is clearly a failure as a cyberman. She drains her beam weapon shooting at Jack, and then her delectricity killing Jack. The brain-swap is kind of mad, but it's also pathetic - she's removed her only advantage and made herself utterly vulnerable in the pursuit or her utterly mad shit programming error idea of love. And then she gets shot, and Ianto doesn't even get to do it.

Hmmm. I'm still looking for a killer punch on this one, mind.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
14:21 / 09.11.06
Have to say that I found the bit when the pizza girl reappears all Frankensteined quite the best part of the episode. Didn't see it coming and really liked it - it almost looked as though Ianto might have a real choice to make until she said "we could be upgraded ... together".
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:32 / 09.11.06
Would have been improved by Jay-Z and B kickin in on the soundtrack at that point, uh.

Upgrade you
I can (up), can I (up), let me
Upgrade you (partner let me upgrade you)

[Jay-Z:]
(Uh HOV, Uh, HOV, uh huh huh!)
I B the d-boy who infiltrated all the corporate dudes
They call shots, I call audibles
Jacob the jeweler, baubles, Lauraine Schwartz sorta dude
It's big balling baby when I'm courting you
I'm talking spy bags and fly pads and rooms at the Bloomberg
And rumors you on the verge of a new merge


Uh.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:22 / 09.11.06
Looking forward to next Sunday when Tosh is finally allowed to have a personality too...
 
 
sleazenation
20:43 / 09.11.06
Hmmm, not sure that they've really given Ianto much in the way of a convincing character tho.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:13 / 09.11.06
Yeah .. a lot of "Oscar moment" emoting - snot dripping, wibbly chin, inarticulate weeping and yelling, but not much actual, y'know, acting.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
22:33 / 09.11.06
Agreed with a lot of the comments about blatant plot holes and implausibility - still, i'm actually liking Torchwood a lot better than post-reboot Doctor Who... maybe it's because a) i'm really, really not feeling the one-shot episodes of Nu Skool Who because the essence of Who for me was the 4 and 6 parters with lots of silly supporting-character filler and eccentrically dragged-out chase scenes, whereas Torchwood, and b) neither Eccleston nor Tennant has really felt like the Doctor to me, whereas Torchwood, being as it is a new show with a lead character with not very much backstory, has neither of those "traditions" to live up to...

One theory i read on another board is that all the "alien" stuff in Torchwood so far (before the Cyberwoman episode, of course) has been stuff that could just as easily exist in the demon/magick-based Buffy/Angel universe, and therefore is to some degree recycling of RTD's scripts for that "Young Giles/Ripper" project...

Re last episode, agreed that the lack of alien weapons capable of dealing with a half-upgraded Cyber(wo)man was just fucking silly, as well as the idea that a) something which had a lot of exposed bare, vulnerable human flesh could be effectively bulletproof and b) that said "bulletproof" being could nevertheless be taken down easily by a pterodactyl (which, while an impressive looking beastie, in reality probably wouldn't win a fight against, say, a tiger or a bear)...

I think it would have been superior dramatically if a) Jack had actually killed Ianto, b) Ianto had killed himself, or c) Ianto had left in such a manner as to make it clear he was not only leaving Torchwood permanently, but now its sworn enemy (maybe had him grab a piece of alien technology which would allow him to escape somewhere undetectable - or, ooh, even a piece of Cyberman technology he had had stowed away along with Lisa, to teleport himself to Mondas, and then he could basically be a traitor/collaborationist villain along the lines of Baltar from the original Battlestar Galactica) (of course, the latter may yet happen)...

Still, at least it was better than that hideously sexist Species-meets-Fallen derivative trash of a "plot" in episode 2... that episode nearly put me off the whole series, but episodes 3 and 4 thankfully went some way towards offsetting 2's subconscious bigotry (tho in 3, to be honest, i'd have preferred it a lot if either Owen or Gwen had just killed the rapist and had no regrets about it - as it is, 2 followed by 3 seemed to give a very strong "one law for the humans, another for every other sentient species" message, which seems very at odds with the politics/ethics of all the classic Who series - and the Jack/Gwen gun-porn was just pathetic - tho i suppose there's a case for it being seen as intentionally showing Jack to be a creepy, sleazy, sexual-harassment-boss bastard...

Next episode, from the trailer, looks to be a bit full of the unconvincingly cheesy CGI that has IMO marred the post-relaunch Who series - so far, i had been fairly impressed with Torchwood's reliance on relatively understated and "real"-looking effects... oh well, will have to see if it rises above it...

personal favourite fanwank theory: JAKC IS TEH MASTER!!!1!!111! LOL WTF!!!
 
 
Whisky Priestess
08:18 / 10.11.06
OK, Jack's immortality ... I have a theory (and I think you're going to like the punchline):

Jack appears to be immortal because he has a vast amoount of life force flowing through him, bestowed upon him by the Tardis? Rose? (dunno, didn't see that ep).

