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7 Soldiers

 
  

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Yotsuba & Benjamin!
03:17 / 19.01.06
And since we're talking continuity, here's my personal stab at chronology, circa January 18. 2006.

I think Frankenstein #1 is the best place for us to start. Gives us a little bit about Melmoth and since it's not directly connected to any other SS event, it can really go anywhere. And he's also got a long-ass walk to New York and the Erdel Gate in #2.
Next, Bulleteer #1 Since we know now that she was the missing 7th member of Vigi's gang, we have to assume she was already a Suped-Up Hero at that time.
Zatanna #1. Gimmix. No brainer.
Seven Soldiers #0.
Zatanna #2. According to Zee, Misty's only spent one night at her house.
Guardian #1. Because everything has to start somewhere.
Guardian #2. Because nothing can stop the mighty cliffhanger.
Mister Miracle #1. According to the radio, Shilo's Black Hole stunt is scheduled for the same day.
Mister Miracle #2. Again. Nothing can stop the mighty cliffhanger.
Klarion #1. Might as well throw this here.
Klarion #2. Cliffhanger. Mighty. Unstoppable.
Shining Knight #1. This book's sheer nonstoppability forces it to be placed a little bit further down the timeline than some might've preferred.
Shining Knight #2 This whole series
Shining Knight #3 forms a lovely tapestry
Shining Knight #4 of continuous continuity.
Zatanna #3. A direct follow up to Shiny so, a must spot.
Mister Miracle #3. Linking up Guardian's flashback and Klarion's joyride in the same night, another must spot.
Klarion #3. See above.
Bulleteer #2. The day after K#3, according to ol' Hellfish Helligan, and let's just pretend it takes place during the time it takes for Klarion to make his way down to Limbo Town.
Klarion #4. Which brings us here.
Frankenstein #2. Melmoth is short one arm, so it must take place after K#4. One would assume it takes place before all hell breaks loose, but not too far before, as we can imagine Frankenstein on a non-stop Spree of Vengeance as of this issue.
Zatanna #4. Although the adventure in question probably happens before the night of the Museum Heist, it's all flashback, and this issue's present time is just a Horsefeather away from SS#1.
Manhattan Guardian #3. At some point after the night covered in MM#3 & K#3, but one would presume it was significantly later since Bulleteer references the Museum Heist and most definitely has a ways to go before her series reaches its Segue to its SS#1 Zenith.
Manhattan Guardian #4. A cliffhanger from #3 and literally a footstep away from SS#1.

Just a cursory glance at this pile already has me a bit more comfortable about Mister Miracle's chances of holding up against this onslaught of otherwise impeccable books, as I'd prevously had them all shoved down to the bottom of the time line, as I'd missed that critical connection point in Guardian #1. Durrrh.
 
 
LDones
10:32 / 19.01.06
Excellent job, Benjamin.

The only thing I might point out as not quite chronological would be that the first two issues of Guardian and Klarion are happening at exactly the same time, for train splattering goodness of several varieties.

So pushing Guardian and thus Mister Miracle back a bit might be in order.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
10:34 / 19.01.06
Oh dang it! How could I've forgotten that! Thanks for that. Time for some fiddlin'.
 
 
The Falcon
15:07 / 21.01.06
Hmmm, mine's quite different; I've built on the previous sterling work in the WIKI, but integrated the coasts and shit, given the crosscues. There's probably a mistake there, somewhere. I'm inclined to think that #0 marks something of a midpoint, actually.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:54 / 02.02.06
Wow, did Bulleteer #3 make things interesting, timeline-wise. I stayed up late last night dividing the book up into days, as opposed to trying to find out which order they should fall into. This is sort of similar to the Wiki one in that respect, but I don't know, I figured I'd post the process.

Basically, the key to the chronology, for me at least, was looking at how certain books had to take place on either the same day or the day before another particular book. Also, this timeline, for the sake of sanity, only refers to the framing day in each book and disregards all flashbacks and other insanity.

Starting with Day 1 & 2 in 7S#0, I see it shaking out thusly:

Day 0: Bulleteer #1 & Zatanna #1. It's the day before Gimmix leaves for Mesa and, for the sake of convenience, we'll say it's Bulleteer's first day in costume and that her first act is to answer Greg Saunder's ad. As we'll see later, Alix has a habit of maximizing her superhero productivity, so it's a safe assumption.

