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Doctor Who: Season 2 UK

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Mister Six, whom all the girls

23:01 / 13.06.06

Isn't he 'banned from the Earth' or something to that effect by Queen Victoria?

23:07 / 13.06.06

I have to say, I'm preferring this season to the last, with the possible exceptions of "New Earth" (which was pure cheese and can be forgiven some of its production failures for some excellent comedic performances), and the cybermen two-parter (which at worst, was middle-of-the-road).

Tennant seems to be subject to a great deal of criticism due to his performance. Here, he seems to be accused of a great deal of gurning and elsewhere (mostly on Television Without Pity's forums) his perceived smugness in the role has been attributed as people's main reason for not enjoying his interpretation of the Doctor.

People seem to be giving far too much credit to the Ecclestone's Doctor, stating that he tenure as the Doctor was full of high emotion. Okay. That's fine, there was high emotion, but only because he was in death-foreshadowing mode from about episode 6 onwards, similar to Tom Baker in his final season as the Doctor.

Ecclestone gurned. That toothy, false smile of his made me cringe whenever he cracked it, but I was willing to overlook it because of other aspects of his role. His interaction with Rose remains unparalleled by Tennant thus far, but there's a reason for that. Ecclestone's Doctor was a hook to hang Rose's storyline on. Season 1 of New Who was essentially the Rose show and now that her story is essentially wrapped up neatly, there doesn't seem to be any reason for her to hang around on the show much longer.

Tennant's Doctor is so much more than a hook for Rose's storyline and the producers seem to realise this. They've had Rose and the Doctor seperated for most of the new season, showing us Tennant's Doctor's potential his capacity for emotional intensity, but one that is different and perhaps more subtle than Ecclestone's extremes of smiling stupidly and staring into the distance with teary eyes. Still, they have the Rose storyline in each episode for those who are still interested in the character.

Once Rose is gone and if Tennant is still around at that stage, we'll see even more of the Doctor's potential. I hope. Otherwise this post is a bit meaningless..

Mister Six, whom all the girls

00:56 / 14.06.06

"There doesn't seem to be any reason for her to hang around on the show much longer."- Thank you, I was thinking that as well. I mean, after linking up with the Matrix, what else is there left to do?

As far as Eccleston, the gurning and all is wearing, yes, but in his defense I saw that as a coverup for his deep pain underneath, the loss of his planet, the guilt of his part in the Time War, etc.

Tennant's Doctor is very energetic, very much in control and eager to take charge of a situation as an authority (isn't there a line in New Earth about how there is no higher authority?). This makes those viewers frustrated by Eccleston's Doctor and his unease with doing anything to affect anyone around him happy, I'm sure. It gives us that mythical Doctor of olde who is the 'mister fix-it' as they say in Nightmare of Eden.

This is an improvement but only if there's something that can stop him and scare the living bejeezus out of him. We got a glimpse of that in Age of Steel and it's pretty apparent it'll happen again in the finale (isn't that what finales are for?).

And isn't the interaction between the Doctor and Rose a bit forced in Age of Steel? Or is it just me? The first season had a lot of 'he's falling in love with her,' if that's true... what have we for them here? If I'm supposed to feel that they are lovers I just don't.

My favorite episode so far has to be Girl in the Fireplace solely because, unsaddled by Rose, the Tenth Doctor really shines (and vice-versa). I'm just wondering if that's intentional.

I hardly think your post will be meaningless in the end. There are so many places the season can go, which is only one of the reasons we keep watching!

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:16 / 14.06.06

I wish people would stop saying Tennant and Ecclestone 'gurn'. You might like to refer to a dictionary there, but anyway.

Mister Six Part of the problem for me is that I share no real empathy with the Doctor and Rose. They just come off as bulletproof and very full of themselves. Maybe it's just me, I dunno... but I've heard others theorize that this is an intentional theme that leads to a big pay-off in the finale.

Well yes, it's been so hammered home that by contrast God coming to Moses at the top of the mountain would be considered simple and understated. Personally I reckon it will turn out to be Doctor Ten driving the car that killed Rose's Dad. Maybe. But yes, there wouldn't be all this happiness if it wasn't about to come crashing down.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:50 / 14.06.06

2. gurn - the act of manipulating one's facial muscles in an unusual manner

09:07 / 14.06.06

10:33 / 14.06.06

Isn't he 'banned from the Earth' or something to that effect by Queen Victoria?

