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Conflict and complaint thread

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23:23 / 01.10.06

Shall we not do the "you're on drugs", "no, you are" thing?

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:24 / 01.10.06

One more time, PW. Can you provide any evidence whatsoever, at the time you made the accusations, that:

a) I had said that I knew what everyone thought
b) I had told you to leave Barbelith
c) Randy (now Sheik Zed) had suggested that your friend was not real?

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:27 / 01.10.06

Nope. Can you provide evidence that I actually said exactly what you are saying that I said to those you say I said it too? i.e. 1-3.

Haus, do YOU actually LOVE any Black people? (I'm curious too).

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:28 / 01.10.06

Sorry, I meant a) - c).

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:28 / 01.10.06

PW, will you please--for the love of all that's holy--drop the appallingly repetative "I know you are but what am I?" thing and either

a) address the fairly reasonable points made by other posters

or

b) get a bit of shut-eye, have a nice solid breakfast, and then address the fairly reasonable points made by other posters.

Please? Pleasey please OK?

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:31 / 01.10.06

As soon as the drugged, crazy, and race insinuations stop; I'll stop. Kapeesh?

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:34 / 01.10.06

Actually, I think there's a case to be made for banning PW based purely on his repeated and trollish attempts to paint people who don't worship his balls as racists. I mean, what the fuck is that about?

Incidentally, PW, you behaved as if Randy had said that your friend (who you must have descended on - a mixed-race Northerner! Bonus Pokemon points for the Stoke Newington trustafarian massive!) here

You behaved as if I had said that I knew what everyone thought in this Private Message:

Plus, I like you Haus. You're smarter than me. I've told you this, over and over. But stay out of my mind. If you want to know what I feel and think, ask. I may tell you. And how could you possibly know what everyone around here is thinking, eh? Are you commnicating about me behind my back or are you omniscient or none of the above?

You behaved as if I had told you to leave Barbelith in this Private Message:

I will no longer respond to you, Haus. You are rude and condescending to people of other cultures. But you are blind to your own faults. I cannot help you SEE anymore.

You might need to listen to some Gil Scott Heron or (Little) Esther. Your soul is obviously hurting and (believe it or not) it's not me who's sticking the sword in.

Good bye and fair ye well.

I aint leaving Barbelith.

Not only do you not appear to read other people's posts, you appear not to read your own.

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:36 / 01.10.06

Oh, and there is another aspect of context that the wonderfully impartial and intelligent Hausey forgot; one that is VERY important: Time.

e.g. when I typed...

"Look up TUP. And then check out my new threads. I put it on for you. Because I'm sick of fighting in these firty old clothes. I'll even take 'em off if you will do likewise. We both stink right now; and it's turning into another bear-wrestle already."

.... it was soonafter I started my recent thread in Conversation.

So, can you see how I've been complementing Haus throughout that exchange and yet he has still been insisting that he knows how I read, what I've read, what my mental state is, what "other" factors are influencing my perceptions?

Can you see beyond the Haus rules?

Tryphena Absent

23:36 / 01.10.06

You know your attitude in this thread means I'm going to have to skip any editing decisions too.

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:39 / 01.10.06

Good. I'd rather someone who treated me with respect did that job.

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:40 / 01.10.06

It should by now go without saying that I have no idea what the Hell PW is trying to communicate with his links to a thread about chess players going to the toilet. It is clearly very important in his personal cosmology, as he links to it in the "Policy Requests" thread as well, but what on Earth it is supposed to mean remains obscure.

Since we won't get a comprehensible answer out of him, answers on a postcard?

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:42 / 01.10.06

Give me your address, Birthday Boy?

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:47 / 01.10.06

PW, I don't think you're helping your case here.

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:50 / 01.10.06

I didn't realise "my case" needed helping. So far, you've just been an insensitive person who is arrogant enough to believe you know what I'm thinking or that Gil Scott Heron can't teach you a thing or three about your assumptions.

So, you don't want a postcard then?

Tryphena Absent

23:50 / 01.10.06

No, he's trolling. Perhaps you'd like to link to the bit where I show you no respect PW?

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:54 / 01.10.06

I think you remember, Nina. The bit where you couldn't take me seriously; where I had to argue for a thread to stay where it was and not be moved to Conversation where it would deteriorate into mirth (a bit like the 'One Web Day' thread). At the time that thread was titled "Racism?". It has since been changed by moderators.