Day 1 & 2: Seven Soldiers #0. This takes place over two days, more or less, with the Whip and Spyder sequences taking place in a nebulous "Day Or Two Before". I like to imagine the Whip beating on Pogo thugs while on the West Coast, Zatanna is getting dressed for her Support Group, and/or Misty is following her around.

Day 3: Manhattan Guardian #1/Manhattan Guardian #2/Klarion #1/Klarion #2. All four issues occur pretty much simultaneously. I had originally placed Mister Miracle #1 on this day well, but as we'll see, the stunt in question is only referred to in flashback by Shilo in therapy the following day (we'll say it's the following day, again, for sanity's sake).

Day 4: Mister Miracle #1/Mister Miracle #2. The day after Jake's first day on the job.

Day 5: Zatanna #2. Thankfully, Zatanna #2 and is completely autonomous and can be placed anywhere before Issue 3. This is helpful as the timeline will soon become merciless in regards to an upcoming few days, so we need to fill this dead space with something.

Day 6: Shining Knight #1 & Frankenstein #1. I know it seems late, but it's the only place we can put it, as you'll see in just a moment. This is a nice place for the freestanding Frankenstein #1 as well, because both protagonists carry swords. Note that although Shining Knight #2 continues a cliffhanger, the meat of the issue takes place on the following day. Which is complicated, but nowhere near as complicated as the day after it.

Day 7:
Shining Knight #2/Shining Skinght #3/Shining Knight #4
Klarion #3
Mister Miracle #3
Klarion #4
A crazy day to be sure, as the Don is attacked on the West Coast and Klarion quickly meets his destiny in the East. Shilo crosses paths briefly with Klarion in his #3, and I think it's a nice fit for his issue to be read whilst our young Klarion makes his way home and is tied to the stake.

Day 8:
Morning:
Zatanna #3
Manhattan Guardian #3
Bulleteer #2
Afternoon:
Bulleteer #3
Evening:
Manhattan Guardian #4
Zatanna #4
Nebulous Mars Time:
Frankenstein #2
Thanks to Helligan's unfortunate statement that the Mesa incident ocurred "One Week Earlier" (not even the less restrictive and more relaxed "a week ago"!) and the fan question at the SuperCon about Don being discovered dead "That Morning", we are forced to consider Alix is an incredibly productive young woman, talking with Helligan that morning and then dashing off to her Convention Job later the same day. The reason everything is so clumped together is because Helligan also makes specific reference to the Museum Heist and her attack by the Queen, both of them "Last Night". Ouch. I'm putting Frankenstein here as well, because it has to be after Klarion #4 but depending on how crowded it gets in his last two issues, that might have to get pushed back to directly after the last Klarion on the same day (7). Also, Jake's story shakes out to end here, as the Brain "just heard" about the tiff we saw in flashback in MG#3 and in present in MM#3. That can safely be assumed to be "The Previous Evening", aka, "The Night Of Day 7".

I know. I'm just as terrified as the Mister Miracle timeline as you. He's clearly convalescing in a serious way by the time MM#3 ends, and there's no way all that can take place in between days 7 & 8 (Seven Soldiers #1 is pretty much going to have to take place on the morning of Day 9.) or that any sane hospital would allow a castrated burn victim to go to 7-11 the day after his vicious assault. I'm hoping that his involvement is in the Castle Revolving, thus freeing Shilo and myself from the contraints of regular time and place and allowing him to be involved in the 7S#1 proceedings even after a long period of rehabilitation.
 
 
Mario
14:57 / 02.02.06
If the "Death trap" isn't an actual physical injury, he could easily recover much faster. There is a certain surreal, dreamlike (if nightmarish) quality to the end of MM #3.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:52 / 02.02.06
Rather appropiate that the 7th day would be so significant.
 
 
The Falcon
19:06 / 02.02.06
Yeahhh, see when I was doing my chronology, I kinda figued it'd take place over seven days. But I think I only found direct notations to the equivalent of 3 or 4.
 
 
Malio
09:54 / 11.02.06
From the Wondercon DCU panel:

"Seven Soldiers takes place one week before Infinite Crisis said Morrison. Geoff Johns said the Seven Soldiers will begin to show up in upcoming issues of Infinite Crisis."
 
