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Underground > Comic Books >

7 Soldiers

  
  

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FinderWolf
13:07 / 31.08.05
cool, thanks for that, Shoulder.
 
 
Aertho
13:32 / 31.08.05
Does that poem and the myth behind it mean that Spyder is Gloriana's manwhore?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:38 / 31.08.05
Continuity Cops, rest easy. SK#4 is entitled "The Last Stand Of Don Vincenzo" and it explains everything. Well, present day everything. We'll have to wait until Guardian #4 to get the scoop on the Newsboy Army.

But that's nothing compared to the two huge moments of stunnery within the ish. But I'll leave that for the Shining Knight thread.

...And possibly the Klarion thread.

Ain't I a stinker?
 
 
Aertho
14:13 / 31.08.05
SUNUVABITCH

My local shop is too far for me to rationalize wasting gas today. I'll have to wait until after work. Otherwise I'd be a coy boy too.
 
 
A
14:28 / 31.08.05
I wish it didn't say "drool" in the topic abstract for this thread.
 
 
RadJose
09:49 / 01.09.05
"Continuity Cops, rest easy. SK#4 is entitled "The Last Stand Of Don Vincenzo" and it explains everything."

It doesn't explain who dressed the Don in his hoodie and put him and Vangaurd outside!
 
 
The Falcon
13:22 / 08.09.05
Because this seems a reasonable compromise, I'm just cutting and pasting Phex here.

'Kay?

A Soldier Must Die!

04:46 / 08.09.05

Spinning off from the Shining Knight thread, and indeed every Seven Soldiers thread, this is a place for increasingly less speculative speculation about the identity of the Soldier who shoud be taking harp lessons. To quote what's been said so far:

Me:

As it stands so far:
Zatanna: Too much of a D.C staple, too important to Infinite Crisis.
Manhattan Guardian: Too much potential for an ongoing series, though he'd be my bet.
Shining Knight: Ongoing series already alluded to.
Bulleteer: Enormous assets worth developing
Klarion: A kid, more potential for an ongoing series or at least Teen Titans membership.

To which Stone K replied:
Mr. Miracle will die. Here's why...

1) DC have put a crappy artist on the title, as if to say "who cares about exciting people to his potential with an awesome artist."

2) There's already another Mr. Miracle out there, the original, and surely there can't be 2 running around. One of them is expendable.

3) He's on a "cross" on the cover to issue #1 - I smell a sacrifice...

'Are being stolen by bandits' (not hir real name) said:

My money's on Zatanna at the moment. Sure, she's a DC staple, but that makes her demise more likely to me - one of the tenets of Crisis seems to be the elimination of Magic from the DCU, which would leave Zatanna with bugger-all to do in the Post-Crisis Universe, and SS #1 does come out concurrently with the climax of the Crisis miniseries itself. I wouldn't be surprised if they play into each other at least a little bit (not directly, but the death of a notable DC supporting character would add to the sense of "Big Things Happening" which they seem to be going for with this).

Keith, Lord of Kobol vacuumed the Doritos out of his keyboard to reply:

Bulleteer seems the most expendable, and the most non-DC character to me for some reason. I can see her being problematic for an ongoing.

But so far...I think Manhattan Guardian has been setup as the "heart" of the 7S series, and therefore the most interesting and potent to kill off.

and finally Juan Artega landed his jet-powered rocket bike at a nearby internet cafe for long enough to say:

Mr Miracle is in a cross, but then again, he is always crucified on the weirdest devices on his covers. Besides, Jesus comes back to life in the third day.

Zatanna worries me, though. Did anyone catch that "Don't forget to tell her about the last rule of magic. The one where the magician has to vanish along with his trick. Leaving the audience and his beautiful assistants, to go on without him."

Of course, Ali-Ka-Zoom could have been talking just about himself, but... who knows.... Maybe that rule applies to all magicians sooner or later.

So my revised 7S lethality scale, 2005 edition, goes:

Zatanna
For: Hinted at by Ali-Ka-Zoom, crossed the rubicon in Identity Crisis.
Against: Too important to Infinite Crisis (would require a cross-over)

Manhattan Guardian
For: Likeable, noble, has a wife; perfect candidate. No superpowers.
Against: A new character might not have as much impact as a staple character like Zatanna.

Shining Knight
For: Most likely to sacrifice herself for the good of others.
Against: Ongoing series hinted at.

Klarion
For: Emotional impact of killing a youngster.
Against: See above, also he's quite well liked.

Bulleteer
For: Relative unknown, wouldn't create waves.
Against: Bulleteer, Starfire and Powergirl: Pillowfight of Power crossover book no doubt in the works.

Frankenstein
For: Probable pathos, not likely to care about own death.
Against: Already dead.

Mr. Mircale:
For: There can only be one!
Against: May have to take over if the original Mr. Miracle (Scott Free) dies during the Infinite Crisis.

So let's turn it over to the rest of you for a bout of wild speculation.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:44 / 08.09.05
My instinct says Guardian will bite it, but I really don't want him to, since he's such a great character. Zatanna will survive unless DC wants A BIG DEATH THAT WILL SHOCK THE DCU FOR YEARS AND LEAD TO MANY SUBPLOTS!!!
 
 
Quimper
13:57 / 08.09.05
Klarion's death would make a great story. The irony of finally being free to explore Blue Rafters, only to return due to his conscience, and then ultimately be burned for it.

However, I think he and Misty are supposed to have a meeting of the dice, so ne'rmind.

Klarion and Shining Knight are safe. Morrison has done for Zee what he did for Emma, inject a tweaked personality into her, greatly improving the character. So I think she's safe too. Frankenstein probably can't die.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
14:03 / 08.09.05
I think Ali's allusion to the last rule of Magicianry could easily apply to Mr. Miracle, so my vote goes to him. The ultimate disappearing act, if you will.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:12 / 08.09.05
The other question is, who will betray the team? Morrison's interviews have implied there will be a traitor, or possibly a 'failure' in the sense of someone accidentally letting the side down.
 
 
Aertho
14:16 / 08.09.05
Misty = death

Mister Miracle = betray or let down.
 
 
X-Himy
14:25 / 08.09.05
I vote Bulleteer, just because her series interests me the least, as does the character. Plus, I want her to act as the ultimate phallic symbol, a human sword, who plunges headfirst, as a living Excalibur, into the heart of the Sheeda. Heck, the experiment was supposed to keep her eternally beautiful. Who knows, maybe that metal skin is a chunk broken from the cauldron.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:41 / 08.09.05
I think it's quite telling that people are rooting for the characters whose series haven't started yet to die, with the exception of Frankenstein who everyone already loves. I suspect Miracle and Bulleteer may win their own loyalty once their stories are told...
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
14:48 / 08.09.05
I'm fully prepared to love all my Soldiers equally, but at this point, MM just seems to make the most sense.

