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All-Star Superman

 
  

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Mug Chum
23:58 / 24.01.07
I'm not so sure there is that much of confusion in terms with the identities of Clark X Superman, Papers. I always saw -- maybe except for the "mirror oh mirror" scene -- like it was intended to look like he's a guy who's got pretty much together.

---------------

That sun-eater thing I always thought it was weird (yeah, it was made so that Lois would feel alienated and 'miss-read' things and fall into paranoia; but even so, it sounds such like an excuse. That whole "Lois, the room doesn't look like a dark creepy massive dungeon with a domesticated slave beast light-eater if you could see what I see, he-heh"). Maybe it's just Sups' version of a pet, besides Krypto.

On a side note... Did anyone else ever thought that panel's image of Sups throwing the Sun-glitterdust looks a bit like a god creating a universe, stars and time-space? And on that note, the Sun-eater reminded me vaguely of Flex's "The Absolute", and it made certain sense with Sups dealing with his own finish, the cycle of universes being born so it'd be engulfed by darkness etc. Sounds sort of like "Shiva's Dance", but still ultimately cryptic and weird (and I love how it looks like he's taking those glitter-dust from the yellow of his shield -- gave a new light in my head to that wonderful funny scene in Superman 2).

Issue #2 is weird.
(Or I just might be in the need to sharp my sense of humor towards it)
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
14:59 / 25.01.07
nominations are up for http://www.eagleawards.co.uk

you can share your love for ASS by voting in several categories [Jamie in two, if I recall].

I also voted for PHONOGRAM and CASANOVA in some of them.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:40 / 25.01.07
I'm not so sure there is that much of confusion in terms with the identities of Clark X Superman, Papers. I always saw -- maybe except for the "mirror oh mirror" scene -- like it was intended to look like he's a guy who's got pretty much together.

I think it's more a case of "Who he is at home (in Smallville) and who is at home (in Metropolis)" than confusion between secret identities. We all compartmentalize our lives to some extent and Superman's no different - in telling Lois his secret he's broken down a mental barrier, but that doesn't always mean that he (or we) are necessarily comfortable with the transition that follows. He might have it together but his world's been shaken by (1) Lois knowing his selves and (2) his awareness of his own mortality/mid-life crisis.

And on that note, the Sun-eater reminded me vaguely of Flex's "The Absolute", and it made certain sense with Sups dealing with his own finish, the cycle of universes being born so it'd be engulfed by darkness etc.

I like Superman keeping a Sun-Eater in his fortress because it contribues to the Sun God's fall into darkness before rebirth -- he's made peace with his own death which allows rebirth. He might not realize it on a conscious level yet but it's symbolic of his struggle.

. Sounds sort of like "Shiva's Dance", but still ultimately cryptic and weird

Like that, especially given Morrison seems to be sexing Superman up a bit more than he was in the Silver Age.
 
 
Mug Chum
17:46 / 26.01.07
#1 just came out here in Brazil as "Great Stars: Superman". Weird reading it in portuguese. Like a bad-dubbed film. Maybe I just need to give it another chance, but it feels like the change messes up the entire issue's rhythm, character's "voices" (in the sense of what's behind such lines, dynamics and intonations etc). Usually I just stick with the original issues, but my curiosity and it's cheapness (and nice printing) will make me have at least two copies for each issue, it seems. At least I'll have a spare to read without caution, like when I was a kid (I think that was the creators' intention to begin with, but it's just so shiny!).

-----------------

And never noticed before but reading again the blue giant scene, Agatha is quite wide-eyed by the... hum... let's just say "Big Blue", sort of called back to Kitty Grant's scene. (so appropriate having Sups-in-entirety almost juxtaposing IT -- and so appropriate a protagonist having such dirty-sounding (nick)name).
 
 
Mario
16:46 / 27.01.07
Friend of mind spotted another possible error:



Shouldn't Bizarro have a backwards S?
 
 
Evil Scientist
19:13 / 27.01.07
Obviously post-Crisis Bizarro. Cloned, so the costume was pre-made by Lexcorp thread-monkeys.

Do I win a no-prize? Or was that the other guys?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:31 / 27.01.07
It's actually too bad that it's not reversed, because you can almost play a game of "how many S-shield variations" there are in the series (especially given how they had to "edit" Quitely's redesign).
 
