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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Torchwood- Season One Discussion (As It Happens) SPOILERS

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22:05 / 25.10.06

F1TT or FITT 1 surely...

miss wonderstarr

22:10 / 25.10.06

Were we expecting this to be at all plausible? And if so, why?

Depends what you mean by plausible, I suppose. I don't find alien sex fiends in Cardiff plausible, in that I don't believe they're real, but that doesn't stop me expecting an SF show to follow some internal logic (such as a top-secret-ops not declaring its name to street police officers; such as an elite security agency not ignoring the obvious places get better quality CCTV and fingerprints; such as that top-secret agency inviting someone they've met once to be their fourth member).

I was expecting the show to be plausible in that it would make me accept the terms of its story-world. If that world is meant to be an inconsistent, fun fantasy where it's asking too much to make the above objections, then maybe I'm the one who missed a memo.

Mon Oncle Ignatius

22:59 / 25.10.06

[threadrot]

I don't find alien sex fiends in Cardiff plausible,

Plausible? Of course it is... their record label is based in Bridgend...

[/threadrot]

Ahem.

No, you're actually quite right about the show sticking to its own internal logic - fantasy is supposed to be about willing suspension of disbelief after all, not just accepting anything which is passed off with "oh, I don't know why it happens... it just does" - which latter does seem to be the main way of diverting attention for key questions such as why Captain Jack can't die.

Again, thinking of CSI comparisons, that series is almost completely unbelievable when you watch it and examine anything about any individual story or the technical details of forensic science (the amount of time it takes to get a DNA test or fingerprint match, getting prints off almost any surface, etc, etc) - but it generally works because of the tightly-controlled sense of being set within a TV universe in which these things are possible. I hope Torchwood can show itself to be capable of addressing these issues of story-plausibility (there have certainly been throwaway nods to the plot holes within the stories themselves as mentioned before) as otherwise it's just likely to get messy.

10:34 / 26.10.06

After seeing episodes 1 and 2, it hasn't really got me that much. I was hoping it'd be a bit better, but will probably give it anoter few episodes before I decide to carry on watching it or leave it. I thought it was a bit naff to find that a) it's sometype of spin-off from Doctor Who (which I really haven't liked since I was a young kid.) and b) that the lead male was American. Nothing against Americans at all, but it would've been good to see a Brit taking that role, seeing as it could possibly be the first decent sci-fi to come from this country in ages, and it'd make the program feel more real for me, being English myself. When he first spoke and I heard the accent I kind of frowned and wondered why one of our own actors couldn't do it. It would've helped to seperate it a bit more from I don't know how many American sci-fi programs aswell. (which was probably the main reason I didn't like him, but maybe he'l grow on me.)

Whining aside though, I'll not judge it until a few more episodes have passed. The main plus for me personally would probably be the character Gwen and the actress that plays her, they were both cool.

Jack The Bodiless

10:46 / 26.10.06

The first rule of any narrative is suspension of disbelief, and that's a two way street. While gaping plot holes are a problem for a lot of people, the fact is there's no narrative - fictional or otherwise - anywhere that can't be read to have holes in it. Jack's standing on the roof of a tall building staring out at the city might take you out of the show, but it's a stylistic thing. No one had any problem with it when it was Angel, or Batman. I think for some reason the fact that it's Cardiff makes us Brits go a bit *rolleyes* - too close to home, too familiar. London's got enough mystification, history and size that this doesn't happen. I just think people should bear in mind that a problem with suspension of disbelief is very often the reader's fault, and not necessarily the narrative's fault.

What Fly calls 'salvages' and probably a lot of others might call astonishingly blatant steals from other shows annoyed the hell out of me on a creative level (apparently there's no other way for them to justify Torchwood 3's base being Cardiff than the fact that it's got a sci-fi version of a Hellmouth on it ; the aforementioned Jack/Angel rooftop posing and the T3/Angel Investigations similarities ; the direct steal from Ultraviolet with the device of 'the copper investigating the top-secret paranormal affairs agency ending up being offered a place with them while questioning the way they work' being identical so far to Mike's arc in Ultraviolet ; the second episode being a shameless rip off of Angel Season 1's second episode with more actual sex and less subtext and edginess ; there are more but I'm ranting). However, none of the above griping about the general lack of creativity involved stopped me actually enjoying the show. I love far moer of it than I disliked - yeah, I'd prefer it to be shot and lit differently too, but honestly, why quibble over such tiny details when it's so much fun?

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

13:10 / 26.10.06

Watched the first episode last night and here's my two cents.

Stylistically, it's not too bad. It manages to make Cardiff look sexy--and no offence to the Welsh, it's just that you don't equate Cardiff and sexy in the same sentence--and exciting. In fact, in some of those shots, it makes Cardiff look downright hyper-modern.

Captain Jack Harkness as the lead. Well, I like John Barrowman even if he was a bit hammy and over the top at times. I think it's a bit silly to constantly introduce yourself with your full name and title at every given moment. (I can just imagine: "All right we go, one gin & tonic..." "That would be for me: Captain Jack Harkness.") True, the shot of him standing majestically on top of the building was nothing more than a homage (I'll be kinder than Flyboy) to the many times David "Look at my broody forehead" Boreanaz did it on various L.A. rooftops. Still, he's got sex appeal, a rather laissez-faire attitude to most things, and a chance to make this show quite fun. (By the way, still not buying that it's the Doctor's doing he's immortal. It might be by extension of TARDIS, but it was Rose's doing. She undid everything.)

