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Princess
12:41 / 18.04.07
Epop. Epop. Epop.

I mean, why does he exist?
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:51 / 18.04.07
He's not back is he?
 
 
Quantum
13:00 / 18.04.07
No. Causing trouble elsewhere on the net, you really don't want to know.
No, if he comes back here I'm getting out the banhammer on the spot.
 
 
Princess
13:01 / 18.04.07
No, not exactly. But he's been doing awfullness on the Ultraculture boards, and BiaS has been helping.

It's spilling over into the Ultraculture thread in Temple and some posters have, unsuprisingly, jumped up to defend his assertion that all African diaspora traditions are "protection rackets" run by bloated psychic parasites.
 
 
Princess
13:02 / 18.04.07
Sorry, x-post.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
13:53 / 18.04.07
Apparently, this is his myspace [link deleted].

Surprisingly, Grant Morrison is not among his friends.

As you can see from his 'photo, Epop combines the sexual magnetism of Caesar the Geezer with magickal prowess of a young Dumbledore.

This is one of his much-talked-about-on-Barbelith attempts to punch holes in global problems: [link deleted]

Apparently, he did a presentation about it at the Pentagon in December 2006.

He also doesn't like Vodoun/Voodoo, so don't invite him 'round to watch 'Live and Let Die' because he kills Voodoo spirits on site, and he thinks the bedrock reality of India is basically a 1.2 Billion person Hogwarts. Does this mean, I wonder, that there's a sorting hat that divides the population into Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Christians, Jews etc? And if so, who are the Hufflepuffs?
 
 
The Natural Way
14:22 / 18.04.07
The man likes 'ethno-techno'. I mean, is there anything else to say, really?

Ethno. Techno.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
14:30 / 18.04.07
Only that he claims that women speak more than men

Yup, real blabbermouths, women. Nag nag nag.
 
 
The Falcon
14:36 / 18.04.07
He is my single least-favourite poster here of all time; there was some tough competition (saltation, that Holocaust denial dude although what forum's not had one of them by now?) but the man is just a fucking winner.

And, Jesus, the one man mission to make April 'Rape-ril' continues to stunningly nauseating effect.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
14:40 / 18.04.07
(a) I'm really okay with the twee "Lovely Man / Partner In Crime" whatnot. I think it's personable and adds some colour, to be honest.

(b) Genuine curiosity: how did this Epop person ever get anyone to take him seriously in the first place? Everything I've ever seen from him (which consists largely of here, which to be fair might not cast him in the best light) makes him look like a ranting, self-important fabulist incapable of backing up even the slightest of his weird assertions. But he seems to hold some currency in some circles. What is up with that?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:45 / 18.04.07
Magic.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:48 / 18.04.07
Meanwhile, the rest of us have to get by on charm and good looks.
 
 
Princess
14:54 / 18.04.07
%Of course, being of Hogwartian descent, it's not suprising that he rose to a position of respect%
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:05 / 18.04.07
I'm just fucking disgusted by the whole thing. Fucking disgusted and fucking angry, and fucking sorry for anybody who has the grave misfortune to be mixed up with this person.
 
 
Quantum
15:06 / 18.04.07
I dunno if I'm happy outing posters via their myspace page, personally. I may loathe and detest the man* but he has a right to anonymity just like anyone else.


*a lot. Like, really, really, if my loathing were a fish it would be this one;



...and if it were a rock it would be this one;



...but I still think we shouldn't give away people's identity. I don't want to criticise him for his appearance or music tastes, I want to criticise him for being a git.
 
 
Ticker
15:11 / 18.04.07
(b) Genuine curiosity: how did this Epop person ever get anyone to take him seriously in the first place? Everything I've ever seen from him (which consists largely of here, which to be fair might not cast him in the best light) makes him look like a ranting, self-important fabulist incapable of backing up even the slightest of his weird assertions. But he seems to hold some currency in some circles. What is up with that?

In some circles that's the way you are encouraged to speak about your work. If you've only encountered magical discussion via our own Temple it is vastly different from most magical discussion spaces. Humilty and respect for other experiences is sadly not the norm.

Many modern magic workers are not working in a long standing religious framework but in a self generated one. Or even more problematic are the ones who have have studied a religious magical system and then set up shop on their own without unpacking what they were still carrying over.

