well, i think
there are bigger problems with barbelith
than people who don't use the shift key
and talk in breathy wee bursts

(caps lock IS SOMETHING ELSE. I'd rather people DIDN'T use it)

Are you really proposing that we force people to write in properly capitalised and structured sentences, Flyboy? That seems a bit draconian, even if we ignore that it's pretty much an attack on one person. And how will you enforce it? Have moderators going round adding capitals everywhere?

Ganesh

14:16 / 29.11.05

Introduce capital punishment?

(Ho not very ho.)

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:30 / 29.11.05

Well, there's a fine example of how the post critiquing might go.

Mourne Kransky

19:23 / 29.11.05

people hwo don't capitalise should be chastised.

Can I chastise toksik please, pretty please...

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:29 / 29.11.05

I for one choose to believe that toksik is secretly archy the cockroach and this belief makes me all warm and happy inside. If he starts using the caps lock it'll all be spoiled.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:34 / 29.11.05

Yes, I think the problem with caps lock is it looks like people are shouting, and reads like a tract. Neither of which I really get from no caps at all.

grant

20:17 / 29.11.05

toujours gai, toksik
toujours gai

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:10 / 30.11.05

A friend recently asked me if it was bad that ze instinctually - sorry, instinctively - read the posts of people who do not punctuate or capitalise in a stupid voice - I think that pretty much sums it up. You're free to write however you wish, if you're prepared for the reaction it may cause.

The problem with a posting style based around one-sentence paragraphs is not that it _looks_ untidy, but that it doesn't really provide a second gear, which tends to lead to long delays and threadrot - in essence, it makes other people do the work you don't do yourself. One might compare and contrast its opposite, the lengthy, unparagraphed spiel rambling across seven or eight topics and a lenghty personal recollection of that time Jmmy took mushrooms and totally thought he was an alpaca.

Ganesh

10:52 / 30.11.05

A friend recently asked me if it was bad that ze instinctually read the posts of people who do not punctuate or capitalise in a stupid voice

It does sometimes seem the merest hop 'n' skip from 'teh' and !!!!11!!1!1!!!.

Ganesh

13:03 / 30.11.05

Feel a bit arsey quoting myself, but

I'm slightly surprised when they appear in the more 'serious' discussions, prefacing their post with, "I haven't read the whole thread, but..."

Absolutely classic case in point. While I don't want to come down too snobtrolly on Virgin Queen (who has, as yet, posted barely a dozen times) that thread's actually one of the more nuanced ones, and includes contributions from the author of the article that was initially discussed. It's since moved on to a more general discussion of how healthcare systems are/should be structured for trans people. There are especially good reasons for reading that thread in its entirety.

I've pointed this out with only minor snarkiness (considering the poster in question is already making reading recommendations) and Virgin Queen, to her credit, is apparently now going through the thread. I really do think we ought to make more of a point of this, though, generally speaking.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:22 / 30.11.05

At least ze didn't introduce hirself again.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:26 / 30.11.05

Oh, and going back to something Ariadne said:

even if we ignore that it's pretty much an attack on one person

There's really no need to do that.

Char Aina

13:29 / 30.11.05

i think she was doing that for your sake, bro. an attack on one person isnt the same as an attack on one person's style.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:35 / 30.11.05

Right. I have asked Virgin Queen in-thread to stop posting until she has read the thread. I'm happy to move anytihng more she posts half-cocked for deletion, and i don't think it's facist to do so. Otherwise the next three pages of this thread will be impulsive responses to each post previously. Frankly, she's pretty much providing a masterclass in how not to post to the Head Shop.

Flyboy, toksik: I think there's the opportunity for a whole new thread about irritating posting styles. Why not start it?

Lurid Archive

14:35 / 30.11.05

Passing over what I sincerely hope is a typo rather than a spelling mistake Haus, I think we should bear in mind that Virgin Queen is new and cut them some slack. Deleting posts is a little heavy handed, and likely to discourage someone who seems to be genuinely enthusiastic about the topic.