 
Triplets
07:10 / 28.01.07


We've also seen Klzzzk Klyzzznntlk before in the Giant Size DC One Million issue. Tres Grantische.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:09 / 29.01.07
"...while Bat-Mite here was keeping watch disguised as your entire galaxy..."

I like Quitely rendition better, I think, withe 5-dimensional fractal S-shield. But, cool. Super-Mite.

So! Bizarros am next! Anybody have favourite Bizarro stories? I keep gravitating to the Bizarro Comics Anthologies books but nothing Silver Age sticks out...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
03:54 / 29.01.07
that panel of the chess board has always confused me, Mario. Does this mean that Bizarro already exists in the ASS universe? I've been understanding the series as Bizarro will be created by a Quintum project gone wrong (next issue would be the assumption). So perhaps that's not intended to be "Bizarro" on the chess board.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:05 / 29.01.07
I suspect, and the chessboard suggests, there's already a Bizarro #1 in A*S, and he's been referenced before in the Bizarro clones at P.R.O.J.E.C.T. I wouldn't be surprised if the original Bizarro wasn't part of Quintum's inspiration for the endeavour, because he proved that Superman could be duplicated, if only imperfectly. Not having a reversed S-shield could just have an artist's error.
 
 
Eskay Uno
06:07 / 29.01.07
So who can we contact about producing t-shirts and action figures based on all the different Supermen From A*S#6? Superman Prime's yin/yang golden s-shield is especially cool.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:10 / 29.01.07
Shouldn't Bizarro have a backwards S?

Did you miss the part where it's on his back?
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:32 / 29.01.07
Does this mean that Bizarro already exists in the ASS universe?

I think that's what can be inferred yes.

There's an interview with the baldy-headed one in the now-abandoned original ASS thread (I think) where he mentions having an entire Cube Earth version of the JLA show up with Bizarro.

I seem to recall the Pre-Crisis Bizarro was a Lexcorp experiment that eventually went to live on Cube Earth (which appeared randomly or was created by Superman in that whacky way things were in the Silver Age), so Quintum's worker drones and what have you are probably just extensions on that.

(I'm wondering if the reason the big B is attacking Earth is to free...umm sorry "enslave" all those drones. It struck me as a little dodgy to have all of these superhumans bred as, effectively, slave labour).
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:42 / 29.01.07
(I'm wondering if the reason the big B is attacking Earth is to free...umm sorry "enslave" all those drones. It struck me as a little dodgy to have all of these superhumans bred as, effectively, slave labour).

That's actually a pretty astute theory, and would make for a cool story, only I think there's a Bizarro Plague or something in the solicits? But, yeah, the Tyranny of Bizarro! would be fun.

And I'm pretty sure "Lexcorp" wasn't a Pre-Crisis factor, as Lexy was a career criminal with some questionable funding sources (ie stolen).
 
 
gridley
17:43 / 29.01.07
Yeah, pre-crisis Bizarro was the result of some forgettable mad scientist's duplicator ray. Lex's version is post-crisis.
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
18:22 / 29.01.07
Hih, I prefer duplicator ray to cloning. It's more fun.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:40 / 29.01.07
Did you ever read the Tomorrow Stories Splash Brannigan tale with his imperfect, white-out duplicate? It was a miracle of weird. Imperfect Duplicator Rays are mint.
 
 
Mug Chum
06:41 / 31.01.07
re: Bizarros & Quintum

I'm mostly hoping the issue will 'come back' to what it felt for me like one of the hugest unfinished business in the whole series: Superman's void reaction to the slave labors, and him "killing" the human-bomb (yeah, I know, he just made the inevitable happens somewhere else -- but I always figured Morrison would never have Superman be in a situation like that, and if he did would be for him to save the day with zero deaths. I'm still thinking the death was important for plot's sake, part of Luthor's meddling with the sun).

At the time I felt it was one of those moments where he doesn't show his cards immediately by throwing out a huge speech about the wrongness of it (Morrison said this is a Superman that doesn't talk all that much, he just show up and does his thing) -- one of the reasons why I'm thinking Quintum is "ok, don't buy into the dude just 'cause he flashes at first glance like a new age rainbow psychedelic maverick liberal Willy Wonka scientist". Also felt that maybe it was to give a humanitarian "ok" seal to the "imperialist boyscout" the Big Blue has been (seen as, lately). Maybe it was about recognizing his undeniable nature as a "Walking U.S. Flag", accept it and move on trying to play him up into a humane/Jesus/PrimalHero/worldly figure without the imperialist-colonial vibes. But it seems there's more to Quintum, beyond these basic binary traps and colors, even though they're solid foundations in play (Issue #1's first half is basically the colors from Sup's lore in each environ, adding them up until Superman's appearance, the "critical mass" -- except for the Daily Planet: the most "Malkuthian" down-to-earth-and-life stage).

