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Underground > Comic Books >

Marvel's 'Civil War'.

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rabideyemovement

14:55 / 22.02.07

hmmm... i just read on Marvel's site that Electro busted open the Raft at the behest of the Savage Land mutates who wanted to free Sauron.
But that doesn't exactly sound right to me.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:57 / 22.02.07

No big death in this issue, then? Which means it must be happening in another title - and I wouldn't be surprised if it was Captain America #25...

15:20 / 22.02.07

i saw electro do it with my own eyes

well, in a comic, think it was probably a bendis avengers trade

15:37 / 22.02.07

The idea I think Bendis & Co. are intending is that there is some master manipulator pulling the strings of the Sav. Land mutuates who engineered the Raft breakout.

15:38 / 22.02.07

Yeah, what about the 'no death' thing? The stories after Civil War (a lot of them, anyway) are called FALLEN SON, right?

Could they be killing resurrected Bucky/The Winter Solider in CAP #25? That would be odd, as they just brought him back to life and everything a year ago.

18:58 / 22.02.07

I haven't read anything in this thread, so I expect I already have allied in this:

Is anyone else completely unimpressed with CIVL WAR?

It seems like all the action is taking place in other books (Peter's unmasking aside), and the mini is just a clearing house for us all to catch-up. I've only bought one CIVIL WAR tie-in issue, and that was the realy,really bad PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL #3.

But if I'm wrong, and the monthlies are, indeed, the place where the action is... well, that just makes it worse.

Haus of Mystery

20:30 / 22.02.07

Welcome to comics, my son.

21:58 / 22.02.07

Well bearing in mind that 'the death of Peter Parker' is being flagged up as a forthcoming Spider-event, I suppose they might kill off Steve Rogers in Captain America #25, and have Bucky Barnes take over the stars and stripes mask after a fight with the Punisher, and ... I'm boring myself just typing this really.

I normally quite like Mark Millar, but he does seem to be crusing for a bruising after 'Civil War, the wee jobby. Had the project been called something like 'Milk The Fanboys' to be followed by earth-shattering developments in 'And Then Bleed Them Dry' that might at least have been honest; as it is, he seems to have dragged the whole company into crossover hell for no reason it would be easy to explain to anyone other than Marvel's board of directors. You'd have had to buy about forty comics to keep up with all this, and for what? For what I ask you?

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

23:24 / 22.02.07

Why does everyone expect someone to die in cap #25?

The stories after Civil War (a lot of them, anyway) are called FALLEN SON, right?

No. A) Fallen Son is a 5 issue mini series and B) it's... and this is rediculous... according to PREVIEWS its only a placeholder title with the real title to be announced after Civil War.

Me? I see Cap's book dealing with the fallout for Steve Rogers being where he is and with more Winter Soldier stuff while I figure we're at least going to get a few months (say 4) where Frank Castle is Captain America (as led up to quite nicely in Civil War and Punisher War Journal). And given that Bru and Fraction are writing partners, I can see them working that angle for a while.

Me? I actually liked Civil War. Other than some glarring issues, I think it was Marvel's must successful and interesting giant x-over in years. It's actually got me excited to read Marvel books again.

Aha! I am Klarion

00:10 / 23.02.07

On Civil War#7
It was the complete antithesis of Seven Soldiers (lots of fighting...but I don't really care)...it was all a big battle and not a particularly good one. Oh and Clor's head 'sploded. Did not live up to a sliver of hype...the illustions all seemed to stiff...it was not even a double-sized issue...abosulutely nothing cool (or even kewl) happened.

01:34 / 23.02.07

Other than some glarring issues, I think it was Marvel's must successful and interesting giant x-over in years.

Talk about damning with faint praise.

03:37 / 23.02.07

Yes, it was the bestest smelling turd ever!

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:15 / 23.02.07

The thing is, some of the developments arising out of Civil War have been interesting, and some of the other titles affected have been good (basically Brubaker and Bendis' stuff: the latest issue of New Avengers that introduces their post-CW line-up is both great fun and strangely affecting). Somebody was complaining in another thread about how Captain America had become a right-wing asshole circa the run on his title immediately prior to Brubaker's (in which Steve Rogers gives his stamp of approval to Guatanamo Bay), and at the very least, Civil War has done a lot to change that particular situation.

