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Conflict and complaint thread

 
  

Page: 123(4)56789... 13

 
 
illmatic
12:22 / 02.10.06
I suspect PW knows very well he is trolling - his attempts to get people to agree with him completely have failed, thus linking to newspaper articles, failing to actually address posts directed to him etc. I think it's calculated to annoy. I suspect he's seeing how much he can get away with before he gets fired out the Ban Cannon.

Regrettably, I think the answer might be "quite a lot".
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
12:22 / 02.10.06
Why SHOULDN'T other people question your mental health? I just miss the old paranoidwriter..

He's still here. Just getting older and (hopefully) wiser by the nano-second.

I have only used "ignore" once: to see what the screen looked like. I chose someone who hadn't posted for a while, at (almost) random. I didn't like it. Looked shit. So I turned it "off".

How about you lot? Been ignoring anyone lately?
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
12:24 / 02.10.06
"Bann Cannon"

That made me laugh. Top phrase. I'm stealing that one, like a Magpie. Thanks.

 
 
electric monk
12:31 / 02.10.06
PW, I've got to be honest with you here. I'm finding your posts stomach-churning and altogether unhelpful. The increasing levels of aggression, rudeness and bewildering statements, the constant promises to take a break without the expected follow-through, the demands(!) made for moderation and information, the apparent lack of engagement with what others post... It's all gotten to be too too much. If it were up to me and me alone, you'd be out on your ear. But then I'm tough as nails, twice as pointy, and heartless to a fault.

Sooooo... Seeing as others have some hope that you might come around and be a worthwhile contributor again, I'm willing to make you an offer.

PM me your password and login. I will change your password and, after a week, will change it back. This'll give you some time away from posting on Barbelith (which I don't think you'll give yourself, based on past behavior) and allow you to think about how you might go about things differently. I think you need some time away from here. I truly do.

And before you even start: Yes, I've made a joke along these lines once before, with Shadowsax. That was playful poo-throwing. This is a serious offer, borne of the last bits of my goodwill toward you.
 
 
illmatic
12:35 / 02.10.06
Following Haus's post above, could people stick a vote below for what they'd like to happen. This is assuming PW doesn't suddenly start engaging in a markedly different fashion, apologising and listening to his critics or that he doesn't take himself off a voluntary basis for a lengthy period of time. The options are based on what's technically possibly at present.

1) Permanent ban of PW
2) Suspension of PW
3) Beginning a spin off thread discussing full reasons for banniation, retreading a lot of the territory here. Options to be rasied and voted on in thread.
4) Continued attempts to reason/argue with PW in this and other Policy threads and via PM.

I think I've covered all the options. Please add if I haven't.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
12:39 / 02.10.06
I'll add

5) A ban of pw from the Policy, necessarily policed by the mods etc.

My vote is for number 2, a suspension for something like three months.
 
 
illmatic
12:41 / 02.10.06
If we go with 5), mods are going to have to delete all his posts "by hand" as it were. Technically possible, yes, so it's an option, but a bit time-consuming.

I'm with 2) also.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:46 / 02.10.06
I think the only way to get (5) working would be if, as soon as PW posted to the Policy, Tom was notified and closed down his suit. It wouldn't be matter of "deleting as we go"m, but "one strike and you're out". Obviously, we'd have to have the bannination discussion first on that one.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:49 / 02.10.06
Now, PW - this is, I think, the last time I will actually address you in this thread, as it has proven largely unproductive.

I'd like to do something in the hope that you will, in your belief that we are somehow equal contributors to Barbelith, imitate it. I am going to acknowledge fault. It was unwise of me to refer to your habit of collecting multiracial friends in terms of Pokemon. It was a reference to toksik, himself riffing on your slightly jaw-dropping statement, referenced here> This would not have happened if you were not a) in the habit of using your non-white friends as bargaining chips to try to win arguments, b) calling people racist for no reason except personal animosity and c) telling people to listen to Gil Scott-Heron, as if you were the only white boy ever to be allowed into the sacred brotherhood of people who have listened to Gil Scott-Heron. I find all of these habits patronising, tokenistic and, ultimately, offensive. However, it was a mistake to treat what is a serious issue so lightly. It was also a mistake to call you a trustafarian - this was an unfair inference from the behavioural tics of your previous "some of my best friends are"gasm.

