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All-Star Superman

 
  

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vajramukti
04:25 / 03.12.08

I remember being uncomfortable with him because there was this bizarre looking new character getting all this face time in what was supposed to be a self contained all encompassing take on a superman book. as much as lex, lois, jimmy, anyone besides supes himself. it doesn't make any sense until you know why he's there. all the thematic stuff you mention is magnified when you realise that IT IS lex and you're supposed to feel a little weird about him.

people also felt a little ambiguous about the ending because there is the vague implication that lex wins. but, of course, superman always wins, and the proof is that redeeming lex is a victory that trumps lex exiling superman into the sun. superman not only changes humanity, but he beats luthor in the only way he could, short of killing him...he changes lex's mind. by letting lex see through his eyes and finally giving him exactly what he wanted.

I would be amazed if anyone read it again in this light and didn't buy into it. it's incredibly obvious in retrospect.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
05:52 / 03.12.08
I don't know, for some reason your reading strikes me as being too literal for its own good -- maybe it works for you in a "Jack Harper in John A'Dreams" fiction-suit deal. Lex and Leo are two sides of a central concept (i.e. SCIENCE! Both bad and good), and two sides of the same argument (Superman's influence is detrimental! Superman's influence gives us the opportunity to reach even farther!), which is why I like them being separate characters, meeting only the once (in a sense).

Leo's invocation of the Devil is the result of him being aware, as an ethical scientist, that he's a fallible human being. Superman's reaction is simply the result of him having faith in all those fallible human beings.

As for Leo having the last page, well, I stand by the idea that he's ultimately the most obvious author-surrogate (if you ignore the idea that all characters are the author in disguise, even Steve Lombard) and the last page is a moment of metafiction, Morrison pointing out his position in the bigger tapestry of Superman stories (there's always a sequel, there's always a continuing saga, there's always a new art team).

Leo, you indicated, annoyed you for having face time (before you generated this Leo-is-Luthor reading) because he's a new character and this is supposed to be an "essential," self-contained story. His presence doesn't alter that goal, but he's just one of the toys that Morrison places in the toybox while shining up the oldies. Zibarro's fresh as well. Solaris isn't new but is Morrison-specific. The Saurian warrior from below ground was also a new toy. They're given space because it's polite and fun and pert and popular for a writer and artist team working on a mainstay character like Superman to bring in new ideas and concepts while working with the old. I would expect the same from any writer -- and I would say that these new toys are part of the reason that All-Star Superman is something super-goddamn-dreamy in comparison to those drecksome Elseworld stories that recycled the Clark/Lois/Lex dynamic but always felt like stagnant retellings (But it's the Civil War! But he's a Communist! Krypton invaded Earth! Do you see? DO YOU SEE?) rather than living, breathing stories.

Shit, now I have to reread the whole thing so I can cry about Zibarro and stare dreamy-eyed at Jimmy bloody Olsen some more. Thanks for that.
 
 
vajramukti
13:01 / 03.12.08
well, let me be clear: this isn't my invention. I saw other people putting it forth on the internet, and while I thought it was a cute notion, I was not expecting the sheer weight of textual stuff to support it. GM does everything short of telling you outright that leo is lex, and in the first issue he even does that, after a fashion.

I surely have no problem with new characters. I was just baffled why this new one was taking sych a central role in the superman myth that grant was weaving. I realise he fulfills a role as supe's benevolent science-buddy, and I agree completely with all the thematic and metafictional readings as well. ultimately I think the text simply supports it, and it only amplifies the other elements of leo's inclusion. greatly so. the fact that he's a transformed lex raises superman's myth to a whole other level. this story is meant to be the capstone, right? he's off to the sun for centuries, so it gives a final, implied resolution to the superman/lex struggle. It's actually amazingly clever on grant's part; the battle has been over from the first issue, we just didn't know it. it has that in common with the various zenith books, for instance.
 
 
Spaniel
13:24 / 03.12.08
But it's not a fact, is it? It's ambiguous in a is Batmite real or isn't he? sort of way. I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that the text doesn't *insist* on that reading. As Paper's points out, it doesn't have to be quite that literal.
 
 
vajramukti
13:42 / 03.12.08
sure. but I guess it depends on what constitutes a 'fact' in the story. I guess a better way of putting it, is 'did grant intend this to be there?'. and given the amount of writing and art that points to it, I'd have to say yes.

the 'are you talking to yourself?' thing is too clever to be anything but intentional, and along with the numerous visual cues, it seems clear that you're meant to think this, or at least consider it. no it doesn't need to be that litteral, of course, but that works both ways. there are a number of elements that are not explicitly stated in the series that we're meant to take as givens.

I've got no problem with anyone who chooses not to take it on, but I'm just saying that I'd be suprised if a close reading wouldn't convince most people.
 
 
Spaniel
13:54 / 03.12.08
No, no, I think you misunderstand me. Of course we're talking about authorial intent, I'm just not sure there's anything in the text that *guarantees* that your reading is the intended one. To be clear, I'm not saying that Grant definitely didn't intend to make this reading available - as you say there are things in the text that point towards it, which would suggest to me that it may well have been on his mind - but it's certainly the case that other, less literal readings are also supported.
 