More a symbolic thing by Vicky than something that will actually be enforced (except possibly by Torchwood...eventually). Even then he and Rose were exiled from the Empire rather than Earth.

S'not like the Doctor's going to pay attention to that anyway.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

12:22 / 14.06.06

Of course, all of you know that I much prefer Eccleston's interpretation of the Doctor because of the goofy smile and the very pragmatic way he had of looking at things.

I like Tennant but he still seems very much an overeager puppy who is anxious to prove his worth. We like you, now tone it down a little.

Torchwood doesn't air until next spring, right?

Mister Six, whom all the girls

12:30 / 14.06.06

But it's the fact that he was banned and thought nothing of it that I find troubling. To be banned and then act as he did at one time would be a sign of his rebelious anti-establishment behavior that played out so much in the Third/Fourth Doctor eras. But here Tennant just laughs it off.

Didn't he want to help humaity at one point? Now he seems content to act like a God as the rules no longer apply to him. He's above them.

I'm with you, Kali on the anxious puppy thing with Tennant. To each their own on better Doctors. You'll never be able to steer a fan of Davison away from him or convince a fan of Pertwee that his era was inferior and no one should.

However... I think Eccleston was a stronger actor with a stronger backstory (Last of the Timelords, the Time War) to draw from while Tennant doesn't have much at his disposal. I don't think it's a failing in Tennant as an actor just as I don't blame McCoy for his era's failings. He just needs good direction... which I think he got this past weekend.

It's still early in the game, anything's possible... I just wish anything would hurry up and get here.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:40 / 14.06.06

But it's the fact that he was banned and thought nothing of it that I find troubling.

He also lied about being a subject of the Empire. Naughty Dctor. However, since he was not a subject of the Empire, a) his knighthood and b) the injunction following it were pretty meaningless. Since we haven't seen him pop up in the Raj, he may well have decided to follow Her Maj's instructions to the letter, but it seems more likely that he treated it with the same level of attention and deference as he would any other KEEP OUT sign.

If there's a cause for narrative concern, it would be that he was so light-hearted about the possibility that the person giving the orders might be turning into a werewolf. The not observing a prohibition from the hereditary constitutional monarch of a colonial power regarding the borders of a temporary geopolitical demarcation? Not so much.

12:41 / 14.06.06

I believe Torchwood will be coming out in October and acting as a sort of winter season Doctor Who. It would also mean that we would get 26-27 new Dr Who/Dr Who related stories each year...

And on the subject of Torchwood, I don't think it is much of a spoiler to say that they seem likely to figure large at the end of season two. It has also been rumoured that this series has a bit of a cliff hanger ending. That being the case, how and where do people think the cliffhanger will be resolved?

At the beginning of Torchwood? This year's christmas special? next season? I guess the cliff-hanger must be more in terms of consequences rather than a 'to be continued' type thing... I guess we will have to wait a month to find out...

Mister Six, whom all the girls

13:00 / 14.06.06

Haus: Yes, very good point.

Ignoring a KEEP OUT sign would be in his character to an extent. I just find it hard to believe this is the same character who helped Richard the Lionheart at one time...

I don't want to come off as a 'this ne'er woulda happened in de olde series' kind of guy, but... This kind of thing does show shoddy attention to details or character... or both.

I just can't get over the fact that while aliens taking over parliament warrants a nuclear attack a werewolf regent gets a giggle and a hairflip.

However... I know I'm not alone with the fact that the parallel universe angle is not random. Infact, didn't the Doctor talk about a steam powered England in Tooth and Claw that would have come about if the Werewolf gained the throne and then in Age of Steel we get all these blimps floating about?

That can't be a coincidence, can it?

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

13:10 / 14.06.06

I agree with Mister Six that the Ninth Doctor felt he had a stronger backstory than the Tenth. Again, I like Tennant a good deal, but his Doctor just seems a bit too...I dunno...pompous?

