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Torchwood- Season One Discussion (As It Happens) SPOILERS

 
  

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Ganesh
15:15 / 17.11.06
At the current rate, it might achieve some sort of coherence of characterisation as it nears 200.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
06:45 / 18.11.06
True dat.

Meanwhile, trailer.

They've armed Ianto. That never ends well.

I like the idea that the Torchwood approach to crisis management now basically involves locking Ianto in a room with the alien and a gun.

"But this one isn't my girlfriend! We've never dated! I've got no issaaaaaaaghh!"
 
 
Ganesh
08:01 / 18.11.06
Perhaps he'll just pocket the gun and tidy up around the alien, with imperceptible resentment.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
12:15 / 18.11.06
Enter Jack:

"Why, Ianto! Is that a gun in your pocket, or ... uh ...

...
...
...

I'll get my greatcoat."
 
 
Ex
20:09 / 19.11.06
Eight good minutes in, aaaaand...

PHYSICAL THREATS AREN'T SEXY. KNEE HIM IN THE GROIN, GWEN.
 
 
penitentvandal
20:16 / 19.11.06
Hey, at least it's continuity...
 
 
penitentvandal
20:17 / 19.11.06
Why have Ianto and Tosh suddenly became characters in a cheesy low-budget horror flick?

'What was that?'
'Just a fox or something. Hey! Let's split up!'
 
 
Ex
20:20 / 19.11.06
True. And I love the idea of playing truth or dare with the gang and having Ianto chip it at the conclusion of each round with: 'Actually, the last time I drank three Aftershocks in a row and danced the Macarena was WITH MY DEAD KILLER CYBERBREASTY CELLAR-BOUND GIRLFRIEND. You CALLOUS BASTARDS.' [weeps salt Welsh underwritten tears]

Oops, should be watching the scary...
 
 
Ganesh
20:26 / 19.11.06
"Sorry she's dead, or sorry you mentioned it?"

Or, perhaps, sorry that Tintits had the opportunity to kill and perform impromptu neurosurgery before dying?
 
 
penitentvandal
20:33 / 19.11.06
Someone who hasn't heard of Torchwood? In Wales? Hmmm, suspicious...
 
 
penitentvandal
20:36 / 19.11.06
Ah, so now they're getting their arse handed to them by common-or-garden psychopaths...some fucking elite force, eh?
 
 
penitentvandal
20:39 / 19.11.06
Eh? Are Welsh coppers normally carrying sidearms, as a rule?
 
 
Lama glama
20:51 / 19.11.06
Chris Chibnall has been playing way too much Resident Evil 4. Oh woe, the horror that people unleash upon each other, behold his rural truths.
 
 
sleazenation
20:54 / 19.11.06
Given the two stories he has penned for torchwood thus far, I'm beginning to think there is a case for ensuring that Chris Chibnall is never allowed to play with crayons again...
 
 
Ex
20:56 / 19.11.06
'Let's set up base in the pub! The zombies will never find us there - unless they use their homage-dar...'
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:01 / 19.11.06
Seriously, I know I'm one of the main designated apologists for this show on the board, but if people didn't like that one I don't know what they want from it...

Genuinely scary, and with a twist that while it could be seen coming after a certain point, was still surprising in the sense that there was no alien/fantastical involvement at all - I was half-convinced that there would be some kind of "it's psychic distortion caused by electromagnetic waves from the Rift" explanation, but no. What made the last 15 minutes or so of this one really work was the strength of the performances of the villagers, including That Guy Out Of Those Other Things as the main cannibal. Great nasty leering smugness from him.

Plus, yeah, continuity and some development of characters: for Ianto, including some measure of redemption I think in terms of his willingness to sacrifice himself to give Tosh a chance to run, and also for Owen, who is unlikeable 70% of the time and rapey 10% - yet despite this, I don't think the turn of events with him and Gwen is implausible. It's not a good thing, in fact it's decidedly creepy and wrong - and it's also quite blatantly Buffy & Spike from season 6 - but I can buy it. So I think we're heading for some major, major fall-out there: and I do quite like this idea that Torchwood is this thing that is ruining Gwen's life, slowly, and probably everyone else's. Except Jack, who's either oblivious to it or just doesn't care.