 
Automatic
15:15 / 03.12.08
I think you make some very interesting arguments concerning Leo being Lex. However, it does raise the question as to why GM hasn't mentioned this in any of the post-mortem interviews he's given, especially when he's been so seemingly candid about every other aspect of the comic.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
15:28 / 03.12.08
Well he's not been the same since he got married, has he?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:23 / 03.12.08
The one reason that I think a darker reading of Leo as being directly Lex Luthor somehow changed and disguised doesn't work for me -- skipping the fact that it's a bit too literal, like I say above -- is that this would be a lot bleaker than what Morrison has described as the intent behind this series. He has referred to All-Star Superman as being essentially positive, uplifting science ficion. Authorial intent may or may not be irrelevant depending on your position, but I think that having Lex win in that fashion (except maybe pushing Superman enough to hit him back once) undermines some of the hope and possibility that bears out at the end of the series.

Leo works better for me as an reflection of Lex. He works better for me as an example of what man can be like with the influence of Superman -- you could look at him as a stand-in for Batman, kind-of-maybe, even. He's Jimmy Olsen all grown up. You can put a lot into him. You can put a lot into him on a symbolic level, because he seems pretty straightforward to me on a literal level.

Leo exemplifies one of the undercurrents in the series, which seems to be unwarranted suspicion (and possibly problematic, yes, but largely unwarranted). "I could be the devil himself for all you know, Superman." / "I'd like to think I'm a better judge of character than that, Professor." He's not alone. I can't help -- and this is partly Quitely's work, and Jamie's -- but draw a parallel to "Calvin Elder" showing up at the Kent Farm, lit up by tractor light. He's a super-hero from the future but the first shot with him and I think axe murderer. We're trained to see a possible villain in Quintum, a possible villain he might see himself (being in touch with that dark). Krull attacks Metropolis and you know. Giant talking lizards. Never mind that he was goaded into it and that otherwise the Saurians are pretty peace-loving. When we first see Zibarro, beloved Zibarro, who was ready to assume badness on his behalf? I was, a little bit. Which is why it breaks my heart a little bit when Clark makes friends with him and then has to say goodbye. Or hello, depending.

Having Lex transform behind the scenes into Leo and go back in time seems needlessly complex and I would argue isn't directly supported by the text. You could make similar arguments that he's Jimmy Olsen gone back in time, or Brainiac 5 in makeup, or Myxlkptlk. I'm not convinced.
 
 
vajramukti
17:01 / 03.12.08
well, I would say that it actually speaks to the underlying optimism of the piece that lex can actually become the caretaker of superman's legacy. I don't see it as dark, or as lex 'winning' in any way. It actually elevates the theme to a whole other level. that's why I like it.

every character moment for lex in the series is wrapped around his vanity and his hatred of superman. who can tell what kind of person he would become when he's broken, humbled and lessened by his experiences, when all that hate and vanity is taken from him?

All I would say, to close, is that leo looks like lex, ( with the addition of a suitably ironic set of glasses and some hair) has many of lex's qualities, dresses like lex, demonstrates an implied knowledge of the future, and there are at least a couple strong inferences that it is him, and not, jimmy, or whomever.

You could certainly read it many ways, yes, but I'm more than convinced. your milage may vary.
 
 
Spaniel
08:22 / 04.12.08
I think you’re overstating your case. Assuming we’re interested in authorial intent (which I generally am, at least to some extent), I have to say that “more than convinced” is rather strong language to deploy when describing a reading which simply isn’t guaranteed by the text. As I said above, it’s quite possible that Grant wanted this reading to be in there, but that he didn’t want it to be conclusive - he has a track record of that sort of thing, after all.
 
 
vajramukti
13:30 / 04.12.08
well, I'm certainly not trying to steal away anyone's right to hermeneutic uncertainty, or dispel the air of ambiguous tension that grant seems to enjoy cultivating. I just feel strongly about this reading, because for me it elevates the work to another level and even if you only add that reading into the mix of other readings in tension, it's still quite compelling, I think. my opinions are just that, nothing more or less.
 
 
Spaniel
14:21 / 04.12.08
Fair enough.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:21 / 04.12.08
It's nice to talk about A*S again, though. I'm thinking about Morrison's approach to Lois right now, and how successful he was with her. Might throw something up when it's more coherent.
 
 
Jamie Grant
15:27 / 04.01.09
Leo is one cool cat. I did his eyes David Bowie multi-colour and hair Lord Jagged blonde. Some readers throughout the series suspected him as a possible baddie but maybe they just sensed his greater work, revealed on the very last page.

The trade collection of issues 7 to 12 should be bouncing their way to your nearest comicshop shelf sometime soon.
 
 
Spaniel
19:49 / 04.01.09
It's the absolute edition that I want, boyo!
 
 
Mario
16:37 / 05.01.09
Likewise, hopefully with lots of nifty commentary.
 
 
Jamie Grant
10:42 / 24.01.09
The second trade hardback appeared at the studioffice on Friday (24th Jan 2OO9). Expect it'll be in the shops v' soon if not already.

Regarding the full 12 issue book that'll be out in future... The creative team hope there will be NO sketches, burble or comments added to pad it out. No fiddling with it - let it stand as a full story. Explaining anything destroys the magic!
You'll find Grant and Vin share similar attitudes towards 'fillers'.

-- Jamie Grant
 
 
Billuccho!
02:11 / 25.01.09
The possibility of an Absolute tempts me. I have all the singles and I never pony up the dough for an Absolute. But for the majesty of ASS? I will part with my moolah.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:18 / 17.09.11
Bump
 
  

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