 
Speedy
12:14 / 11.02.06
Benjamin, thanks for posting your very interesting tentative timeline. I found yours after I'd started my own. It's quite a maddening task, and I think I may have to give up, coz it's just not working for me. At one point when I'd followed a path that led to Miracle Mesa having to happen the NIGHT BEFORE what you call Day 7 and I called "Hurricane Gloria", I realized I couldn't make it work.

So I thought I'd just make some random and somewhat half-arsed observations from my own "research" and a couple of comments on your chronology:

In Bulleteer #2, Helligan doesn't actually say that Miracle Mesa happened "one week earlier" - she tells Solomano that "the Nebula Man returned LAST WEEK and killed a new team of soldiers". So maybe you've got some wiggle room there.

Also I just can't accept that all of Bulleteer #2 and #3 takes place on ONE DAY (the day after Day 7). I see how you arrived at that point, but I think it's a stretch for the story. Here's how it plays: late on the night of Day 7, Helligan is bitten by Gloriana (Shining Knight #2) in LA, and (off-panel) gets a tetanus shot, receives information on the Shelly Gaynor missing person investigation and links it with her case, flies to NYC, collects the Iron Hand from the Manhattan Museum of Superhumanity, and (now Day 8 and on-panel Bulleteer #2) meets some FBI agents and Alix, whom she briefs on Miracle Mesa. With Alix, she goes to the Pen to confront Solomano, rushes across town to stop her sister's wedding, and ... dies. Alix goes home to pack for the convention in Zenith City. (How far away is it and how does she get there?) That's a pretty full diary for Helligan and Alix.

In Bulleteer #3, Alix keeps up the pace (this may be why she drinks black coffee): foiling the first poisoning attempt on Suli Stellamaris, attending a panel and an awards dinner, questioning Thumbelina, listening to Mind Grabber Morrison's whining, being shot at by Spyder, and racing back home to NYC to get in a fight with Sally Sonic. These two issues cover a lot of stuff for just one day!

I want to say that the convention takes place the NEXT day (what would be Day 9 in your scheme). Unfortunately the fan's remark, "Vincenzo Baldi was found dead at his home this morning. It was on CNN.", throws a spanner in those works. As we know from Shining Knight #3 and Zatanna #3, the Don died (permanently) sometime late on the night of Day 7/morning of Day 8. But can't we just assume that the Don wasn't FOUND dead by the authorities until Day 9? (It's a big secluded estate in the Hollywood hills, and the neighbours didn't notice anything out of the ordinary ... explosions and gunfire throughout the night, an army of spear-wielding fairies, a ghost bus, a big starry guy with a cauldron, two women fleeing on a flying horse ...)

OK, enough with the Bulleteer stuff! Some random thoughts:

Why is the story in Zatanna #3 entitled “Three Days of the Dead” when it appears to take place over no more than a day and a half? DON'T TELL ME it's poetic license!

If anyone knows when the “7th day of Arachne, the secret 13th month” falls in the regular calendar, and can establish when Zatanna's séance (Zatanna #1) took place, we can tie the whole thing in to real time …

The rain brought on by Hurricane Gloria features quite nicely in several stories and is often a good way of correlating times.

I thought that the “Johnny Frankenstein” who rode with Greg in 1875 (Seven Soldiers #0) would turn out to be “our” Frankenstein. Unfortunately Frank's fight with Melmoth on the train takes place in 1870 (Frankenstein #1, page 1), and then he's buried until 2005. Maybe that 1870 caption is wrong - after all, the other time captions were messed up in that issue. Or maybe Johnny Frankenstein is just somebody else.

Incidentally, we know how Frankenstein got to Mars, but how did he get from Uglyhead's town (“in the Northwest”) to New York? Characters in Seven Soldiers seem to be able to cross the continent at will.

The movements of the supporting characters help in establishing the timeline, or perhaps wrecking it. Etta was in LA for Zatanna's support group meeting (with Misty, Mind Grabber Man and Gimmix) (Zatanna #1), and was there to hear Z's story of the events of Zatanna #4, right before Misty flies in for, presumably, the lead-in to Seven Soldiers #1. But at some point Etta's on the convention panel in Zenith City in Bulleteer #3.

Does someone want to try tracking (heh) I, Spyder's movements, or those of Vigilante('s ghost)?

