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"Heroes" Series 1 (US and Torrents edition)

 
  

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Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
15:52 / 24.01.07
Speaking of Radioactive Ted, though, how is he out of federal custody?

In either the last or second to last episode before the break there is a bit where FBI Woman calls Parkman and says he escaped. There is a shot of her on the phone with a burning/melted prison transport behind her.
 
 
Paralis
16:00 / 24.01.07
I suppose so. And at least it looks like Parkman might have some sort of purpose as the point man on an anti-HRG campaign. Right now, he's the only one who knows both who and where he is, right? That information will become a lot more valuable once (if?) Mohinder finds him. Niki, though...

The webcomics show what happened immediately after Eden's death (#11, specifically). I hope this doesn't become a pattern. Not only because it's a reasonably important (and quite simple) plot point, but because it's an insupportable explanation.

I think I'm looking forward most to Hiro going back to Vegas. Surely now we'll actually get a look at Linderman?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:27 / 24.01.07
Wow. I REALLY hope the web comics aren't going to be a gap filler when the writers forget something. When the series pulls a comic book cliche I can let it slide, but when they are making comic books (even online only) with lines like "She was a GODDAMNED HERO!" I just sigh and stop reading.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
17:43 / 24.01.07
Yeah, I felt like we were chucked into storylines that had already been occurring.

Gaps, people, gaps. I realise the Continuity Angel on Heroes sometimes takes tequila shots on set, but really.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
18:12 / 25.01.07
There was something, not just about her acting or the character's growth, but in the way she looked, in the clothes she was wearing, the way her hair was styled, that said "older".

Maybe that she wasn't wearing a cheerleader outfit, for once in her life

I felt a bit blah about this episode. I'm not sure why. It seemed very slow-moving and mostly-unaffecting... the big event was someone stealing a wooden sword under the noses of slow-moving museum rentacops. It really didn't seem to tell us anything we didn't know (as far as I can remember) or take the story a stage forward. Sure, Ecclestone was hot... like a tramp is hot.
 
 
Spaniel
10:46 / 26.01.07
Well, it told us that that tattoo they all seem to have is a Japanese character (I think), and it added a pile of fuel to fire that Linderman knows rather more about what's going on than we might've thought. He's buying all thingy's paitings? Interustig.

But yeah, I know what you mean. It was basically an attempt to paint a clear picture of the status quo 12 eps on, and that was never gonna be that thrilling.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:00 / 26.01.07
I keep thinking, while watching, that if this show wasn't about superheroes I would think it sucked.
 
 
Spaniel
11:04 / 26.01.07
I think you might be right. But it is, so it doesn't.

I am teh simple child.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:16 / 26.01.07
I think I might be the same... the best bit for me in this episode was Claire pushing her collarbone back into her chest and the squicky sounds her body made as it healed, with a quieter rustle of regeneration sealing the cuts on her face and sucking the blood back inside.

And TNT Tom, or whatever his name is, BOOMing the explosions from one palm to another.

Basically I like the illusion that superhero powers are "real", and seeing them treated pretty convincingly within a soap opera (especially as most people respond to them as uncanny and unbelievable) gives me that.
 
 
Char Aina
13:42 / 26.01.07
i think the superhero angle is the only reason why i have stuck with twelve, sorry TWELVE, episodes of leadup and preamble.
i feel like we are constantly watching the opening fifteen minutes of a movie about superheroes.

i said it elsewhere on board, i think, but fuck me. it's a slow as fuck story arc that has lasted an entire series!

linderman?
still hanging.
hulk-mommy? we still have no idea what she is, or what is really going on with her.
petrelli's fear of flying? in the damn closet, still. he has only just figured out that super powers are real, despite having one himself. you can fly, dickwad. of course this shit is real.
the cheerleader? she's only just starting to realise that being invulnerable isnt a bad thing. only just! twelve episodes in! and someone had to tell her!
what the fuck? surely surviving your own murder and the violent revenge you then visited on your rapist and murderer would be enough to convince you?
what does it take to be happy with invulnerability?
slow as fuck.