So, yes, not reading a thread is bad form but we should remember that the mores of Barbelith aren't self evident...people learn and adapt and while we should stop them being disruptive, we should also encourage new posters or at least not intimidate them too much. I suppose I am slightly more concerned about Barbelith stagnating than in the poor quality of posters...though these may be related.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:41 / 30.11.05

Well, I'd say that the quality of that thread has pretty much nosedived in the last eight posts or so, but I have high hopes for its improvement.

Oh, and facism.

Loomis

14:53 / 30.11.05

You forgot the h.

Spatula Clarke

14:53 / 30.11.05

For reference, we've covered this ground before. It's just rude and arrogant to jump into a thread, and effectively say "I've not paid any attention to what the rest of you have been saying, but here's what I think. I may well be repeating the contents of a number of posts, but I really don't care." it's not a difficult concept to get to grips with and it's not something that's peculiar to this mode of discussion.

As far as this specific instance goes, it looks like it's maybe already sorted itself out. Not before time - it's not like Ganesh hadn't already asked that VQ read the previous contents of the thread and pretty much been ignored - but at least it might finally have sunk in.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:00 / 30.11.05

And I have moved to have my kind offer to help out emended, to respond to Lurid's concern that it might be considered unwelcoming.

Lurid Archive

14:55 / 01.12.05

I felt really pleased with myself for being so super observant as to spot a typo...now I'm just crushed. By an in-joke all the cool kids knew about.

But yes, Randy, you are largely right (though I do think that other messageboards operate differently) and I'm not disagreeing on substance. My point is more about tone and how it affects the board, in terms of what style of posting is encouraged. I think this is especially relevant if you take Flyboy's concerns about the number of female posters seriously, for instance.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:34 / 01.12.05

Well, I think there's a difference between being nice to people because they're women (or in this case femme-identified) and generally trying to create a safe space for women. Generally, I approve of the second aim and not the first.

If you mean that an adversarial setup is more likely to be locker-roomy - yeah, I totally get that, and I think going fightfightfight is definitely something to try to avoid in almost all situations (ahem). OTOH, there's a very good argument in those terms for reading threads before posting to them - VQ managed to insult Ganesh by profession and David Batty by name on the assumption that no doctors or David Battys would be contributing to the thread.

Ganesh

03:13 / 03.12.05

And now feels Batty and I myself are making trans people feel unwelcome. Hm.

Lurid Archive

12:16 / 03.12.05

If you mean that an adversarial setup is more likely to be locker-roomy

Yes, thats what I was getting at though I realise that I'm hardly averse to arguing agressively myself. Everything you are saying about VQ is true, of course, but posters learn by their mistakes and we should give them the space to do that. Having said that, I think that Ganesh and others are doing a fine job in the Trans thread when it would be easy to be rather more defensive at VQs expense.

I don't think that this - being overly adversarial - is something we always do wrong, but it is something we might bear in mind.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:01 / 03.12.05

Ganesh And now feels Batty and I myself are making trans people feel unwelcome. Hm.

I'm not seeing that in the thread. Has it been edited out?

Ganesh

17:24 / 03.12.05

Well, arguably I've overstated the point myself, Lady, possibly as a result of residual stinginess from the "gender-normative fascists" thing. Virgin Queen didn't couch it that strongly. She said

I wonder weither my, or any other Gender Varient person's voice, is entirly welcome on this thread. I do not mean that anyone here is engaging in overtly discriminatory behaviour but consider some of the things said here:

[variety of examples overextended from points made by David Batty and myself]

Given how much this invaladates my subject-position then how can my views be as valid as those of other people posting here.

That's it, really.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

12:13 / 06.12.05

You know what's a shame? The fact that Yawn comes along, posts crap to bump a load of old threads to the top and there's nothing you can do to sink them back down to the deep. Thanks Yawn!

Char Aina

13:09 / 06.12.05

i'm not sure i understand the gripe, dude. arent threads meant to be permanently open unless locked?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:56 / 06.12.05

It was the pointless bumping of old threads with content free posts that I was complaining about.

The Falcon

20:43 / 06.12.05

And yet, somehow, it seems to have stimulated further conversation in the majority of these threads. How can this be?

Why didn't you just pm yawn your concerns, lady?

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