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Grant Morrison's Batman

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04:00 / 04.07.08

If I remember correctly, after R.I.P. , there is a two parter that deals with final crisis. most likely batman's captivity in the torture chambers of bludhaven.

as for this issue: totally off the hook. I'm amazed that dc editorial will sign off on batman strung out on meth and heroin, stumbling around in the gutter. I mean, if they're concerned about liscencing and marketing and all that shit... can't wait to see this show up at wallmart and chapters.

I'm more and more convinced that nothing really happens to take bruce off the board. it's just him and tim at the end/beggining. the whole trajectory of spiritual rebirth is on track.

...and did anyone ele notice we saw nothing of Jet this issue? but that's not really saying much as a number of things seemingly went on hold.

The Natural Way

05:16 / 04.07.08

The Batmite badguy question isn't interesting. I'm not even sure it's worth answering.

07:00 / 04.07.08

It was a rhetorical question, but thanks anyway...

08:10 / 04.07.08

Hrm, %homeless people are, like, much better off spiritually because they've got nothing%.

Oh its all a metaphor. Oh that's alright then.

08:54 / 04.07.08

Is it really that straightforward though? I haven't got the issue to hand to check, but that doesn't feel quite right to me. For a start Bruce is ostensibly homeless and he's clearly not better off for losing everything, although it might be a good place to rebuild from, if he finds that rebuilding is possible. Also, Honor - an alcoholic in life - is now dead, which isn't that great for him.

08:56 / 04.07.08

Not just an alcoholic - a junkie, who killed himself with the $100 Batman gave him, spent on broon.

09:08 / 04.07.08

Oh ye-eah. Didn't pick up on that. Knew I shouldn't have read it at gone midnight last night.

Flybs, I don't want The Black Glove to be Thomas Wayne. For that matter I don't want The Black Glove to be Darkseid. But as the song says… Must keep in mind that it's all in the execution, and if the execution runs anything like the last couple of issues I'll be a very happy bunny indeed. Bloody comic's been haunting me all morning.

12:40 / 04.07.08

Flybs, I don't want The Black Glove to be Thomas Wayne. For that matter I don't want The Black Glove to be Darkseid.

That's handy. Because it's not them. No. Nosirree. No, no, no.

It's Joe Chill's son. Yes, yes. It is. You'll see.

12:52 / 04.07.08

I'd quite like that.

Like Hush but good instead of shit

12:57 / 04.07.08

If Thomas Wayne is the Black glove, could Hurt be Thomas Wayne's (other?) son?

14:48 / 04.07.08

It was also quite creepy how rapidly Nightwing was taken off the board and foaming at the mouth - all in just 4 panels. (although wouldn't the Arkham guy, the genuine article, say "I say, isn't that Nightwing's mask? You know, that other crimefighter that hangs around with Batman?")

Overall, a genuine sense of dread is present with regard to both Dick and Tim (who must have escaped the Black Glove minions to fight with Bats on the cover of the issue-after-next).

16:24 / 04.07.08

Remember when King Mob blew up Mason's mansion? Bruce in the gutters feels like the next panel after that.

16:33 / 04.07.08

The Black Glove must be Jezebel Jet. Her conspicuous absence from the bat-cave, especially coming off of last issue where her questions very clearly initiated Bruce's breakdown, make her the obvious choice in my mind. I like the Alfred/Outsider idea, though. And Darkseid would be holy-crap cool. This issue did reminded me of GM's Mister Miracle series, and Bats is in the thrall of the dark gods over in Final Crisis so who knows?

BTW Finder; only Tim is helping Bats out with the Black Glove minions in the cover to 680, so maybe Nightwing will still be busy wall-bouncing OR he finally becomes the new Dark Knight. And where's Damien?

17:21 / 04.07.08

I think you're missing something there, Eskay. Namely, if JJ is the Black Glove, what her motivation? What is she to Bruce-Bats? With the other candidates motivation is kinda built in. Also, just because she appears to be involved doesn't mean that she is - it could all just be misdirection, or, if it isn't - if she is a baddie - there's nothing to suggest that she's the baddie.

Not saying I dislike the idea, mind. It just needs a lot more work.