I was going to apologise for asking, rhetorically (yes, kids, that _was_ rhetoric), if you were on crack, but actually I don't think that was unfair. The original mistake - that I assumed by having a smoke that you meant weed - was an honest one, and might have explained this bizarre trollspurt. Your subsequent obsessive attempts to "prove" that I was drunk on Friday night are rather self-defeating, since even had I drunk a bathtub of vodka to the dregs there is still not one person in this thread who has suggested for a moment that my Private Messages to you were incomprehensible, or indeed were less comprehensible than yours. Quite the reverse, in fact. However, I will apologise for sinking to that level again with the crack crack, not to you but to the rest of Barbelith, as it gave you another metal plate to weld to your victarmour.

Now, I have just admitted fault. An awful lot of people in this thread have asked you, an awful lot of times, whether an awful lot of things you have said recently have been wise, well-advised, not trolling and so on. So far, you appear largely to have ignored these questions, responded to them with wild tangents or just flat-out insulted the people who have asked them. Are you going to try to take on board and respond civilly to their concerns, and indeed try to amend your behaviour? Or are you going to keep insisting that everyone else is completely wrong and that you are completely right, and thus that any way you choose to behave is totally justified, you refuse to accept that anyone else on Barbelith who disagrees with this has any validity and that moderators should just step back, unless they are rubber-stamping your own edits, and let you do whatever you want?

I don't expect an answer to any of these questions, or at least not a useful one, but I would like you to think about them. And, if it's not too late, maybe you could start to try to work back to a gentle simmer. The link you posted to your first ever thread was saddening reminder that there was a time when you communicated in paragraphs, attempted to make some connection between what you and other people were saying, and didn't... well, didn't troll. If your login survives this week, there's profit in trying to do that again.
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:34 / 02.10.06
I think (1) would be inappropriate at this stage unless Barbelith is suddenly going to be showing a lot less patience with members percieved to be a problem. Normally when someone suggests a quick ban someone else generally suggests further discussion before rapid-response banning is brought in as policy.

I'm not happy with (2) either. This incident is the first indicator I have heard that anyone considers PW's Policy contributions to be worthless or unhelpful. I'd need to know what sort of duration the suspension would be before supporting or opposing it.

(3) and (4) are much of a muchness. I don't personally feel PW's done enough to be banned, so I don't feel that a "trial-thread" will achieve much. Further discussion is only going to work if PW decides to stop mirroring (what ve percieves as) aggressive posting styles and discuss the situation, and his critics perhaps tone down their posts a touch as well.

(5) is going to be reliant on whether or not PW feels calls for him to stop posting in Policy (temp or perm) are justified.

Obviously, being a wishy-washy type I'd rather we all had a group hug and chilled out. But it's just as obviously gone a little too far for that now.

If punishment is going to be applied then I would prefer to see a temporary suspension (2) rather than banning.
 
 
Quantum
13:43 / 02.10.06
Not as punishment, more like going for a walk rather than continuing to fight over nothing. I don't want to punish PW, I just want him to stop spamming the policy.

This incident is the first indicator I have heard that anyone considers PW's Policy contributions to be worthless or unhelpful.

I can make a list with links if you like, it's been going on for a while but has intensified recently to the point where I wanted to lock the entire Policy forum. Or nuke it from orbit. It's been a factor in driving people from the board, I'd say that was serious enough to demand action.
 
 
illmatic
13:51 / 02.10.06
I can make a list with links if you like

That might be useful, Quants. I'd do it myself but I just don't have time.
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:52 / 02.10.06
Nah, your word's good enough for me Quants.