But that could indeed be because I'm so hip deep in love with our current four soldiers.
 
 
Juan_Arteaga
18:36 / 08.09.05
Misty = death

Could be. After all, in the original story where the Seven Soldiers fight Nebula Man and one of them dies, there is a big mystery surrounding the identity of the soldier who dies, just for the JLA to discover that the soldier who died was one of the guys who wasn't officially a soldier. Misty has been the only character so far officially labeled as a sidekick.

Of course, with her being so Snow Whitey, there is a big chance she will be brought back to life with a kiss from Prince Charming. Problem is, Justin was my candidate for Prince Charming, but now he is Justina and she doesn't seem to swing that way.
 
 
Aertho
18:39 / 08.09.05
Which is why it'll either be Klarion to kiss her back to life, if he's descended from Croatoan, or Frank, if he's made of Croatoan.
 
 
Juan_Arteaga
18:43 / 08.09.05
Why would Frank be made of Croatoan? I mean... other than just a hunch. It could still be Justina. She has a white horse and is pure of heart, which sound incredibly Prince Charminish.

Also, Ali Ka Zoom's last rule of magic could also apply to Misty, since he said she had to learn it.
 
 
Aertho
18:55 / 08.09.05
Hunchy Hunchy Huncho
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:08 / 08.09.05
To go through this possibly cracked theory again, look at the last panel on page 13 of Klarion #3, true believers! From the right, the lugubrious giant, Frankenstein, the goth-ish minx, Zatanna, Klarion, Klarion, the kid in the pantsuit-ish sort of thing, the Bulleteer, the kid in the golden headgear, Guardian, the kid in the especially rough street clothes who says 'bzzt,' as I think the rabbit did repeatedly in We3, the Shining Knight, which leaves Mr Miracle as the flashy, suckered-in traitor.

Shining Knight to die then, Mr Miracle to sell out everyone and then regret it.

There could be problems with this I admit, the Shining Knight's sex change being the major one so far, (then again - misdirection!) but I'd still put a fiver on if I knew of a bookies that, having established that none of these horses were running that day, wouldn't just politely ask me to leave.

Nuff said.
 
 
The Falcon
22:38 / 08.09.05
mmm. Yes, anyway, I'm far more interested myself in the traitor hunt. when we find them, i think I shall burn all four of their comics in a secret vampire ritual.

Does anyone else think that Misty is one of the Seven and Zatanna not?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:55 / 08.09.05
I'd thought that briefly. I actually wondered if it's possible that Zatanna might STEP ASIDE to let Misty be the Seventh; as a exile from Summer's End, she could still pull off a "marriage of opposites" kick somehow. Zatanna might give up her spot - her chance at the fame of saving the world - as part of her own redemption?
 
 
WrinklyBottom
03:13 / 09.09.05
Frequent lurker, not so frequent poster here.
Really digging this whole series right now, thought I'd throw my two cents in.
On the Sheeda:
This idea mostly comes from comments grant made in an interview about the sheeda not being aliens or from another dimension. I think it is quite possible they are humans from the far future/alternate future. They had reached the zenith of thier technological advancements through the use of green lantern technology, or something derived from it. The cost of this development what the depletment of all resources, on earth, and probably the entire universe. To garnish the resources they need they travel to the zenith of past cultures and fleece them for everything they have.

On the Seven Unknown Men:
Perhaps the seven men are the core archetypes of all the heros in any of the great super-groups with 7 members. They make the "suits" of the heroes they become to constantly fight the sheeda threat.(camelot, JLA, 7S, ect) When it comes down to Brass taz however, they can't remember that they are wearing the "suits" and are horribly defeated by the sheeda, only to face the same battle a millenia later.
This seems to jive with GM's previous work, but i dont know if this makes it way off or on the nose.
More thoughts later.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
06:21 / 09.09.05
The Terrible Time Tailor's Motivations:

Just something I noticed as I started flipping through the series again. SS#0, First page:
"They say a black flower grows for every secret drowned in Slaughter Swamp."

TTT in Guardian #4:
"One day black flowers will cover the Earth and kids like you won't be worth a damn."

So that's what he really wants, isn't it? Kill off innocence and wonder and bring all of man's dirty little secrets to the foreground until they destroy us. Pretty much all of the Soldiers are vulnerable to that approach, no? And in a way, it's been the motivating factor for everyone so far at some point. Guilt. The Mood 7 Mind Destroyer.

We've seen it in lots of subtle ways and, in the case of Guardian #4, we've seen the entire process encapsulated in one page. The fact that this is the crux of our main villain's motivation, to me, really highlights what's so great about this work. We're dealing with the B-List, with characters that are intrinsically insecure about themselves, and it'd be real easy to just throw them into a situation, Zeppo-style, and have them win the day. In the span of a 44 minute episode of a Drama, you don't have a lot of digging room. But what we're seeing in SS, since there's such an enormous amount of room, is an incredibly detailed portrait of how those insecurities manifest themselves and play out in the protagonists' choices. Not only that, we've got a villain whose prime moustache-twisting goal is not to take over Manhattan, or hold the planet hostage for billions, but rather to exploit the insecurities that are fundamental to the core idea of the Seven Soldiers and spread them far and wide until they destroy all hope.

It's interesting that the Mirror says the key to Gloriana's defeat is "The Spear That's Never Thrown". Not action, but inaction. Not achievement, which the SS have always fumbled towards but never 100% made it, but rather some kind of internal resilience. It's also making the threat so much more visceral. Even Sublime, who threatened our very strands of DNA, was never a threat that really got inside a one's head and creeped you out, but I think everyone can identify with how scary it would be if we all woke up one morning consumed by our mistakes and our guilt and our inadequacies.

I think Dan DiDio at some point when discussing Infinite Crisis said that every reader knows that Batman or Wonder Woman or Superman is always going to win. Because they are who they are. No matter what, you know they'll win. You just have make the threat interesting enough to make people interested.

Although the same expectation is implicit in Seven Soldiers, of course, and we know that only one of them "WILL DIE", they are emotionally vulnerable in ways that regular Super-Heroes never are. We know that no matter what crazy shit Batman's dealing with, he'll have enough in him to pull it together long enough to punch out The Joker. However, it's not at all impossible for Klarion to turn away those in need due to selfishness. For Jake to abandon those in need because of depression. For Z to let her insecurities threaten the world (and, incidentally, evaporate a seance full of mystics). Even Justine had her moments of doubt.