I always assumed Quintum was the quintessential Morrisonian figure: the positive all-colors-from-solar-spectrum practical friendly cool-cat figure, the most primal thing about the idea of the 60's on people's heads. But the slave scene and a few other things make me think he's on Luthor's scheme, even if unintentionally. The fact that he's on the dark side of the moon might eventually come up again thematically (without just relating to the "Sun setting" theme played in #1 -- from "nothing is impossible" to "fuck it, I'm exhausted" --, or the moon curse from Jimmy or Superman's unleashed dark side in #4).

Either that, or one last bit I can't quite put my finger on. Just something vaguely on the idea that even the most unnatural things are nature's course (even if it's to counter-react to itself, learning from it, balancing itself, taoistic entropy etc). Or just a weird allegory for pro stem cell research sacrifices ("genetically modified human bombs have no soul"). :P

Just want to see where the Bizarro thing goes and what frame will be solid next time I read the bizarro-slaves from issue #1 and #4.
 
 
Mug Chum
06:44 / 31.01.07
And I agree with Stone. I'd definitely buy a "Ying-Yang S" T-Shirt.
 
 
Triplets
08:26 / 31.01.07
"killing" the human-bomb

Yeah, but I am Death!!'s entire life is about reaching that moment where he explodes. It's his "salmon swimming upstream to die and spawn" moment. If Superman were to "save" him it'd be fucking up the biggest part of Death's life cycle. MAKING him live would be akin to Supes killing a normal human. Supes isn't about messing with the natural order (too much).

I've just realised I Am Death!! is, possibly, the best Reverse Superman anyone's ever made. He's the antithesis of everything Supes is, he's not calm, he's not contained, he doesn't absorb power, he IS power. Supes is a font of life and tries to save the entire human race. Death's entire life is to die and take as many people with him as possible. But that's his lifecycle, to do anything else would be going against their dharma.

Death set up a running theme throughout this book, "what is the natural order of life?".

Same with the Chronovore, it eats lives, but it's also come to Metropolis 1984 (or whenever) to have kids. It literally swam back up the timestream like a 5D salmon.



Superman has come up against at least 6 avatars of Death. 6 Little Death's if you like. I Am Death!! (apocalyptic extinction and personal death), Doomsday (the death of a friend), Atlas and Samson (death through being replaced, being made obsolete), the Chronovore (death of a parent), Ultra-Sphinx (death by chance), and Luthor (the death of opportunity, why Clark screams that they could have been friends etc). They're all preparing Clark for the final death.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:45 / 31.01.07
Sparrow - I always assumed Quintum was the quintessential Morrisonian figure: the positive all-colors-from-solar-spectrum practical friendly cool-cat figure, the most primal thing about the idea of the 60's on people's heads. But the slave scene and a few other things make me think he's on Luthor's scheme, even if unintentionally. The fact that he's on the dark side of the moon might eventually come up again thematically (without just relating to the "Sun setting" theme played in #1 -- from "nothing is impossible" to "fuck it, I'm exhausted" --, or the moon curse from Jimmy or Superman's unleashed dark side in #4).

Hmm. Superman = Sun God, highest self, "guardian angel" routine. Quintum = The Moon, the imagination. Jimmy and Lois are our lovely Malkuth-Babies, and each one is elevated - Lois becomes a sun-goddess when she gets the exo-genes, and Jimmy goes up to the Moon to be P.R.O.J.E.C.T. director...for a day(!). And he's got to use the qlippoth of Superman to stop him. I don't know. Maybe a pointless avenue of thinking.

As Superboy, Clark goes to the Moon and then as Superman he goes to the Sun - his progression upward?

No, wait, maybe Lois becomes a moon goddess to Superman's sun; The Kiss is on the moon, her power emphasis is more on poetical examination of super-senses, and she sleeps at the end in a weirdly Endymionic way.