IMO this person believes they have freed themselves from the tyranny of various systems but is blind to the tyrant within themselves.
 
 
Papess
15:19 / 18.04.07
Incredibly insightful, XK.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
15:20 / 18.04.07
Given that Ol' Epop has, as I demonstrated above, a relatively easy to link to web presence which includes details of his global problem punching silver tent and an interview describing him as an 'Evolved Occultist', I'm at a loss to see why he was so coy to back up his Al Gore / Alan Moore claims in his banning thread, and instead dragged BiaS in to vouch for him?

I like this Shivanath/Epop 'fansite' too, on which is reproduced an email he sent back in 2005:

From: Shivanath
Date: February 2, 2005 6:17:48 AM CST
To: Adityanath
Subject: Re: No problem.

I am absolutely capable of making and breaking the containers which comprise magical orders, and have the weight and power of the fully alive nath lineage behind me.

I hereby strip you, and your guru, of your teaching power, and close the Internanational Nath Order.

Now, see if I'm full of shit or not.

Shivanath


Seems he's closed the connectors before...
 
 
Whisky Priestess
15:23 / 18.04.07
Matt: I'm sure the nicknames don't annoy you. My point is that they annoy me, hence the post. I'm all for this sort of sweet loveydoveyness in the private context of a consensual, adult relationship. It just gets up my nose when it's bandied about in public. Public displays of affection (people snogging on the tube, etc.) eek me out a bit too.

(Christ, I really am a killjoy aren't I? Sorry.)

The Flybettes, on the other hand, is a quite acceptable term for the carefully-chosen group of laydeez with whom the Flyboy spends his lovin' time. I'm not sure I could remember all their names anyway, there's so many of them ...
 
 
Ex
15:26 / 18.04.07
If you look carefully, our names appear just below the 'Flybettes' slogan on the sweater. In smaller type, obviously. (And mine's spelled wrong, as well.)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:31 / 18.04.07
I dunno if I'm happy outing posters via their myspace page, personally. I may loathe and detest the man* but he has a right to anonymity just like anyone else.

Yeah, probably agreed, although he doesn't exactly make it difficult. I'll move to delete the post above and see how the other mods feel about it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:42 / 18.04.07
Basically "what XK said" up there. I mean, you've all heard me piss and moan about the Temple and Barbelith generally often enough, but you will note that I've never got round to buggering off because as public fora go this is still the best thing of its kind on the net. Fuckssakes you should see some other comms. Being a prevaricating, self-aggrandising, delusional dipstick and savaging any systems other than your own is practically hard currency in a lot of places.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
15:42 / 18.04.07
To reply to Quantum

I dunno if I'm happy outing posters via their myspace page, personally. I may loathe and detest the man* but he has a right to anonymity just like anyone else.

I don't know Epop/Shivanath personally, I was just following the 'paper' trail he left on the Ultra Culture site, which has already been linked to on Barbelith.

And, given Mattshephard question about why Epop/Shivanath is taken seriously in some quarters, and XK's response, it might not be a 100% bad idea to link to his various web turds, if only to prevent the gullible from being taken in by him. Remember, he is absolutely capable of making and breaking the containers which comprise magical orders. This doesn't bother me overly

Then again, if the mods feel that linking to this stuff isn't on, or sets a tricky precedent, I'm happy to have it deleted.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:44 / 18.04.07
I'd argue that his Myspace is a public site. It's not that hard to find if you wanted to look for it. Not like we're publishing screencaps of his friendslocked entries or something.
 
 
HCE
15:56 / 18.04.07
I agree with Quantum. His looks and his depressing MySpace are not really relevant. What he's said here is miserable right on the face of it. His Barbelith posts alone are such a wealth of damning material that making cracks about his presence elsewhere seems a bit unnecessary, like writing somebody a ticket for jaywalking when you've already busted him for a felony.
 
