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Conflict and complaint thread

  
  

Page: 12(3)45678... 13

 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
09:57 / 02.10.06
Are people reading ALL that has/is being written around here?

Seriously, who started flinging shit first like an angry chimp? Think about that....


Here's eleven points I'd like to make:

1) The "Racism?" thread was bumped by Miss Wonderstar; re-bumped by Nina; then altered by Haus and/or other mod's.

2) The recent spat in the Moderation Requests Thread (which has also changed titles): was started by a ill-considered and rude comment by Randyo in which ze talked of my "stupidity" and disagreed my sincere request, even though ze obviously dislikes me (I can quote and/or link to more evidence of this if you can't be arsed to read ALL the threads of late) and ze IS biased.

3) This thread was started by Lurid to try to help the situation. Look at Haus' first post here, eh? Look at mine, again.

4) Haus decides he will post our private PM's after all. But he also decides to give a running, condescending, commentary as he does so, and neglects two VERY important elements of Context. i) The subject title of HIS first PM to me, and ii) Time.

5) In this thread and others I have been repeatedly labelled/branded with insulting "White man" labels. Now, how would you like it to be accused of being "a troll", "smoking crack", "crazy", etc, etc. All of which do not apply to ME by the way, and which I suspect reveal more about the accusers than the accused.

6) Have you read all the threads yet before passing judgement on me and my "behaviour" or are you just reading this thread from it's arse-end (and a handful of others) and being faaaaar too quick to paint me as (e.g) the "troll"?

7) Have I NEVER contributed anything positive around here? Do I not help others when I can and try to start cool conversations off about interesting topics? No? Not even as recently as this weekend? If your answer is "no": I think you may need to read more, or it's time some other people started speaking up for a change, rather than those who have known and trusted some of the "mods" here for faaaaar too long.

8) Someone else first invoked Tom and "banning" this weekend, not me. How am I to respond to that meme? I am not scared of being ostracised from a community I love, for merely sticking up for myself and others. I don't want to be banned, but I do not like threats, either.

9) When and why have I used insulting language like "fuck you"? Think about it and read all the ENTIRE threads before you judge me.

10) Gil Scott Heron is a philosopher with more life-experience than Haus. I'd trust Gil Scott-Heron with my wallet, my heart, my thoughts, and my Soul.

11) How many of you have met and had a drink with Haus? How many of you have met me?

12) I am also not a "trustafarian" (another label applied to me in this thread by Haus). And you think that making friends with people of different backgrounds is like "Pokemon"? Sheesh! Haus fancy telling me how you earn your money and make your friends? Also, what's your Religious Back-Story? (See Temple for more information and the appropriate thread)


Oh, and I've received a PM from Tuna Ghost today: the subject title was "Are you serious? I mean, are you fucking mental or something?". Should I even open that message? Should I post it here for you ALL to read, eh?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:18 / 02.10.06
Also, what's your Religious Back-Story? (See Temple for more information and the appropriate thread)

Yes, PW - that was indeed a part of your ongoing cycle of recent obsessive Policy posting. I notice that, while you are still rudely demanding you a Christian? of anyone who uses "Christ" as an exclamation, you have yet actually to find one Christian on Barbelith who wants to stop the use of the word by non-Christians, or indeed presented any evidence of anyone who might possibly find themselves ever reading Barbelith who wants to stop the use of the word by non-Christians, or indeed anyone on the entire planet who wants to stop the use of the word by non-Christians. You've just decided, a propos nothing, to get excitable about this, and then to skip the bit where you relate it to any kind of reality.

Now, we get that you feel that any behaviour that others disagree with on your part is totally justified, and any behaviour that you disagree with on anyone else's part is utterly unjustified. We also get that all the effort you've put into making those multi-racial friends entitles you, inexplicably, to accuse anyone who does not fall in line with you of being a racist.