It's the kind of thing that made the Marvel Universe appealing for decades and caused the DCU to stagnate completely. Most revamps from either of the Big Two have been attempts at heightening smaller characters to greater heights, make So And So more iconic by modernizing his or her appeal. The reason Seven Soldiers is so successful, in my mind, is because it's doing exactly the opposite. It's taking characters and exposing their flaws. Instead of giving them the life-altering act of heroism in the first issue, we see them flounder over the course of four issues and then, presumably, watch them finally have that "Issue #1" moment. Or not. It's entirely possible that they could emerge from SS#1 still wracked with insecurity. After all, it's been suggested that they never meet at all. They could potentially have no idea whether or not the Sheeda and the TTT has been defeated, and go on the rest of their lives hoping for their shot to save the world, the way Ed hoped for his.

Anyway. Just some things that have been running through my head.
 
 
Mario
11:08 / 09.09.05
Here's a thought...

If (as has been suggested in the Guardian thread) 7 Soliders #1 takes place after/concurrently with these minis...what does that say about I, Spyder?
 
 
Mario
11:11 / 09.09.05
Sorry, I meant 7 Soldiers #0.
 
 
LDones
23:51 / 11.09.05
The idea, from Andy above, that the Sheeda are humanoids from the future and come to stripmine the past to sustain themselves, is interesting. And works along with the current 7S meta-commentary on superhero comics - brilliant, but never matured, just gotten old; far ahead of their time, but desperately stripmining their own history just to sustain themselves. Makes me think of George's takes on Lex Luthor and Dr. Doom, who could cure cancer and better mankind if they weren't so fixated on petty ideas.

We've seen that the Sheeda use green lanterns, in Shining Knight. We've seen Melmoth using an Erdel Gate, the technology that first brought Martian Manhunter to earth, and he steals an old drill machine from a superhero museum. I wouldn't be surprised if the spine riders and tiny Sheeda had shrunk themselves using a variant of Ray Palmer's Atom technology, and I begin to wonder what other prominent JLA technology is being used by the Sheeda to fulfill their ends. Are the Sheeda stripmining superhero history, specifically? I mean more than just incidentally by virtue of it being in the DCU... To what purpose? Just sport? I doubt it.

If this theory holds true, it stays the Morrison theme of fairytales and superhero stories coming from some far-flung stage of our development communicating backwards in time through random means, although with a bit of a less pleasant spin.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:06 / 12.09.05
Hmmm, is the 'Seven Soldiers' part of Morrison's scheme to make the DCU sentient?
 
 
Mario
11:36 / 12.09.05
Isn't everything?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:29 / 12.09.05
In the Guardian thread, Hector said:

and I wonder is, by the time 7S #1 is solicited, DC won't announce issues 2 and 3...

While I don't expect it to happen, it does seem that each of the miniseries so far comprises an origin story - so far it's the final issues of the two that have finished that give you a real sense of the protagonists' motivations. My desire to see more than just one issue is born of a mix of excitement and worry here: excitement because I want as many pages as possible of Jake Jordan smashing up giant robot insects with a stick, and worry because Morrison has left himself too little space to wrap things up before ('Here Comes Tomorrow', anyone?).
 
 
Sax
13:20 / 12.09.05
Been having a think about this over the weekend.

It's obvious, innit? Slaughter Swamp is the Hundred Acre Wood - not quite real, the place where strange things happen... where the walls between dimensions are thin. The Pooh books are really meta - the narrator telling the stories to Christopher Robin and him "remembering" fiction as it is told to him.

Summer's End in SS has direct analogies with the story An Enchanted Place in which Christopher Robin has to go off to school and tells Pooh that he won't be around much = the death of innocence = the dark side of the bright and garish DC universe = fallout from Infinite Crisis.

Pooh = slightly bewildered, fiercely loyal, trying to do the best by everyone = Manhattan Guardian
Tigger = bouncy, first time to the forest appears out of the stormy night = Bulletteer (could be seen to be "bouncing around the sky"), emerges from death scenario of husband
Kanga = Zatanna, DC Universe veteran, "mother" figure to Misty
Roo = Misty, similar powers/attributes to Kanga/Zatanna but represents next generation
Rabbit = inventions, technology = Mister Miracle
Eeyore = seems older than the rest, world-weary, bits of body (tail) always falling off = Frankenstein
Owl = wisdom of ages but not what he appears (can't actually read) = Shining Knight
Lumpy the Heffalump (taking the later Disney cartoons as canon, which is a bit of a risk) = New boy, young, originally emerges from dark, mysterious area (Heffalump Hollow) = Klarion
 
 
admiral sausage
17:07 / 13.09.05
Nothing to do today, so re-read all of Seven soldiers so far.

The sheeda being from the future, In Shining Knight 3, Glorianna (in disguise says "Once I dreamed of interacrting with living specimens from a dead world. The past is somthing you can touch." Seems pretty likely .

In Manhatten Guardian 1, Mr Stargard talks about his golem as being from a team of elementals he created when he was 4, could Strato (synthetic cloud man), the undying dons right hand man be another one of Stargards old team ?
 
 
Quimper
17:20 / 13.09.05
Pretty likely, considering we now know the relationship between Don Vincenzo and Ed Starsgard. Were the golems created to protect the survivors of the Newsboy Army against any returning, fairy-like threats?

If so, does the elusive Li'l Hollywood have a fire or water golem by her side?


I want to take another look at I, Spyder. Anyone think it's more likely that *he* is one of the 7? He's been "tailored" to pull off some kind of big job. I seriously doubt that the 7UM went through all that trouble so he could a) fail so miserably at Miracle Mesa or b) serve Gloriana's animal needs. Plus, the original Spyder was part of the original Seven Soliders, why not this one?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
17:35 / 13.09.05
Klarion will betray the team, and Klarion will die.

He's part Sheeda. He's learning deciet from Baddee and Melmoth. And he loves consumption and novelty.

The Sheeda can provide infinite consumption and unending novelty. He's motivated by selfishness and, thanks to Misty, is most easily replaced. He'll switch to the winning team and pay the price when they turn it round, the vicious little bastard.

