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Conflict and complaint thread

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18:05 / 04.10.06

Refusing to argue your case, engage with anyone else and prefering just to state annoying stuff that aggravates everyone else is the definition of trolling.

I think that where there's evidence that this behaviour is recent, in a relatively long-term poster who's previously been able to engage in a more functional, non-aggravating way, it's harder to dismiss it wholly as trolling. When there's a perceived change from more adaptive default behaviour, that change may be temporary - and temporary measures are arguably better than absolute banning.

19:07 / 04.10.06

I don't know about that mate, I've found his policy contributions almost wholly negative and self-serving from the get go. Elsewhere on the board aside, I don't think his contributions here have marked any suddenly decline. He was a fucking awful pain in the bum in Policy for months and I'm glad he's gone.

19:17 / 04.10.06

There are all sorts of other things that could potentially influence a previously non-trollish individual's posting style for days or weeks at a time. Depression. Bereavement. Too much grass. A convergence of stressful life events. Etc., etc. Where the change appears to have happened relatively suddenly, it's perhaps more likely that Something Has Happened - and, by extension, that the run of antagonistic or incoherent posting may be a temporary aberration.

You see, I don't think the change has happened relatively suddenly. Perhaps up a notch in irritation but that's about it. The last 48 hours or so okay, his posting style became very different, but I think this was because a lot of people were focusing on him, rather than solely Haus. Rather than a) concede people might have a point in their irritation or b) continue to argue the toss, I think he took option c), start spurting a load of trollish non-sequiters. I might be wrong but that's how I'm reading his behaviour. I just don't buy the "something went wrong with PW's brane" idea.

19:20 / 04.10.06

I'd disagree, Pegs. I'm not talking about being irritating or self-serving; I'm talking about coherence, boundaries and ability to engage, on-board and in PMs. I noticed a recent change, and I'm not the only one. I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate that Something Might Have Happened to bring about a deterioration, and that that Something might be temporary.

19:25 / 04.10.06

That really isn't how I read it at all. He's never seemed to me to much of an ability to engage or accept critque, at least in Policy thread. All that seems to have happened recently is him getting more and more fixated on Haus, as most trolls tend to.

Anyway, as I said, I might be wrong.

19:33 / 04.10.06

You might be. As might I.

I've enjoyed a reasonably cordial PM correspondence with PW. However irritated people might be with him on-board, he's always been able to write lucid, coherent PMs which indicate an understanding of and engagement with the subject matter. That changed, latterly, and as I say, I'm not the only person who noticed this and was concerned by it. This throws up at least the possibility that, whatever others think, there might be factors other than conscious wilful attention-seeking at play - and, while that's a possibility, I think "trolling" is an inadequate and somewhat dismissive 'explanation'.

19:44 / 04.10.06

G: E Randy, alcohol is one example. There are all sorts of other things that could potentially influence a previously non-trollish individual's posting style for days or weeks at a time. Depression. Bereavement. Too much grass. A convergence of stressful life events. Etc., etc. Where the change appears to have happened relatively suddenly, it's perhaps more likely that Something Has Happened - and, by extension, that the run of antagonistic or incoherent posting may be a temporary aberration.

Sorry, I was being flippant. But

This is why I think we should have the option of temporary measures

we don't have that option. It was, for me, ban or allow the meltdown to continue, dragging the board down even futher and potentially causing others to leave because of his continued presence. Very much the lesser of two evils.

There was history here - it wasn't the first time that PW had become a bit... broken... because he believed he was in the right and every single other person was in the wrong, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Also, wrt Tom's last post, I'm fairly sure that there's history where stupid threats of legal action are concerned, too.

19:53 / 04.10.06

we don't have that option. It was, for me, ban or allow the meltdown to continue, dragging the board down even futher and potentially causing others to leave because of his continued presence. Very much the lesser of two evils.

I've agreed with that - but emphasised that I think we need more "evils" at our disposal.

There was history here - it wasn't the first time that PW had become a bit... broken... because he believed he was in the right and every single other person was in the wrong, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Also, wrt Tom's last post, I'm fairly sure that there's history where stupid threats of legal action are concerned, too.