Is P.R.O.J.E.C.T. on the dark side of the moon? I always thought it was on the bright side, watching over the Earth as part of its "back-up Superman Family" routine.

Triplets - Death set up a running theme throughout this book, "what is the natural order of life?".

Makes sense with how passive Clark is about his impending death. Even if you ignore the evidence we have that he'll survive in some form (thank you, Quantum Uncertain Newspaper of Tomorrow!), he's been more concerned with putting his affairs in order and righting past mistakes/oversights (coming out to Lois, trying in a weird way to understand or reach out to Lex, seeing Pa Kent one last time to put his own death in perspective) rather than some desperate race against time to save his own day and render the P.R.O.J.E.C.T. Super-drones unneeded.
 
 
Mug Chum
18:19 / 31.01.07
>>>>>Superman has come up against at least 6 avatars of Death.

I would add the clones as well in the category of replacements. I always read the scene with Sup's dark side unleashed punching clones in #4 as part of the fear of death and replacement. You know, "Saturn devouring his son" and stuff like that.

-------------

Re: Lois as Moon(-Love?) Goddess
Yes! Was I the only one who assumed they made love on the moon (something about the way all those craters were in the background and the two were in a empty space, waiting to be "marked" to the return of the moon's significance of imaginationXsensuality -- or just marking it like Jimmy's "I love Lucy").

And I don't think the qlippoth line of thinking is a far fetched one. I think it sums up the closest what Black K exposure is in terms of the plot-character and meta-context. Qlippoth is the grim cocoon of meaningless, the nihilism in the dark empty shell of something that lost it's meaning and point. Superman's icon and state of significance in the grim grittyness of the 90's and "Death of Superman".

Jimmy's friendship saved the day - more than fighting, ass-whooping and debasing Sups into a toy store as Doomsday, as if "that's where you belong, silly thing" (after Supes is pissed shouting "you point dumb gun at me": the gun that labels him as silly and dumb) amidst the grim gritty mock-reenactment from the 90's Death of Superman. The friendship was what brought the day together in the end, that little colorful "silly" watch filled with significance, joy, togetherness and friendship opposing the state where a empty Superman is thrown in the "silly dumb toy" and attempted to inject "seriousness", rock-steroids and grit.

I fuckin' love this comic. All that from 7Soldiers, Flex, Invisibles is just the flowing river as base here.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:50 / 31.01.07
I would add the clones as well in the category of replacements. I always read the scene with Sup's dark side unleashed punching clones in #4 as part of the fear of death and replacement. You know, "Saturn devouring his son" and stuff like that.

Incidental as it stands but another "avatar of Death" might be meeting himself as a young man - and, as well, meeting up with Bizarro - because of that notion of "meeting yourself on the road" = Death is coming (or has already come). Mash that up against Tim Hunter & Molly O'Reilly entering Hell in Books of Magic and meeting the "No One" character who mirrors them in silhouette.

Yes! Was I the only one who assumed they made love on the moon (something about the way all those craters were in the background and the two were in a empty space, waiting to be "marked" to the return of the moon's significance of imaginationXsensuality -- or just marking it like Jimmy's "I love Lucy").

I'd almost hazard to say that it was intentionally left ambiguous, whether they consummated up there on the Moon or not. The scene plays out as chaste, but I think it works well because there's room there to see it either way and have reasons/logic behind both. Having worked through the paranoias and madness associated with the relationship (Madwoman Lois gets back for years of Superdickery), Lois is elevated to become Superman's physical equal now that their relationship is in a healthier, more open place and she's been anointed to lie with the Sun God (Think of Dionysus's mother exploding at the sight of Zeus's true shape -- Lois has been prepared against potential violence). Additionally, because you could argue that Lois hasn't fully worked through their relationship (depends on how you read her ribbing of him in the Dino-Czar's realm) and that it's pressing forward a bit too quickly for someone as even-tempered as Clark, the scene can remain chaste and have similar impact.

I tend to think they made love, up there on the moon - which does resonate with Jimmy's I Love Lucy because Jimmy's looked upon by others as he looks upon Superman, and Lucy is similarly a "Little Lois." Fractal relationships.