That's my speculation, anyhow.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:26 / 19.09.05
from LYING IN THE GUTTERS, scroll down a bit:
    Seven Soldiers #0

    • "Seven Soldiers Of Victory" - at no point in any of the books so far do we see any of the
      soldiers, teams or groups achieving victory.
    • Are
      the elements of the Seven Soldiers 'crest' from the front of #0 important? A skull, a lightning bolt, a sword, flames, an eagle, stars
      and a shield...?
    • The prologue is called 'True Thomas' - presumably the remade Thomas Dalt (I, Spyder) is a False Thomas? Also refers to the song the Ferryman sings.
    • Thomas is being carried by an enigmatic ferryman who speaks only in italics - is he already dead?
    • "They say a black flower grows for every secret drowned in Slaughter Swamp..." - dismissed as a 'creepy local legend' - first instance of myth and legend being discredited.
    • Gold's transformation to Grundy - alchemy in reverse? Clear link to Thomas's subsequent tranformation as well.
    • "Slaughter Swamp is one of those in-between places, where solid things turn soft and change, like Cyrus did... Like Justice and Humanity sometimes do... Into monsters." - Reference to good becoming bad, to betrayal?
      Dismissed by Thomas as 'fairy tales'.

    • "You've got a bit more depth to you, eh? Two sides, at least." - first appearance of the 2D/3D theme.
    • "O see ye not yon narrow road..." - a song with particularly interesting connotations.
    • 'Mosquitoes' biting the Spider - an inversion of the natural order? Is this the point where Dalt is compromised? Certainly, it is where he is poisoned.
    • "Sometimes, in an emergency like this, we have to let you locals into one or two of our secrets." - the Seven Unknown Men are from elsewhere, or elsewhen.
    • "Another schmuck with a bow and arrows!" - was the previous 'schmuck' Dalt's father, the original Alias the Spider? Originally, Alias the Spider was a good guy who pretended to be a crook to infiltrate criminal gangs. In Geoff Johns' Stars And S.T.R.I.P.E., that was flipped - the original Alias the Spider became a bad guy who pretended to be a hero to infiltrate teams of good guys, in particular the original Seven Soldiers. He tampered with a weapon they were going to use on the Nebula Man, but Wing defeated him, used the weapon, and gave his life to save the rest of the team, although they were subsequently scattered through time, which is how Vigilante became stranded in the Old West.
    • "Where's the twist? Where's the gimmick?" - overt reference to the 'twist' motif that is present in all the books; also, possible reference to Gimmix?
    • "Seven Unknown Men of Slaughter Swamp... Mystery Men..." - the 'Mystery Men' motif is repeated elsewhere.
    • Dalt - assisted suicide? The only person he has to kill is himself? How does this fit with the other soldiers; are they expected to die as well?
    • "We have to... well... tailor you to fit the job." - overt link between the S.U.M. and the Tailor.
    • "Thomas, see that old poem I read to you? [...] There's a third road..." - the ferryman was one of the S.U.M. The verse referred to, and the 'third road', is this:
      And see not ye that bonny road
      That winds about the ferny brae?
      That is the road to fair Elfland,
      Where thou and I this night maun gae.
    • "It was my dad's tunic... And my brother... I... I just don't want to lose it." - reference to the importance of predecessors and family, especially parents, and how their children need them.

    • Skull & crossbones motif on the Black Piss Beer bottle.

    • "In the world of the Super-Cowboys, there's always blood." - first appearance of the blood motif.
    • "There are always special destinies. Tales of loss and vengeance. Family obligations. Blood. Spilled or otherwise." - Seven Soldiers in a nutshell? Also, does this suggest that there will always be teams of seven to fight against Gloriana in perpetuity?
    • Powerhouse Magazine #172 - headline is "Why all the symbolism?" A wry joke.
    • On Shelly's bookshelf are the titles "Super Men & Women of the Golden
      Age" and "Mystery Men". History and mystery - both important.
    • "Isn't it funny how everything connects?" - overt reference to the connections; link to Ali-Ka-Zoom's concept of 'Mystery String'.
    • "...preferably with a veteran, some newcomers, a tough guy..." - archetypal team makeup. Does this refer to all of the teams of seven? Of the main Seven, Justin is the 'veteran' member of the team, as he has fought the Sheeda before, Guardian and presumably Bulleteer are the newcomers, and Frankenstein the hard case..? Or is Frankenstein the veteran, if Vigilante's reference to a 'Johnny Frankenstein' rounding up the Buffalo Spider in 1875 is the same person...?
    • Shelly's book is entitled "Body Thunder - How I Turned My Body Into A Living Weapon To Beat the 21st Century Blues". - transformation again; reference to Dyno-mite Dan and possibly Bulleteer?
    • "Maybe then my mother will take my life seriously." - more concern over absent, disapproving parents - the only way to gain approval is by dying?
    • "Is it when the joke becomes real?" - reference to grim reality destroying fantasy again - cf. the Newsboy Army's dissolution, among others.
    • "For a moment, I feel the presence of a much bigger reality. Like mountains looming all around me." - reality pressing in, after 2-3 pages of references to things like Zorro and CGI - fantasy being subsumed by reality again.
    • "You won't find Miracle Mesa on any map; it's a legend. A place that comes and goes." - another 'In-between Place'.
    • "I'm talking big ideas about space and time and how we got here an' all. They say Miracle Mesa revolves through many worlds." - are Miracle Mesa and Castle Revolving one and the same place, or do they just share traits?

    • "They call this place the hunting ground of gods and wild riders." - reference to the 'Huntsman' aspect of Neh-Buh-Loh; also to the Wild Hunt of fairy lore.
    • "The indians say the Buffalo Spider is a ghost animal. From the Ghost Country. Bad luck, omen of doom." - Is the 'Ghost Country' Summer's End? Does this link to other images of bad luck, like the broken mirror in Zatanna?
    • Vigilante - a similar sort of character to Ebeneezer Badde? Craggy, unshaven, gun-toting, sardonic, resigned, but still a man of action?
    • "My Seventh Soldier got cold feet at the last minute." - who was that supposed to have been? Johnny Frankenstein?
    • Gimmix - possibly the adult version of L'il Hollywood - certainly bears the hallmarks of a faded star (older than she makes out to be, facelift, makes a living off the convention circuit, plus she looks like a stereotypical starlet.
    • Where did Boy Blue get his horn?
    • Dyno-Mite Dan's rings are "Golden-Age Mystery Rings".
    • Spyder - skin is grey like all the other creatures ensorcelled - Grundies, Galahad, the golem? Also he is marked upon his skin with tattoos - 'branded'.
    • Gimmix - fallen asleep clutching a bottle of 'Blood Red Whisky'.
    • "I hate this whole stupid thing" - skull motif again. Perhaps death has become their seventh member?
    • "Giovanni Zatara. Wonderful man. What a dancer. Old school. I know his daughter from my therapy group. JLA girl." - why is Gimmix discussing G.Z., of all people?
    • "[Greg Sanders] could have been the singing country cook on TV instead of wasting all his time with all this Super-Cowboy stuff." - again, reality is regarded as more important than fantasy.
    • Spyder's information about spiders - irrelevant, considering they may be robots/constructs? Or is it relevant to the Sheeda as well as their mounts?
    • "Sleeping with 'I, Spyder' (whose real name is Thomas Ludlow Dalt) is my contribution to the complex intergroup dynamics essential for any superteam. Playing the diva asshole is Jackie's." - again, pooh-poohing the artifice of fantasy, and mocking the fabric of the group already.
    • "We bait the beast, just like I did. Make it waltz right into our trap." - obvious double-meaning here, as Spyder is leading the group into a trap as well. But is it also a reference to what the S.U.M. are doing with the real Seven Soldiers?
    • "The number seven is very important. There were seven champions of Christendom, seven spirits of the throne of God, seven virtues, seven sins, seven sleepers, seven wise masters..." - I don't think any of these instances of seven are referred to elsewhere in the series - not relevant? Too obvious?
    • "Nah, it's just a shell. It shed its skin after the collision, molted to a more adult form." - reference to becoming an adult; also the casting-off of outer (dead) 'skin', like Justin's deception being uncovered, Guardian quitting his position, Zatanna losing her magic (?) and Klarion becoming a Witch-Man/leaving Limbo Town. Also a reference to the 'suits' made by the Tailor, and also the S.U.M.