Still a rubbish series, though, in "real terms".

10:00 / 23.02.07

On the subject of the continuity fuck ups, this last ish had a particularly weird, if small one: Tony's smug, superior comments to Maria Hill.

Didn't she ASK him to take the role on?

Yes she did. Strange way to act in light of that fact.

Then there's this bizarreness from Newsarama re the official issue 7 planning notes given to the writers

His [Cap's] big problem is liberties being taken away by people he doesn’t know and can’t trust and so he says to Tony that he and his guys will ACCEPT the registration on one simple condition: That it isn’t the government that holds all the secrets. Sure, the person in charge can be accountable to the government, but he wants a super hero to be in charge of this. The person he wants, the person he trusts most, is Tony.

The thinking has been remarkably unjoined up on this project. Doesn't bother me much, but I do find it slightly puzzling.

12:16 / 23.02.07

That's amazing (the last post). Reading the end of issue 7 - I didn't get that idea at all. That should have been in there somewhere. Instead it reads as if Captain America just gives up.

rabideyemovement

14:00 / 23.02.07

There's absolutely no way Steve Rogers would trust Stark with shit at this point, certainly not as head-director of SHIELD. He didn't drop the fight because he's changed his philosophy. He stopped the fighting because he realized he'd already lost the battle in the eyes of the public, until the fighting seemed pointless.
I've enjoyed every bit of this Civil War, especially number 7, but if they try to change Cap into a character sympathetic with the registration, then they've just wasted six months of brilliant character development.

Cap's going to stay anti-reg, otherwise what's the point of Zemo's plan to set him free from the Negative Zone?

14:00 / 23.02.07

I imagine the page count probably factored into it, but it's a very odd thing to be putting about the Internet when it didn't actually happen in the pages of the comic.

Writing comics after the fact in the columns seems to be the new thing.

14:26 / 23.02.07

Last post to TPK.

I think that's part of the reason why he dropped the fight, Rabid, I think another part is that he realised that innocent people were being endangered by his civil war.

As for the explanation offered above, it really doesn't ring true, does it? I'm finding it hard to fathom why Marvel would be hawking it on the Internet's most popular comic site.

rabideyemovement

14:26 / 23.02.07

For anyone who's interested in some post civilwar spoilage...
here's an upcoming Punisher solicit.

PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL #7
Written by MATT FRACTION
Pencils and 50/50 Covers by ARIEL OLIVETTI
BLOOD AND SAND, PART 2
“I want Frank Castle -- the scourge of the underworld -- to die in the Sonoma desert playing dress-up.” With that line, the all-new Hate Monger begins the execution ceremony of the Punisher -- and nothing will ever be the same. Massacre after brutal massacre along the border brought Frank to the desert, but what horrible things does he find hiding behind the killings? What atrocities could possibly drive Frank to don a new costume? And how could it all go so terribly wrong? The American dream continues to become an unholy nightmare for Frank and everybody else in his orbit.

14:28 / 23.02.07

Of course it should have been in the comic. They had more than enough pages to tell the story properly. I just counted and in the last issue NINE pages are blooming splash pages with little or no dialogue at all. Two or three - fine. But NINE? No wonder there was so little plot & story & character.

rabideyemovement

14:30 / 23.02.07

I don't take anything said in the columns and outside the comics as being concrete. Those editors at Marvel do so many interviews and take so many phone calls now, they could easily be squawking out their ass on this one. I don't buy it as canon.

In my mind, Cap is remorseful, yes, but he could never relent to Tony's fascist methods of enforcement. It just should not happen.

14:47 / 23.02.07

>Writing comics after the fact in the columns seems to be >the new thing.

as pioneered in new x-men and the pages of barbelith.

15:02 / 23.02.07

Rabid, I completely agree. Not because I think Tony's a fascist* (although my reading of Cap was that he thought Tony's methods were heavy handed, brutal and totalitarian) but because the story simply doesn't read like the man actually changed his mind and got to a place where he'd be happy letting Iron Man run things.