21:03 / 04.07.08

I hear you there Boboss. Can't really see any deep motivation behind JJ being the big bad tbh, only surface clues:
-Her name of course.
-Her eagerness to uncover Bruce's "dark depths", how quick they became close, and quicker still her uncovering his dual identity -- all very suspicious.
-Certain depictions in some of her appearances - go back to 677 for example, when they're in the bat-cave, discussing the Joker's DCU#0 clue. Her face is covered in shadow with bats flying behind her, making it look like devil horns are growing out her head. Her face is in total darkness in that particular panel too though her hair is still very red, an image accompanying Bruce's "black and red" analysis of Joker's clue. Obvious misdirection or clear hint?
- Her complete absence this issue after being right there when Bruce fell apart in the bat-cave - I mean everyone else was accounted for, it's just really odd that she is so invisible this issue.

Does evil need deep motivation in the Bat-verse? Isn't being bad and or/batshit crazy motivation enough? I hope JJ's legit actually, I like the Alfred or Darkseid ideas best. And Bruce needs a girlfriend for a while longer still.

The Natural Way

01:07 / 05.07.08

All you've got is evidence suggesting she's somehow involved, not the Glove hirself.

10:37 / 05.07.08

Yeah. I hear what you're saying, Uno, but I think it would be a slow bat-fan who hadn't picked up on that stuff. Like I said in my last post, it could be misdirection, or, if not, none of it puts her squarely in the Black Glove frame.

Can't remember: do we know for a fact that Joe Chill had a son, and if we do (and even if we don't), do we have any reason to assume he didn't have a daughter?

10:47 / 05.07.08

From issue 673 (Joe Chill In Hell):

"I shoulda shot the kid right there - I shoulda done him first. Three for three."
"But he was like my own boy. The son I lost."

So, Joey didn't kill Bruce because Bruce reminded him of his own kiddiewink, who for reasons unknown was lost to him.

From Daniel McDidio's whiteboard:

Father/Son
Murder/Suicide

The father's were murdered (in Bruce's case), and committed suicide (in Joe Jr's case).

11:45 / 05.07.08

I'm liking it, Neon.

11:55 / 05.07.08

And his motivation, see, is class-warfare.

Coz Brucey, he was handed it all on a plate. He is, according to Hurt, no more than an "arrogant, damaged little aristocrat."

Chill, on the other hand, had to work for it. Pulled himself up out of the gutters by his bootlaces. He had to Fight and Kill. Hard work. Grrr. Built the Land, Sea, Air Transport company up from nothing. Won The Apprentice without lying about his CV. Salt of the Land.

So yes, Hurt is his son. Same colour eyes and everything.

All that stuff about the Hurt being the Devil? And Batmite?

....uh, haven't a scooby.

The Natural Way

12:02 / 05.07.08

Well, from demon-bats perspective Hurt certainly is the devil - afterall he orchestrated the whole satanic death thing.

But I think the devil Damian mentions in 666 is an altogether different beast.

12:11 / 05.07.08

Hm.

The Devil mentioned by Damian in #666 was almost inevitable, given the theme for the comic, I guess. However, he was most certainly supernatural, and was the same being that Demonbats referred to as The Devil. Damian had also made a deal with him, and sold him his soul in return for Gotham's survival, (and also for a nifty little trick which repaired bulletwounds! Groovy!).

So, Hurt is the devil, and Damian sold him his soul. Meh.

12:18 / 05.07.08

...and that's why Chill lost him!

He lost him to Satan and TEH DARK SIDE!!!22112!!!!

I has solved it, I has.

The Natural Way

13:11 / 05.07.08

I'm not sure that demonbat's devil and Damian's have to be the same bloke at all. The only indication we have that there's anything supernatural about demonbats is the eeeevil walking on water 'miracle', but, hey, that kind of tech could be readily available in the future.

18:22 / 05.07.08

I imagine this issue annoyed and alienated quite a lot of regular Bat-readers. Which I'm all for really.

Kraken holding up a champagne glass with his helmet still on is funny.

The Bat-radia is certainly similar to a Motherbox if only in theme and not actualy a Motherbox. It's a focus for Bruce's mangled brains.