    • "The spider is my totem. One day a spider will kill me." - Spyder knows the circumstance of his own death - reference to Klarion's ability? Is this a curse? Does it mean that he will kill himself, or perhaps be killed by the Sheeda?
    • Spyder - draws bow left-handed - 'sinister'?
    • Buffalo Spider - has 'a saddle and reins around its head' - where is its rider? What is it doing there?
    • Gimmix - knew the 'real' Boy Blue.
    • "Our 'secret identities' are forgotten." - blurring of reality and fantasy. Which identities; their heroic lives, or their mundane ones?
    • "Is this what real superheroes feel?" - overt confession that they are false, a failed team, before they've even started.
    • "I'm all wrapped up in prophecy and myth." - again, the appearance of myth as a concept, but also as an entanglement - myth as a bad thing. Possible reference to the suits of the Tailor; also to a spider cocooning its prey?
    • "It's some kind of a machine, man." - the enslaved 'construct' motif again. Also means their victory over the Buffalo Spider is hollow?
    • Miracle Mesa - appears as a sort of revolving castle.
    • "What kind of prey do you suppose Gods might lower themselves to hunt, hmm?" - hunting and gods linked; what does this mean for the likes of Croatoan? Is he absent because he is hunting? Are superheroes the only prey of hunting gods?
    • First reference to the 'Harrowing', and first appearance of Neh-Buh-Loh following his creation in JLA:Classified.
    • "Except seven none returned from Castle Revolving." - does this refer to the Knights of the Shattered Table, or is it a prophecy fortelling the success of the Seven Soldiers?
    • "Plan B is already under way, gentlemen." - this failed attempt was the S.U.M.'s first attempt at stopping the Sheeda?
    • "Seven more conscripts?" - none of the Soldiers are willing participants?
    • The S.U.M. are packing Justin's tabard, Guardian's helmet, the 'train gun', a glove and a pentagram/hex symbol (among others?) into boxes - presents for the 'conscripts' - the 'King's Shilling', as it were?
    • "Leave the Time-Sewing Machine!" - vital tool abandoned? It looks almost like a vehicle, like a train - are the secret tunnels and trains in Guardian some sort of cloth or pattern being woven?
    • The fact that the S.U.M. are leaving means Ali-Ka-Zoom's statement in Zatanna that only the S.U.M. can help now is false?

    • There are six (new?) black flowers in Slaughter Swamp at the foot of the page - do they represent the dead Soldiers (although Spyder is still alive) or do they represent the members of the S.U.M. - presuming the Tailor to be a rogue element therein - wwho have departed, leaving secrets buried in the swamp?


    Shining Knight #1 - 4

    • The cauldron brings the dead back to life - perhaps it will not matter who dies?
    • Olwen refers to Summer's End being located in the "Land of the Vampire Sun" - a black hole reference?
    • Castle Revolving - doesn't look like Miracle Mesa... but doesn't it look a little like a Bleed vessel like the Carrier? Certainly it looks more like a vessel than a fortress.
    • Some bizarre numbers in this issue; it's not clear is they're some sort of intentional and utterly esoteric code of Morrison's, or just artistic whimsy from someone who may not be familiar with US conventions. Here are some of them: in SK1, one car numberplate reads 'S.C.155Q.' The
      police badge Justin sees is number 00391, and the building looks a bit like the Guardian headquarters. In SK2, the policecar numberplate is P955699. The bumper that Justin lashes out with has the plate 19SABQU on it, and this is repeated in two frames. Finally, the police car door has a curious crest on it, and the letters TOYYC.
    • The hoarding for the film 'Cup of Blood' is presumably a reference to both the Grail and the Cauldron (which are presumably the same thing). The fact that the male character is a 'spy' and the female a 'mermaid' is difficult to tally with the title of the film. Is this another illustration of the ridiculousness of fantasy? The actress' surname, Stellamaris, means something alone the lines of 'sea of stars' in mangled latin.
    • The 'weapon even unstoppable Mordredd might fear' could be the 'Power-Stone' - or some sort of nuclear bomb? - as in forging it, the Dwarrows and the knights of the Broken Table 'split the building blocks of matter itself', and once All-Beard and No-Beard have fought in the House of Croatoan, the apparent resting-place of the Power-Stone, No-Beard is contaminated by radiation... The delirious All-Beard says 'is that you, Fights-With-Chains? Can't you see I'm walking barefoot on tiles of radioactive pearl? There's a God in burning shackles! He lifts his awful, star-maned head and says... says...' And Ebeneezer Badde, in the House of Croatoan, says, 'Maybe there WAS a god here once but he's long, long gone. He ESCAPED and left us on here alone. Only his dreadful CHAINS remain.' - these chains have been split asunder and their captive released, so maybe Croatoan is some sort of atomic thing? Or a god of radiation? Or perhaps Neh-Buh-Loh, given the reference to a 'star-maned head', and the fact that N-B-L was, in his nascent form as the Universe of Qwewq, a cube-shape.
    • 'Sky-High' Helligan - perhaps this character is one of the 'unsung heroes' who crop up in the books as supporting characters? Like Don Vicenzo, Cassandra, Ebeneezer Badde... perhaps they are the real Seven Soldiers, while the title characters are decoys? Helligan's talents are pattern recognition and being pure of heart; is this why Gloriana takes particular steps to incapacitate/poison/enslave her? If these heroes are 'unsung', does it mean that they have not been given a story or a suit by the Tailor, and thus are free to make their own narratives?
    • The 'Silencio' that Don Vicenzo is fighting is a member of Melmoth's organisation, and is seen giving the presentation on Roanoke and Limbo Town in Klarion. Melmoth's organisation is, presumably, the 'East Coast Mob'.
    • Gloriana's husband seems to be Melmoth, and she appears surprised that he is alive.
    • "This is fucking mythology calling." - Don Vincenzo prefers the wonder of myth to reality - a common theme among the Newsboy Army - Gimmix clings to faded youth, Baby Brain to the illusion of being a normal adult, and Ali-Ka-Zoom to still being alive...