A lot of stuff relies on that page in Mister Miracle #3 showing where Klarion and Jake were at the time. But, as Benjamin points out, that produces a lot of problems for Shilo's story. I'm going to say that the timeline in Mister Miracle may be kind of arbitrary if it turns out (wild speculation) that Shilo is actually Captain 7 trying to escape from Ali-Ka-Zoom's cabinet …

Anyway.

I love the idea of all the miniseries starting at different times, interweaving, and lining up in time for Seven Soldiers #1, but it's a big ask that their internal continuities be watertight.

Besides, we always have the fallback of the Seven Unknown Men and their ability to work the narrative machinery to their own ends. I hope that Morrison hasn't relied too heavily on this continuity escape clause though, and that he brings it all home in a satisfying manner.
 
 
Triplets
13:29 / 11.02.06
Time goes soft and changes in certain places, though, laddos. S'true.
 
 
Optimistic
16:32 / 11.02.06
There are some interesting tidbits about Seven Soldiers at Newsarama's Wondercon thread (with the 52 writers).

The juiciest being:

"Morrison said that SSoV: Frankenstein #4 would show the fallout for the Ultra Marine Corps storyline from his JLA: Classified run."



Oh yeah...
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
19:41 / 11.02.06
Also an interesting confirmational tidbit:

Johns added that all of the characters from Seven Soldiers show up in the final issues of Crisis.
 
 
Optimistic
19:49 / 11.02.06
Soooooooo

If they ALL show up in the final issues does that mean SS#1 is post-crisis?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
20:11 / 11.02.06
It could just be another Frosted Glass appearance, like Flex Mentallo's supposed appearance in the latest Teen Titans. It's kind of like saying Captain Atom appeared in IC #2.
 
 
Mario
20:40 / 11.02.06
Grant has also said that while there are no plans for the Soldiers post-8C, he WOULD like to do a Frankenstein or a Guardian ongoing.
 
 
LDones
07:04 / 12.02.06
He said Bulleteer as well, which pleased me.
 
 
Dicodisco
07:55 / 12.02.06
Cover for the final issue (ie #1) is featured at Silver Bullet comics.
 
 
Optimistic
09:23 / 12.02.06
The Comic Book Resources article about GM's WonderCon panel quotes him saying he's still writing SS#1.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:27 / 12.02.06
from Newsarama:

>> On the subject of Seven Soldier’s of Victory #1, Morrison said he’s written 100 pages for the 30 page story, “So there will be some squeezing and crushing to fit it all in,” he said, “and I don’t know who is going to survive, but the juice will taste wonderful.”

Later asked in the Q&A portion of the panel if since he’s written 100 pages, if maybe there might be a SSoV #2, Morrison said no, he often likes to write more pages than necessary and reduce it down by keeping the best parts.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:13 / 12.02.06
>> Asked for a clear view of how Seven Soldiers of Victory relates to Infinite Crisis, and the overall DCU, Morrison said that in his view, SSoV takes place one week before Infinite Crisis, which explains why there are no other superheroes around to defend New York City. The writer added that there will be references to Crisis in the final issues of SSoV: Frankenstein.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:20 / 12.02.06
>> and:

>> Morrison, when asked, said that he wouldn’t be doing much with magic in his upcoming work, noting that Michael Moorecock had written the “Magic Bible” for the DCU and that the author’s ideas for how magic works, and how magical characters interact in the DCU is very interesting.

Wacker added that, with magic in the DCU, the idea now is not to use it as a plot device or a ghost in the machine, but rather to show, as with everything else, there’s a cost associated to using magic.

Asked what his ideas were for the reintroduction of the New Gods in the pages of SSoV: Mr. Miracle, Morrison said that he wanted to move away from the Jack Kirby-created characters as being seen as little more than just another brand or level of superhero, noting that he wanted to re-infuse them with their power and spookiness, making them worthy of the name “New Gods” again. As such, Morrison said that he sees them as more primal forces, more mythical that can inhabit people’s bodies for their own purposes.

Morrison said that SSoV: Frankenstein #4 would show the fallout for the Ultra Marine Corps storyline from his JLA: Classified run.
 
 
Aertho
18:46 / 22.02.06
For today's feast of thought:

Are the Sheeda the qlippoth of the Phoenix?