However. However, you are in a minority of one here who believes that you are behaving in an acceptable fashion. It actually boggles my mind that in the face of that, and the fact that it has now been actually proven that several of the offenses you have used to justify your rudeness are totally fictitious, you are still obsessively advancing the cause of yourself as innocent victim. You're free to do so, of course, but I would really strongly advise thinking about how the dozens of people who have asked you to calm down might be right, rather than hectoring them about how they are wrong. Because the practical upshot of your current trajectory is that you are demanding to be able to do whatever you like (because, of course, utterly justified) and to troll the crap out of anyone who tries to moderate, in a general or specific sense, your behaviour. We've been here before, and it is clearly established that this is not a freedom Barbelith can extend.
 
 
redtara
10:27 / 02.10.06
I would like to agree with WayES sentiments and add that this seems a little like a storm in a tea cup. The impact of trolls is directly proportional to the energy spent telling them that they are trolling. Is ignoring posters who irritate ever used as a serious tool for reducing their impact?

I too quite like the lightness that PW brings to some threads. I understand that a lot of people don't and feel it is particularly unwelcome in the policy. It does seem to one newly arrived (I have only been active on the board since about Feb this year) that the criteria for banning is getting shorter and less serious. This seems a strange line for an anarchist group to be taking.
 
 
The Strobe
10:31 / 02.10.06
All of which do not apply to ME by the way, and which I suspect reveal more about the accusers than the accused.

PW: whilst the words "crazy" and "smoking crack" may not be entirely well judged (and were not, incidentally, spoken by me), I can assure you that you are definitely being a troll. There's almost no doubt of that.

So I'm afraid to say that the word "troll" definitely applies to you.

Also: could you please unpack what you mean by "white man labels". I'm not sure I like the insinuation, but nor do I want to leap to any conclusions, so if you could clarify what you mean, that'd help.

Have I NEVER contributed anything positive around here? Do I not help others when I can and try to start cool conversations off about interesting topics?

The problem is not that you haven't contributed anything positive; I will warrant that, at times, you have. However, your behaviour in the Policy in the past few weeks is outweighing any good you may have done elsewhere.
 
 
illmatic
10:35 / 02.10.06
Okay, as many points as I can stomach.

<1) The "Racism?" thread was bumped by Miss Wonderstar; re-bumped by Nina; then altered by Haus and/or other mod's.

It was rebumped by Kovacs to talk about a post you had made which was borderline racist. I've stated previously that I personally find it offensive, a point you've made no attempt to address. A number of people criticsed you for this. You seem thus far unable to accept any of this criticism, or consider that any of your Interlocutors have a point.

3) This thread was started by Lurid to try to help the situation. Look at Haus' first post here, eh? Look at mine, again.

I've been back and looked. Haus's post seems a fair summary of the situation so far. Yours seems deliberately cryptic and obscure, and grants the two of you an equivalence that isn't justified. Also, please note that teh opening posts make clear this shouldn't be framed in terms of you and Haus. More accurate would be you vs. everyone else on the board.

4) Haus decides he will post our private PM's after all. But he also decides to give a running, condescending, commentary as he does so, and neglects two VERY important elements of Context. i) The subject title of HIS first PM to me, and ii) Time.

I've been back and read them. Again, my reading of them is very different from yours. Context is clear. Time is irrelevant.

5) In this thread and others I have been repeatedly labelled/branded with insulting "White man" labels. Now, how would you like it to be accused of being "a troll", "smoking crack", "crazy", etc, etc. All of which do not apply to ME by the way, and which I suspect reveal more about the accusers than the accused.

You mentioned smoking. It was natural to assume you meant smoking weed, which to be honest, is one of the few things that make sense of your recent behaviour. Ssome of the epithets quoted may not be an exact fit. But "troll" however, certainly is. Your last sentence - again, it's all OUR FAULT. YOU'VE done NOTHING WRONG.

And finally:

Gil Scott Heron is a philosopher with more life-experience than Haus. I'd trust Gil Scott-Heron with my wallet, my heart, my thoughts, and my Soul.

