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Underground > Comic Books >

Marvel's 'Civil War'.

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17:59 / 01.03.07

YEah because Cap , would never think . Oh wait are these real civilians . Ive only been alive for nearly a century. But as im a liberal im hopelessly naive.

Now wishies the Annaliation wave had hit Earth

Ho hum.

18:09 / 01.03.07

That remix, however, makes me smile greatly, even if it reminds me I have a puerile sense of humour.

18:13 / 01.03.07

And a superstitious one, too, as I bump this thread off of it's six-hundred-and-sixty-sixth post.

18:36 / 01.03.07

Now wishies the Annaliation wave had hit Earth

Had that happened in the context of story we've been given, it would be, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst endings to a series ever.

19:11 / 01.03.07

Nah, that'd be political commentary on a high order: While the humans who arguably have some of the best positions, financially, socially, and on account of the whole posthuman badass superpowered and living in mansions and towers and floating satellites of glory... while they were busy squabbling and bullshitting and punching each other to prove how right they were... the whole planet was destroyed by green insects of death from another dimension and mad machinations beyond our lowly earth-ken.

And it would force every title into the Marvel Universe into a high-drama storyline which really does effect the whole MU for real and forever. Until, say, Gladiator or that Squadron Supreme guy smacks reality around enough to get the whole back on track and normal.

19:54 / 01.03.07

It would be fucking shit.

20:23 / 01.03.07

These are not lies.

20:25 / 01.03.07

Although, hold on while I find the link, Granny - Paul Jenkins wrote a decent Hellblazer, bit slow, and Inhumans was decent, but what in the name of fuck is this meant to be?.

20:27 / 01.03.07

Goddamnit Cap. You got beat by fire chief?

And Quesada's 9/11 heroes?

Man, why did I deend this shit when it first started? I guess because I'm a Cap mark, and the series was very cap-centric. I'll just get back to my Brubaker Cap comic now Mr. Millar. Sorry your big event wasn't as well received as you'd hoped.

20:35 / 01.03.07

"I've got it, why don't we turn Tony Stark into a villain!"
"Naw, it's been done."
"No, but this is the kicker... we don't admit he's a villain. We just have him do tons of evil out of character shit and deny and deny..."
"The fanboys will puke! Hey, maybe we can do it with other characters too!"
"Maybe we can do it... with all the characters!"

23:00 / 01.03.07

Der Falke;

It's quite something, isn't it?

Really, I jus hope he was chuckling to himself when he wrote it.

You can imagine the conversation;

'No, what you don't understand, Paul, is that the readers are meant to be on Tony's side.'

'What?'

'I love Tony. I think he's a cool dude.'

'But, but, wait a minute ...'

'You heard me Jenkins. You understand English, don't you?'

'Yes, but it's just that I thought ...'

'Aye, right, well you're not paid to think ye bloody wee cock. Sort it out, now!'

'How am I supposed to do that though Mark?'

'That's Mr Millar to you! And I'll refer you to the final splash page in 'Wanted', should you feign any further ignorance of the power dynamic at work here!'

'Right ...'

'And dinnae try and f***ing argue with three hundred thousand-plus sales neither! I am the fucking king! Even if all the other writers at Marvel hate me now, I did what I had to to save the f***ing company!'

'Um, yeah ...'

'So get on with it! Meanwhile, unlike my pal Tony I can have a big drink, ye wee radge!'

Etc, etc.

23:48 / 01.03.07

You forget the hilarious dismissal of something Jenks', as I like to know him, from outside his window, etc, etc. likes that Millar doesn't as paedophilic. "Going outside to mingle with humanity in general, Jenks, you pedo?! Chuckles, meatball, sugar, honey, etc."

04:13 / 02.03.07

Mm. On the other hand, while Millarworld is in many ways ... well it is what it is, at least Mark feels as if he can post there regularly.

I appreciate that this a bit 'pie in the sky', after everything that's happened, but wouldn't it be nice if other leading lights in Scottish comics felt able to play a similarly active role in websites that were ostensibly all about them and their work?

Well I think it would, anyway.