    • Crazyface refers to the 'four tops' guarding Don Vincenzo - the number four is repeated throughout the series.

    • The spider mounts of the Sheeda are again referred to as being 'cheap robots'. Is this a reference to the ex-military robots at Century Hollow? Or to the robotic back-up JLA that Batman used in JLA:C?

    • Neh-Buh-Loh crushes the fantasy and mythology of Don Vicenzo, describing it as "just blood and mud and heat leaving meat." - another blood reference, and also one to the mention in Guardian of clay being the link between organic and inorganic matter. This is also perhaps how a celestial and possibly divine being like Neh-Buh-Loh might regard humanity, in the most simple terms.
    • Sir Justin is both a 'falsebeard' and a 'no-beard'.


    Manhattan Guardian #1 - 4

    • The headline from the front page of the Guardian - 'headless horror in haunted hospital' - a reference to the beheaded Galahad, perhaps?
    • Jake goes for a job interview with a 'Mr Stargard' - more references to stars?
    • Brutus, the last of the 'golems four' (Is Don Vincenzo's bodyguard Strato, the 'air-golem of the east', another?), is a branded construct or enslaved being, just like I, Spyder, the Grundies, Mo Colley, the Century Hollow ex-war-robots from Guardian #3, Galahad in Shining Knight, Batman's robotic stand-in JLA in JLA:C, and the brainwashed members of the Ultramarines.
    • Perhaps the golem inscription, Galahad's pentagram, the programs of the Century Hollow robots - they are their 'stories'? Maybe the 'time tailor' is fiction-suiting around the narrative within these characters...
    • "Clay is the missing link between organic and inorganic matter" - see previous notes to SK4; also, does it explain the grey pallor of the enslaved? Also, the Muslim creation story holds that God created man by breathing into clay and clotted blood.
    • The date of Tyree Plantain's death is 9.13.03, as displayed on the CCTV recording. Is this significant?
    • The 'Ghost Pirates' article appears to mention The Authority (although it is almost certainly a truncation of 'the authorities', but it remains a curious possibility).

    • Behind the stranded Guardian-Mobile is a Pumpkin Taxi - contrast to the 'Gypsy Taxi' in Zatanna and to the Pumpkin Taxi being joyridden by the Deviant Ones in Klarion. Is this a Cinderella reference? - In the DCU, New York is referred to as the "Cinderella city", with its two "ugly stepsisters", Metropolis and Gotham, grabbing all the attention. Is some grand illusion going to fade at midnight? The clock in the police station when Gloriana abandons her historian disguise was reading midnight...
    • The map of the secret tunnels looks more like the London tube map than the New York one... or more like a spider's web, perhaps.
    • The reference to Mister Miracle trying to escape an artificial black hole links to Gloriana Tenebrae in Shining Knight, when she's disguised as the historian, talking about Caliburn Ex Calibur - 'something forged at the dawn of time to endure until the last black star swallows it whole'.

    • Perhaps Edward J. Lincoln of the Newsboy Army (#49 - 7x7) is another unsung hero?
    • Skull & Crossbones motif on the front of the President Clinton.

    • The secret words to open the way to the hidden lines - "the words God spoke when he made it all" - are 'IIIIAMMMYUUUHUAMIIIII' - 'I am you who am I'. Which God? the Christian one? Croatoan? The Red God of Ys? Ra-Man? Neh-Buh-Loh? Or the Supreme Architect that Gwydion mentions, if that is different to the other members of this list?
    • The Horigal from Klarion is the creature that the President Clinton tube train smashes through on its way through the secret tube lines - is this the closest the action comes in the books so far? As concurrent events are described in 2 different books?
    • The station through which the Pres. Clinton passes is 'Cenozoic Station' - where is this station?
    • After the train's plunge into Dead Man's Junction, a rat is sat atop the junction lever - did the rat cause the crash, is it a "smart rat", and could it be the same rat, perhaps, that Teekl kills in Klarion #1?
    • The House of Croatoan is where All-Beard and No-Beard fight over the 'Power-Stone'. The radiation of the chains or the blue-glowing liquid seems enough to poison the (presumably) victorious No-Beard so that he becomes "sick and soon to die", but Klarion and Badde seem relatively unaffected by it, not to mention the submissionaries to must have preceded them. Perhaps they are already tainted?
    • The die, the power-stone, is incomplete. It only has six sides. However, a die represents 7 options, you can roll and get 1 through 6. Or, you can chose not to roll at all.
    • A skeleton in the House of Croatoan is holding a tattered red flag in the background of the pirates' fight, which is a possible link to Lancelot on the first page of Shining Knight #1.
    • Do the grave markers at Jake's father in law's funeral have any significance? The names are [?Ge?]rrard, McLeod, Shannon, Murray, Bluth and Christine Taylor...
    • No-Beard transforms from just a crazy guy called Eamon Garcia to the main figure in a ghost story all of his own - a "bizarre legend" of a "mad pirate king" - fantasy triumphing over reality? Is No-Beard an 'Unsung Hero'?
    • In Century Hollow, the rogue robots' numerical utterances are as follows: 00911, 00711, 00511, 00311, 00811, 00811, 00211.

