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Torchwood- Season One Discussion (As It Happens) SPOILERS

 
  

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miss wonderstarr
09:58 / 23.10.06
Yeah, it's odd if Owen sneeringly identifies Jack as gay because of his outfit, whereas Owen seems open-mindedly sexually manipulative of both men and women in episode 1. But to be fair, it's an interesting oddness and category-slippiness.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:13 / 23.10.06
See now, I didn't really have any expectations for this.

But I have the same issues I have with RTD that I've had in the past. There's an overt fannish-ness to the writing which I don't find particularly appealing, like he's too scared to really go with his own ideas and just write, and has to bluntly hit us in the head with other people's to make up for it. I really didn't feel like the twist worked - I just thought he's been watching his Buffy dvds again (you know, the whole bit about Xander's friend who gets turned in to a vampire in the first episode or whatever, and how he was going to be in the titles sequence). And besides the resolution coming out of nowhere and not being built up at all, there were various other elements that just seemed a bit uncomfortable.

While I don't doubt that the alien love potion is one of those grey areas that RTD is intent on exploring later (hello Angel) I just take issue with the way the actual scene was portrayed here... what's that? Played for laughs, Hollyoaks style by Lee Evans little brother! Comedy equal oppurtunities date rape, slap on wrist (for the team) at the end. That's all we get from the episode itself, and I find that bothersome.

Ultraviolet was just played straight, it just appeared one day and it was it was. It had a look and it felt whole, mainly. I'd really like to see this show pull that off, instead of being so aspirational in what it wants to be (the constant reminders of what it's not, although I'm aware this is because of my own knowledge of these shows - but then RTD's own is constantly in your face which is my issue / it's sometimes like he's writing a story about his dvd collection) and just be it's own show. I thought the writing was weak in that it felt like shorthand, there were lots of shortcuts and detail fuzzy areas (for something supposedly so secret... well, they're not) that have all been mentioned. I wish it concentrated more on telling a story, in it's own right, instead of plugging holes with poses. I really want him to get over his Buffy/Angel obsession and just write.

Weevils = RTD has been watching Ronnie Mars. You just know it...

The sets look great. But - they just can't film them in a way that looks decent. While they look good they film them in a way that makes it clear it's being filmed which I find totally jarring - even the film stock. Full of bubbling little things (did the docs hand really have to be BUBBLING AWAY like a witches brew?) and all a bit overegged, like it's a theme park recreation of what the set should actually be like, shot by newsround.

I have no qualms with the budget, but just how they go about what they actually can do. It all feels garish and patchy. I look at shows that carry off a look like Veronica Mars or Battlestar Galactica. Then I think that might be an unfair comparison, but I'm talking more about coherency of the world and consistency - hues and tones that let you know what it is you're watching, rather than massive special effects budgets. It's just a design issue, and I want it all to fit together. Buffy was not exactly expensive looking but they pulled it off (sort of, I think there's a case to be made for the cast holding it all together - and like Paleface I find Barrowman equally occasionally irksome). Maybe I don't know enough about budgets and what's possible - but shows like Ultraviolet, and countless other BBC shows seem to point to it being possible at least.

I think all the elements are there for this to be good - and the flotsam theory almost makes me like it a great deal more. I just feel they need to be put it together a bit better, rather than this somewhat shoddy feeling of hastily pasted-ness.

I'd really like it to deliver on it's promise, and I really think it could shape up to be something good. All the good bits have been mentioned and if it continues to build on and expand on those then I can see it being quite an exciting prospect. I hope it settles down in to it's own groove and gets a bit more comfortable, and I realise it's a bit harsh on only a couple of eps. That and Eva Myles has distractingly huge eyes, you can see her whole iris all of the time!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:29 / 23.10.06
HURRY UP BITTORRENT.
 
 
Lama glama
12:33 / 23.10.06
That and Eva Myles has distractingly huge eyes, you can see her whole iris all of the time!

Don't forget the other distracting part of her face. Mind the gap!

(Sorry)
 
 
The Strobe
12:52 / 23.10.06
hues and tones that let you know what it is you're watching, rather than massive special effects budgets

I was talking to sleaze about this last night. I find that the BBC always light their dramas far too brightly and far too directly. CSI can often be a gaudy show, but it still manages to look as if it's mainly lit by natural light.

Who always seems to a look a little... naff. Even when it's got great sets, good effects, not a drop of budget wasted... it still looks like a sitcom. I wish someone could produce a slightly more natural-looking tone - C4 have no problem with this in whatever they do.

In many ways, Robin Hood has a marginally better look than Who/Torchwood, but it's still a bit bright. I don't think it's cameras or film stock; I honestly think it's lighting. And it annoys me. Hell, Green Wing looks better at points.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:08 / 23.10.06
Thought that visually, this was very reminiscent of Angel (big flappy coat, immortal hero, constant shots of flyovers at night) - but I rather liked that.