I think the phrase "a bit... broken" is somewhat loaded here, and also assumes a particular motivation ("because he believed...") which isn't necessarily a motivation. I say again: there was a noticeable and relatively sudden decline latterly in PW's correspondence behind-the-scenes as well as on-board, and that's never happened before, certainly not to the same degree and as consistently. That, to me, constitutes a reasonably sudden change rather than he-was-always-like-that badness - and makes me reluctant to accept "trolling" as wholly explanatory of the situation.

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:01 / 04.10.06

OK - so, I generally feel that it might have been better if PW had had his suit forcibly frozen (the voluntary option having been offered and not taken up) for a month or so, and then been allowed back on to address concerns in a cooler climate. I feel further that it would be good to have a mod-driven suit suspension capability.

I might have suggested that PW be contacted to say that he'd get his password back in a set time, and would at that point be invited to address questions, possibly passed on through a single neutral point. However, although I certainly feel for him if he is experiencing any personal difficulties that have led to his recent behaviiour, I think that threats are probably where things go beyond the pale - I was not overjoyed when he threatened me, and if he is now threatening Tom then I kind of don't see a way back from that.

However, _if_ suspension becomes an option, we can consider that for next time, right?

22:26 / 04.10.06

Chiming in with Ganesh and Haus, I would have frozen paranoidwriter in preference to banning. But the banning was pretty inevitable given that the stun option is not available. Off to the freeze thread with me...
PW if you're reading I wish you luck, why not come back when you've calmed down?

23:07 / 04.10.06

I must agree with Pegs' characterization of PW's contributions to the Policy. PW's coaching of others on how to apologize, which advice I do not recall anybody having taken, seemed to me to be more a way of inserting himself into the Policy and less about the issue. I believe that his insistence on ignoring any remarks or questions addressed to him that might result in bringing a close to the furore and his constant needling of anybody who would talk to him at length and in a manner that would prolong things supports the notion that his intention was basically to seek attention. I do not think there's anything so awful about wanting attention, and frankly I wouldn't believe anybody who claimed not to want it, but neither do I think that any individual is entitled to disrupt thread after thread in pursuit of it.

Nor am I particularly bothered by content-free or innocuous posts, when they are not coupled with an inability to sometimes be quiet. As Lurid notes, not much caring for somebody's posts is one thing and feeling compelled to take action about that person is something else. I think in PW's case the difference for me was that he wouldn't, or couldn't, simply let it drop, and I don't think it makes much difference to the board which it was. If he had even just decided to lie low for a few weeks and then come back without giving any answers, but also without starting back up again, I am willing to bet he could've gotten away with that.

People around here will actually put up with rather a lot, if you at least give them a chance to catch their breath.

06:23 / 05.10.06

Since writing this, I've had two more "me too" PMs from posters who previously had cordial, pleasant PM relationships with ParanoidWriter but noticed him making less and less sense in the last couple of weeks. It would appear that it's in PM correspondence that this difference was most marked.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:44 / 05.10.06

If anyone feels the same way I do, which is that paranoidwriter's recent antics have been a source of much-needed hilarity at a difficult time, and if those people would like the address of a blog in which the Coup Countin', Gil Scott Heron bumpin', love-filled leader of men expresses his feelings about being banned from Barbelith, then holl. A. At. Cha. Boy.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:52 / 05.10.06

I hadn't recently exchanged any PMs with PW but we did have a brief exchange or two a few months back. He was perectly civil and easy to get on with.

So no, I don't know what the fuck happened.

09:01 / 05.10.06

Well, a quick google search can find the Blog. Seems that Barbelith has been the victim of 'some ontological terrorism'. That and a few LOVE grenades.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:49 / 05.10.06

Well, that's my emic reality tunnel well sh--

Oh, do you know what, I can't even be bothered anymore. Someone else can make the 23 joke.

10:10 / 05.10.06

Mainly I feel upset about PW's myspace Stephen Fry post.

I was going to say that PW had sent me some lovely PMs in the past and that I thought his behaviour had changed and how odd that change was and how unlike himself he seemed. But then I read the Stephen Fry post, and it seems like PW appears to think being bi-polar is cool and interesting and that one can put the illness on and off as one chooses.

So perhaps all the recent weirdness is just an attempt to be a bit more manic. Even the thought of that makes me red-misty angry. I live with someone who is diagnosed bi-polar. It's not something you pretend to be for the comedy value and it's certainly not something you can turn off and on at will.

