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Olulabelle
20:27 / 19.04.07
Whisky, I refer to my son as The Lovely Boy and part of the reason for that is because I don't want to announce his name. The other part is that I can't get my head around the ownership quality of calling a person 'my' anything. I have real problems with that, always have.

I also refer to the person whom I live with and love as The Beautiful Man, because I think S.O. is dry and cold and it makes me think of something military, and the words boyfriend/girlfriend makes me barf because none of us are boys or girls. He's not my husband so I can't say that and wouldn't anyway (the my thing again) and the word partner is really ambiguous and also involves the 'my' thing.

Lover is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

I spent ages trying to decide how to refer to them. I started doing it on my blog because I wanted to talk about them without using their names. When I refer to them I usually use the terms TBM and TLB. Names but not names, you know? On occasion I revert back the full title when I think that people who are reading might not have any idea what TBM and TLB mean. That's because referring to the person you live with and love as 'Brian' if that's what his name is, is really arrogant. It assumes that anyone reading should know the name of the person you choose to have a relationship with and should hold enough interest in you to remember it. On a message board that's a big assumption. It's like people who post, "Oh Jane and I were shopping.." and you're left thinking, "Who the tits is Jane?"
 
 
HCE
06:48 / 20.04.07
I have not seen the Man but the Boy is in fact particularly Lovely, so you are at least factually accurate.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
08:19 / 20.04.07
I'm obviously creating my own little stir of Barbannoyance here with my curmudgeonly grumblings. What the hell - it's my prerogative to have my own unique, bizarre hang-ups and squeamishnesses (is that a word?)

Olulabelle: Likesay, I'd be happy if people just explained first, once, and then referred to their lovers, kids, whatever by name, nickname, or pseudonym in future posts - OBVIOUSLY I don't want you to refer to your child by his real name online - if you have another look at my initial post you'll see that that's not what I'm asking at all.

Maybe a good example of what I mean is when Triplets refers to his ex as S. or Jack Fear to his wife as J. (is it?) - we all know who they are talking about, and if we don't we can pretty swiftly work it out from context. Or like when Kali was going out with "Spike" - it was pretty clear from her posts who he was and what relationship he had to/with her and it just felt more grown-up to me to read a name or nickname rather than a coy circumlocution.

Also, the Jane problem is not avoided by the Lovely Boy thing - I for one have always thought when you used this term that you were referring to your significant other. Admittedly I probably haven't been paying the fullest of attention, but I hope you see what I mean ...

Anyway, sorry if my first post upset you - I didn't mean to attack people, just express my annoyance using some examples. I wasn't particularly thinking about you and your terminology, and had I been I would have apologised in advance, as I did to Triplets and Kali when I used their terms for their LoverOtherWhatevers to show what I meant.
 
 
Janean Patience
09:04 / 20.04.07
In the wrong thread, but can I just say I always liked it when one poster referred to "the future Mrs the Ball."
 
 
Jack Fear
10:21 / 20.04.07
...Jack Fear to his wife as J. (is it?)

D. But thanks for playing.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:57 / 20.04.07
Could we please stop talking about Epop while he's not here?!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:15 / 02.05.07
Wilfull ignorance and being a cultural philistine: two great tastes that go great together!

Don't worry if you don't "get" this post. It's weird and pretentious and it doesn't make any sense.
 
 
Benny the Ball
10:46 / 02.05.07
In the wrong thread, but can I just say I always liked it when one poster referred to "the future Mrs the Ball."

Oh, thanks very much!

Mrs the Ball and I are 18 days shy of year one...

as you were.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:08 / 02.05.07
Well, what a difference a week makes. One minute I am offering to proofread a collection of essays from the Temple, and now I am starting to wonder whether we should start discussing whether to close it down.
 
 
Spaniel
11:17 / 02.05.07
I find myself sympathising with your annoy there, Fly. I really dislike the way that thread brings out folk who refuse to locate themselves in the process of not-getting and as a consequence end up unfairly condemning the work or the creator for any communication breakdown.

Not saying everyone's behaving like that inthread, mind.
 
 
Katherine
12:22 / 02.05.07
Well, what a difference a week makes. One minute I am offering to proofread a collection of essays from the Temple, and now I am starting to wonder whether we should start discussing whether to close it down.

*blinkblinkblink* Eh?

Is this the temple forum or the essays Haus?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:26 / 02.05.07
D. But thanks for playing.

That's the one! Sorry.
 
 
Princess
16:20 / 02.05.07
Why why why? Has there been an outbreak of naughtiness somewhere?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:21 / 02.05.07
Haus, old stick, what gives?
 
 
Spaniel
16:33 / 02.05.07
I imagine Haus is being hyperbolic.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:49 / 02.05.07
Sorry - and sorry to the person who very kindly PMed me about this also, and to whom I was responding when my browser crashed.

