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Underground > Comic Books >

7 Soldiers: Zatanna

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:50 / 14.08.05

Just thinking that I really like the visual of Ali Ka-Zoom's Cabinet, especially with all the police tape put up across the doors. Hope we'll get some killer flashbacks next issue.

Liked the Rumplestiltskin image of Misty at the loom, probably changing straw into gold...

22:31 / 14.08.05

I'll see your Rumplestiltskin, and raise you The Wild Swans.

Clothing as transfiguring element and industrial strength persona cleaner has already been referenced with Spyder and the Time Sewing Machine. I'm interested in what Misty will do with that contraption once the three of them get to Slaughter Swamp.

Also: The loom has long been argued to be a symbol of "woman's work" in fairy tale literature. Learning to work the loom can be seen to be an acceptance of adulthood, of matruing into adult gender roles. See the above stories, and add Sleeping Beauty. In that story, a baby girl is cursed to die when she touches a loom. Well of course the "girl" dies, but is then reborn when she's kissed by a handsome prince: she sees that adulthood also brings romantic love.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

23:41 / 14.08.05

The transformational clothing also shows up in Zatara's top hat being given to Zatanna. She can't access her magic, yet seems to get an alternative mojo from the hat (symbolically, anyway, since it's mostly just that she regains some confidence even if she still wallows too much)

Misty & The Time Sewing Machine! Good call. Perhaps the Seven Unknown Men will fail yet again and Misty - who "isn't" one of the Seven, but is the Eighth member, the sidekick - will fill in for Wing and save the day (as in the original Nebula Man story, right?) by using the Time Sewing Machine.

Hmm. We've seen what happens when there's only six soldiers - everybody dies - and seven soldiers usually fail (such as Kid Scareface, Ali, et al). Maybe Eight's the actual magic number, and there has to be an eighth member?

Oh, wait, there was the richest dog in the world with Ali and company. Maybe one of the Seven has to die - as has been advertized - so that Misty can be 007 and save the day?

00:18 / 15.08.05

If anybody will die, it'll be Frankenstein. His story is all about integrated holistic thinking. Like the Psalm goes: For everything, there is a season. Including death. And ressurection.

But really, anybody can die. The whole point of this series is to show how the levels of engagement change the rules of the "trap". I doubt any Soldier will die for good. Not with a Time Sewing Machine.

And the 7S:Zero team had five actual members: Spyder betrayed them. I think we'll learn who the cold foot soldier was in issue 1.

And Bloy Blue's sonic "rune" horn has got to be one of the Seven Imperishable Treasures. Has anybody said that yet?

04:21 / 15.08.05

And the 7S:Zero team had five actual members: Spyder betrayed them. I think we'll learn who the cold foot soldier was in issue 1.

You don't think his capture and turning came during/after that team's massacre?

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:48 / 15.08.05

His story is all about integrated holistic thinking.

Wow, how did you get to read those comics already?

10:58 / 15.08.05

SD:
No, I think Spyder betrayed the team outright. AKA Spider did exactly that in the Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E. issues that dealt with the Seven Soldiers. I don't think he's got a spine-rider. I think he's a bastard. Could be wrong about that though.

Flyboy:
I've been right about a lot before and I think I'm placing a pretty solid bet on what Frankenstein's book will feel like. There's a pattern under all these books.

A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

12:00 / 15.08.05

Chad: but what does 'integrated holistic thinking' mean in the context of Frankenstein? Apologies in advance for my ignorance, but I don't know what you mean.

12:04 / 15.08.05

I'm thinking it will be a comic about a big, daft monster sewn together from bits of dead people.

However, I have been wrong about a lot before, so you may not want to actually bet any money with William Hill.

12:20 / 15.08.05

ABTOG:
Check out my posts on the next to last page in the 7S thread. Basically, the Seven Soldiers are another exploration into evolving social theory, in which the protagonists "escape" one set of values into another. For instance, Zatanna escapes impulsive egocentricity by taking on the responsibility of teaching an apprentice. Aggression gives way to Principle.

The value sets are set up consecutively so far, and so it stands to reason that the last book "Frankenstein" will be the last transition: chaotic existentialism to an understanding of all-encompassing universal order. Frank's gonna go Zen.

Sax:
Don't be so hard on yourself.