Tryphena Absent

23:57 / 01.10.06

Yes, of course, when you refuse to explain why you don't want a thread moved it's the other person who is showing no respect.

paranoidwriter waves hello

23:59 / 01.10.06

Nina, I think you need to read that thread again. With less militant eyes, maybe?

Tryphena Absent

23:59 / 01.10.06

Requiring people to object thoroughly rather than half-heartedly is just so disrespectful.

paranoidwriter waves hello

00:01 / 02.10.06

Haus, from earlier; for the record: I was a little taken aback by the idea that I could become culturally sensitive by listening to some Gil Scott-Heron

Shocking, isn't it?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:02 / 02.10.06

Thread.

Of.

PAIN.

Tryphena Absent

00:02 / 02.10.06

I'm sorry PW, a few weeks ago, before the amount of bullshit you've spouted at people here, I might have cared but right now I just think you're a troll. Trolls talk about houmous and smoking when they want a thread to be severely edited, trolls post unrelated links in Policy threads and trolls make cryptic generalisations that insult people. You Are A Troll.

ONLY NICE THINGS

00:07 / 02.10.06

Just like Modzero, now, I think.

OK, what's our next step here? It doesn't seem like dialogue is going to work here, and PW's catalogue of largely imaginary grievances is now so thick as to justify essentially any behaviour on his part, be it ever so trollsome.

The Policy can't continue to be bindweeded like this, and it isn't fair on those who contribute value to Barbelith either to have to ignore this constant stream of abuse or to waste the time they might otherwise be able to spend writing about things they and other people might find interesting having to try to calm down someone who pretty clearly doesn't actually want to calm down - see here for his latest attempt to spin an argument out of nothing.

So, since this thread has turned pretty much into an object lesson on why PW's behaviour is bad for Barbelith, I'm looking for solutions. There are a couple of suggestions bouncing around at the moment. One is banning, one is some sort of exclusion from Policy on pain of banning. I'm pretty sure that this status quo cannot be maintained, and the best and easiest option, requiring as it does PW actually to start listening and trying to engage at the level of the grown-ups, seems an increasingly distant possibility. That's really sad, and I can't really understand why it should be the case, but there's not a lot any of us can do about it - I think at this point every avenue of constructive engagement has been exhausted. I would very much like to be proven wrong...

So, people - suggestions? I'd like to get a bit of a discussion going before we think about bringing Tom in on this one.

paranoidwriter waves hello

00:45 / 02.10.06

Tell you what let's cut to the chase, eh?

Tom, may I respectfully ask: what do you think about all this?

*

01:02 / 02.10.06

Suggestion:

Lock this thread. Start a new one, or top one of the ban threads. Let it run for two days. At the end of that time, ban PW unless one of the following occurs: a genuine resolution from PW to change his behavior and demonstration that he is willing to do so and understands why it's necessary, or a show of board support for his sufferance that outweighs that for his removal.

I know we've done this before and it was painful, but this thread is more painful. I shrivel with humiliation on PW's behalf reading what he's posted here.

Tryphena Absent

01:03 / 02.10.06

PW you have a handful of friends left and I bet half of them aren't even your friend in public. That's because deep down they know that you've been acting like a complete wanker and no one seriously wants to be associated with a petty troll. You're not cutting to the chase, you're just running scared from actual opinion of you because you know that there are a lot of people here who think you fucking suck right now.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

01:07 / 02.10.06

Has he done the part where he's the court jester/coyote/kid from "The Emperor's New Clothes" yet? Because my bingo card is nearly full.

02:22 / 02.10.06

This is really bizarre behaviour. In the space of a week, pw has morphed from a desperate tryhard to an aggressive spouter of nonsensical and deeply annoying syllogisms. I preferred the previous version, and think either a) the suit has been hacked or b) he actually is smoking crack.

Or, as the new pw might have it: "Hack or crack?

Look up [irrelated concept] + [spurious abuse/accusations] + [attempt at clever clever unpicking of logic e.g. 'I said I'd a smoke, but it was only a snout']" In any case, as it stands, the suit has gone totally batshit insane and is clearly not a healthy thing to have around. Please, to the airlock, asap.