    • Jorge refers to Century Hollow as being a '3D map of political and social reality' - another 2D/3D reference; the map of the hidden tunnels was by contrast a 2D map of political and social fantasy... Is Century Hollow one of the metaplots of Seven Soldiers? A man creates a kingdom, then loses it to the woman he created - possible Eden reference?
    • The tourist Ike is 75 years old, like the childlike superhero at Zatanna's 'AA'-style meeting.
    • Jake's engagement ring - a reference to the rings of Dyno-Mite Dan, the ring Zatanna holds up in the magic shop, and possibly to Green Lantern? Is it a representation that his relationship is as bogus or doomed as the rings of Dan?
    • Jorge's excuse/alibi, that there were three or five attackers, and their leader had a tattooed amish-style beard, (a False-Beard?) is a curious amount of detail to put into a cover story.
    • Hanna Control is possibly also a construct, if Jorge is to be believed - her having sex with "those machines" and him crying "I made you" suggest that she is also a machine - a Stepford Wife, perhaps.
    • The Newsboy Army's adventures are pure fantasy - "wouldja believe...?", the land of Golden Top Hats (another reference to gold?), the reference to 'another story'. Ironic that the arch storyteller of their group, Baby Brains, should become the 'brains' behind a supposed conveyor of reality - the Guardian newspaper.
    • Mo Colley's best friend is a police horse - a familiar? A reference to Shining Knight?
    • The Castle Revolving is a 'murder factory', perhaps? When Gloriana screams at Justin in SK1 that "you don't know what Castle Revolving is!" is this what she is referring to? Or is it more than this as well?
    • The Newsboy Army's headquarters was located at the corner of Nowhere St and Nowhere Square - a fiction? Or was it another In-between Place?
    • The Newsboy Army encounter the Tailor, presumably after the S.U.M. have abandoned the Gold place, as the time-sewing machine is still there. There are 'halos' of flying Sheeda here - has Misty been here before?
    • The Tailor is trying to cover the world in the black flowers, which represent secrets and possibly death - also a reference to the corruption planted inside Qwewq in JLA:C?
    • The Tailor might be a traitor in the Seven Unknown Men, as they too could be a team of seven destroyed by Gloriana Tenebrae...
    • "The end of the Queen of Terror's reign with a spear that never was thrown" - riff on Longinus' Spear? The Dolorous Blow to the Fisher King in the Morte D'Arthur? Again, just like Spyder, Gloriana knows the circumstances of her doom - are the 'villains' fated to lose? Have their 'suits' already been decided, just like those of the 'heroes'?
    • The Tailor says to the Newsboy Army, 'give me that silly outsize TOP HAT you wear, Ali. I'LL look good in that.' ...and so perhaps it is him, not Ali, that appears in SK#2 on the bench next to Justin, or in Cass' magic shop? Or perhaps A-K-Z becomes his fiction suit?
    • The mentions of the Gold place here and the Red Place in Klarion tally with Gloriana's statement after the Harrowing of Camelot - "like red and bleeding gold are the sunsets of this age."
    • Larry Marcus (Jake's late father-in-law) was known to the Newsboy Army as 'El Mar' - another secret?



    Zatanna #1 - 3

    • Zatanna's first words concern her guilt. Guilt stalks most, if not all, of the Soldiers. Vincenzo, Kid Scarface from the Newsboy Army, is wracked with guilt (as is Baby Brains) for what they did to Cap, and only when Ali-Ka-Zoom absolves him is he able to die peacefully. Justin is stalked by a literal Guilt Figure - the Mood 7 Mind Destroyer - for his failure to avert the Harrowing of Camelot; Zatanna's first words are "You want guilt?" Guardian is suffering with guilt for shooting the innocent Tyree Plantain, and Klarion is later made guilty by Teekl for abandoning both the Deviant Ones and Limbo Town to the predations of Melmoth.
    • Is the chaos symbol on her shirt seven-pointed? Or eight? 6 seems to be the number of imperfection, of incompleteness, whereas 8 is the number of the spider-linked Sheeda...
    • Giovanni Zatara's top hat - refers to both the Tailor and to Ali-Ka-Zoom? IS it the same topper?
    • The secret 13th month of magic as called 'Arachne', and it's on the 7th day of this month that Zatanna has the seance with the Invincibles at Winter's house. Among the Invincibles is 'Doctor 13', the "professional skeptic", who is a common associate of the Phantom Stranger.
    • Zatanna's seance very closely parallels the post-Crisis seance at Winter's House in Swamp Thing #50, in which Constantine, Zatanna, Zatara, Winter, Mento, Sargon and Dr. Occult tried to help in the ultimate battle of good and evil. Much like Zatanna's seance, they didn't do much good and managed to get most of themselves killed or maimed instead. Zatara died in this conflict (the flashback in Zatanna #1 of Zatara burning: "Too late, my love, too late") by taking an energy bullet meant for Zatanna.
      Interestingly enough, the bolt was targeting the weakest link in the chain and beelined for Zatanna. Zatara forced it towards himself magically -- "Ssenkrad ekat em daestni." Gwydion's appearance is extremely similar to Zatara's death; perhaps this indicates something of an Elektra complex on Zatanna's part?
    • The Invincibles convene their seance about a round - and unshattered - table, although there are scorched hand-marks from the seance in which her father died still in evidence on the table.

    • The jumping between brane universes is much like the Bleed of the WSU, and is also more fusion between the 2D and 3D universes. Of course, the way to picture three dimensions is like a cube... or a die... The 'green six-sided sun' of the Interreality of Ra is a clear link to the dice motif - a 'cube star from the bright-world' - as well as the dimensional references. Timothy Ravenwind refers to having to jump across the universes as beng 'just like changing trains while they're moving' - see Guardian #2.
    • Justin's name in the tongue of Avalon is 'Ystin'. Zatanna, when travelling through the dimensions with the Invincibles, encounters the 'Red God of Ys', frozen before it can swallow the universe (like a black hole?). Justin also says after killing the fallen Galahad that 'red I am with blood'.
    • The realm of 'Never-Be-Found' - is this a tenuous link to Neh-Buh-Loh? Or just more secrets and obscurity?

    • The realm of "human knowledge" is a rare allusion to Christian religious mythology - the tree of knowledge, the tempting shapeshifting 'dragon' (Gwydion) who leads them all to destruction...
    • The four treasures of Camelot link to the four books of Giovanni Zatara (and fits in with the numbers themes - seven soldiers, four issues each, and so on).
    • Time distortion appears to happen in this realm, as Taia becomes old and then young again - another form of transformation?
    • Is this place an antidote to the secrets and the black flowers of Slaughter Swamp? For instance, Timothy Ravenwind finds the 'final secret' of Crowley - his Book of the Perplexed...
    • The seance takes place in 'Winter's House' - is this a link to Summer's End? He says, "my house will survive the coming storm and plague, as ever, but it will survive alone." Is this the Harrowing, or the impending Crisis?
    • Mention of "2D plate holographic theory" - more dimensional stuff. Holographic theory is crudely along these lines: The entropy/information of a black hole is proportional to the surface area, not volume. ie: 2D not 3D. A good representation of this would be a die, it's what's on the surface that counts.
    • Mention of both Starro and the 'JLA star tent' - more star references? Zatanna herself is also something of a faded 'star' - as is Gimmix, if she is a mature L'il Hollywood - and everyone seems to make a big deal out of her having been in the JLA. She is also an 'air sign'. Are these star references links to Neh-Buh-Loh?
    • The Gypsy cab that Misty calls is number 013. On the advert on the roof of the cab are legible the words 'Orphelia 9-12'.
    • Is 'IXAT' an intentional, concrete reference to the Invisibles? Or just Morrison being playful?
    • Misty's die has roman numerals as numbers. Klarion's one and the one fought over the the pirates (probably the same artifact?) have conventional 'pips' on them.
    • The magic shop is number 818 - an entirely symmetrical number.

