BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Torchwood- Season One Discussion (As It Happens) SPOILERS

 
  

Page: (1)23456... 19

 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:05 / 22.10.06
"Contraceptives in the rain. I love this planet. Still, at least I won't get pregnant. Again."

I am so happy.
 
 
Spaniel
19:52 / 22.10.06
Well, I quite enjoyed that. Roll on episode 2.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:52 / 22.10.06
(End of Episode One)

Wow... That was fun. And for once Radio Times managed to help surprise everyone rather than give it all away...
 
 
sleazenation
19:57 / 22.10.06
First episode... hmmm a bit disappointed. I know first episodes are hard to do well, lots of introductions and stuff to fit in in addition to the main plot, but this still didn't quite do it for me - what was Capt Jack doing standing on the top of the building again?

I really want this to be good, so I'm hoping episode two is better...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
20:02 / 22.10.06
I'm with you Sleaze!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:06 / 22.10.06
Uh-oh, sex alien alert!

I disagree Sleaze. For me the unexpected ending, or unexpected to me, maybe other appearences on telly gave away that Suzie would go rogue, made up for the usual problems of exposition heavy first episodes. At least it was funny and exciting, unlike Robin Hood.
 
 
Spaniel
20:06 / 22.10.06
The standing on the building bit was hilariously unnecessary.

In fact I'm quite enjoying the juxtaposition of earthy welshness with sci-fi, it works to ground the show and adds a nice streak of humour.
 
 
Spaniel
20:07 / 22.10.06
There were some rather saggy storytelling decisions in evidence, though (the roof sequence being just one). Not that I care particularly.
 
 
sleazenation
20:27 / 22.10.06
Not so much CSI Cardiff as a Sci-fi 'two pints of lager'...

It's a pithy oneliner and probably sounds a bit harsh but I am surprised by how cheap it all looks, how superficial. Even the props look unconvincing... What is Torchwood shot on, because it doesn't look good.

On the plus side, I was surprized about the revelation that Captain Jack can't die, even when I worked out how it happened...
 
 
Spaniel
20:42 / 22.10.06
I think Dr Who suffers from the same insubstantiality, frankly. Again, not that I care (much).
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:55 / 22.10.06
When I'm more awake and have time I want to discuss Doctor Who/Torchwood and Buffy/Angel in terms of the kid/adult difference.
 
 
Lama glama
20:59 / 22.10.06
I was really surprised by Susie's suicide, especially considering that she's in the promotional images and stuff. The Captain Jack can't die revelation, I had already (stupidly) spoiled for myself, but the violence and abruptness that accompanied it still yielded an audible gasp from me. The characters are fairly two dimensional so far, excepting Gwen, but the preview for the next episode hints that it will be Owen heavy, so I suppose he'll get some sort of development there.

I thought that the first episode was great, with a lot of really neat little moments. Toshiko's delivery of the "pterodactyl" line was hilarious, as was their wind-up of Gwen as she delivered the pizza. Owen's becoming a fairly questionable character, what with that spray and his visit to their prisoner in the second episode. I suppose it's expected that Torchwood (the organisation, not the show) will attract some fairly questionable types, due to its cloak and dagger nature and I hope that the series forces the characters to examine their actions. I'm sure that's what is going to happen, with Gwen bringing the human touch to the organisation.

Now, to the technical side of things: The direction was alright, if a little ordinary and those crane scenes felt hammered in, likewise Captain Jack on the roof. The theme tune was okay, but not as memorable as the Who theme and I couldn't hear the end theme as the announcer spoke over it. The incidental music was as bombastic as I was expecting and had some nice cues- I couldn't help but grin when the Bad Wolf/Lonely God leitmotif played as Captain Jack cradled the Doctor's hand. The CG was a little rough in places (not New Earth rough, though), most noticeably as Jack ascended on the pavement with Gwen and again, when ascended just before he was shot. But, I'm not watching this for the CG and it really didn't bother me especially.

It's all very promising and I'll definitely continue watching.
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
21:02 / 22.10.06
I wasn't much taken. The whole "wey-hey, aphrodisiac dust" bit from the first episode was annoying, and the "orgasmic energy!!11!" stuff from the second was just plain rubbish. But hey. It didn't look too tacky to me (apart from the "oh my, that's an ordinary armour gauntlet with bits welded on, wooh" and the gratuitous sweeping sky vistas) and there's certainly potential if they get away from the alien sex fiend stuff; or, at least, if they'd just do it a little better. I dunno. I'm not sure that "Doctor Who for grown-ups" isn't a self-contradictory statement.

Still, ya never know. Next weekend?
 
 
The Strobe
21:14 / 22.10.06
So I was pleasantly surprised, if only because I was dreading that it was going to be rubbish. It's quite fun, though I find the humour is a little forced at times. The CGI is working out much better than Who, by and large, because it's being asked to do less.