I am hoping that these Torchwood references will pay off. I am hoping that the cliff-hanger will leave me in front of the computer--as this is how I am watching series two--going, "You mean I might have to wait to have this resolved?????"

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:17 / 14.06.06

Infact, didn't the Doctor talk about a steam powered England in Tooth and Claw that would have come about if the Werewolf gained the throne and then in Age of Steel we get all these blimps floating about?

That can't be a coincidence, can it?

It's not a coincidence. It's called "two entirely unrelated separate things", since the blimps are not powered by steam.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

13:34 / 14.06.06

kali: Remember what they said about Colin baker's Doctor.. actually.... don't.

flyboy: Well, I asked, didn't I? But it IS an anachronysm and that seemed to be the push of the Doctor's statement... if memory serves...

I'm just hoping there's a network of events this season that pulls it all together, you understand.

13:45 / 14.06.06

Billie's leaving/dying in battle at the end of series 2, innshe? Dave's so goin' to pick up Ida. "Ida - see you again maybe". She'd be good, bit older, wiser, the slightly more sensible one to Doctor X's gurning daredevil. The kind of companion Rose'd turn into by series 6.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:04 / 14.06.06

Whether Bille Piper is returning for a third series is currently, and I suspect quite deliberately, unclear.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:06 / 14.06.06

Well, the Doctor was talking about a hyper-advanced Victorian era - that is, rockets being created a century early and thus being powered by steam and made of wood because that was the available technology - he was talking, in effect, about a steampunk environment. Whereas the zeppelins struck me as not so much anachronistic as alternate - a sign that this parallel universe had, say, discovered a safe lighter-than-air gas, or the Hindenburg had never exploded. So, I don't think there's a connection, but I could be wrong.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

14:19 / 14.06.06

Haus: Yes, a steampunk era...

...

...

Are you as excited as I am by a real effort into a steampunk Dr Who rather than contemporary London with some CGI blimps thrown in?

It would really rock... sigh.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

14:53 / 14.06.06

I was pretty sure I had read on the BBC Doctor Who website that Billie Piper signed on for Season Three. I could swear on it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:57 / 14.06.06

Agreed - steampunk Who would be rock, although possibly the budget, although obviously much bigger than Old Who, would stretch to breaking point and it would end up failing.

Kali: I think that kind of counts as a spoiler. Could answers go by PM rather than in-thread, please?

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

14:59 / 14.06.06

Sorry, Haus, I didn't realize that counted as a spoiler. Many apologies.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:47 / 14.06.06

Quick recap on the spoiler issue - Doctor Who seems to have a higher standard of spoilerism than most - people are known to avoid the Radio Times or refuse to watch the trailers at the end of the show. As such, anything supported by official sources - preview tapes, BBC sources like the Radio Times, a chat with Russell T Davies in the pub - is best avoided as spoily. Uninformed speculation is still golden, mind.

16:31 / 14.06.06

Re: Eccleston vs. Tennant;

While Eccleston is probably a better actor (Hell if I know, I've only seen him in Who and 28 Days Later) and did have a better backstory, I guess (though Who is Who is Who, ain't he?), the stories weren't as good as the ones in season two. Frankly, I think Tennant's fine, I like the girning (yes, it's spelled with an 'i') and the exaggeratory nature of the character.

So far, though, I've only seen two and a half pre-Eccleston Who stories (I'm an American, you see, and no one over here has heard of Dr. Who), and they're all Tom Baker (and they're not that great, really). And while he's okay, he plays the character too understated for my liking. I'd rather see the Doctor as a larger than life figure...

Anyway. Impossible Planet & Satan Pit were great, my favorites since School Reunion and Girl in the Fireplace. Aside from a few mediocre episodes, this season's been excellent, and I have nothing to base this opinion on other than the show's own merits. Perhaps it's more engaging for new viewers and fans, who don't know anything about the mythology aside from what Wikipedia tells them.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

16:31 / 14.06.06

I think that Television Without Pity's Doctor Who forums are some of the most insipid and mind-numbingly dull posts I have ever read. (A twenty-three page thread on how attractive David Tennant is? No thanks!)

So I say--with all sincerity--thank you, Barbelith for having a Doctor Who thread worth reading.