I'm sure I will be back on an even keel by the time any proofreading is required, but in fairly short order we've had Epop, and now DEDI and Dead Megatron are back, and it seems like the Temple is attracting more than its fair share of trolls, stalkers, holocaust deniers, bindweeds and just plain people-who-talk-about-rape-a-bit-more-than-is-strictly-comfortable who then spread through Barbelith. This compounded by the people who are generally identified as genuine contributors of value to the board and to the Temple arguing in the Policy about what constitutes safe and considerate treatment of somebody who after some pages of wrangling once apologised for calling people's mothers whores.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:49 / 02.05.07
It's getting me down a bit, is what I'm saying.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:19 / 02.05.07
Oh right.
 
 
Spaniel
17:25 / 02.05.07
Lover is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

Olulabelle, you are the rightest of the right. It's just naaaastyhorrid.

"I enjoy my lover" must be the ickiest sentence in existence.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
17:28 / 02.05.07
I fully sympathise. It just attracts loons. In one's social life at least, one can weed them out. It kind of makes being around people who can actually talk about Templey concerns without being insane fucksticks, well, extra specially special. In a nice way.

Online though - well, no quality control.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:28 / 02.05.07
"Lover" reminds me of those SNL Will Ferrell skits - "And there my lover lay, like a great ham in the moonlight" - and I'm overrun with headsick and stabby rage.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
17:28 / 02.05.07
Apophenia logged in as KKC. Sorry. Now I'm going to read all her PMs.
 
 
Ticker
17:32 / 02.05.07
Haus

barbannoy sets up a weird dynamic. We come here to vent and yet we know people read it. Somehow that presenting and yet not presenting creates an automatic passive aggressive form of communication.

That said I'm not really sure how to respond to your posts above. I'm not even sure if I should. But honestly it makes me feel really fucked up that someone I respect when given the option of communicating with me directly choses not to but instead posts here. What you are expressing about my behavior in Policy is something id and TTS were able to directly inform me of. By doing that it allowed me to hear them and respond. I don't feel that I'm able to do that in the context of your barbannoy post. It doesn't even directly state who you're talking about but a quick read of Policy leaves no doubts.

So that leaves me feeling shitty which may have been your intent but provides no way for me to talk to you about it. Not to argue mind you, but to share the mutual 'hey this thing is owwee'. Instead I get to read your comments indirectly, all the pain and critique is there but nothing productive. You have your say and shut me out as if you can make comments and not hear their impact. Why do that? What's your desired outcome?

I won't respond to your comments about the impact of Temple contributors on the rest of the board because I know it is there I find the most voices to respect even if you do not.
 
 
Quantum
17:34 / 02.05.07
I'd happily lock the Temple and stand outside like a bouncer growling at people. But I'm not allowed.

Oh for a banhammer.
 
 
Quantum
17:40 / 02.05.07
wow, multi-cross post.
I think I feel a little more annoyed than Haus about bad people entering through the temple because it gives everyone else there a bad name. A hundred threads that are useful and erudite and dozens of posters who talk sense and know their stuff, and nobody will notice, one epopisode and I am holding my face in my hands and feel like we're back to square one in the 'hey we're not all maladaptive' game.
It's like snakes and ladders without the ladders.
 
 
godhole
18:53 / 02.05.07
Perhaps the number of people entering Temple and then the rest of B is due to its status on google - top of page two when I look up ordeal, bdsm, spiritual. Not how I heard about the board, but what finally made me stand outside the gates building huts of stone over and over again. Either that or there is some tippy internet gravity vortext or something.

Anyway, I offer to bring a hug to both XK and Haus (whom I have not met, so it would be a long-distance anglican air hug), in hopes of reminding people that what we have in common is more fun and resilient than what divides us.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:54 / 02.05.07
I'm having trouble responding to a post which starts by talking about passive aggression and then says that making the writer feel shitty may have been my intent, and then finishes:

I won't respond to your comments about the impact of Temple contributors on the rest of the board because I know it is there I find the most voices to respect even if you do not.

Having acknowledged and apologised for the browser crash that prevented me from sending a response to the private message before others asked me to elucidate the same point in this very space, I find your response frankly bewildering, XK - the repeated statement that by talking about something in a public space which it was clear that you were reading since you PMed me about it and where everybody is able to reply by the simple process of pressing the "reply" button as you did in order to tell me that I was robbing you of the ability to reply, I am robbing you of the right to reply leaves me, ironically, speechless. I will try to work out what your intention was and respond to it appropriately, but it may take a while.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:58 / 02.05.07
I don't think the Temple can be blamed for Dead Megatron, though.
 
 
This Sunday
19:03 / 02.05.07
I don't think the Temple can be blamed for Dead Megatron, though.