Before I dive too deep into meme colors(Teal), we've all seen that in New X-Men, the Phoenix comes in judgment, and through the employ of psychic agents, determines through compassion what works and what doesn't. Jean Grey, one such agent, burned up an entire future because she felt her ex-husband could build a better one if he was nudged to do so.

The Sheeda, in comparison, come to harvest the civilizations of the past, from a point we all believe to be the far, far future. They've done so repeatedly in the past and have built a mythology around their arrivals, similar to the Shi'Ar's experience with Phoenix. Where the Phoenix employs agents to destroy with jurisprudence and compassion, the Sheeda indiscriminantly rape and pillage.

I've suggested numerous times upthread and elsewhere that the villains of New X-Men are qlippoths of the heroes of 7 Soldiers. I've only just realized that the BIG HUGE SCARY villain of 7S is the qlippoth of the BIG HUGE SCARY hero of NXM.

for those who need a definition:

Qlippoth is a term meaning "husks", and is commonly referred to malignant and regressive forces in the universe. When appllied to the realms of values and ideas and spiritual concepts, qlippoth often cuts to the essence of the stated idea, and nullifies its inherent "intent, theme, or meaning". Qlippoths are "meaningless" versions of a thing.

Soldier 1 Purple in a Beige World: Shining Knight, qlippoth: U-Men
Soldier 2 Red in a Purple World: Guardian, qlippoth: Cassandra Nova
Soldier 3 Blue in a Red World: Zatanna, qlippoth: The Huntsman/W 12
Soldier 4 Orange in a Blue World: Klarion, qlippoth: Fantomex/W 13
Soldier 5 Green in an Orange World: Mr Miracle, qlippoth: Cuckoos/W 14
Soldier 6 Yellow in a Green World: Bulleteer, qlippoth: Ultimaton/W 15
Soldier 7 Turquoise in a Yellow World: Frankenstein, qlippoth:Magneto/Xorn
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:56 / 22.02.06

Soldier 1 Purple in a Beige World: Shining Knight, qlippoth: U-Men


Very nice, but what does this actually mean? How is Justyn like the U-Men?
 
 
Aertho
21:12 / 22.02.06
Both exhibit a mythical sense of community, for starters.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:40 / 22.02.06
You could probably also draw a line between the U-Men's belief in a perfect, clean future with Ystin's origins as an optimal human in an optimal past.
 
 
Simplist
21:51 / 22.02.06
Guardian strikes me as more Blue (Guardian, action in service of order) vs. Red (Pirates! Aaarrr!). Bulleteer, OTOH, seems more like Green (Bulleteer, non-heirarchical acceptance, "why is everyone so obsessed with being special?") vs. Orange (her husband, goal-oriented self-improvement through [mad-]science; and the other supers, success through self-promotion). I think it may be a mistake to ascribe to each book one particular memetic conflict -- arguments can be made for replication across books, and multiple conflicts within some of them.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:10 / 22.02.06
It could also be read as Ystin being conceptually opposite to the U-men. Ystin's an "original Human" more primal than the baseline human. U-men are Baseline human aspiring to become superhuman. THen take a look at their motavations... Ystin's primal Chivalry vs. the modern day predatory selfishness.
 
 
Aertho
23:18 / 22.02.06
Guardian is Red.

It's all about the EGO. His mentor's a supersmart baby, for Zod's sake. The Pirates are a very Purple Hatfields and McCoys, and Century Hollow was all about global cultures as tribes. And the kids of Nowhere Street are met with the myths and madness of the Time Tailor.
 
 
Aertho
23:33 / 22.02.06
And hey: the Soldiers were put in an order for a reason. Might as well let it work FOR you, you know?
 
 
Ms.Blue
06:45 / 25.02.06
i've talked to doktor discord before. he was (surprisingly) down to earth and funny as hell.
 
 
Ms.Blue
06:48 / 25.02.06
sorry for the multiple posts
 
 
Aertho
17:35 / 25.02.06
Who/What is Doktor Discord?
 
 
Aertho
17:38 / 25.02.06
Ugh. Nevermind.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:58 / 03.03.06
So, here's the cover to the Vol. 3 TPB

On Sale May 31, 2006

Might Frankie's absence from these cover spell out death for our not-quite-dead hero?
 
  

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