That bit with Gwen talking to the monster at the end of the hallway. Either they're used to monsters or people in masks going round in Cardiff or her eyesight is complete shit. No one would have acted that calmly when faced with something like that. (I know, I know, not watching this for reason, I get it.)

I like the Torchwood team, was still surprised by Susie's suicide at the end, even though I'd already read about it here on the board.

I really like the invisible lift. I think the Doctor's hand bubbling away in a vat of liquid--I called it!--was terribly silly.

Overall, it's a pretty good show. I like the possibility of it, I like the feel of it, and the cast seems pretty swell as well.

Pretty much all I can think of at the moment. Maybe when the tea kicks in I'll have something else.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:17 / 26.10.06

Yeah - I know that utter cluelessness is a feature of the genre, but I was screaming "do you people have cataracts?" at the screen as she walked towards the weevil.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

13:19 / 26.10.06

Thank you, Haus. I kept saying, "You're kidding, right? Something very obviously not a guy in a mask and she's gonna keep on walking, isn't she? She is, isn't she!?!?!"

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:01 / 26.10.06

OK, that bit didn't ring true with me. Maybe if the hallway had been more dimly-lit. Maybe.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

14:02 / 26.10.06

For about 10 seconds while she was talking to the monster I was thinking "when is she going to pull a gun?" I then remembered that this was in the UK, and she didn't have a gun.

I felt the same way in the bar fight scene though. I suppose I am just used to cops with guns.

I enjoyed the first episode, haven't watched the second yet. I really liked the TW people trying to ignore Gwen while she walked through carrying pizza. "Who orders pizza as Torchwood?" had me chuckling.

I understand that they are a different Torchwood then the one we had seen previously, but could they maybe have a bit more polish in their HQ? The cluttery office space belonging to people who investigate strange mysteries has bothered me since X-Files.

14:14 / 26.10.06

I may be channelling vague memories of that show Darkplace (which I've never actually seen except for adverts), but I kind of want the theme tune for the show to be a quick, sinister chant of "Torchwood! Torchwood!" over and over again.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

14:31 / 26.10.06

Again, realising that logic is not the point, what strikes me as highly implausible is the post-Christmas Invasion-Doomsday world they live in. That whole bit in the bar with Jack and Gwen; he's going on about what has happened and she says her boyfriend blames it on drugs in the water (first of all, how about she make her own informed decision regarding those incidents instead of leaving it to her lunkhead boyfriend?).

If we're to believe that these things have happened, wouldn't they have had more of an impact?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:40 / 26.10.06

I admit that's a bit weird, but don't really see any way round it. Other than not having Jack mention it at all. Which would probably have worked better, true.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

15:03 / 26.10.06

Yeah, I guess, but it was just odd.

I didn't expect any overt signs that the mankind has learned they weren't alone, but I suppose I just wanted something.

18:19 / 26.10.06

I'm going to leave it a bit before I say much on this, but a few inconsequential things....

that the lead male was American. Nothing against Americans at all, but it would've been good to see a Brit taking that role,

Technically, Barrowman is Glaswegian. Lived here till he was about 8 iirc. Still, for all intents and purposes......

Also, the standing on buldings thing. I'm pretty sure that it's mainly a stylistic thing, but it's also possible that he could be looking for something....

Yeah. Really enjoyed it. Stood up in places, fell down in others. Nothing that makes me want to call it either side of the line yet though. I suspect I'll be watching it and enjoying it for a while to come. If Who's anything to go by, it'll be a wee bit yet till the whole thing starts to knit together.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

18:35 / 26.10.06

One "American" amongst a cast of Welsh. I've got no problems with it.

That guy playing Ianto Jones is quite cute, though.

It's taking forever to download "Day One."

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

18:42 / 26.10.06

I wonder if Jack thinks it will be easier to spot the TARDIS from on high?

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

18:56 / 26.10.06

I doubt it. If Torchwood has the tech they have, I'm sure something in the facility is monitoring for appearances of the Doctor and the TARDIS.

19:13 / 26.10.06

Found both of these really quite dull. As a result, I'm not sure that I'm able to contribute much more on the sunject. Although a big well done to RTD for managing to use Sci-Fi Rohypnol for laffs - having one of our heroic team be a comedy rapist is on the same kind of "not paying any attention to what you're writing" level as paving slab girlfriend.

The swearing in the first episode was awful. Do not write swearing unless you can write believable swearing for actors who have a natiral ability for it. Do not use up your entire fuck rations for the week in one three-line speech from one character. It was laughable. "Science fiction for adults" apparently equates to nothing more than the same old regular TV science fiction, only with the addition of too much boring sex and five naughty words per week.

Budget's already become an issue, I see - handy how the camera happens to switch away from the security cam footage just as the girl's about to get taken over by alien gas nympho. Maybe they should have saved some of the cash they frittered away on the helicopter budget.