11:46 / 05.10.06

Well, I had problems with the Stephen Fry thing too, but possibly different ones. Subject for a Film, Theatre & Television thread, maybe.

The MySpace thing certainly fills in some of the gaps in terms of providing access to some of his thoughts on what's been happening of late, on Barbelith...

14:30 / 05.10.06

Ganesh, I would be very interested in that conversation.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:41 / 05.10.06

I have to say that the thinly veiled threats of REVENGE if he doesn't get his PMs emailed to him did a lot to assuage any feelings of regret or PW missage that might be brewing in one's heart.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

14:48 / 05.10.06

Yes, I'm not feeling quite so sad anymore, though I tend to agree with toksik's response to his entry. Unfortunately he seemed to take that as an attack as well.

17:40 / 05.10.06

He's certainly imploded now.

00:04 / 06.10.06

The blog is quite funny - the threats of legal proceedings in particular are pretty much textbook. But I'm slightly ashamed of myself for being a bit worried about PW for a while back there.

Still, you live and learn, I guess. The next time anyone shows up here who appears to be having personal difficulties, I dare say I'll be inclined to go for the jugular.* And that I'm probably not alone in this. This, PW, is your legacy. You, and your message of love.

* Well all right, possibly not.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:07 / 06.10.06

Although he now seems to have calmed down a bit.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:12 / 06.10.06

Apart from the bit about 'PW' being the new swastika, yeah.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:51 / 06.10.06

That still represents a significant downness of calming, sadly.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

01:07 / 06.10.06

Oh yeah. I'm basking in the lurrrrrve.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

01:17 / 06.10.06

Is that lower-case "lurrrrve" or, y'know, proper LOVE?

05:35 / 06.10.06

07:44 / 06.10.06

Just reading through PW's MySpace now.

Oh dear.

Oh dear oh dear.

I suppose a certain amount of frustration and sour grapes is understandable, but still.

Hrm.

Just...disapointed really. I guess it's all part of the Reservoir Dogs mentality of the internet we all get into on occasion.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:56 / 06.10.06

I had a few conversations with a few male deer, a black bunny rabbit, and a load of parrots and other colourful birds. Sadly, however, all those wonderful creatures are caged in, in my local park. They were nice: they bowed their heads and kept a respectful distance; but I could see they were begging me to try to let them out. I told them:

"I don't know how. But I'll try; I'll come back later and work it out, if I can. Sorry, comrades: I can't make promises anymore, but I'll work on it..."

The headlines tomorrow will read: LOCAL DEER KILLED ON ROAD AFTER PARK FENCE VANDALISED.

miss wonderstarr

08:02 / 06.10.06

So PW's apparently mysterious change in approach, tone and online personality was a deliberate strategy of ontological terrorism (throwing things back at Barbelith) coupled with an idea he'd got from telly, that he had bi-polar disorder. That's an interesting postscript.

It makes you think it would be easier to deal with troublesome people on here if you had access to their online diaries while they were kicking off, instead of afterwards.

miss wonderstarr

08:06 / 06.10.06

The headlines tomorrow will read: LOCAL DEER KILLED ON ROAD AFTER PARK FENCE VANDALISED. SUSPECT MAKES ENIGMATIC "CONFESSION":

I did it with LOVE. You killed that deer. All Of You.

See? Now who's the Murderer? Huh? (smiles... GENUINELY!)

Fences? We don't Need your Steekin Fences? (Hey mon y'like ma accent? I don't mean it badly. Sincerely, guys.)

Qui Bono (not You Two, Haus! Said with LOVE)

X @+) (me in a hat)

Psi-L is working in hell

08:38 / 06.10.06

Of course if he'd read the 'park rules', he would have realised that rather than murder, controlled 'cullings' for deer that appear to have contracted something like CWD, are commonplace to protect the rest of the community.

Knowing that his behaviour was deliberate does certainly take the slight regret out of this debacle for me though.

08:44 / 06.10.06

coupled with an idea he'd got from telly, that he had bi-polar disorder.

I don't even think it was that, Miss Wonderstarr, I understood what he wrote to mean that he wished that he had and that perhaps it was something you could play around with.

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