13:05 / 15.08.05

hrrm - with a pinch of respect, and a rap of generosity, i think it's a bit biggit-upyer of you to say you're often right. to my reckoning you're ffifty-fifty at the most - exhibit one the weapon x v-meme thing - i don't think anyone should try to take that from you, but neither i think should anyone pretend that it's particularly important in the corpus of the new x men run. gm probably did used vmemes to model aspects of some of his new characters on, but there's not really enough textual evidence to confirm it, or demonstrate that it's the whole point of the story's existence.

but there's (exhibit two) the painted doll thing, the hippy wrong-footed you a treat there, and to my mind that balances any assertion that your secret hotline to the switchboards of our favourit hirsute-or-otherwise comic types is better than, say, sax's, who's been having it off with gm since zoids come out. if the seven soldiers are more little vmen running around, i'd say it's bally well time for master morrison to stop ripping off his own old stuff and get hisself a new idol to worship a while.

but, zero snark on this bit: what are the sixth and eighth vmemes? why would the former keep failing to fend off the sheeda where frank 'n' some others will (presumably) succeed? what will the latter bring to the party that the fairy queen can't deal with?

13:39 / 15.08.05

Weapon Plus being badguy VMen was hardly the point of NXM. The whole point of NXM was to show how one might mutate to evolve past conquest and domination, right? Thanks for that, though. I am being rather full of maself, but I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and dog gonnit, people like me. It's fun to be sure of yerself.

Gumby! You remembered the painted doll thing! That was a screwup, true. And I've learned to not guestimate Mr. Moore since. He doesn't read or reference theory so much. I'm touched you recall that little spark of mine from Promethea.

I think Morrison's okay using VMen as goodies this time around. Like the themes show: It's traps and individual quests. And each character has hir own "level" of storytelling. What makes Zatanna cool is gonna be differnt than what makes Bulleteer kickass.

What are the sixth and eighth vmemes?
Sixth is Postmodern Egalitarian Humanism. I'm okay if you're okay. Happy huggles and civil liberties. Eighth is Zen. Meaning comes from struggle and all that. It all fits together, even in ways we can't see.

Mister Miracle is scheduled to go from materialism to level six treehugging, so I'm thining he'll try to acknowledge a peace or treaty with the the Sheeda. That'll blow up in his face. Chances are Frank and the rest will see that this is an organic process, and there's a way to serve the Sheeda while also saving themselves. Possibly by waking up the DCU the way Nebula Man is the woke up future-version of Qwewq.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

14:05 / 15.08.05

what will the latter bring to the party that the fairy queen can't deal with?

Isn't that just the rub? Re-reading the whole thing again (how can you not do this, like, weekly? AND I'm discovering new stuff every time) that's really the thing that sticks out. What is it that makes these guys different? Maybe we should all go the the regular 7S thread and just, you know, float around this whole little story some more.

13:26 / 23.08.05

Um, wasn't that super-evil, world-destroying ghost/spirit/entity from issue 2, the one Z inadvertently summoned in her quest for the perfect man, trapped inside the cabinet of Ali KaZoom? So when they burn the cabinet, shouldn't that spirit be let loose? Or was that spirit made into the little homonculus inside the jar? I'm confused...

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:45 / 23.08.05

He's the guy in the jar, as shown in #2. How he was moved from the cabinet to the jar is not shown...

13:47 / 23.08.05

FinderWolf - Think Ghostbusters.

The Cabinet, made from unnamed fluids, acts as a Ghost trap with less ethereal lights and more mysterious surprises. Zatanna's mystically inclined enough to be able to use her showmanship and top hat like a proton pack, leading Gwydion through various magickal mousetraps (the mirror) to finally end up in the cabinet.

I'm sure all it took was a "raj eht ni ylteiuq evil" from Misty and her die to get the little man from the cabinet to the jar.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:16 / 23.08.05

I'm hoping something comes of Gwydion in the jar. He was too important in the first half not to be involved in some way with the finale. If this was a longer series, I think I'd appreciate the cute aside of Zatanna carrying around her Bonsai Boyfriend as a tangible example of her emotional baggage, but in the context of four issues something more has to be immediately at stake with him. Perhaps he'll be used as a bargaining chip toward the Gloriana Tenebrae, or a means of Zatanna getting her full power back?

By the way - the Gloriana is Misty's Wicked Stepmother. What's the traditional fairy-tale set-up? Was Snow White's poppa the King, and the stepmother married into Royalty, or was it the other way around? Misty's father may have had "intimate contact" and spirited off to Summer's End like Thomas the Rhymer (?) was. Or is the Gloriana a no-good two-bit commoner who married the King and got an overinflated sense of self-importance? Snow White's father was dead, yeah?

So - who do we think Misty's dad is?