(I'm serious.)

Mister Six, whom all the girls

16:44 / 14.06.06

BillR: If you're interested there's a thread I started that was apparently as interesting as wallpaper only half as colourful about the classic series DVDs... and if you want larger than life watch Trial of a Timelord... but don't call me afterwards to yell at me. Seriously, PM me if you want any classic series reccs. Plenty of fine Who fans here have made suggestions of what to watch, I just can't remember where that thread went.

Kali: androzani.com is similar if I recall.

Has anyone had a look-in at the US scifi channel board? There's all this talk about regeneration virgins... oh my. But it's intersting to see people in the US just noticing Dr Who for the first time.

And I've not seen Our Friends in the North but RTD and Eccleston both worked on Second Coming which is really great. Clocking Off is also fantastic. Kinda sad that Chris never got the kind of range he was capable of with the character.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

16:50 / 14.06.06

(brief threadrot)

Only problem with The Second Coming was the complete crap death scene.

But I'll say no more in re: Eccleston lest I be chastised again.

(threadrot ended)

I am always interested to check out other boards regarding the Doctor, but honestly, Barbelith is the only one worth reading. It makes me feel vaguely superior and snobby in a way. I am thisclose to posting something snotty on the TWoP board. Something along the lines of: "You are never going to be half as clever as the Barbelith folk. Nope. Not gonna happen."

Hell, I may do that now, just to see if I get kicked off.

17:25 / 14.06.06

[slight sanity-saving rot]

watch Trial of a Timelord

For pity's sake, just don't. Even Brian Blessed couldn't save it for me.

[/rot]

18:05 / 14.06.06

Trial of a Timelord is worth watching for Terror of the Vervoids alone! Bonnie Langford is captivating in it.

What I see happening come the season finalé is that Rose doesn't literally die, but the version of Rose that the Doctor knows does. She might very well be possessed in some fashion adhering to the theme that has been established this season. We've had the Cassandra stuff, the werewolf infection, cybermen as robotic possession, and of course the stuff we've seen in the Satan Pit two parter.

I think a return for Ida would be great. We've already seen that she's an excellent companion to the Doctor, but it seems more likely that the producers are probably going to stick with younger people for companions.

22:37 / 14.06.06

*SPOILERIFIC*

Perhaps I'm looking for refs where there are none, but when the soldier chap dies there's some ref. to his initials being P.K.D.
How I tittered

*SPOILER OVER*

That aside, what a marvellous episode!

10:10 / 15.06.06

If you are at all sensitive to casting information and how it impacts on future stories in a potentially spoilerific way then I suggest people avoid the BBC news website today...

10:23 / 15.06.06

and they're all Tom Baker (and they're not that great, really). And while he's okay, he plays the character too understated for my liking

Tom Baker? Understated performance?

There's something you don't hear everyday.

Do you remember which episodes they were?

Whisky Priestess

10:24 / 15.06.06

A gurn is a distorted facial expression, and a verb to describe the process. Sometimes spelled girn, perhaps related to the word grimace.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

11:33 / 15.06.06

Evil: Well, it depends on the episode for Tom. In some of his later episodes he IS very understated. But look at Pirate Planet and... well... Tom is hardly taking it easy there. Ofcourse this could just be a new opinion on Tom the likes of which I've never encountered. You never know.

Mick: I caught that ref too.

Finally caught the new episode and... I loved the production value and it's very strange to think that this was supposed to be a Slitheen episode plus there was no Devil monster until the last minute (listen to commentary on the BBC site), but... I'm losing patience with Tennant. I don't want to be negative because we've got him now but... I'm hoping my opinion of him changes because he's very OTT in this episode unless he's acting over an intercom with Ida which was lovely stuff. But put him in an 'acting aghainst nothing' scene where he's facing an unfinished special effect monster like in this story and... I wanted to leave the room. He even does a mime of the monster toward the end! WTF!!

Tennant aside, the episode was fantastic and something I don't think we've seen before. The scale and glam level of effects was something that fans of the Classic series have been waiting for for ages. Well done.

By the by... Is there call for re-opening or starting a new classic Dr Who thread? Any takers?

11:53 / 15.06.06

start it and they will come...

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