even hiro, the most likeable character by far, has taken his sweet time to do anything.
well, his powers have stopped working.
of course they have. because otherwise he'd get the fucking sword out of the dead hands of takezo kensai and be rocking around the fucking timeline like he owned it.

i think american television has hit a stall wall recently, where any idea that suck the punters attention is then stretched as far as it ppossibly can so that it lasts a full 24 episodes.
lost syndrome seems a fair name for it, i think; these shitty cliffhangers every episode to make sure you keep coming back, cliffhangers that result in mundane revelations, and about one real revelation every six or seven episodes.

we've had about ten hours of heroes so far, and it feels like about two.
i mean, comic books are episodic and often end on cliffhangers too. they do. that's a part of superhero heritage, in a way.
you usually get at least one smack down and one major plot point per issue, though, and you usually feel like you are going somwehwere. if you don't, you ditch that comic for one that isnt just an expenive vehicle for adverts.

i think the lack of any real competition to these big budget shows is killing our drive to seek better stuff, and we have become complacent, accepting the torturously slow pace because if you don't, you wont get to see any superheroes on telly.

put it this way: how many times have we actually seen anyone fly in TWELVE episodes?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:44 / 26.01.07
Well, it told us that that tattoo they all seem to have is a Japanese character

A merging of two characters I think, "Godsend" and "Great Talent"
 
 
Char Aina
13:53 / 26.01.07
that's what they said.
speculation below....






.
.
.
.
.




i think 'TehSamurai' is going to be an early hero, a gene-freak from days gone by who had no science, and so understood the pattern in the DNA sequence through abstract means. zen and shit, man. his power? no idea. maybe he could freeze time so that no one could beat him in a sword fight.

.
.
.
.








speculation over.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
14:39 / 26.01.07
how many times have we actually seen anyone fly in TWELVE episodes?

Three, I think. Oh was it rhetorical?

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Teevee seems to be getting stretched way, way out these days... the very idea that Lost has to last five seasons or whatever. How many hours is that compared to the entire run of, say, The Prisoner? (That was going to be rhetorical, but it's easy enough to find out... 17 vs 120, I think.) As you say, that means the shocks, twists and hooks are buried at regular intervals of about every-three-episodes, with a few minor character moments or images in between just to keep us hanging on. Catch-up episodes just restating the status quo seem at least as regular as episodes where something important happens. The hooks seem to be in the next episode clips at the end, as often as they're in the episode themselves. It's like we're watching for the sake of the trailer in the final moments. "Oh, yeah, this was a bit of a slow character episode... but OMG did you see that half-second of Locke looking like he was holding a rifle in the end montage?"

It does seem like a whole new way of doing television. Is it just American? The BBC's currently got a really quite interesting project on called Five Days, in collaboration with HBO; it's a prestige drama, and it's five episodes of one hour each. I can't help thinking that in the US, that'd be 24 episodes, split across a year, and then Five Days Two: the Next Five Days, with a box set of DVDs and exclusive glimpse of 2009's Fifteen Days, with a bonus money-off coupon for Five Days jointed mini-action figures.
 
 
Spaniel
14:53 / 26.01.07
petrelli's fear of flying? in the damn closet, still.

Well, his flying was responsible for his wife's accident, so I'm thinking this has been explained to some extent.

Actually, the prototype for the modern mystery show was Twin Peaks. And, talking of cliffhangers that go nowhere, what about Dale Cooper's dream revelation? Very funny, mind.

The thing is, toks, the way these shows work is that they are as much soaps as they are high-concept dramas. The excuse for the big revelations coming slowly is that the shows work on two levels: mythology and soap opera. The soap moves relatively quickly (I said relatively, don't hit me) and keeps us amused in the short term, while the mythology, which is better measured in geological time, moves slowly but leads to more satisfying revelations.

As for other quality shows, there's fucking loads of 'em. In world where The Sopranos, The Wire and Dexter exist, it takes a lazy man to complain.
 
 
Char Aina
14:55 / 26.01.07
i think the syndication of episodes in america has a lot to do with it, yeah. a six part series is sometimes all a story can really sustain. or ten. or twelve. or, hey, maybe two.

but yeah, this forced 22-24 episode pattern really shits on good storytelling. i have the same problem in reverse with some movies, where they try to cram everything into a neat little popcorn-and-a-snog window for release.

i think heroes could have been a lot better( or at least workable), if only they had had the balls to tell a story rather than punch a clock.
 