I loved it. Bonkers Bat-comics. A fusion of Silver Age weirdness and grrritty modern art and violence. Basically the sum of what George is trying to do by acknowledging ALL of Batman's history. From BROKENBATBACKS to BAT-ALIENS.

PS. Why the hell is Tim eating all the time? Does he have tuberculosis?

19:08 / 05.07.08

i like you theory a lot, Neon, apart from the Devil bit, which is still a bit to hazy right now.

do you guys still think the Waynes being members of an upclass secret S&M society was made-up? or could Thomas and Joe have known each other, fighting for junkie Martha? maybe Hurt is Bruce's deranged half-brother...

it's getting even nastier. in my mind, at least.

The Natural Way

19:12 / 05.07.08

You know what? The more I think about it, I'm very, very much of the opinion that 'snake's right and Hurt is Chill's son, but I'm not sold on Hurt being the Black Glove.

I think the end of this arc will see revelation follow revelation.

19:33 / 05.07.08

Kraken holding up a champagne glass with his helmet still on is funny.

I just lol'ed. Out loud, no less.

19:38 / 05.07.08

I am struggling with the whole devil thing. It's implied in #666 that Damian made a deal with the devil, the same devil, that Lane had. There was some dialogue along the lines of "What? He didn't tell you he made a deal with me too? Well he did, so there. Ner-ner-ner-ner-ner."

Whether it was actually the same guy or not, I don't know. But Damo thinks so.

But I can't see the tie-in with Hurt, the gambling angle, or the rest of the run.

...gambling. We see a panel of Joe Chill shuffling cards, yes? He is maybe a gambler. A little more evidence, certainly.

Anyone got anything on the supernatural stuff?

Could be that this 'devil' is just Batmite, pure and simple as that, I suppose.

19:48 / 05.07.08

I imagine this issue annoyed and alienated quite a lot of regular Bat-readers. Which I'm all for really.

Yeah. The general consensus seems to be that anyone who enjoyed an issue showing Batman fucked up on h and whatever else is not a True Batman Fan(tm).

I have some sympathy, in honesty. If you don't buy in to Morrison's stuff, and enjoy Batman looming in the rain and fisting rapists in teh face, cracking femurs and applying big grim stubbly spankings, then I imagine an issue featuring drugged-up Brucey, a spirit guide who may be a hallucination, a being from the 5th Dimension, and Batman wearing a purple, red, and yellow costume might all be a little too much.
Not to mention - Nightwing takes another beating, bless him. Will he never get any respect?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

19:58 / 05.07.08

No. No. No, he won't. Because we remember Disco Suit Nightwing. We remember and we. Will. Punish.

The Natural Way

20:19 / 05.07.08

One thing about the costume. Honor's shopping trolley, which is in Bruce's possession at the end, appears to contain, in almost every panel, purple rags. I figure he was just patching the already tattered suit up.

20:46 / 05.07.08

Perhaps not the observation of the century, but the junkie guy had the Bat-radia in a black-and-red-chequed case. We'll be hearing more about it next ish, I'll wager.

21:18 / 05.07.08

If you don't buy in to Morrison's stuff, and enjoy Batman looming in the rain and fisting rapists in teh face, cracking femurs and applying big grim stubbly spankings, then I imagine an issue featuring drugged-up Brucey, a spirit guide who may be a hallucination, a being from the 5th Dimension, and Batman wearing a purple, red, and yellow costume might all be a little too much.

Ya see, to me that guy - the fisty, looming fella - is exactly the sort of dude that hallucinates all sorts of weird shit. The idea that he'd get on the horse is a no brainer.

22:04 / 05.07.08

Ya see, to me that guy - the fisty, looming fella - is exactly the sort of dude that hallucinates all sorts of weird shit. The idea that he'd get on the horse is a no brainer.

And we're reading that story. From what I can work out, RIP seems to be about purging the old "I am the dark! I am the night! I am fear!" and bringing back the "I am the hair! I am the chest! I am the lovegod!". Not that I was expecting this to involve our boy shooting up and seeing 5th dimensional beings, mind, but lets be reasonable; he's fucking earned it.

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