He's not though, is he? He's a musican who's lead a very troubled life. How Haus fails by not actually being him I fail to see. This again seems to be an example of you throwing around ethnicity to prove that you are morally superior to someone else who is white. See also - your use of accent in the above-mentioned racism post, the "but some of my best friends.. " defence etc etc.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:36 / 02.10.06
Anyway, back on topic. I think probably options are:

1) Temporary suspension of the suit, as a "cooling-off" period. (An idea PMed to me)

2) Suspension of suit while Tom tries to communicate with the suit owner and work out whether he can reasonably interact with the board (Illmatic's idea)

3) The suit owner is barred from posting in the Policy for a set time - say, six months - with any infraction of this resulting in an automatic ban. (An idea PMed to me)

4) A banning thread is started, in which the user either:

a) demonstrates an understanding of why the recent problems have been occurring, accepts their responsibility for their role in these problems, and resolves sincerely to avoid engineering such problems in future - quite possibly staying out of the Policy in future as a show of good faith and mental hygeine;
b) is the recipient of a wave of popular support which prevents banning and changes the patterns by which Barbelith behaves
c) is banned with the agreement of a majority of members(Id entity's idea)

5) the suit owner heads off the need for any of the above by becoming willing to enter into baseline socially functional conversation, becomes conscious of the impossibility of the Barbesphere continuing to absorb his recent levels of pollution, expresses sincere contrition and, again, probably undertakes voluntarily to stay out of the Policy for the foreseeable future.

6) As (5), but the suit owner resolves to take time out of Barbelith until whatever forces, internal or external, that are causing the current bahaviour abate.

Any others? For whatever reason, undertakings to leave Barbelith/Policy don't seem to be _sticking_, so without an understanding of why these problems are occurring, I don't think we could expect any absence to last beyond the usual 24 hours. Depending on how committed people are to the therapeutic narrative, somebody could try to talk him through where the wheels appeared to come off (Dead Megatron's birthdaypalooza onwards, I think), but I don't think on current form he's likely to listen to me and I couldn't ask anyone else to put the energy in for such a questionable reward - although we'd probably have to recap the whole thing in a banning thread, anyway...
 
 
illmatic
10:40 / 02.10.06
I too quite like the lightness that PW brings to some threads. I understand that a lot of people don't and feel it is particularly unwelcome in the policy.

Redtara: Go back and read all of his contribtions to one of the linked threads. Just one. And then come back and tell me if you have the same opinion. I cannot see how his contribtuions can be described as "lightness". His posts are the the exact opposite, in fact, they're the are the equivalent of concrete boots, and are snarling up an important part of the board.

This seems a strange line for an anarchist group to be taking.

Barbelith is in no way an anarchist group, and it never has been. Big misconception on your part.
 
 
illmatic
10:43 / 02.10.06
Is 3) technically possible? I thought a ban or suspension was only an all board option.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
10:45 / 02.10.06
paranoidwriter you are being unreasonable. I've no idea what you're thinking.
You seem like a decent person, kind to others and often with a funny turn of phrase.
The last few months though you've been excruciating.

I suggest you turn off your computer and go out somewhere. Have a long walk. Catch a movie. Or something.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:46 / 02.10.06
Oh, and redtara - I'm not sure how many bannings you've seen since February of this year (nor exactly how your statement that you have only been active on the board since February of this year tallies with your statement that you were active on the board five years or so ago), but there's a thread which I think could happily be nudged towards the question of what people are banned for, here. Some evidence-supported contributions to that would be very welcome.

Oh, and I don't think it says in the literature that we're an anarchist group, although a number of us are anarchists.