 
Spaniel
14:58 / 26.01.07
I was talking to mother (C4 drama exec) about American drama recently. I think the thing to remember is that these shows are, when sucessful, humungously profitable. Literally raking in hundreds of millions of dollars. I's in the network's best interests to string shows out for as long as possible.

Interestingly we can't afford to make series with the production values of American dramas. At least, we can't afford to make 'em anywhere near as long in that it's impossible to raise the necessary capital. Hence 5 episode series vs 24 episode marathons.
 
 
Char Aina
15:03 / 26.01.07
Well, his flying was responsible for his wife's accident, so I'm thinking this has been explained to some extent.

i didnt see i as responsible, to be honest. he lived because of it, and maybe he felt he should have died, but it wasnt because he was flying. it was because he was involved with mobsters.

more satisfying revelations.

i disagree, but then we have that freedom.
i think the satisfaction is drained out of most of them because any comic reader can figure out half of them well in advance. this is massively, i think, because we have been given months to do so.


As for other quality shows, there's fucking loads of 'em. In world where The Sopranos, The Wire and Dexter exist, it takes a lazy man to complain.

dexter isnt bad, that's true.
it also isnt about superheroes.
the sporanos was great too, and it did what you are saying heroes does- soap opera and genre action. the difference, i reckon, is that it did it well. sopranos felt like a saga, and the exposition came at what felt like a natural pace.
i wasnt sitting there going "when the fuck is tony going to realise..." about much, if anything.

i know you are TehSimple and love it, but what would you hate about the show, if it wasnt about superfolks?
 
 
Spaniel
15:08 / 26.01.07
Sorry, I'm not saying Heroes does anything that well, I was simply explaining the dramatic logic behind the show and shows like it.

When I said "satisfying", I also didn't necessarily mean that any of it actually is satisfying, only that that's how it's supposed to work. I completely agree with your assessment that most revelations are massively depowered by the time they actually arrive.

And, finally, when I said "responsible" what I meant was, Petrelli feels that it was. That's the source of his anxiety. I think that's pretty unquestionable at this point.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:21 / 26.01.07
What I would mostly dislike about the show if it didn't have teh powers in it is the sluggish pace, lack of satisfying plot meat, and too many bland characters I really don't care for. I think I'm making a lot of allowance even for Claire (like Boboss, seeing all kinds of subtlety and evolution in the character and performance) because she's cute and regenerates.

Also, Mohinder's acting consistently strikes me as appalling.
 
 
Char Aina
15:29 / 26.01.07
fair enough, b.
i guess the thing that really shits me is the disappointment.
i would really like to like it, and i would really like there to be a good show about superheroes.

still, at least it's better than smallville.
i felt near physical pain when i forced myself to watch that shit again, whereas i can actually watch heroes without wanting to cut the unhappiness out of my head.
 
 
Spaniel
17:03 / 26.01.07
LOL. I'd hope you were enjoying it a little bit, toks. You mustn't watch things that make you want to gouge your brain.

Mohinder's acting is really, really terrible. He's so flat and monotonous. And as I've said upthread, the fact that his arc thus far has been pretty much divorced from the meat of the plot hasn't helped matters. He was a completely superflous character played by an bad actor. I expect him to become more involved, which I'm not sure will be an improvement.

Not at all good.
 
 
Char Aina
17:06 / 26.01.07
i think it all ties up in series nine, episode fourteen.

can't wait!
 
 
Spaniel
18:15 / 26.01.07
I can't wait!
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
18:49 / 27.01.07
Sure, Ecclestone was hot... like a tramp is hot.

What can I say? I like beards. I like scruff. Yum.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:12 / 27.01.07
But you like Tennant, who is quite smart, as well. I mean, you can fancy who you like, Kali!
 
 
Corey Waits
23:10 / 27.01.07
i think 'TehSamurai' is going to be an early hero, a gene-freak from days gone by who had no science, and so understood the pattern in the DNA sequence through abstract means. zen and shit, man. his power? no idea. maybe he could freeze time so that no one could beat him in a sword fight.