As for canon, who knows - it might transpire that the aforementioned stuff gets trotted out in a future issue of Captain America - there's certainly room in the CW narrative thus far for that to happen. Of course, it might just be bollocks that's been abandoned or forgotten.

Either way, there's been a bunch of storytelling done in the columns recently, mainlyunderthe guise of exposition, and it's weird and wrong.

I know the editors have a lot of column inches to fill these days. I just think stories should be told in the comics and not on Newsarama.

*I really did struggle to see CW as anything like genuine political comment, particularly in the pages of the actual comic. Afterall, in the real world you'd be nuts to side with anyone other than the pro-reg guys

Uatu.is.watching

16:12 / 23.02.07

For the record, that quote from Newsarama has been taken out of context. When asked if the ending changed from the original pitch, Brevoort showed excerpts of a planning memo for Civil War from the point (12/05) in which it was supposed to be a 12 issue series. He acknowledged that some of the info changed when the book made it to print, but not the ending. This wasn't a case of re-writing the story on the blogs, but a case of showing an early draft that didn't come to pass.

16:53 / 23.02.07

My bad.

Thanks for bringing the clarity, Uatu. Got a little carried away there, didn't I.

Not the first time.

16:59 / 23.02.07

I don't know, Uatu. To me, a lot of that interview read like the ramblings of a fish-eyed lunatic.

I could almost hear him crunching his knuckles, grinding his teeth while his gaze remained entirely focused on the journalist throughout...

04:25 / 24.02.07

From the NYC ComicCon coverage, about the fact that Maria Hill suggested that Tony Stark head SHIELD and in CW #7 he's being snarky and condescending to her...

>> Originally, Maria Hill seemed to advocate the idea of Tony being the head of SHIELD—is there a change in her character now after the coffee incident in Civil War #7? Quesada said “there may be a reason Tony acting like that.”

Hmmm....I guess that's something that will be revealed in a future issue of something. But of course it would be better if such things were actually mentioned in the pages of the actual Civil War miniseries.

Also, as to who is the "Fallen Son," Joe Q. simply say "Ya gotta read the book!"

06:31 / 24.02.07

I put it down to Millar being a habitual writer of dicks. I find it to be an elegant explanation.

07:44 / 24.02.07

They're making a movie of 'Wanted' now, you know. It's to star James ('Shameless') MacAvoy and (I think) Morgan Freeman, plus a big Hollywood name who's yet to be revealed, and be directed by whoever it was that did 'Nightwatch.' It's due out in March '08, and reading between the lines, Mark's battling hard to get the last scene into the script, which I think will play out great in cinemas around the world.

I am not making this up.

09:11 / 24.02.07

(Thread in 'Films' for discussion of the above - I wasn't going to say much, but it's too potentialy teddibly, teddibly awful not to, damn it.)

14:29 / 24.02.07

Boboss raises an excellent point. Better than any other explanation for the time being!

rabideyemovement

14:35 / 24.02.07

Tony's a dick because he's being mind controlled by Miriam Sharpe... There's no reason an explanation should have been in the Civil War comics, because the reveal of who's manipulating everyone is still so far off... Quesada even said that it could be two more years before the Initiative storyline comes to fruition.
I had hoped Hulk's return this summer would have cleaned the slate and brought some normalcy, but apparently its not going to. It's looking more and more like these govt-sponsored super-teams will be the new norm.
Its like Suicide Squad 616.

rabideyemovement

14:37 / 24.02.07

Millar is excellent at writing people as dicks, it is true! Name one Ultimate who isn't a complete asshole.

Spyder Todd 2008

16:49 / 24.02.07

.... Thor? Maybe?

17:23 / 24.02.07

Name one Ultimate who isn't a complete asshole.

They're all flawed individuals who make some questionable decisions, but aren't they basically more likeable because of that? Perhaps it's my age (75) but they feel propwrly fleshed-out - I'd maintain that Bruce, Steve, and Henry in particular, are solid character studies, in a way that hasn't really been done in comics before. I'd suggest reading the material again, while taking careful note of how your sympathies are manipulated.

Then again, perhaps I'm just a degenerate.

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