However, I found RTD's apparent obsession with gaying-up the characters (or at least bisexualising them) somewhat distracting - it's as though now we are post-watershed this is the only aspect of them that could possibly be interesting.

I know Torchwood is not quite our world, but it's pretty damn close, and if people who have been telling themselves their whole lives that they are straight (Owen, Gwen) suddenly get into a same-gender clinch, they are not just going to shrug it off and go on their merry way like Owen and Gwen do. (Although admittedly Gwen tries to pass it off as an effect of the alien pheromones, Owen has no such comfortable excuse - the sex spray works on the boyfriend, not him.) I get that he wants it to be OK to be gay in Torchwood Cardiff (unlike, I suspect, much of real Cardiff) but nonetheless, this should be headspinny stuff for these characters, not blithely chucked away for a gag.

Not everybody (in fact, nobody, bar possibly the Doctor) is a time-travelling pansexual joytoy like Captain Jack - and yet that's what RTD seems to want them to be, and I have no idea why, especially as it somewhat spoils Jack's sexy-ass USP. If everyone starts getting off with everything this early on it will quickly become boring. At least build up some tension between the characters first.

Also, posibly just me, but I have real trouble believing Jack is even slightly heterosexual. It's a niggle, but I simply can't buy it - the kiss with Carys left me totally cold. And obviously I'd far rather see him get off with a bloke.

Also, major (second-ep?) first-season Angel tribute there too - remember the sex-hungry alien that moves from host to host via bodily fluids, pursued by Detective Kate? In fact, I'd go so far as to say ep 2 of Torchwood is a blatant rip-off of that episode. I hope Whedon's getting a cut.

Needless to say, after all that carping, I really enjoyed it and can't wait for the next episode. Also, I know the bloke who plays Gwen's blond former partner (the young copper).
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:09 / 23.10.06
Paleface: Yes! That makes a lot of sense. Like I say, I don't know a lot about this, but it's definitely not budget concern. More technique and style...

I just think for a show that is so obviously meant to be steeped in darkness and rain and brooding and all that, they might want some greys, dark blues and perhaps give the whole thing more of a metallic-like sheen. Just to have it's own palette... say, the colour schemes from the promotional images. (I seem to remember Ultraviolet wasn't bright like this - my memory misleading me - but that show felt dark and was supposed to be dark...)

And I think you're bang on, because it can look like the cast are pasted on to the sets merely by having an almost halo-like ring light around them, like bad special effects. And that's quite undesirable for a show like this.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:14 / 23.10.06
Pssst, Angel was lit better! All those pools of light and shadows! All im saying is, it started out with an indentifiable look and carried that on throughout - sunny hazes, oranges and yellows, light creeping through windows and cracks juxtaposed with real darkness.
 
 
The Strobe
13:40 / 23.10.06
However, I found RTD's apparent obsession with gaying-up the characters (or at least bisexualising them) somewhat distracting - it's as though now we are post-watershed this is the only aspect of them that could possibly be interesting.

Exactly. There's another set of "adult spin-offs" which do exactly this to previously unsexualised characters, and that's the Hollyoaks ones. I mean, the last T&A Hollyoaks spin off (the name of which escapes me) involved the girls falling into cahoots with some form of escort agency, and the boys falling into cahoots with a crap Liverpudlian gangster. You can't make this up. And, of course, everybody swears and shags all the time, to make up for the fact they can't do it at 6.30pm.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
13:56 / 23.10.06
Also, posibly just me, but I have real trouble believing Jack is even slightly heterosexual. It's a niggle, but I simply can't buy it - the kiss with Carys left me totally cold.

I'm not sure what was up with Gwen kissing him, actually ~ that's two other people she's snogged in two episodes now, despite having a steady boyfriend.

Barrowman snogging four aspiring Marias on the Sound of Music auditions show left me quite hot.
 
 
Saveloy
14:12 / 23.10.06
Dammit, am I the only person who didn't twig that it's the Doctor's hand?

Suedey:

"I just think for a show that is so obviously meant to be steeped in darkness and rain and brooding and all that, they might want some greys, dark blues and perhaps give the whole thing more of a metallic-like sheen."

Is it meant to be dark and broody, though? I'm glad they haven't gone all-out for literal darkness, because - well, there's just too much of that about on the telly. Half yer sci-fi and crime dramas might just as well be on the flipping radio. I think it adds to the weirdness for Torchwood to have more in common, lighting-wise, with, er, Heartbeat than Buffy et al. Strange carry-ons IN THE DAYTIME, that's what I want to see more of.