Well, I thought that maybe "TehSamurai" would be an early Hiro, who time travelled back, grew some long hair, learned how to wield a sword and had some adventures before coming back to deal with the whole present-day bomb thingy.

I could be wrong, but it seems so obvious that it could very well be the case.
 
 
Char Aina
00:32 / 28.01.07
holy crap, that seems blindingly obvious when you say it out loud.
or, well, when i read it. silently.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:36 / 28.01.07
The painting was incorrect, wasn't it? It showed Hiro actually wielding a sword against the dinosaur, not wielding a scabbard or a bit of replica wood.
 
 
Spaniel
14:30 / 28.01.07
I recognise the allure of the above theory, but I'm a bit sceptical (only a bit, mind), 'cause I'm not sure how they'd fit a soujorn back to ancient Japan into the show. It would sit rather badly with the other storylines. It would also probably be very expensive.

I suppose it could happen off-camera.
 
 
Spaniel
07:30 / 31.01.07
Well that really was quite crap, wasn't it?

Eccleston: "Back off, guy, I'm cerazy and edgy and dangerous and don't give a fuck and I definitely won't help you"
Eccleston: "Actually I'd love to help for I am the secret teacher"

That must've been the most hamfisted attempt I've seen to add tension to a show in years. There's no real attempt at overcoming the problem (Eccleston's reluctance to help), instead he just has a complete about face. Now, the seeds of his caring sharingness were sown with the bird thing, but it's just bad practice to present the viewers with a problem that doesn't turn out to be a problem at all. Okay, okay it let us know that this fella he grumpy, but it's effectively deus ex machina, and that's often, and certainly was in this case, a very unsatisfactory way of telling a story. It just felt kind of pointless.

Also, what was that shit with the Cop and the plumbing? Yeah, yeah, it was the last nail in the coffin of a bad bad day, and it was only a little thing but it felt saggy and unnecessary in a show that’s full of little and not so little saggy and unnecessary and disconnected details.

Heroes is starting to look like an octopus with it's arms chopped off and flailing spasmodically. They need to bring some of this shit together and they need to do it fast. It lacks the grounding flashback element of Lost, that, through presenting the audience with a complete story every week, works to tie you into an episode (with more or less success) whether it moves the bigger narrative on or not. Instead Heroes presents us with lots and lots and lots of completely unresolved plot lines that all seem to be pulling in different directions. That is a dangerous unfun thing to do.
 
 
Triplets
08:56 / 31.01.07
True, but was the case with, say, Seven Soldiers too until the last issue. That was set in New York too. Twenty-three etc.

I agree, though, that some of the plot threads need to seek out like-minded partners quicksmart.
 
 
Spaniel
09:14 / 31.01.07
Ye-eah, but it is really different from Seven Soldiers in that it's a TV show carrying multiple plot threads over the course of each episode. Obviously this means that very little time can be spent on each one, making for potentially very unsatisfactory viewing.

I imagine I've come across as very down on Heroes over the last few posts, which is a shame because I think there are some nice things about the show, and I'd been enjoying it as flawed but fun light entertainment until very, very recently.

Interestingly with all it's separate plotlines it looks a lot more like a traditional soap-opera in the Dynasty/Eastenders vein than just about any other popular drama I can think of. To use a popular term from the world of comicbooks, it's very anti-team, at the mo'
 
 
Spaniel
09:21 / 31.01.07
Me above

It just felt kind of pointless.

What I mean to say is it felt like filler in show that doesn't need any more than it's already got.
 
 
gridley
13:57 / 31.01.07
The painting was incorrect, wasn't it?

So, it would seem. I suppose you could argue that Issac only paints a stylized version of what he sees (rather than anything even approaching photorealism).

But I'm still holding out hope this the museum bit was a fakeout and we'll still get season cliffhanger that has Hiro stuck in prehistoric times and unable to work his powers to get back.
 
 
Triplets
15:19 / 31.01.07
And then he could go forwards to become a ronin! Should we just rename this fan-version of Heroes "Quantum Leap! With Swords!" and have done with it?
 
  

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