Next week: it's Tosh's turn to do something that makes her Annual Review a little more interesting!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:12 / 19.11.06
I find it quite hard to articulate why Torchwood is annoying me so much. I think it might be because of its potential versus its execution ~ that it now seems so rubbish and bog-standard despite its decent premise, prestige slot, high budget and very good source mythos.

Again, my response mainly comes down to just how unprofessional, sloppy, thoughtless and amateurish both Torchwood and Torchwood are. I don't really want to do it in a list, but in haste:

~ Lack of internal continuity and logic, or even basic emotional and plot coherence between episodes ~ as noted above, everyone apologising for mentioning Ianto's girlfriend, the murdering alien he sneaked in and should have been sacked or killed for concealing.

~ Attempts at snappy, hard-ass professional lines that just go nowhere in the situation or story: "Judging by the air quality, we're deep underground", "I've never met a cell I can't get out of", "How are you on target pressure points?" followed by a woman letting them out of what's obviously a house cellar. All that smart, sub-X-Files chat about deduction and technique ends up having no relation to the real set-up or to what happens.

~ Utter lack of any convincing procedure or organisation among a "special ops" unit. In the face of a threat, they split up, tremble down alleys and point shaking gun-hands round corners. They puke at the sight of a dead body and go bug-eyed traumatised at a lack of criminal motive. They have no policy on backing each other up (beyond "when I say three, RUN!") and defend a building by blocking up the main door but leaving glass windows unprotected and forgetting the cellar. When they corner someone about to kill their own agent, they let country police offers get the drop on them. When one of them discovers a body, they all abandon the SUV with the keys inside. When the SUV goes missing, all the armed agents run after it, abandoning the dead body, as if they might catch it. (One minute later, it's apparently "four minutes' drive away").

~ Torchwood's stated motive, and the motivation of its characters, is meant to be to protect civilians. In this episode again, it seems to be their lowest priority. They let the boy get captured from a room with three special ops agents. They can't even protect their own.

~ What seems to be some approximation of a central theme about the Rift in Cardiff allowing aliens into our world is abandoned for a ho-hum old tale about nutso country cannibals; the whole set-up had a 1970s hokum about it, and this is hardly a case of producing contemporary horror from modern social issues. A number of scenes actually felt like live-action Scooby-Doo.

~ Grown-up drama = adults talking about who they snogged last.

~ Jack's big entrance (utterly predictable, not least because he's the only person left to do it) is backed with celestial choirs and slow motion. He lets off about a dozen precise shots while perhaps four antagonists have their guns pointed at the wall he bursts through, and don't get one shot fired.

~ Gwen's scene about needing to "KNOW" was totally overwritten and overplayed. She's seen things you people wouldn't believe (another gripe: too many of these pointless little in-jokes) and it's a rural community of killers that shocks her most? After she dealt with fairies last week, and a pterodactyl fighting a cyberwoman the week before? This is the case that's going to drive her mental because she doesn't know why people kill other people?

~ Final scene (OMG I thought she was alone in the room talking to herself, but he comes up behind her with no shirt on!! they must have been doing it!1) was the sort of "adult" drama I might have daringly written at age 13.
 
 
Ex
21:14 / 19.11.06
I'm not complaining, just idly mocking the amusing bits - definitely more scary than most, although pacing a little bit odd (too many near-escapes fudged and the guys dragged back into the clutches). And yes, Ianto headbutting his way to redemption was splendid.

I, too, like the idea that the plot is developing from 'starstruck normal girl meets big, glamorous alien world' to something more complex - Gwen realising that she's hooked up with a bunch of really inadequate and damaged weirdos. It's a bit like the theme in the last series of Dr Who of the Doctor picking up and dumping his companions and not caring about the aftereffects, but more pressing because Gwen is going home every evening. I'm glad - I hope - the central underlying drama won't be her choice between home cooked lasagne and pedestrian boyfriend, or sexy alien Captain Jack, because that seemed very trite. I'd rather have everyone disintegrate into rampant psychological damage.

I'd like it even more if there was more reference to the fact that they were only intended to be second-stringers, and the collapse of Torchwood 1 in London has left them lost - undertrained, understaffed and headed up by a conman.
 