Jimmy's friendship saved the day - more than fighting, ass-whooping and debasing Sups into a toy store as Doomsday, as if "that's where you belong, silly thing" (after Supes is pissed shouting "you point dumb gun at me": the gun that labels him as silly and dumb) amidst the grim gritty mock-reenactment from the 90's Death of Superman. The friendship was what brought the day together in the end, that little colorful "silly" watch filled with significance, joy, togetherness and friendship opposing the state where a empty Superman is thrown in the "silly dumb toy" and attempted to inject "seriousness", rock-steroids and grit.

Which is why it's important that Jimmy holds Superman in his arms, naked-vulnerable in the way that Superman's emotionally-vulnerable -- the signal-watch brings Jimmy out of his Nineties Stupor just in time to remind us that, for all the Kewl Fight Scenes, we'd be lost without the love.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
20:46 / 31.01.07
"Shouldn't Bizarro have a backwards S?"

Did you miss the part where it's on his back?

What on the what now?
 
 
Triplets
23:08 / 31.01.07
All together now: it's on his back. It's back-wards.
 
 
DaveBCooper
11:59 / 01.02.07
Arriving late at the party, and little to say other than to echo the general feeling that this was a terrific issue. Class on all fronts.

Also, in relation to earlier posts about Supes being Jesus-like, isn't 'Kal-El' hebrew for 'Voice of God' or similar?

And could there be any significance to the haircut/raincoat-colour of the chap sitting in the background in the diner? Maybe more than one person has a time machine...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:59 / 01.02.07
All together now: it's on his back. It's back-wards.

Perhaps I'm being a big idiot (certainly possible), but this doesn't make much sense. If you put the word "Superman" on the back of a t-shirt, put it on someone and stand in back of them, it still reads "Superman." It's not like putting "ambulance" backwards on the front of an ambulance so people can read it in their mirrors.

If that's Bizarro on the chessboard and the symbol is meant to be a backwards S, we as the viewer standing behind him should be seeing the symbol backwards.

So back to the original question: Error or does it mean something?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:56 / 01.02.07
Presume error until it becomes apparent otherwise.

I'm such a nerd, I'm probably going to catalogue all S-shield varients contained in A*S so far later, and significance / symbolism / et cetera therein.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:57 / 01.02.07
Aside from all the 'back' wordplay that's going on here, it's not necessarily an error. Just possibly a different visual representation of Bizarro that Quitely has selected.

In the post-Crisis (the first one) Byrne revamp, the "S" on the red cape was the same as Supes' cape S. In that version, Bizarro's "S" was just darkened on the front chest area and I think the same as Supes' regular all-yellow S on the back (going off the idea that he was supposed to be a clone of Supes and therefore was given a costume that looked pretty much the same as Supes).

The Bruce Timm/Paul Dini animated series Supes and the movie "Superman Returns" Brandon Routh costumes have no yellow S whatsoever on the back (the animated series nixed it because it was too bothersome a detail in animating the cape, and the Bryan Singer production team nixed it for similar reasons, in that many shots in that film had the cape's movement being CGI-created).
 
 
Mug Chum
20:14 / 01.02.07
I always assumed the s was on the back (either that, or my toilet training is all wrong).

That was something that bothered me in Superman Returns, after looking at ASS#1's cover all that time (something in the way it looks like the exit-hole of the sun-bullet through his heart is one tiny thing that hooked me -- even though I preferred Quitely's original roundish diamond better).
 
 
FinderWolf
04:03 / 03.02.07
Ok, back to the He-Man-esque link of random Quitely drawings:

As a promotion for Ult. Spidey #100 , Marvel produced 100 (!) sketch drawings by various artists, including 2 by Quitely, pretty much almost everyone who's ever drawn Spidey and even lifetime DC veteran Dick Giordano, Neil Gaiman and Guillermo del Toro (!), and you can see them

HERE. Spidey Quitely Goodness, along with many many others...

Quitely's is at least 1/2 way down - he actually drew 2.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:34 / 03.02.07
great find, er... Finder!

the one with him carrying the bags just sums up what makes Spidey great: a guy with a regular life [most of the time] that happens to be a superhero.

and it was good to see Romita Sr's Mary Jane again.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
15:48 / 03.02.07
Nice link, Finder, the groceries sketch is indeed great.

I like how Ed McGuinnes actually drew two covers, yet neither included Spidey.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:40 / 03.02.07
Quitely shopping Parker.

Possibly it is time for a Quitely Thread. Or: a thread for comic-image googlemancy.
 
  

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