Pegs: It isn't possible in the Board software. It would be a matter of saying "if you post in the Policy, Tom will be contacted and you will be banned", basically. I don't know if it would be fair to expect that amount of self-control, but it's not going to work on an honour system alone, as has already been tried, and I think that if PW is going to stay a) on Barbelith and b) remotely happy on Barbelith, he's going to have to restrain himself from posting in the Policy for a fair chunk of time.
 
 
illmatic
10:50 / 02.10.06
BTW, Redtara, that isn't meant to seem as rude as it probably sounds. The board isn't committed to any specific ideology (though obviously there's some biases).

Barbelith broke with the Invisbles/anarchist thing a long time ago - a good thing as far as I'm concerned. I'm a Temple Mod and occasionally we have people turning up there, hoping to start an Invislbes cell and save the world. The normal advice given is to focus on something a bit more practical.
 
 
Quantum
11:00 / 02.10.06
Here's eleven points I'd like to make:

'kinhell. I support option 1) temp suspension. As you have promised to stop posting many times and are unable, PW, perhaps you want some help taking some time out? To run with your posts-as-food metaphor, we can lock the cookie jar if it will help. I feel at the moment you are whipping yourself and the board into a hysterical mob out to lynch you, just stop posting for a while, and if you can't would you object to a voluntary suspension? Say a couple of weeks? As mentioned, go for a walk, catch a movie etc. come back in time for the run up to Halloween when everyone's calmer, and everyone's happy.
Or, keep piling on the posts, get everyone riled and then get banned forever as a troll. If that's what you prefer, maybe you think it's better to go out with a bang than a whimper etc. Ask yourself, what would Gil do?
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
11:02 / 02.10.06
Is 3) technically possible? I thought a ban or suspension was only an all board option.

Not possible by technology and such a measure would have to be actively policed. Furthermore, regardless of any content infracting posts, it would necessarily have to be policed rather agressively to avoid attempts at brinksmanship.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:02 / 02.10.06
I broke with the "kovacs" thing a long time ago, ditto.
 
 
Olulabelle
11:05 / 02.10.06
That's a good idea PW. We could suspend your suit for an agreed time and then you can come back when the time had passed. How does that sound to you? Would that help do you think?

I think it might work, since you yourself recognise you have a problem with posting, which is why I presume you set yourself posting limits very much within the board ones. (I believe the board ones are forty posts a day? Anyone, is that correct?)
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
11:10 / 02.10.06
At this stage, without other options being explored, I cannot support a course of action that lead to banning. It may have, on occasion, been to the detriment of the board that a policy exists that banning is, and always has been, a last resort. However, this is the current ethos of the board.

Maybe it is a tad entish of be to suggest this but a fundamental change in policy should not be undertaken without rigourous and lengthy discussion.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:15 / 02.10.06
redtara I too quite like the lightness that PW brings to some threads.

Agreed. Unfortunately, a 'lightness' isn't really the way to describe his contributions to the policy over the last month or two. Go and look at his continued arguing against people using 'Christ' as an exclamation not on his own behalf but a group of people who don't appear to exist on barbelith.


I understand that a lot of people don't and feel it is particularly unwelcome in the policy.

It's his inability to let a subject drop that has caused the problem, which has now morphed into believing Haus and Randy are out to silence him.

It does seem to one newly arrived (I have only been active on the board since about Feb this year)

I should just point out this doesn't matter. You're here, you have a voice, excelsior!

that the criteria for banning is getting shorter and less serious.

I would say that this perception may be due to the fact the conversation about banning PW is less than serious at the moment. And banning him would in fact involve expanding our criteria, as I don't think we've ever banned someone on the grounds of their making one forum unworkable.

This seems a strange line for an anarchist group to be taking.

Ummm, we're not an anarchist group. There may be anarchists on here but that's neither a definition of the whole of us or how we work. If we were there wouldn't be moderators or arguments about whether someone should be banned. One former anarchist on the board got so pissed off that she launched her own board with 'no rules'. I think it lasted 8 days before she had to shut it down.
 
 
illmatic
11:16 / 02.10.06
At this stage, without other options being explored

What other options are there, which haven't been explored? All any of us can do is engage in dialogue via thread or PM. This clearly hasn't worked.

