BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Conflict and complaint thread

 
  

Page: 12345(6)7891011... 13

 
 
Ganesh
10:40 / 03.10.06
I'll repeat that my last two posts pertain to the unsatisfactory current situation regarding banning people generally, rather than ParanoidWriter in particular.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
10:41 / 03.10.06
Response to Tom's post, albeit not nessecarily to Tom.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:42 / 03.10.06
I think that's an imponderable, isn't it, really? I mean, there's an emergent point where somebody during a discussion thinks "hang on, this is now sufficiently heavy that Tom needs to be notified". This time around that may have come slightly early, but, actually, I think not unreasonably early - Shadowsax, 33 and Modzero have presented us with some pretty clear models of behaviour that creates Tom-inviting situations. And each time the process actually took less time - getting rid of Modzero felt like it took a year or so, one way or another, but realistically probably took some months, Shadowsax's banning discussion was wrenching and unpleasant, but over in a week or so, and this one, I think, will be resolved one way or another in the fairly near future, and I suspect without too much subsequent heartache.

Tom - hypothetically, can I run a possibility past you? Would you be amenable to accepting a situation where, were PW to post again in the Policy, he would be immediately, no-if/no-buts banned, but could post elsewhere unless he started to use other fora in similar ways, in which case we could reopen this thread and turn it into a banning thread? PW's increasing problems seem to start around the point where, after the Bullying Thread, he starts to post compulsively to the policy, made monstrously, ineffably worse by the discussion of the use of patois in the discussions aroound Birthdaygate? Forcible exclusion from the Policy seems artificial, but it might be kinder, and it is not going to work on willpower alone...

More generally, and talking to Ganesh's point, Tom has said elsewhere that Cal is talking about returning to us and doing a bit of coding. Could we perhaps prioritise a discussion about using that coding time in the first instance to give some/all moderators intermediate powers?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:46 / 03.10.06
I would suggest we let PW play the ball. If he remerges with the same attitude as before he went on hiatus we can move to an immediate discussion of banning. If he shows signs of understanding and accepting people's concerns, even if some board members doubt his sincerity, then perhaps we back down from red alert and give everyone a space to breathe.
 
 
Ganesh
10:47 / 03.10.06
I mean, there's an emergent point where somebody during a discussion thinks "hang on, this is now sufficiently heavy that Tom needs to be notified".

Which is fine, but let's not be under any illusions as to this "somebody" being representative of the majority of posters, or a particular banning impetus necessarily having been reached. If all it takes is a single appeal to Tom, well and good, but let's uncouple that from wider notions of consensus.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:50 / 03.10.06
Oh, absolutely. As I say, it's emergent, and may emerge sooner or later, based on all sorts of properties.

On this one - are we agreed that anyone who wants to can post specific questions, that PW is expected also to address the questions asked so far in this thread, and that anyone can also state that they do not feel their question has received an answer?
 
 
Ganesh
10:53 / 03.10.06
Could we perhaps prioritise a discussion about using that coding time in the first instance to give some/all moderators intermediate powers?

Seconding this plea. I think we need a temporary suit-freeze option operable by however-many moderators in the absence of Tom.
 
 
Triplets
11:42 / 03.10.06
I love this thread. I hope pw is resting up for a final burst of crazy.
 
 
Ganesh
11:44 / 03.10.06
Thanks for that, Triplets.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:53 / 03.10.06
(Apologies for my own absence from this thread- I want to contribute, but a weekend that got out of hand has left me sans glasses, and it hurts to do much computery stuff at home when I need to save my eyes for work.)

I'm in agreement with those that say having offered a last chance we have to give it in good faith. I'm also in agreement with those who don't really understand what's happened to pw in the last few weeks.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:02 / 03.10.06
I'm also in agreement with those who don't really understand what's happened to pw in the last few weeks

Along with the vast majority of Policy readers I should think.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:09 / 03.10.06
Perhaps he really is related to Robert Anton Wilson, and has been destabilised by the man's recent poor health?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:14 / 03.10.06
People, people. Could we keep this channel clear, please? I think we've concluded that it might be a good start if we just leave the thread for PW to come back again to some of the questions that have already been asked. I have some others based on this thread, but I'd like to see if the ground is covered before coming up against the respect issue.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:33 / 03.10.06
Although he might have meant to post this in this thread.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
16:10 / 03.10.06
Not wishing to cloud the channel unduly, but if that is indeed the case, how much breath holding do we want to do here before determining a course of action?
 
 
Sniv
16:15 / 03.10.06
Let's hope so, because otherwise that post made no sense whatsoever.

I haven't had time to post in this thread yet, as I've been trying to play catch-up with you prolific people. I would certainly agree that PW has been much less than helpful, but I can't help but think that it's because he's so defensive, rather than willfully distruptive (alhough it rightly can be argued that that has been the result).

So I'm not sure where I stand on banning. As other posters have mentioned, it does seem to be a big hole thatPW has dug for himself, I just wonder if he can climb out of it and it can be filled in (to beat a metaphor to death).

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before (although the simplicity of it makes me think it might have been), but, for this type of banning discussion would it not be possible to put some kind of voting-script into the thread? Give it a time limit, and advertise it in the convo and have a thread with the first post "Should poster x be banned? Yes or No?" with some check-boxes and a submit button. Collate the results and then act on it when the time limit has passed. Obviously, the thread would only be put up after serious discussion (like, say, this one), but it would be a fairly easy way of guaging board opinion apart from the posters that take post a lot in these discussions already. It would be fairly simple to limit it to one-poster, one vote. Is there a reason we don't do this?