PW, would you be willing to leave Policy alone for a month or so? Not under threat of banhammer or anything but just not post/read? A month's not so long, and maybe time'll give everyone a bit of perspective.
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:52 / 02.10.06
First part X-posted with Pegs.
 
 
illmatic
13:55 / 02.10.06
He's been directly asked to, has promised to do so, I think three times so far. In every case, he's been back within 48 hours, if not sooner. I don't feel he's someone whose promise would mean a great deal.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
14:00 / 02.10.06
If that condition were met and agreed to it would have to be under the very strictest understanding that posting of Policy related/relevant material is not undertaken in any of the other fora. This would be inclusive of any references to events that have transpired in the Policy, inclusive of those whose occurence is under debate.

Any disengagement on pw's part would be meaningless if another audience is sought on these matters.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:07 / 02.10.06
Oh, I don't know. A thread in Conversation called "Policy Screaming Gym", in which posts to the Policy were cut, pasted and screamed at by PW would be a disturbing thing to see, but it would at least mean that the Policy itself was being kept clear.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:14 / 02.10.06
I believe that we should ban trolls before they rot the entire place. So I know it's hardcore but I choose 1) because of his contribution in this thread, including that delightful last post in which his style also becomes that of an Easton-Ellis troll That made me laugh. Top phrase. I'm stealing that one, like a Magpie. Thanks.

Actually maybe it's more Mike Skinner troll... difficult to say.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
14:15 / 02.10.06
Yes, that'll certainly encourage a break from the behaviour.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
14:17 / 02.10.06
Cross post - above to Haus rather than AdL
 
 
Tom Coates
14:27 / 02.10.06
Okay. So I've been asked for my opinion and here it is for what it's worth. Beforehand, I should repeat that I'm not on Barbelith as much as I should be or used to be. I love it to bits, and I'm glad it exists and I hope it's as useful / important to the rest of you as it has been for me. I just thought it was important to mention that I haven't been following this particular issue since the beginning.

Having said all of that, and having read this thread and a few other threads, I can only agree with the general impression that paranoidwriter is certainly doing him/herself any favours. While I think everyone on the board knows that Haus can be a bit of a terrier, the replies and responses posted here and elsewhere by PW do not seriously engage with the issues and are really only fueling the flames. My advice to paranoidwriter is that at the moment, on the evidence that I've seen on this thread and elsewhere - I wouldn't have much compunction or anxiety if someone were to suggest a ban.

This is a resolvable situation. I don't think that PW's posts here are necessarily representative of his best on the board, and I'd like him to have the opportunity to actually try to seriously engage with the discussion, rather than avoiding the debate or ducking the issues. If he's prepared to do so - openly, honourably and with some humility - then I think the rest of the board needs to hear him out. If he continues to be dismissive of the rest of the board and refuses to clarify his position or behaviour then I'm afraid I'll have to agree with the general board consensus.

It seems to me necessary to start with the assumption that you'll treat other board with respect before any useful discussion can emerge. It seems to me that PW has stopped respecting the rest of the board, and they in turn are losing or have lost respect for him. At a certain point, this path becomes unfixable one way or another. So to PW I say, you need to re-engage with the board now and treat other users with respect in this thread, and to the rest of the board I ask you to give him one final chance to present and respond honourably to what has been said so far. Reasonable?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:28 / 02.10.06
I would wish for number 2, if Tom doesn't want to suspend PW's suit then I'd have to plump for 3. (I don't think 1 is an option, it would have to be 3 followed by 1 if a majority voted in favour). I'm tired that those of us who have tried to extend the hand of friendship have consistently had it shat in.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
14:50 / 02.10.06
Reasonable?

I think so.

I will not post for 24hrs starting from the time this post is posted.

I will then answer questions that are put to me, afresh, in this thread or another, should somebody wish to start one elsewhere.

Hopefully, if these questions are framed with respect; I will respond in kind. Promise. X

I LOVE BARBELITH and I Hate only HATE itself.