I also think the mundanity of Torchwood - it's just a job that people do, you can't ask them all to be super-amazing likeable folks all the time - is captured nicely, though it feels knockabout at times.

The standing-on-rooves motif is irritating, because it seems to serve no purpose. Jack's just pushing the limits of his immortality to show off and look cool. Either that, or he's taking the pterodactyl out for a fly.

I also think, by and large, it's managed to pull of the "adult" part of its remit relatively well. I was always concerned that "Who for grown-ups" would be little more than Who with some gore and some swearing. In one sense, they've definitely gone down that line, but there's a degree of subtlety at times. (At others, though, it feels quite heavy-handed; the alien-that-feeds-on-sexual-energy seemed a bit fanfic at times. I mean, girl-on-girl action whilst the rest of the team watch?

But I think it works. It was engaging, not too stupid and never descended into boring-scfi-nonsense. I'll definitely keep watching. That said, it's still no Ultraviolet, which managed the modern-sci-fantasy-for-grownups with less CGI, less dodgy acting, and more moral ambiguity.

One query - what is it about John Barrowman? For me, half the time he's great, and half the time he's Reading The Script Intercapped So You Know What's Important. Which irks the living shit out of me.

Not that he cares, mind. He's too busy standing on top of a building.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:15 / 22.10.06
I was pleasantly surprised. Both episodes did seem to be a bit... sex-mad in an adolescent way, very much like a TV show that's just grown up into after-the-watershed and can show some knobbin', and shaggin', and all that shit and bollocks. [I keep imagining this post slipping into a Welsh accent.] True, Captain Jack's charismatic pansexuality gives it a bit of an unusual spin, but still it did feel a bit like a straight schoolboy's dream at times... women kissing gets everyone crowding round the monitor, even if they're extra-terrestrial special ops who know this kissing could lead to the murder of their newest colleague, and have surely seen more exciting things than women kissing before ~ sex in a toilet is presented as every het fella's dream, and such a fuckin' horny sight that the club manager has to have a good wank over it (rather than not want people having sex in his club... I don't know if anyone else has ever seen a women's toilet in a club totally deserted for that long at 3am, either... or that clean.) And not sure why the sex alien insisted on sex with men, either, if an orgasm was all it wanted.

Otherwise... you got the impression they'd spent loads of money on a crane, and by God they were going to use it; but I thought the effects were OK, and I liked Gwen's competence and obvious professional skills, rather than the naive newbie stuff you might expect from that role (distinguishing her usefully from Rose). There were some neat little fan one-liners too, like Jack's amnesiac drug featuring a touch of "retcon".

So, yeah... I was quite prepared to dislike it, as I spend enough time watching TV now as it is, and could do without being committed to another show; but I found it pretty likeable.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:16 / 22.10.06
Oh, jinx Paleface.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:18 / 22.10.06
He's standing on the roof because Capt Jack stands on roofs. Hello? That's the way it IS.
 
 
Spaniel
21:25 / 22.10.06
Apparently.
 
 
sleazenation
21:28 / 22.10.06
I feel that Dr Who is more rushed that being insubstantial. (45 min never quite seems enough time for a completely satisfying story there). That may just be me or ir may be the effect of the show's emense history, fleshing stuff out in the background.

I dunno - Compare episode one of Torchwood to episode one of Ultraviolet...

I'm left with the impression that Torchwood isn't actually intended to be 'adult' at all, but adolescent - in order to fit into BBC3's remit to be the Beeb's youth-orientated
channel.


On the surprise front - when I saw the Torchwood traitor with a gun I figured it was highly possible that she was boing to blow her own brains out (I figured she's go for a different angle tho...)

Other stuff -

Anyone else notice the DS9 cog-wheel airlock entrace to its HQ.

London was Torchwood one - so I guess it was meant to be the same organization with all of the same ideology...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:28 / 22.10.06
The website's quite interesting. I don't know if it's part of an online fictional universe as extensive as Doctor Who's, but still seems fairly complex, with quite a lot of information.

 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:32 / 22.10.06
I'm not really convinced by the idea that normal citizens have witnessed the Christmas Invasion and the war between Daleks and Cybermen, but believe it's some kind of mass hallucination, and that Earth has never had any alien contact.

Also, not quite sure how if Torchwood is top-secret-ops, its members say "Torchwood" to police constables to get access to nightclubs; or why they invite someone they don't know to become their fourth member, with no training or testing, just because someone's killed herself and there's suddenly a vacancy.
 
 
sleazenation
21:39 / 22.10.06
I also think the mundanity of Torchwood - it's just a job that people do, you can't ask them all to be super-amazing likeable folks all the time - is captured nicely, though it feels knockabout at times.