%Or, if we're not banning, can we at least confiscate his caps-lock and shift key for his crimes against capitalisation in the RAW thread?%
 
 
illmatic
16:23 / 03.10.06
would it not be possible to put some kind of voting-script into the thread? Give it a time limit, and advertise it in the convo and have a thread with the first post "Should poster x be banned? Yes or No?" with some check-boxes and a submit button.

I don't know if it is possible. Barbelith is handcoded by Cal, so those sort of amendants may not be possible at present. The kind of polls etc that you see on UBB software, aren't to my knowledge, part of the board set up. I've never seen one before or heard them discussed. We have to limit these discussions to what is technically possible which at the moment is not much, beyond discussion and debate.

Secondly, if someone doesn't feel strongly enough about the issue to post here and register their greviance or otherwise, why should they have a vote? It doesn't take long to say "I like him, he should stay, this is why" or the opposite. If one is isn't prepared to articulate and state your feelings, over something as serious as banning, I don't see why your vote should carry any weight in the discussion.
 
 
Quantum
17:23 / 03.10.06
If that post was indeed the Writer's last hurrah, then we don't need to do anything- if my understanding of Good Bye, BB. is correct, and x (<---- that's a borrowed mark. Today, for me, it means that I am knocking over my OWN King/Parents, with LOVE...) means "I'm leaving" then our work here is done.

Of course, if he comes back (again) then we should judge his response and act accordingly, but if he does actually bow out then we can let this die, right?
 
 
Spaniel
18:13 / 03.10.06
With LOVE. We can let it die WITH LOVE.

I just want to say that I totally object to Qalyn's suggestion that we should ban for aesthetic reasons. I may not like some of PW's authorial tics, and his style may occasionally grate, but I'd resist wholeheartedly any call to ban him on that criteria. We're having this discussion because he's shat all over Policy, period.

On the subject of his latest posting spree, I'm pretty sure he's said nothing to suggest that he's prepared to take a break.
 
 
illmatic
18:19 / 03.10.06
I think Qalyn was half joking, half expressing annoyance at PW. As to the general situation, I guess we're waiting for Tom to ban now, which he'll do soon enought.
 
 
Spaniel
18:22 / 03.10.06
Good Bye, BB

Ah, sorry, hurty sinuses this evening.

Of course that could just mean that he expects to be banned.
 
 
electric monk
18:39 / 03.10.06
And ze doesn't seem all that concerned about it, from what I can tell. I'd have thought he'd return here to at least try to explain his position. Instead, he's bopping around Convo, making less and less sense. Off with him, I say.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:43 / 03.10.06
Right now PW's on hiatus still, no?
 
 
Spaniel
18:47 / 03.10.06
Is he, what's he been doing in the Convo then?
 
 
electric monk
18:48 / 03.10.06
I was under the impression that he'd be back in this thread 24 hours after his last post (page 4) to answer questions and so forth.
 
 
Quantum
18:58 / 03.10.06
And after much deliberation...
YOU win; I LOOSE.
It's up to you now.
Forgive or Forget me?
I always LOVED RAW.
Good Bye, BB.


That SUGGESTS to ME he's BARBESEPPUKU'd and WON'T be BACK to ANSWER any QUESTIONS. We'll see.
 
 
Ganesh
19:10 / 03.10.06
I think a hiatus - enforced or otherwise - would be a Good Thing for all concerned.
 
 
Olulabelle
19:11 / 03.10.06
I guess we're waiting for Tom to ban now, which he'll do soon enought.

PW has been offered the opportunity to resond here and so I hope no ban happens before he has taken that chance up, if he chooses too. Banning without the proper debate bothers me.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:20 / 03.10.06
At the very least, he'd need to respond to this thread before he posts anywhere else on the board again. If he does otherwise, it's got to be seen as proof positive that making an honest attempt to resolve this situation is some way down his list.
 
 
grant
20:38 / 03.10.06
I thought the idea was no posting in Policy for at least 24 hours.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:42 / 03.10.06
I'm with Lula on this one- I'm also a little disappointed if he ISN'T going to take the opportunity to make amends.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:48 / 03.10.06
Although am I being overoptimistic to hope this is a genuine desire for a clean slate?
 
 
Psi-L is working in hell
20:50 / 03.10.06
Erm....so did we come up with a contingency plan for what happens if PW just starts posting to the board again, as it seems he is, without coming back here and addressing the concerns and questions?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:52 / 03.10.06
I thought it was instant bannination if he posted in the Policy during that 24 hours. I don't think it was stipulated that he couldn't post anywhere else when he came back- I think we just assumed he'd want to come back to this thread to set things straight.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
20:54 / 03.10.06
OK. I thought some of you wanted me to stay out of Policy? (joke, joke; please try to read this post as though I'm smiling warmly; please?)

The title of this thread is: "Conflict and complaint thread". I have a problem with that; but it's MY problem; obviously.

I also want no conflict, but I do hear your complaints.

So, may I offer the following (with all due respect)?...

I will go though this thread and take out every sentence with a Question Mark at its end (those in others' posts, of course). This will take me AGES (Sadly); but, if you want, I will do that and then try to answer them ALL as though they are coming from a place of LOVE.

In my last post in this thread I ASKED for some things, but they didn't happen, which shows me I was ignorant to have asked for them in the first place.

I'm sorry, Barbelith. I don't know how many ways and times I can say that, or where betst to say it.

I will leave if you choose.

But please note: I have ALWAYS been against 'banning' and I have told you I LOVE YOU more times than many lately.... I think....

I'll work on it...

Cool?



X
 
  

Page: 12345(6)7891011... 13

 
  
Add Your Reply