I cannot support a course of action that lead to banning

Well, I can! Banning or suspension seems the best option to me. I really can't think of anything else.
 
 
illmatic
11:19 / 02.10.06
Haus's options 5 or 6 might spring into existence, of course, but I doubt it.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:20 / 02.10.06
Paranoidwriter: 4) Haus decides he will post our private PM's after all.

After you gave him permission here.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
11:24 / 02.10.06
What would "help" me is if some of you stop asssuming I am "a troll", "crazy", on "crack", "skunk", etc.

I would also REALLY appreciate it if people stopped insulting others and being impolite. But that's a general thing. Like poor Mr Abdo (see another thread for more info, I not going to keep providing links if you don't appear to be reading them, properly).

I would also appreciate a complement or three. I liked Triplets post, for example, in the Barbequotes thread. Seemed genuine to me. He even called me "parawriter" which I think is an indication he may no longer think I'm all that "paranoid". Nice. Cheers, comrade, I really liked that.

I would also appreciate it if some moderators had their powers frozen for a while, and if the others took greater care in their mod' decisions; or if they did not know what was "right" to do, to merely not vote at all and think a bit more.

I would also appreciate a copy of the "Racism?" thread in all it's drafts and states. This would help me a great deal, I think. But I understand this is probably impossible, and would not happen anyway. I'm not even sure if it would be right of me to be able to read all those changes and their "reasons" without the permissions of all those concerned.

Right now, I'm listening to (Little) Esther Phillips. She helps; a lot; always. She is a worthy Legend to invoke for support and Love. Bless her.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
11:30 / 02.10.06
Demanding of complements (compliments I presume) is the very height of arrogance. What, precisely, is it that you have done that warrants a compliment, save the recent barbequote?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:36 / 02.10.06
I would also appreciate a copy of the "Racism?" thread in all it's drafts and states. This would help me a great deal, I think.

Why, exactly? What vital information do you believe might have been edited out?
 
 
Quantum
11:36 / 02.10.06
And why don't you respond to what people write? It's most frustrating. Here's a redux of my position for you PW;

Take a break. If you can't do that, allow your suit to be locked for a couple of weeks like putting a padlock on the cookie jar. Otherwise you're heading for an implosion and subsequent banning, betcha.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
11:42 / 02.10.06
I'm not really seeing the link to "Poor" Mr. Abdo other than like his inability to recognise the burden of responsibility involved with driving and therefore causing accidents, you are incapable of recognising the burden of responsibiity associated with posting in a social forum and causing damage.

He was rightly banned from driving for five years. Would you like the correlation to be extended even further?
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
11:46 / 02.10.06
Really? Hmmm.... I need to check my sources, again.

The day I linked to that BBC NEWS website article Mr Abdo had just received a "two year suspended jail sentence".

Back in a bit...
 
 
Psi-L is working in hell
11:49 / 02.10.06
Not to sound too school marmish here pw, but I want don't get.

In case you've still failed to notice what lots of posters have tried to convey to you over quite a long time now, we can all only ever judge you on the merit of your posts. Thus if you post things worthy of compliments, you get them. If however you don't write things worthy of compliments, you'll get the opposite...kinda of like what's happening now.

Failing to engage with questions posed to you is, quite simply put, rude, not to mention an infuriating and unproductive way of trying to resolve a difficult situation amicably which, I believe, is what all of the posters in this thread are trying to do. Why then you expect anyone to give you a compliment is beyond me. I would heed those posters suggesting that you take a break and come back fresh to this, before you back yourself into a corner from which you'll struggle to return.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:49 / 02.10.06
No! Not "back in a bit from reading tangentally related news story"! Back in a bit from reading the thread and at least attempting to answer some of the points raised here, for example re: accusations and the unfoundedness of same. Back in a bit with the calm and the rational engagment! Please!
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
11:56 / 02.10.06
In the interests of saving time.