Now this actually strikes a chord with me - this could well be what they were aiming at - the This Life vibe - its a show for slightly-bored first jobbers a significant chunk of BBC Three's core audience. It's the mundanity of a brightly lit corporate offices and franchise pubs and clubs rather than the dank, poorly lit mundanity of the gutter. This show is intended to be at least slightly aspirational...
 
 
Spaniel
21:42 / 22.10.06
Sorry, up above I should have written "superficiality" instead of "insubstantiality". I was referencing the FX, in case it was unclear.

I enjoyed the show, but watched it with no expectations*. I definitely don't think it's genius telly, but I will tune in next week for another bout of deeply untaxing Sunday night fun.


*I like, but don't have much invested in, the Whoverse.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:02 / 22.10.06
Davies apparently denies describing the programme as "The X-Files meets This Life."
 
 
sleazenation
22:07 / 22.10.06
But I do believe He said something about how adolescent it was to revel in sex and gore at the first opportunity to do so...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:10 / 22.10.06
Torchwood Hub contains invaluable clues to this week's episode:

Sambagirl wrote:
>>well i'm sending another email to the Pirates people!!! don't you just
>> love me?

i still can't get over Orlandos last scene, that was sooo sad, all my friends reckon Pirates is gay, so i had a little talk with them the bums lol PIRATES RULES!!! once again, the acting was superb!!! i love Orlando, but i'm not like all those girls who go " omg Orlando is sooo hot, i wanna marry him!!!"
 
 
Tom Coates
23:08 / 22.10.06
I thought the second episode was considerably more entertaining than the first, although sure as people said, it was all a bit 'for mature readers' in that very early vertigo kind of way (oh we can talk about sex? let's do that then!).

Having said that, it did set things up fairly nicely. I'll be watching this one for a few more weeks. I can't help thinking that it would be better with US production standards, but I bloody love the UK comfort with talking about gay people and play around sex in this way. Seems like the Americans would be way more puritanical.
 
 
■
00:10 / 23.10.06
D'oh! I'm rather enjoying being at the same page as everyone else now. OK, so who noticed the Jack-wants-be-Doctor-Chris: "Tell me what it means to be human!...Brilliant!" That's why Gwen is there and the hand is so important. He thinks he could be as good as the Doctor (he already has immortality) but doesn't connect with humans and wants to know what makes them tick. Somewhere in the mix there is both a cure and a purpose.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
01:33 / 23.10.06
Well, I thought it was fucking fantastic - really exceeded even my relatively high expectations. Kvetching about the budget seems so ungenerous to me. But anyway, that's Barbelith, if I hadn't learnt to live with people picking holes in really great telly I'd have left ages ago.

Torchwood steals - sorry, salvages - flotsam and jetsam from other shows, but it knows what to steal: the trick Spooks pulled off whereby a plot twist relies on misleading publicity about who's a regular, the brooding immortal hero and aerial shots of the city from Angel (although Boreanz was never anywhere near as charismatic as Barrowman), and a whole heap of stuff from Ultraviolet (but that's okay, in fact that's more than okay, given how short a run Ultraviolet had and how good it was), and from various sweary, rainy comic books of the last 8 years or so written by bad-tempered Englishmen (but that's okay too, 'cos so far Torchwood is doing that stuff better).

Loads of great potential plot threads, not done too heavy-handedly at all but ripe for exploration: what happened to Torchwood 4, what would the Weevils say if they could communicate... And of course, lots of questions about Captain Jack. For me the most interesting one is "how long has he been working for Torchwood?" - he talks as if the Sycorax invasion and the Cybermen/Dalek battle were recent, but also as if he's been working there for a while. So did he just keep finding out too late that the Doctor had stopped by London on those occasions, or is his relationship with the Doc more complicated than that now - what level of resentment is there? To what extent is his agenda different to the agenda of Torchwood 1 as it's been presented to us, and to what extent does he see that as different to the Doctor's agenda? He can cradle the hand, but could he be face to face if Jack was the guy who pressed the button of the big laser gun that dusted the Sycorax? I think it's implied - and I thought this was done quite subtly - that Jack has hardened again in the time since we last saw him, retreated a little back into a version of that Time Conman pose - and Gwen is starting to bring him out of that by reminding him of the Doctor and Rose. This is what he has to go through before he's ready to see the Doctor again. And let's hope it takes a while, or that when he does see him he's decided that he still has to stay, because frankly this is already shaping up to be a better show.

Another thing: is every member of Torchwood 3 other than Jack in denial about their sexuality? Gwen's over-relieved "Oh yes, the super-pheromones in the atmosphere, that explains it." Owen's ever-so-slightly sneery comment that he knows Jack is gay (but don't ask me what I get up to on my nights off "if it makes it easier"). Ianto's over-protesting "I don't care" about somebody else's sexuality. Toshiko is the exception, I guess - but she's not giving anything away, is she?