 
Ganesh
21:17 / 19.11.06
I guess it just seemed such a mish-mash of other stuff that it was difficult to relax into. I was constantly thinking, "okay, so how are they going to blend all these homages together, make it their own?" When they got to the final scene, I could ki-i-ind of see what they were reaching for (humans are weird/vile/murderous enough on their own without any need for alien zhoozhing) but it still felt like a bit of a cop-out. I do tend to prefer that sort of grittily rural 'lost in the wilderness' horror to the glossier stuff, so I appreciated the look of the thing. I got the impression the writer had run out of ideas, though, and was trying to pass off his lack of an ending as Something Profound (or, at least, Something More Profound Than It Was).

A 'traditional' village-wide mass psychopathy, then? How did this "tradition" come about, and how come the previous massacres, each decade, haven't come to police attention (given the apparent lack of interest in clearing up afterwards). Does this craving for meat 'n' sadism simply subside between massacres?

Meh.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:27 / 19.11.06
And yes, Ianto headbutting his way to redemption was splendid.

I don't want to sound pedantic, but his headbutt left no visible damage to the other guy, and knocked him down for literally a couple of seconds. In a gritty thriller which is partly built around bodily shocks, this kind of utterly pantomimic violence (like the other obstacles to believable "realism", cited above ~ such as the team's absolute lack of professionalism) really undermines the drama for me and pulls me out of any involvement.

I don't think Gwen's alienation and anxiety works either. It's being overdone and melodramatically played, and it's becoming a tedious theme (as was noted on a previous page, Captain Jack is already doing the "Lost God" Doctor character, and now Gwen's citing Roy Batty as if she's stranded, out of time, with nobody who can understand her). Also, there's just not enough treatment of her in her everyday life to make her regret at the change mean anything. She doesn't honestly seem to care about Rhys at all. She gives no sense of being an ordinary police officer wrenched into a strange world. She acts pretty much exactly like the rest of the team ~ scared, wisecracking, fairly hopeless. They all come across like kids trying to play grown-up, which is maybe an interesting take on the Torchwood crew. But she doesn't seem like the outsider, and her personal drama hasn't been convincingly set up to the point that I care about it, at all.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:29 / 19.11.06
Yeah, next: sci-fi magic makes the one female member of the team who hasn't had a girl-girl kiss, have a girl-girl kiss. And someone says "shag".

You could just tick off the permutations in advance.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:33 / 19.11.06
Um, Tosh's sexuality hasn't been touched on at all: the whole point of the fact that her last kiss was under some mistletoe with Owen and he doesn't remember it is - oh never mind.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:37 / 19.11.06
I'm starting to think the most interesting angle on Torchwood might be that they all remind me a bit of Bugsy Malone, or that superhero team of young teenagers in Seven Soldiers ~ scared, inexperienced kids fumbling around with guns and snoggin', bluffing to each other about their experience, faking it through lines they've heard on TV and in movies, but really, hopelessly... tragically would be good... out of their depth in an adult world. And led by Captain Jack as a kind of Captain Hook, or Fagin, or even a Peter Pan.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
21:41 / 19.11.06
Quite liked the Wicker Man/American Werewolf vibe of this episode, but was PARTICULARLY annoyed by two things.

1. Gwen's "OMG you kill people for kicks!!!11! I may never recover!!" scene

2. The bit where Gwen - trained in marksmanship, let's not forget, in a highly phallic Episode 2 montage by Captain "Torturewood" Jack himself - fucks up the Mexican standoff. I mean,
a) she was about four feet away
b) all she had to do was shoot the policeman's gun arm, not shoot him dead.

Basically I am getting less and less thrilled with Gwen's developing role as clueless, irritating dumb bitch.

Oh, and Owen's interesting attempt at seduction-through-extreme-rapeyness was about the least sexy thing I've seen since ... well, the last time Owen tried to seduce anyone. I just cannot buy any conceivable level at which Gwen might consider him hott. Although character-wise he slightly redeemed himself by fixing her shotgun wound.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:49 / 19.11.06
Although character-wise he slightly redeemed himself by fixing her shotgun wound.

Any doctors in the house can explain why if the pellets from the gun only went into her skin, they would have damaged her internal organs if it had hit two inches to the left. Maybe that was just Owen bluffing, for effect.

I know I may be harshly interrogating a show that now plays as B-movie tosh. I am at least trying to give it close attention, though.
 