If You Let Me Give YOU more Love: I Will. Promise. X


Reasonable?

X
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:53 / 02.10.06
< Starts the stopwatch >
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:57 / 02.10.06
Sorry, could somebody help me out? 127 posts of people trying to engage with PW, and now we all have to repost or start a new thread where, if we are respectful, we might, might have our questions answered? Given PW's so far rather specialised ideas of what constitutes respect?

Got to say, I thought that we were talking about having to ban ParanoidWriter. Turns out we were talking about making him King of Barbelith.

I'm open to suggestions about how we make this work, but right now I'm not seeing anything we haven't seen already here.
 
 
Quantum
15:01 / 02.10.06
http://barbelith.com/topic/25574/from/105#post633087
This is my third retirement announcement of recent times (I think); so this time it must be true, right?
15th September '06

How many times since then I've lost count. I'm going to break from the policy for 24 hours too in solidarity with PW, c'mon, we can do it dude! It's like smoking, easier if you have moral support.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:15 / 02.10.06
Hello PW. I already spoke to you with respect and you shot me down you moron. You'll be fucking lucky. I suggest you PM Kay and Lurid and ask them to help you plaster over the giant hole you made when you kicked the wall out because I believe you can do it yourself like a fish needs a bicycle.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:39 / 02.10.06
Right. I'm honestly unsure what to do for the best, here. PW's decision simultaneously to take 24 hours away _and_ to respond to questions re-asked in a suitably respectful tone (that is, not quite to follow both suggestions made in this thread simultaneously) is, I think, a bit tricky - not least because again it's trying to define what happens next on his terms, and as a result of that this thread might fill up with some less than charitable responses in the intervening time. However, I don't know exactly what one might want to do about that. We could lock this thread and start a new "Questions for Paranoidwriter" thread, thus creating about a sixth thread in the top of the Policy all about the chap, but that might just transfer the posts.

Suggestions? Or do we just let it lie?
 
 
Psi-L is working in hell
15:43 / 02.10.06
Could we not just lock this thread for 24 hours also?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:45 / 02.10.06
And then start a new thread, or have PW start a new thread, in what is now about 23 hours' time? Yeah, possibly. Although I'm also aware that people may well have things they want to say, and should they be prooscribed from saying them just because PW has decided to take a break?
 
 
Lurid Archive
15:46 / 02.10.06
I'd like to vote for waiting a little while, since I don't think that there is a need for urgent action at the moment. I agree with Tom that this is still resolvable, but not if we continue like this. Lets come back in a day or so and see if things can be fixed.
 
 
Psi-L is working in hell
15:48 / 02.10.06
No, I take your point Haus, I certainly don't think we should add to the number of threads discussing PW. I guess I kind of feel that until he actually engages with all the questions in this thread, there's not a lot more that productively can be asked/said by anyone else anyway.
 
 
Smoothly
16:11 / 02.10.06
I agree. I don't think we should lock this thread for the reasons Haus gives. But I think we can ask that people who do have things to say to PW take 24 hours out too. I think ideally we should give PW a chance to take a breath, get his ducks in a row and come back to respond to what's been said here in his own time. I think the whole board could benefit from a ceasefire on this particular front, even if it turns out to be a temporary one.
 
 
grant
16:34 / 02.10.06
Let me just recap what I've read to make sure I understand it all.

1. PW takes 24 hour break from Lith. (Good idea)
2. Other posters (Policy mods, Policy fans, whoever) take 24 hours to not concern their pointy heads with PW.
3. Then, new thread starts somewhere for further dialogue, if deemed necessary. Not necessarily in Policy, but maybe.

Is that about right?

If so, then yes, some kind of clear understanding will have to be reached as to what constitutes "respect" and how the word "troll" is used. I think those would be the first bridges to cross in the notional dialogue thread.
 
 
HCE
16:49 / 02.10.06
Laying off for 24 hrs. Start my clock now, please.
 
  

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