02:45 / 02.10.06

I think it's getting pretty hard to argue that PW isn't trolling now. And I think his claim to be 'counting coup' is telling.
I really wish that some people would come forward to defend PW. As things stand, It's hard not to judge the heroism of his current campaign as anything other than suicidally misguided.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

05:59 / 02.10.06

As everyone is no doubt aware, when the BBC ran a massive competition to find out what was everyone's favourite book the resounding winner was Transformers: Time War by Simon Furman and Marvel UK. In the final chapter of that we see Galvatron killing Megatron before crushing Optimus Prime with a boulder, only... wait! It turns out that Galvatron is now completely mental and being easily beaten up by Optimus because he's busy fighting a battle that exists only in his head.

I rather feel that this is what is going on here. Clearly we aren't privy to the whole story, but reading this thread, and indeed the recent threads elsewhere and it seems to fit: PW resists explaining his behaviour except in terms that make no sense, complains about other people 'reading his mind', is concerned about someone (presumably) malevolent finding him by finding his friend who lives in North London, believes his requests for moderation should be passed because it's him damnit, is fixated on Haus as the architect of his woes and anyone who disagrees with PW is a catspoor of Haus.

Haus prints their PM correspondence, only for PW to shout "A-ha! You've missed one!"... and post the first PM that Haus had posted in his message.

So I'm looking to this thread for suggestions how to proceed.

07:06 / 02.10.06

oh my lord...

PW,
you may recall that i was on the same (or a similar) side as you during other "underdog-gy" moments in the policy (33 and DMgate, if i recall corrently). anyway, i just wanted to weigh in with this: you really, really seem to've lost all ability/will to interface with the board with any semblance of reason or goodwill or rationality, at all. actually READ the thread that proceeds this post, and realize that the problem truly is with you. deal with your issues, and stop making such a mess of the board.

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:09 / 02.10.06

This is a good idea. There's no way this isn't a good idea.

Sorry, did I say "idea"? I think I meant to say "oh, dear".

08:05 / 02.10.06

I really wish that some people would come forward to defend PW. As things stand, It's hard not to judge the heroism of his current campaign as anything other than suicidally misguided.

Hrm. Was a bit busy over the weekend so kind of missed this entire incident.

PW,

Speaking as someone who feels they get on rather well with you and doesn't generally feel that your contributions to threads (outside of Policy certainly) are damaging to Barbelith, I'm a bit concerned dude. This current discussion has not presented you in a particularly good light, and currently all you are doing is adding fuel to the fire.

I personally feel that talk of banning is premature. Whilst this current sidestep into trollish behaviour (sorry PW but I have to call it what it is, but bear in mind that does not mean I consider you a troll) reflects really badly on you, I have always found that you are willing to actually discuss these things in a reasonable way, and I'm not sure why that's suddenly changed.

Perhaps stepping back from the Policy threads for a while might be an idea. It can get a little serious in here, and maybe all that's needed is to just spend a month having some fun rather than getting riled up.

As I say, I get on with you. I don't want to see you booted over an argument that's gone septic. I feel there is a certain level of "Clash of the Personalities" to this as much as anything else.

If you want to discuss this via PM then feel free.

08:37 / 02.10.06

So, people - suggestions? I'd like to get a bit of a discussion going before we think about bringing Tom in on this one.

Afraid I can't avoid bringing Tom into it, but he's the only one with any powers beyond those of moderators. Discussion and dialogue have failed, promises elicted to change behaviour have failed and any future promises will doubtless go the same route, so I think the only option is to contact Tom. Tom has suspended suits before and entered into dialogue with them (Zoemancer being the last one, I think). This might be a good halfway house here.

Personally, I'd favour a permanent ban, as a) he's trolling and he knows it and b) think PW's chances of adding much of worth to the board are non-existent, but not everyone is going to agree.

09:15 / 02.10.06

Banning certainly looks inevitable if the same behaviour continues. But is it possible that pw is going through some real life troubles (not that I'm saying this excuses anything) and that he might snap out of this pattern?

*shrug* I'm being wildly optimistic, I realise, since I also hoped that this thread might give him a chance to take stock. And I wasn't entirely, 100%, completely right with that guess.

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