A man who drove the wrong way down the M4 for nearly eight miles has been given a two year suspended jail term.
Ali Abdo, 68, originally from Yemen, was also banned from driving for five years at Swindon Crown Court.

Hopefully that will be an end of your attempts to avoid the issues at hand.
 
 
The Strobe
11:58 / 02.10.06
What would "help" me is if some of you stop asssuming I am "a troll", "crazy", on "crack", "skunk", etc.

Third time round, PW.

I've already explained: assuming you're on "crack" or "skunk" or are "crazy" might not help matters, but people are trying to rationalise your increasingly peculiar behaviour.

But. But, but, but.

We are not "assuming" you are a troll. We are trying to tell you that you have become one. Whether you like it or not, that's what you are. You're walking like a troll and quacking like a troll. It doesn't matter if you don't think you are, because we only go on how you're presenting. And whilst we can only hazard a guess at the reasoning behind this behaviour, we can tell you for certain what your behaviour resembles. It resembles a troll. We're getting sick of it.

That's about the third time I've explained that, and certainly the most elaborate. Because you've ignored my comments so far, I'm now going to ask a question, which I'd appreciate a response to: do you understand what I'm saying?
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
11:59 / 02.10.06
Ah...So... Appears I was correct, for once... Almost... 'twas a "two year suspended jail term" [my italics], eh?

Here's the Barbelith link to where you can find out about how "Mr Hammond" was treated in comparison to "Abdo". It's very interesting reading, in my humble opinion (and yes: I really don't think my shit is gold. Promise. This has hurt me a great deal, but I'm still trying to see it all as coming from a place called Love; which is hard at times, but actually REALLY HELPS! )
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
12:04 / 02.10.06
I can only apologise for fuelling the onslaught of avoidance and irrelevance.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:08 / 02.10.06
I would also REALLY appreciate it if people stopped insulting others and being impolite. But that's a general thing. Like poor Mr Abdo (see another thread for more info, I not going to keep providing links if you don't appear to be reading them, properly).


Actually, Mr. Abdo is a pretty good example. PW does not appear to have noticed that Mr. Abdo caused several high-speed accidents by driving the wrong way down a motorway at 80 miles per hour, despite thinking he was driving in the right direction. He's just focused on how mean the courts were (in fact, he was banned from driving for five years and given a two-year suspended sentence, presumably to dissuade him from further careless driving). PW has utterly ignored the people who were traumatised and could have been killed as a result of Mr. Abdo becoming confused and hurtling at speed in totally the wrong direction.

To extend the metaphor, PW has, by haring off in entirely the wrong direction and the mistaken belief that he is going the right way and everyone else in the thoroughfare is wrong, caused pile-ups across the Policy. This thread might be seen as an attempt by traffic police to flag him down. So far, this is not having a lot of success - to be told that you are in danger of being banned for trolling and react by demanding that people give you compliments suggests...

Well.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:15 / 02.10.06
And now, having got the newspaper thing (which I have no idea what it's for, other than Exibit K in an imaginary court case where PW proves that he is not a racist rather than addressing the fact that some of his comments might actually have really offended real people) out of the way, we now come to the rational engagment and the answering of questions.

Yes?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:18 / 02.10.06
PW is not responding to me so I suspect has me on ignore, but if not:

You expect to have any and all your moderation requests passed automatically, which no other member gets,
You expect to be given a list of all moderation requests for a certain time period, which no other member gets,
You expect to be given a copy of a particular thread along with a list of all changes, which I'm not sure is even possible but if it were, no other member gets,
You believe there is a conspiracy against you when in fact most people are trying to account for your behaviour,
You misremember facts and then ignore being corrected on them,
You constantly bring in unconnected links as though they somehow prove whatever argument you are trying to make,

Why SHOULDN'T other people question your mental health? I just miss the old paranoidwriter...
 
  

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