Which is why I'm a bit *wobbly hand* about the Torchwood interior - the cells are a total Silence of the Lambs 'homage', aren't they?

But yeah, I mostly loved it and am all excited about the kind of mad alien tech that might crop up.

Did anyone else notice moments where the script writer(s) had characters ask the sort of hole-picking questions that your average sci-fi fan would be asking at home, so that another character could answer them and thereby silence the nit-picking sods? I'm certain there were at least three or four in last night's episodes but I cannae remember the specifics.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
14:23 / 23.10.06
Well, in the sense of how I've seen it talked about by the creators in articles and whatnot... yes, that's what they were going for. S'all rain and alleyways and that. That's the only reason I used those words...

I don't mean I specifically want it to be dark and broody, but it feels a little over the place and I'd like it to have a stronger visual identity all of it's own (and certainly not of the generic literal darkness sense). But that may well happen as it finds it's feet.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
14:52 / 23.10.06
Did anyone else notice moments where the script writer(s) had characters ask the sort of hole-picking questions that your average sci-fi fan would be asking at home, so that another character could answer them and thereby silence the nit-picking sods?

Nobody explained why they didn't take fingerprints off the toilet sinks, rather than failing to find any on an alley wall, and get a CCTV facial from any one of the club cameras, instead of making do with a blurry image from a dark alley ~ and then crossreferencing that faulty evidence against a database of every face in the UK, *bullshit pseudo-science*
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:57 / 23.10.06
Just watched the first episode and really enjoyed it... didn't realise they were showing two! Downloading the second as we speak... will return to the thread when I have no fear of spoilers.
 
 
■
15:13 / 23.10.06
What I find very heartening is that RTD has only written the first show. I just checked Wikipedia as I was convinced this must be true after the improvement of the second over the first episode. However, I would not encourage anyone else to do so if they don't want spoilers as someone has gone and put summaries of all the upcoming plots on there. Looking forward to PJ Hammond's, and I want to have no idea at all about what happens in it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:27 / 23.10.06
I did like Owen's make-love-not-war solution to the angry boyfriend.

Though I did wonder in what circumstances, where someone was about to punch you, would they wait to see what it was rather than assuming it was a knife or gun.

Nobody explained why they didn't take fingerprints off the toilet sinks, rather than failing to find any on an alley wall

Hang on, they did get prints off the wall, didn't they? They just didn't have a match- as she said, she'd never been in trouble.

I'm loving it so far... and I'm guessing, that while wonderstarr's right about the adolescent sex-obsession thing, the reason episode two WAS episode two was so they could firmly get across the idea that this ISN'T a kids' show (despite the fact that RTD says he wants kids to watch it anyway) early on, before families around the country implode over children not being allowed to watch episode eight or something of their new favourite programme.

LOVING Jack more than I did in Who, and he was pretty damn cool then.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:35 / 23.10.06
Hang on, they did get prints off the wall, didn't they? They just didn't have a match- as she said, she'd never been in trouble.

I thought they got imperfect prints off the wall ~ anyway, a pretty stupid place to try, when someone's had her hands all over a bathroom counter and sink. And people have to have been in trouble to have their prints on Torchwood's files, but every person in Britain has their face on Torchwood's files? And you get a dodgy image from an alley-cam, but you don't use the CCTV from the brightly lit bathroom instead?

I think they'd get pretty sick of me if I was the Torchwood newbie.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:45 / 23.10.06
Well, getting pictures of people without them knowing about it is a lot easier than getting their fingerprints... the cops have that problem all the time. I've never given anyone my prints, but my photo's been taken tons of times.

I imagine the bathroom would be covered with people's prints as well... figuring out which were which would be a colossal task.

Get your point about the CCTV and lighting, though.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:46 / 23.10.06
Also I'm just really annoying myself now with my whining, so I think maybe I should stop myself from commenting on Torchwood until episode 3.
 
 
_Boboss
18:32 / 23.10.06
shit the bed get your accents out then. are there really enough ipso-welsho actors on the planet to sustain more than a few eps. of this show?

overall it was just a bit... i dunno, 'tinny' or something? the lighting, i think, as mentioned above, was perhaps the problem. whatever the sets reminded me of mike read's saturday superstore, all pointless wires and people working in the background.

and the laddish one, his face was all smoothy shiney plastic looking and wrong.

the time slot will be the saving of this one i guess.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:01 / 23.10.06
Am I the only person who is reminded of Pete off Big Brother by Owen (only with a wider mouth)?

I keep expecting him to shout "WANKERS!!!"

It's kind of disconcerting when he doesn't.


WHY DO I HAVE TO WAIT A WEEK FOR MORE OF THIS, YOU FUCKS???

HUMANITY IN THE 21ST CENTURY IS IMPATIENT.
 