07:15 / 02.03.07

have you forgotten Wife-gate so quickly? or was that delated from barbecontinuity by the scarlet witch? am i the only one cursed to remember?

08:41 / 02.03.07

My sweet lord, I had no idea that the Marvel Universe was so broken - it's like a really bad keeping up with the joneseys thing - "DC have let some scottish writter play with all their big guns and re-write the unierse from the the ground up" "Damn, we better match them, any ideas?" "well, there was this guy with a fancy moustache and a can of special brew spitting at people outside - he sounded scottish" "bring him in, and give him a summer event!"

08:45 / 02.03.07

Keep punching the walls of story, doctor.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

20:04 / 03.03.07

Jack, you realize those panels are from a (often very funny) parody don't you? The "9/11 heroes" are no-where to be found in the actual book.

Mightygodking and crew took and re-lettered the entire series. It misses the point a lot of times, but other times it's brilliant.

22:54 / 03.03.07

Mate, absolutely.

22:55 / 03.03.07

Mate, absolutely.

18:00 / 04.03.07

This parody is a pretty good summation of Civil War's efforts at political commentary.

21:00 / 04.03.07

Once upon a time, I asked: "Could there be anything stupider than Secret Wars?"

Once upon another time I asked, "Could there be anything stupider than Infinite Crisis?"

Now...

I already know the answer to my question, and I thank the gods for torrents.

14:13 / 08.03.07

I thank the gods for torrents.

That pretty much sums up how I feel about 99% of continuity-based comics.

18:26 / 08.03.07

i like that guy's art.

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

20:10 / 10.03.07

As an aside, the Bill Hudlin Black Panther Civil War tie-in issues are really danged good.

12:34 / 12.03.07

Why was Captain America fighting Iron Man?

A law was enacted that made operating as an unregistered superhero illegal. It's a law, and it fell to Iron Man and Co. to enforce that law.

There are laws against selling drugs, but you never see drug gangs shooting up police stations in an effort to legitimize the drug trade. There are laws that permit environmental degradation and pollution, yet you don't see Green Peace killing police officers in an effort to tighten up regulation standards. People who regularly break the laws go about their business, and only ever engage law enforcement when they're caught in the act, and even then, they do what they need to do and get away as quickly as possible.

Yet Captain America and crew seek out those folks enforcing the law they disagree with, in the expectation that the law will go away. That’s not how these things work.

To change a law, one protests, writes legislators, starts grassroots efforts, etc. No law was ever changed by killing those people who enforce laws. At a minimum, people who violate laws do so as discretely as possible-- just like Captain America had to operate out of the shadows when he refused to be a government operative: he became The Captain, Johnny Walker became Captain America, and Steve Rogers was still able to go about doing his daring-do, just more covertly than before.

It would seem to me that a more interesting story could have been told by way of having Captain America and various other superheroes appealing to the common American, via web sites and commercials, and the like, asking them to contact their Congress person to repeal the SRA.

Now, I don't mind comics being written for kids, filled to the brim with slugfests-- that's probably what drew most of us to comics to begin with-- but when a writer dresses up a story in adult-themes (like the quasi-social metaphor that was the basis for CIVIL WAR) I like to see the characters acting like adults.

But then again, I did buy all the CIVIL WAR issues, so maybe my dollars speak more loudly than does my on-line commentary.

12:53 / 12.03.07

Like ALL of them?

anyway

It would seem to me that a more interesting story could have been told by way of having Captain America and various other superheroes appealing to the common American, via web sites and commercials, and the like, asking them to contact their Congress person to repeal the SRA.

really? As much as I've yearned to see a superhero comic about grassroots attempts to repeal govt. legislation, I don't imagine it would be 'more interesting' or, indeed, even 'less embarrassing' than the final product.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:09 / 12.03.07

Yet Captain America and crew seek out those folks enforcing the law they disagree with, in the expectation that the law will go away.