Is it wrong of me to want to make a resurrection joke, now?

Is it really so much worse in Temple, though? The Head Shop and Switchboard seem to be about on par.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:11 / 02.05.07
There's just this thing where magic attracts wankers. Lots and lots and lots of total fucking wankers. It's not the Temple's fault, really.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:16 / 02.05.07
I'd also point out that a lot of the wank that gets attributed to the Temple actually gets/got started over in one of the other fora. Like the anti-psychiatry thing--man, I could have sworn that was a Temple issue, but when I looked into it it was mostly HS and Lab.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:20 / 02.05.07
You may be right but I think was looking for information on a chaos tattoo. Otherwise Morpheus, the greenland posse, modzy, the fetch and a surprising number of people who wanted to hang out with him and his slightly wacky ideas, Epop, DEDI.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:43 / 02.05.07
Well, Fetcho is kind of an internet-wide hazard, to be fair. He's spread himself and his wacky miso-judaic look on life pretty thinly--he was responsible for at least one previously stanuchly anti-bannination forum caving in and adopting teh cenzorsh1pz. He likes to buzz around magic fora, sure, but he's just as much at home in political discussions. If there hadn't been a Magick/Temple, he might well have been attracted to the Switchboard.

In fact, a headcount of RED MIST-generating posters who were mostly centred on the Switchboard would be pretty long, and would include such noteworthies as Shadowsax.
 
 
Ticker
19:52 / 02.05.07
you'll notice I say it's the thread that lends a passive aggressive layer to anything in here.


But as it seems the place and the time...

I've encountered a few people on the board who fit your description: trolls, stalkers, holocaust deniers, bindweeds and just plain people-who-talk-about-rape-a-bit-more-than-is-strictly-comfortable who AFAIK didn't come in the Temple door. Scarlett being a memorable recent example as well as Dragon.

However setting that aside...


You've elected to post several comments about me in the last few days.

Starting with this one:XK is, of course, utterly incorrect in suggesting that DEDI is being unintentionally offensive, but we do need our starry-eyed optimists around here, I imagine, to function as a counterbalance.

TTS and id have elected to converse with me directly about my stance on DEDI's recent posts as well as other people. From them I have taken in information about my presentation style and what I'm not considering.

My mistake was in trying to argue for DEDI when he was not willing to particpate directly. I was incorrect to try and focus on putting forth that it was wrong to assume he was unintentionally offensive because the topic often manifests as he was framing it. I lost sight of what other people were saying was wrong with his post because of how they were saying it and still held onto my original argument. These perceptions had nothing to do with my activity in the Temple or posts I've made there.

This compounded by the people who are generally identified as genuine contributors of value to the board and to the Temple arguing in the Policy about what constitutes safe and considerate treatment of somebody who after some pages of wrangling once apologised for calling people's mothers whores.

You are entitled to say I'm wrong and if you choose to you can engage with me and discuss your perceptions as did TTS and id. However the argument was in HS and Policy, not the Temple.

Other people are saying magic attracts wankers etc. It also attracts thoughtful people who are willing to work towards mutual understanding.

If you have constructive criticism of my behavior I would appreciate you engaging with me directly in thread or using the PM system.

IIRC we've had similar problems with each other in this thread and related topics of DEDI/BDSM and the Temple. Frankly I'm tired of trying to guess what you'd like me to be doing differently or if you'd prefer I pack myself off entirely and we should set each other on ignore.
 
 
Ticker
21:15 / 02.05.07
The next isn't directed at Haus specifically but actually fits well in the thread itself.

I'm annoyed with it being okay to lump problem posters together as being 'from the Temple'. It's not okay to dump onto an entire group of people that happen to talk under one forum often. They're too diverse.

It's as useless and ridiculous as if I said they're all mostly male, or from middle class families, or prefer the color green.

The statement doesn't serve to improve anything it just shuts one group out.

There are bigots in knitting forums, on raw food groups, people who want to shake things up by being ego centric louts pontificating about their favorite issue on any number of topics. It doesn't automatically mean everyone in that group is suddenly unworthy of being listened to. The exception being groups formed around a bigoted or hateful idea which the Temple is not.

If my viewpoints are unsound or problematic to reflect that back onto a collection of people I interact with as a means to judge them is absurd.

I've watched a lot of people apologize for magic users being more prone to jerk behavior than other people when that is not any more true than saying electric tooth brush users over manual.

It's not okay to say members of a religion are all prone to X behavior unless you have verifiable proof. We're not even members of the same religion let alone is the source of the bias based in anything real.

It may very well be that the board's Temple forum is a magnet for drawing in a lot of people. A certain percentage of any given number are going to be jerks. It's the internet more than it's the topics.
 
  

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