Only real concern: let's not have any more level of attempted "social commentary" than we had in the second episode, eh? According to Torchwood Declassified, the Goldfrapp bit - sex is everywhere in the modern Western world, do you see? - was RTD's favourite bit. That's a bad sign, but since so much of the rest of it was great, I'm not overly worried.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:52 / 23.10.06
I like the fact the first mouth-on-mouth action was boy-boy and while, for the purposes of us watching, it was a joke, it was done within the story 'straight' (as it were).

I also hope that RTD lied about there being no crossovers with Doctor Who, because I'd hate to think there would be no chance of that climactic conversation between Captain Jack and Doctor Who one day.

It did feel a bit like the New Adventures, suddenly Doctor Who stories have sex and Ace saying "fuck!" but I won't hear anything said against Ianto. He's my new hero.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:47 / 23.10.06
Another thing: is every member of Torchwood 3 other than Jack in denial about their sexuality? Gwen's over-relieved "Oh yes, the super-pheromones in the atmosphere, that explains it."

I thought the gay man turning Carys down in the sperm donor clinic indicated that Gwen must be attracted to women to some extent ~ the alien aphrodisiac wouldn't overcome someone's "inherent" sexuality and could only work with what was already there (which runs slightly counter to RTD's idea that the show would undermine sexual categories: "I want to knock down the barriers so we can't define which of the characters is gay. We need to start mixing things up, rather than thinking, 'This is a gay character and he'll only ever go off with men")

But then... every room in the clinic contained a mound of dust, so maybe the man who claimed to be gay was also susceptible to Carys.

With regard to the continuity between Doctor Who and the present, Barrowman explained: "A lot of the things that have happened with Doctor Who [in the second series], the Torchwood team have been responsible for fixing or annihilating after the Doctor does his bit. And the Doctor is saying, at the moment, like “Who the hell are these Torchwood people?” because our paths haven't crossed again, and I am frantically trying to find him. I'm trying to find the Doctor. Because there is something that the viewing public won't know yet, there's something about Jack that nobody knows. And he needs the Doctor."
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
06:49 / 23.10.06
Loads of great potential plot threads, not done too heavy-handedly at all but ripe for exploration: what happened to Torchwood 4

God help us, it was a Babylon 5 joke.

I'm still recovering from the bastards killing Susie Costello. Once the pain has receded, I'll feel largely positive.
 
 
The Strobe
08:09 / 23.10.06
"I want to knock down the barriers so we can't define which of the characters is gay. We need to start mixing things up, rather than thinking, 'This is a gay character and he'll only ever go off with men"

cf with

Owen's ever-so-slightly sneery comment that he knows Jack is gay

Well, Owen says that "we know he's gay", and Jack simply says "oh, you humans and your labels". Jack isn't gay, but I definitely think he'd fit into queer. Or "other", or whatever you want to say. I mean, he's almost certainly done the nasty with things that aren't human, and that's a sort-of complex area, given heterosexuality implies different genders of the same species.

So I think RTD isn't doing too badly on that front, but I think a lot of the up-front "let's talk about sex" is smoke and mirrors, hiding some more interesting themes.
 
 
Dark side of the Moonfrog1
09:17 / 23.10.06
Just made me wonder who the Mad Glawsegian that runs Torchwood 2 could be...
 
 
Evil Scientist
09:37 / 23.10.06
My first impressions of the show were generally positive. The team all seem to be relatively interesting, although neither Sato nor Jones got much chance to breath as characters.

I liked the base itself with it's TARDIS cloaked back-door, and pterodactyls in the rafters.

Both the first episodes were solid enough, although both a touch predictable. Gwen's snogging of the teenage lust parasite seemed a little contrived (oh right it's just male-gasms it needs, and yet it apparently can't tell the difference between male and female humans without a snog and a fumble, please).

I did like Owen's make-love-not-war solution to the angry boyfriend. Although it was a bit uncomfortable when you realise that he's effectively doing with alien love potion what a rapist does with rohypnol. So serial sex offender as Good Hat then.

The Hand of the Doctor is a nice touch, the ultimate "bit" part. Jack's immortality and reluctance to share anything about himself with the rest of the team makes me wonder what his plans are for Torchwood (and are they effectively running by themselves now that Torchwood 1 has been destroyed?).

Speculato-ago-go: Perhaps he encountered a version of himself that's lived for endless centuries and is (a)insane and evil, or (b) bored beyond belief. He's jaunted back to an era where encounters with the Doctor are most likely in order to try and change things.

Weevils = CHUDs. I will henceforth refer to them as such.
 
  

Page: (1)23456... 19

 
  
Add Your Reply