 
Ganesh
21:51 / 19.11.06
They all come across like kids trying to play grown-up, which is maybe an interesting take on the Torchwood crew.

Mmm. Certainly, it's hard to imagine baby-faced rapemeister Owen slogging through all those years at medical school and acquiring a level of expertise befitting an outside-the-law agency (or maybe just randomly walking in with a pizza). Difficult also to see how he maintains his l33t m3d1cal 5killz in the absence of any sort of patient contact ever. Still, he did at least have the presence of mind to be carrying the first aid kit around with him, rather than leaving it in the SUV, with the keys.

The problem with the kids-pissing-around thing is that it also makes the Torchwood crew's sexualities look a tad juvenile and unexamined - as if it's not so much a case of them being bisexual as being stuck in that experimental adolescent period of insecurely shagging anything going without any sense of directed emotional intelligence or conscious awareness of sexual identity. The children-in-adults'-clothes theme runs to the sexual arena too. Which means, as MW says, that it can come across as idly ticking off the permutations.

I too find the scenes with Gwen's partner, Rhys, peculiarly unmoving - and can't help mentally contrasting them with Russell T's portrayal of a hetero union in crisis (as a result of Teh Unexpected Love Affair!) in Bob & Rose. We'd had time to get to know Rose's similarly 'homely' partner, and the pain of that 'good enough' relationship's disintegration was much more palpable. If and when Gwen's sexing of BabyRapist takes its toll on her and Rhys, I suspect it's going to leave me quite cold.
 
 
Ganesh
21:56 / 19.11.06
1. Gwen's "OMG you kill people for kicks!!!11! I may never recover!!" scene

I also thought her "I've seen attack ships on fire, etc., and this is the only thing I don't understand" was somewhat disingenuous. Does she fully understand the motives of the Weevils? The Faeries? Ianto?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
22:53 / 19.11.06
I don't want to sound pedantic, but his headbutt left no visible damage to the other guy

Well, apart from the broken nose ...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
23:19 / 19.11.06
Oh, I missed that then. But he seemed to get up and run around pretty easily, if he had a broken nose. I would have thought they were so painful you'd just lie on the ground moaning.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
23:20 / 19.11.06
But it's still not as Realistic as it should be. Would Andy McNabb have written it like that? No. And that's what this programme should be like.
 
 
Ganesh
23:24 / 19.11.06
Yes, because clearly that's what's being said here.
 
 
Ganesh
23:31 / 19.11.06
I'm starting to think the most interesting angle on Torchwood might be that they all remind me a bit of Bugsy Malone, or that superhero team of young teenagers in Seven Soldiers ~ scared, inexperienced kids fumbling around with guns and snoggin', bluffing to each other about their experience, faking it through lines they've heard on TV and in movies, but really, hopelessly... tragically would be good... out of their depth in an adult world. And led by Captain Jack as a kind of Captain Hook, or Fagin, or even a Peter Pan.

I agree that it would be pretty good if the overarching meta-framework managed to encompass the fact that Torchwood is a bit shit, and incorporate that into the plot somehow. I do like what little we've heard about the London and Glasgow Torchwoods, and it'd be interesting to see those links (or lack of them) explored. I seriously doubt that's what's happening, though.

Isn't the next one - Greeks Bearing Gifts - written by the guy who did School Reunion?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
00:47 / 20.11.06
But it's still not as Realistic as it should be. Would Andy McNabb have written it like that? No. And that's what this programme should be like.

I don't really know for sure what the programme should be like, Flyboy. I was expecting a show quite a lot like Doctor Who meets the X-Files and I've got something more like Robin Hood meets Scooby Doo.

The "we're all lost kids!2" angle I stumbled on in my posts above, expanding the point others have identified that Torchwood is basically hopeless, covered up with a lot of bluff and snappy patter, would be interesting I think... but I don't think it's going to emerge from the series at all.

I guess I wouldn't mind if I felt the show was doing one thing, and doing it consistently. I just feel it's a mess. It could have been cool, sexy, stylish and fun, and it's chaos... and not beautiful chaos, either. It's the Eton Road of television just now.
 
 
Ganesh
05:48 / 20.11.06
'Scooby Dactyl'?
 
 
■
07:43 / 20.11.06
I have this image of Mark Gatiss watching this through his fingers and muttering "no, that's not how you do it at all..."
 
  

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