 
Quantum
16:26 / 18.04.07
Exactly. I know it's public information that's easy to access, but really that's not the point. It's easy to laugh at someone's style or speculate why the US asked him to leave but really that's neither here nor there, we could do the same to most myspace pages I suspect.
I'd rather highlight his appallingly offensive behaviour online than laugh at his ridiculous image. It just seems more like ripping on someone because they are disliked and thus fair target, rather than ripping on someone for saying 'rape' a lot as a rhetorical get-out-of-jail-free card and generally being a toxic life sucking arrogant misguided troublemaking inflammatory arsehole.
I'm pissed off that his disgusting antics have messed up what seemed to be a cool project. It seems a shame trolls have so much power to fuck things up, like someone kicking over a sandcastle. Excuse the platitude but it's easier to break than make.
 
 
grant
16:34 / 18.04.07
making cracks about his presence elsewhere seems a bit unnecessary, like writing somebody a ticket for jaywalking when you've already busted him for a felony.

Once again, Paul, you have crystallized my very thoughts....
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:51 / 18.04.07
OK - compromise. I will mod to remove links which identify him by name - his birth name, rather than Shivanath, and see what the other moderators think.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:52 / 18.04.07
Nah, this whole thing is bringing out my Petty-Minded Little Bastard, everyone ignore what I said.
 
 
illmatic
16:59 / 18.04.07
I dunno if I'm happy outing posters via their myspace page, personally. I may loathe and detest the man* but he has a right to anonymity just like anyone else.

I agree, Quants, and I'm glad Haus is taking the actions he suggested. I'd encourage others not to dig up his writings and pour scorn all over them. Lest we forget, no one knows if he's actually been banned yet. Let's not attract him back, eh?
 
 
illmatic
17:05 / 18.04.07
In that we do not know that Tom has banned him and got rid of the suit. Speaking personally, I have close relationships with several of the people directly involved and I want to do the best I can to fix these up. Having significant numbers of Barbeloids digging up Shivanath's writings and pouring scorn on doesn't seem likely to aid this process.

Having said that, I understand people are angry and want to vent. Do so if you wish, I guess, but it's probably not going to do anything in the long run.
 
 
The Falcon
17:11 / 18.04.07
I've agreed the request there.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
17:26 / 18.04.07
Blair is a self-important, lying fucker who waged war under false pretences, and I agree that that should be shouted from the rooftops, but surely there's a little room for mocking those photos of him in a 'double denim' shirt 'n' jeans combo, too? If so, maybe we can (while not equating him directly with the PM) apply the same principle to Epop? There's been plentiful highlighting of his appalling, offensive online behaviour both here and at ultraculture, and quite right too, but maybe some good old fashioned piss-taking is also called for? After all, reasoned argument hasn't made a dent in his behaviour - he just responds by claiming to be (and I quote) world class. Maybe mockery is a much more effective tool, if not in turning him around then maybe at least in helping BiaS realise he's defending not only a hugely objectionable magi-turd, but a ridiculous magi-turd, too? Also, I think there's an strong argument for thinking that while taking Epop seriously over a protracted period of time might inflate his sense of self importance and bring him back a-trolling, taking the piss out of him is likely to discourage him. Many people relish the idea of a fight, but far fewer relish being laughed at.

it's easy to laugh at someone's style or speculate why the US asked him to leave

Hadn't considered speculating on why the US asked him to leave. I'm guessing it's probably because of that meeting at the Pentagon about the Hexayurt. Rumsfeld doesn't look like the type to respond well to the news that Grant Morrison's gone off the boil, or, for that matter, to someone trying to sell him a six-sided tent. I mean, six-sides, at a meeting in the fricking pentagon ? That's one side too many, Epop. What were you thinking?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:17 / 19.04.07
Today I'm Barbannoying myself. How dare I ruin a thread about a guy killing people with guns with a conversation about guns. Thank God people have set me right.
 
 
electric monk
19:48 / 19.04.07
Fable of the Bees, with all due respect, I really don't think mockery is going to accomplish anything, other than a further hardening of hearts. It's really not up to us to get all Coyote/Jester/Trickster on BiaS or Epop. They've made their feelings very clear on this, and I doubt heaping scorn on them (when they may or may not even be reading) will do anything other that stretch this out over a longer period of time. Our energies, now, are best used elsewhere I think. Please, just let this hideous episode end. Personally, I feel no need to ever read another word by or about Epop or BiaS, and am Barbannoyed that there's even a chance of this madness continuing. Let it go, my friend. Let it go.
 
  

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