Man, I'm no fan of the Civil War miniseries, but criticisms of it tend to be better if they reflect what happened in it. Which this doesn't. The two major fights between the two forces are an attempt to apprehend the anti-reg people on the part of the pro-reg, and an attempted prison break on the part of the anti-reg.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:16 / 12.03.07

I was going to say that, but then it struck me that Captain America already knew that Tigra was a spy, and so presumably was expecting Iron Man to be tipped off about the jailbreak. I don't entirely understand _what_ his plan was, there. I thought that perhaps it was to get Tony Stark to gather the heavy hitters on the pro-registration side, then bust out the anti-registration prisoners using Hulkling, _then_ escape, sealing the pro-registration superheroes and controlled villains in the Negative Zone until.. well, until something else happened which allowed them to be let out on Captain America's terms. Not sure where that plan would go. I assume that this was why Dagger and Black Panther were heading for the portal controls.

13:25 / 12.03.07

Man, I'm no fan of the Civil War miniseries, but criticisms of it tend to be better if they reflect what happened in it. Which this doesn't.

I'll hide behind the notion that the story was never all that engaging, and as such, remembering the actual story simply isn't possible.

That's right: it's the story's fault, not mine. That's what I'm sticking to.

On the plus side, the art was really, really nice.

really? As much as I've yearned to see a superhero comic about grassroots attempts to repeal govt. legislation, I don't imagine it would be 'more interesting' or, indeed, even 'less embarrassing' than the final product.

It would have been original, at least.
And, come on, when you describe it like that, of course it will sound dry. There would be aliens, too. And the Infinity Gauntlet, and some other stuff.

...I really do sometimes have good ideas. Even if my last post doesn't support that claim.

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

13:35 / 12.03.07

I'm honestly still a little fuzzy about what's changed.

Vigilanteism was always illegal in the MU, right? JJJ was always yelling about Spider-Man: Threat or Menace because what he was doing was technically illegal. Cops were always getting on Petey's case about this stuff, and he was always arguing with them, webbing their guns, etc. etc.

So, pre-Civil War:
Vigilanteism is illegal. People like Spider-Man choose regardless to put on outfits and fight crime as free agents. Some police and government officials turn a blind eye to this, others choose to pursue and try to arrest the vigilantes. The government has some "licensed" pet superheroes such as Freedom Force and SHIELD Super-Agents to handle their super-crime problems.

Post-Civil War:
Vigilanteism is illegal. People like Captain America choose regardless to put on outfits and fight crime as free agents. Some police and government officials turn a blind eye to this, others choose to pursue and try to arrest the vigilantes. The government has some "licensed" pet superheroes such as the Mighty Avengers and Thunderbolts to handle their super-crime problems.

I guess there's a shade of difference in that it's now overtly illegal to have any metahuman advantage and not register yourself, but as a bit character in Black Panther said, "what, if I save someone from drowning I'll have to register?"

What makes somebody a "hero," or "super," is hard to define. If I go jogging and I jog 10% faster than most of the other joggers, will I have to register? What if I'm an exceptional architect and notice that a building has inherent structural flaws, saving the lives of thousands? Am I Super-Architect, bound to serve the government with my Architect Powers?

The beauty of the anarchic "vigilante system" is that anyone can rise to the occasion with whatever gifts they have. Now Marvel writers are saddled with a cumbersome plot device that's totally unfeasible.

Maybe Millar's three steps ahead and anticipates the disintegration of the Registration Act based on the above, but I somehow doubt it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:43 / 12.03.07

I always hahhahahahahhhahahahahahhaahhaahave a Plan B.

Can you guess what the "B" stands for here, readers? Give you a hint: it rhymes with "tumtape".

Uatu.is.watching

14:15 / 12.03.07

It would seem to me that a more interesting story could have been told by way of having Captain America and various other superheroes appealing to the common American, via web sites and commercials, and the like, asking them to contact their Congress person to repeal the SRA.

I think Captain America would have a hard time reaching and relating to the common American. You know, since he doesn't know what myspace is and doesn't watch Nascar, the Simpsons, or stupid Youtube videos.

15:05 / 12.03.07

Regrettable Juvenilia

23:22 / 12.03.07

I dunno about "America's ideals", but surely Steve Rogers knows who won the world series? Jenkins you hack!

23:30 / 12.03.07

Plus Cap's hotline predated the internet by several years.

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