Now, this life force could be infinite, or nearly infinite - for practical purposes right now it doesn't matter, because Jack can handle anything that's thrown at him. However, it may become a plot point in the future as Torchwood expands (please God make it happen) beyond Cardiff - we don't know how he'd cope if, for example, he was chucked into a black hole. Anyway.

This life force/energy of Jack's is at least partly sex-flavoured (hence his using it to feed the orgasm-hungry alien in Ep 2), and temporarily transferable to others: he seems to be able to "recharge" people who are unconscious or near death (e.g. Ianto).

In conclusion:
Captain Jack Harkness is literally too sexy to die.

I thankew.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:34 / 10.11.06
Well, Torchwood: Cardiff is a bit crap, as I've said before the Cybermen as a race were always crap, so I can see them being evenly matched.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:53 / 10.11.06
I'm still intrigued by Torchwood ... Two, was it? The lone bloke up in Scotland?

I think this has to come back in. Preferably involving the uninhibited use of Peter Capaldi.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:58 / 10.11.06
Isn’t Jack immortal because Rose bought him back to life with the TardisWolfPower and that’s about all we’re going to be told?

Didn’t get the whole Ianto worship going on here, to be honest – handsome man, yes, but the character was so underwritten that everyone seemed to be projecting their hopes onto the blank space. Another in a line of characters that fellow ‘lithers love but who leave me cold, I guess (Quentin Quire and Klarion being other examples). Anyway, he didn’t get much to do, but that seems to be the way for everyone except Jack and Gwen.

Speaking of whom, if they’re going to have an affair, consider me as uninspired by that as a plot prospect as I was in the final Six Feet Under series of a dalliance between Nate and … er, Quaker-lady whose name escapes me.

Was it just my imagination, or did one of the metal support bits on the Cyberbaddie’s stomach buckle like plastic when Ianto and the scientist-chap were helping her get up after being revived?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:09 / 10.11.06
I think this has to come back in. Preferably involving the uninhibited use of Peter Capaldi.

Oh. Hell. Yes.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:32 / 10.11.06
Owen and Gwen doing the oh-so-very nasty I find about as sexy as the idea of Owen and anyone in a sex situation, i.e. not at all.

What the fuck is RTD on? I suppose you could forgive a straight man for not realising that another bloke had all the looks and charisma of a used Kleenex, but honestly ... does he not have eyes?

Just because they're only one letter apart doesn't mean Gwen and Owen should get together.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:59 / 10.11.06
Although it does provide possibilities for man-on-man love between Captain Jack and the stern but dashing Captain Jock (Peter Capaldi).
 
 
Ex
14:31 / 10.11.06
Just because they're only one letter apart doesn't mean Gwen and Owen should get together.

Yes. That's not desire, it's dyslexia, as I remind the Arwen/Eowyn slashfans regularly.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
20:08 / 10.11.06
Jubilee Pizza is, for those interested, a continuity reference AND a fan nod at the same time.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
20:18 / 10.11.06
The post-brain-swap pizza girl's lines should have been dubbed with the actress playing Lisa's voice IMO. (slightly out of synch - now that would have been creepy...) Or at least she should have tried to speak with a London rather than a Welsh accent.
 
 
Lama glama
21:14 / 10.11.06
John Barrowman is on Jonathan Ross tonight, who might be interested in hearing what he has to say.

Smugness deflector shield, engage.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
21:29 / 10.11.06
I'm not sure about the voice dubbing. That ruined the Red Dwarf episode with the premise.

Logically the body produces the voice, so it shouldn't change.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
21:31 / 10.11.06
Well, finally torrented the newest episode.

Guess that blows my 'Ianto gets no screen time outside work because he is a robot' theory.
 
 
Evil Scientist
22:42 / 10.11.06
Guess that blows my 'Ianto gets no screen time outside work because he is a robot' theory.

He's just dating one.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
22:49 / 10.11.06
Logically the body produces the voice, so it shouldn't change.

Yeah, but accent, vocal mannerisms, etc. She should have at least done a decent impression of the way the other actress spoke (to contrast with how she sounded earlier)...
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
21:58 / 11.11.06
After having a little Torch-athon and seeing Captain Jack Harkness in action, I have come to the conclusion that Torchwood Three would fare better under the leadership of Captain Underpants, Captain Trips and/or the Captain and Tennille.

Not much to add to the above litany of flagrant stupidities. Evil Scientist mentioned a page ago that there's something interesting in Jack being a conman and perhaps having just infiltrated the organization. Pushing that further, I think even if he is there legitimately, having an arc where the team realize that Jack Harkness is, well, dumb as a stump. And needs to be replaced with somebody more competent, like say the brainless shell of the pizza girl or the agoraphobic Welshman.

I do, however, like the fact that the Cybermen have a little CyberVictoria's Cybersecret boutique to outfit all their victims with chrome-coloured bikinis to lift and accent their tight little Cyberbuns before beginning the conversion process. Cyberass-shots: pure class.

Gaaaah.
 
  

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