 
Lama glama
23:35 / 23.10.06
The ratings are in and the Torchwood debut received 2.4 million viewers. Some blogs state that it's the highest rating (non sports related) broadcast on digital television in years. Sky One, never to be left behind in their quest for ratings, have (as related elsewhere on the board) acquired the rights to screen Lost season three, premiering Sunday November 19th. Apparently, they'll be putting it in the same time-slot as Torchwood. It'll be interesting to see which will get more ratings-the well established brand of Lost, or the spin off (albeit from the well established brand of Doctor Who) Torchwood. I know that even if it's trounced in the ratings by Lost, it'll still pick up more viewers during the terrestrial screening, however RTD and the BBC presumably designed Torchwood for their main digital channel, and to have to do battle with their main competition of Sky One and Lost, is surely not what they were hoping for.

Anyway. Hurray for 2.4 million.
 
 
penitentvandal
14:34 / 24.10.06
Re. the 'getting into places just by saying Torchwood' thing, could it be that 'Torchwood' functions as a kind of hypnotic keyword like 'Midas' in Marvel Boy? Torchwood personnel have infiltrated government organisations and implanted all members of these organisations, during training, with post-hypnotic suggestions to defer to anyone who uses the word 'Torchwood' in an authoritative tone of voice. They've had over a hundred years to do it; a hundred years to slowly infiltrate other arms of government while drifting away from them ideologically and pursuing their own agenda. It would be cool if Torchwood became to the Doctor as the Psi Corps were to Babylon 5, expecially because this series will effectively present things from the Corps' viewpoint - I actually rather wanted Gwen to forget everything and never appear again in order to establish the 'Wood as a sneaky bunch of fuckers but alas, no.

I'm very ill, you know.
 
 
sleazenation
21:30 / 24.10.06
The second episode came from Chris Chibnall. Hopefully his future contributions to the series will be better.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
21:33 / 24.10.06
Loved the first episode, am currently watching the second episode, which has completely ripped off an outer limits episode I saw when I was 12! alien sex gas makes lady super horny and eating the people she sexes up! come on rtd, at least "homage" things I don't know about!

still, I am in love with captain jack.
 
 
■
23:00 / 24.10.06
You have checked your keyboard isn't giving off gases to make you more suggestible, haven't you?
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:02 / 25.10.06
If it is then counter it with a tab of cake.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:47 / 25.10.06
What, when the dangers to your Shatner's Bassoon are so well known?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
19:07 / 25.10.06
Finally....downloaded episode one.

Will watch this evening.
 
 
Feverfew
20:43 / 25.10.06
Right, you sods, I've been waiting till tonight to read and post here because I missed Sunday night's showing and had to see the repeat.

My main worry was that Torchwood would be, more or less, A town called Eurekardiff, with only Captain Jack Harkness to save it from such a fate.

(And I almost believed that, for a while, in the first episode.)

But... I like it. Then again, I've always liked it when the BBC throw in gratuitous swearing ("That was me. I'm a twat.") and, apparently, sex.

I'll have to come back when I have slightly more coherent cogent constructive criticism, though, I think, but for now... Fun!
 
 
■
21:40 / 25.10.06
Yeah, it's got holes everywhere, it's a bit immature but I am enjoying. Standing on buildings... Jack's just a conceptual Parcour expert, isn't he? He doesn't need to run anywhere, he just stands somewhere impressive and waits until the Earth moves.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:47 / 25.10.06
Hang on... did I miss a meeting? Were we expecting this to be at all plausible? And if so, why?
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
21:47 / 25.10.06
In general I enjoyed the first two episodes, and it's interesting what everyone is saying about Ultraviolet. There are quite a lot of similarities, but I'd also agree the latter was better made, even if the acting sometimes got as ropey. But that's TV skiffy for the most part - it's not something to watch for the technique.

I never did get around to watching the new Dr Who for more than half an episode here and there, so the pumped-up twentifirst century version's spinoff is quite a novelty for now. I'll probably keep watching too - even if it is to pick holes in the plot and production while enjoying it thoroughly. After all, I do the same with CSI (and that was a neat little CSI Cardiff joke at the begining of the first episode of Torchwood), which is quite a bit more dubious on so many levels.

Re. the 'getting into places just by saying Torchwood' thing,

I like the idea that it's a hypnotic code - but why do they have it painted on the wings of their big black not-at-all-inconspicuous jeep if they're so far beyond classified?
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
21:48 / 25.10.06
Were we expecting this to be at all plausible? And if so, why?

Ummm, oh yeah. No.
 
 
■
21:53 / 25.10.06
big black not-at-all-inconspicuous jeep

I want to know why they didn't put the silly blue lights in the middle and call it FITT or something.
 
  

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