("Klarion's father!" "Zatara!" "Johnny Depp!")

14:28 / 23.08.05

who do we think Misty's dad is?

Arthur.

Meludreen spoke eloquently over in Klarion about the importance of growing up and adulthood vs childhood. This is where Misty, as the little lost princess, blends in. I'm thinking she's this generation's "foreign sidekick", and Unknown Soldier (Wing). I predict death. And Klarion, being the royal descendant of Croatoan, may kiss her back to life.

Growing up and accepting adulthood is about accepting sex. See: Galahad, the Perfect Knight's corruption.

15:00 / 23.08.05

This is Stephen King's IT all over again.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:08 / 23.08.05

Arthur.

What, Aquaman?

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:11 / 23.08.05

Seriously, there's one issue left apiece of Zatanna and Klarion. Chad, I would like to put actual money on Misty NOT dying and being revived by Klarion's kiss.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:21 / 23.08.05

Chad: I like the Misty-as-Wing reading, especially if she has to put some of the old loyalty aside and press her advantage against Neb-uh-loh. I still think something's amiss with her parentage; the Sheeda bowed down to Misty, which MIGHT make sense if her father was the rightful Sheeda King, but if her father was Arthur (a human still - optimal or otherwise), for some reason I can't see them holding her in that much reverence. But if she's the rightful heir and Gloriana's the upstart?

We know Gloriana's the stepmother, but what about Misty's birth mother? Perhaps an earlier faery queen?

Death probably is in the cards - Misty needs to accepted as an eighth soldier (The Sheeda hold eight in higher regard than seven, after all) and die to end the threat. Klarion kissing her? Maybe we just really want to see 'em get it on or something, but I can't remember him being specifically royal (maybe all the Limbo-Towners are royal for being descended from Croa?), especially as descended from Puritans who might have reason to shun the idea of royalty...

15:45 / 23.08.05

For Misty to die perhaps its her die that must be sacrificed. Putting away childish games and what not. I'm also wondering if Crotoa, now free from his chains, was Misty's father and rightful ruler of the Sheeda. His imprisonment could have been the intimate contact refered to by Melmoth who seems BDSM friendly.

17:19 / 23.08.05

So - who do we think Misty's dad is?

Given George's penchant for (half-)brother/sister incest, Klarion's father has to be a strong contender. Assuming Klarion and Misty will eventually meet...

17:20 / 23.08.05

Penchant, you say?
Besides the Invisibles Gideon Stargrave stuff, what else is there?

17:29 / 23.08.05

Kill your boyfriend for one.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

18:01 / 23.08.05

Oh! I'd completely forgotten about that naughty slant to KYB.

18:11 / 24.08.05

one thing that's not been mentioned yet (I think, you guys lost me a bit talking about continuity between this and SK) is the fact Zatanna gets her "mojo" back on with: "Misty, say after me raeppa ersoh gniylf!".

Amazing how a scarely, cosmic looking demon/warrior can be just the motivation you've been looking for.

The Natural Way

18:55 / 24.08.05

There's something really fucking creepy about that whole bumping-into-Nebby-in-an-airy-LA mansion scene. Something to do w/ safe spaces being invaded or thereabouts. Good Horror.

RUUUUN!

19:01 / 24.08.05

Hmmm...

Annataz weiver neerdulem!

19:01 / 24.08.05

Besides the Invisibles Gideon Stargrave stuff, what else is there?

There's Kill Your Boyfriend and sooort of Zenith Phase 3 (the Tiger Twins were at least first cousins).

19:03 / 24.08.05

Oh, and Zenith Phase 2, if shagging one's mother's clone counts.

19:34 / 24.08.05

1. On spinning: note also that the Sheeda ride spiders.

2. Why has no one mentioned the alarming resemblance (to me, at least) between The Tempter and Mister Melmoth? Willing to bet they're the same dude (or at the very least metaphysically related). Which would mean...
2a. I'm willing to be Misty and Klarion don't meet, since that Melmoth business would put the events of Klarion some time before the events of Zatanna. Is that consistent with other people's reading of the timelines?

3. On the business with the cauldron: I just read it as going: a. zap Vincenzo, b. watch where his flunkies drag him, c. zap flunkies en route, d. snatch cauldron. Pretty basic stuff, no double shootings involved. Did I miss something?

19:49 / 24.08.05

I noted that too and never said anything here. The question is, does Zee make Vanguard appear, or was he on his way anyway?

The Natural Way

18:24 / 25.08.05

Uh, that's the thing w/ magick, isn't it?

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