Paleface/Suedey> Isn't the "too clean" thing a result of the digital filming process? It's like the difference between older UK TV shows that were filmed on, well, film and those that were filmed on video, no?

Kiltartan Cross

19:25 / 26.10.06

"do you people have cataracts?"

They do! They kept cutting to that shot of the fountain-wall or whatever it is outside the front of the Millenium Centre every five minutes...

"Just another couple of inches to the left and we're done!"

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

19:32 / 26.10.06

Those are some unattractive folks.

20:13 / 26.10.06

I think roof-standing is about more than stylistic tolerance, it's also about expectation. We know that Batman is the broody protector type who, crucially, does a lot of business on the rooftops of his city, the same is true of Angel. Jack, on the other hand, doesn't have the same kind of history - we need to learn a bit more about his current circumstances before we can easily buy this stuff. At this early stage it feels forced and tacked on.

20:27 / 26.10.06

You have to earn roof-standing basically.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

20:33 / 26.10.06

I really want to make some joke about Cardiff needing protecting so as to support the roof-standing, but I can't find it.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

20:36 / 26.10.06

Also it was funny cos there were literally no other rooves in the nearby vicinity, it's not like he's gonna swoop in and do anything other than stand there on this huge building looking like he's in a shoddily filmed Republica video from the 90's or something.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

21:15 / 26.10.06

Cardiff joke, I'm pretty sure.

21:50 / 26.10.06

The roof standing thing seemed to be too drawn out and shown from too many different angles, and was a bit over dramatic. Maybe they should've done that at night, or yeah, wait until he'd earned it. (but it'd still have been a worn out-cliche type thing.) Another thing with the American(-ish) guy that bugged me was that it makes me think that they only put him there to give it more cred, like having an American actor would make the whole thing cooler or something. Meh.

22:47 / 26.10.06

Um Fianna - have you seen the new Doctor Who? The 'American(ish) guy' was in it, playing the same character and was actually quite an engaging and impressive character played by an immensely talented actor... Quite a part from that, I have doubts that that American accents are a panecea in the current political climate...

05:00 / 27.10.06

Nope, have not seen the new Doctor Who, but it's cool to know that he came across as a good actor. Like I said, maybe he'll grow on me anyway. I basically meant that with popular sci-fi programs so often being American, I thought it was a kind of calculated move to make people accept it a little easier.

But then I remember that his story seemed to require him being an American anyway, (if the military guy who disappeared decades back was him.) so that probably explains it.

06:53 / 27.10.06

Yeah, the backstory of a military man in 1940s Britain is an allusion to the Dr Who story that first introduced Captain Jack - (season 1 episodes 9 and 10) there are actually quite a few allusions to the new Dr Who peppering Torchwood that will (hopefully) reward the curious...

But yeah - I found it difficult to believe that there had been no Jack Harknesses in the UK since 1941...

08:14 / 27.10.06

I finally watched this the other night, and it didn't draw me in. Which is a shame. It ticked a lot of boxes for me, but I just wasn't pulled in. I only half watched the second episode, but the pilot/first one seemed to have fun moments and good ideas, but it does seem to want it's cake and eat it - it wants to spend time introducing characters, but then only offers a short hand intro, which kind of irked, and made the reveal at the end a bit kind of flat I guess. I did like the way that Jack appeared on the lift/step and that the girl could see him to shoot, but, I don't know. Maybe it just needs a few more episodes to run into it - but it felt like we were expected to know everything because we're all Dr Who fans and have had it all explained before - which kind of hurt the characters for me.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:50 / 27.10.06

I think roof-standing is about more than stylistic tolerance, it's also about expectation. We know that Batman is the broody protector type who, crucially, does a lot of business on the rooftops of his city, the same is true of Angel. Jack, on the other hand, doesn't have the same kind of history - we need to learn a bit more about his current circumstances before we can easily buy this stuff.

So what was David Coverdale's excuse?

No, hang on... bad example... he didn't have one, did he?

10:44 / 27.10.06

But yeah - I found it difficult to believe that there had been no Jack Harknesses in the UK since 1941...

There seem to be 3 at the moment.

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:48 / 27.10.06

Hang on - Jack Harknesses or Captain Jack Harknesses? Although picking up Torchwood on that kind of credulity hole is probably going to be something of a hiding to nothing...

Whisky Priestess

10:52 / 27.10.06

But yeah - I found it difficult to believe that there had been no Jack Harknesses in the UK since 1941...

No Captain Jack Harknesses ...

Kali, I think at least some of the unattractive people have Down's Syndrome (although I could be wrong, it's not a great photo) and/or are blind.

Also, apparently Gwen has an affair with "someone at work", which is BLATANTLY going to be Ianto (unless RTD bisexualises her even more and it's Toshiko, but that would be too interesting). Which is good because he's been cruelly under-developed so far and clearly has a juicy back-story (as all love interests must). I'd quite like to see Jack struggling with the which-one-am-I-jealous-of dilemma as he watches their steamy romps on the CCTV, or whatever.

Hurry up Sunday! More Torchwood please!

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