    • Misty is only "mostly innocent" - perhaps her 'Snow White'-ness is not so totally clear-cut...
    • * The passage of writing that Gwydion inhabits in Zatanna #2 is full of clues and hints: he has been 'the narrow blade of a sword', a 'shining star', a 'light in a lantern for a year and a half' - the lantern that Justin uses in SK#1? - a 'shield in fight', the 'seventh letter in an alphabet'. He turns into a 'g' shortly after, but given the other alphabets used throughout - Ogham, hieroglyphics - it would not be surprising if he was in them too. Given the large numbers of characters whose names begin with 'g' - Gloriana (herself a shapeshifter), Gwydion, Galahad, Guardian, Gimmix, Goldenboy, Gold, Grundy, Golem... Is this significant, or merely coincidence?
    • Gwydion is referred to as the 'Shapeless One' and is perhaps the 'Royal Were-Dragon' aspect of Merlin? Who is/was the 'Golden Age Shapeless-One' referred to by Zatanna? Presumably Justin will be able to recognise Gwydion as Merlin. Gimmix also refers to being molested by a shapeshifter. Gwydion is also 'the man of [Zatanna's] dreams', but this doesn't necessarily mean in a straightforward amorous sense.
    • Misty finds what appears to be a sundered head in a box in the magic shop. A reference to Se7en, perhaps?

    • Prowley the cat, who speaks in hieroglyphics, is a pun on Crowley, presumably.
    • It's likely that Cass sold the dud rings to Dyno-Mite Dan (or sold dud rings much like them), but who bought the 'imitation ruby of life'?
    • Zatanna's rules of magic are thus:

      1. Nothing is what it seems

      2. Learn to fool the experts
      3. If you can't keep it down, don't bring it up
      4. Preparation - always keep one card up your sleeve
        ...and the last rule is: the magician has to vanish with his trick,
        leaving the audience and his beautiful assistants to go on without him.

    • Does that mean that Zatanna is going to die?
    • The 'big man with an accent' who was in Cass' shop - was he A-K-Z or the Tailor? His hands seem to be those of a black man, but he is dressed much more smartly that A-K-Z, who is also not at all big...
    • A-K-Z is referred to by Zatanna as 'the Merlin of the Ghetto'. - Link to Gwydion?
    • Reference to the "Newsboy Army Murder Case" - who got murdered? Chop Suzi? Or Cap 7? Or both?
    • Gwydion serves "the new supreme architect of the universe whose name is yet hidden" - is this Grant Morrison? the Tailor? Or someone we've not met yet?
    • Kid William Tell's crossbow bolt - was he a Golden Age character? Just some other schmuck with a bow? Or a Newsboy-Army-style kid adventurer?
    • The ghost bus from Shining Knight reappears to deliver A-K-Z.
    • Is the Tempter like the Mood 7 Mind Destroyer?
    • Is the secret about Misty just her parentage? Or is there more?
    • "Logical immunity" seems to be the way to confront and defeat minor demons - Would someone from eons ago like Justin not have this defence, therefore he cannot easily defeat Guilt?
    • Zatanna confesses she "used my powers to change people's lives and memories." - more guilt? Perhaps it's not so easy to defeat?
    • A-K-Z: "there's nothing in that box but a big deep hole where we dropped a poor foolish boy once and you know why? Because he did something the rest of us decided was wrong." - another black hole reference? Contrast with the door to the Red Place. More guilt?
    • "Mystery string" holds everything together - theme of connection; also a reference to the 'time-sewing machine', perhaps?
    • "Mighty and unseen hands shape our mortal clay" - more clay references, more control references. Are the unseen hands those of the S.U.M. or Morrison? Or this unnamed 'supreme architect'?
    • A-K-Z to Zatanna: "Don't tell me you can't recognise a trick when you see one?" - does he mean the Seven Soldiers? Or something smaller in focus?
    • A-K-Z on Kid Scarface/Don Vincenzo: "we're here to attend the end of empires and childhood dreams, ladies." - once again, dreams and fantasy have come to an end - the death of mythology once more.
    • The spider carcass that Misty finds doesn't seem to be a machine this time. However, she does compare it to "one of her favourite toys". It's been "all the way from the dawn of time to the last days and back".
    • Zatanna: "Ali, if anything happens to her, it's my fault and her mother will probably kill me." - Zatanna seemingly dooming herself there.
    • Neh-Buh-Loh is referred to as the 'celestial huntsman'.

    • "This is a ghost story, Zatanna." - airy, insubstantial fiction?

    • "the Seven Unknown Men of Slaughter Swamp are your best hope now." - Surely they've already gone, though?
    • The Tempter knows Kid Scarface (Don Vicenzo) - "we met in that Haunted Hall Of Mirrors when you were just eleven, remember?" - was this when KS was still in the Newsboy Army? What was he tempted with? Did he succumb to the temptation? Did this have anything to do with Cap 7 and Chop Suzi's fates?

    • More Zatanna guilt: "I was a really bad superhero, Misty. I did lots of stuff superheroes shouldn't do and what's worse is, I got caught."

    • Misty is a 'princess', and N-B-L is a 'huntsman'. - Fairy tale fiction roles? Like Snow White? Gloriana is Misty's wicked stepmother, orders N-B-L the huntsman to take Misty into the woods and kill her, but N-B-L is struck by remorse and lets Misty escape. Misty flees ends up unwittingly siding with seven dwarves... Or soldiers? Also, Gloriana bites into an apple in the first issue of Shining Knight and receive prophetic proclamations from a magic mirror in Guardian #4. However, as Misty is only the STEPdaughter of Gloriana, perhaps she is a changeling baby? Chop Suzi and Cap 7's daughter, maybe? Or Zatanna's, in some round-about way? Is she related to the other parentless main protagonist, Klarion?
    • Misty was saved by her 'symmetry' - does symmetry fit into the numerology of the narrative - ie is seven (or six) a 'symmetrical' number?

    • N-B-L substituted the "beautiful brain of a 31st-century savant" in her place. Whose brain was that - Braniac 5?

    • There were 13 months of mourning - is that a year? (12 months + secret month of Arachne?)

    • "They made me spin a cobweb dress and the more I spun, the less I remembered... In Castle Revolving... Around and around..." - clear reference to the Tailor's suits, and how he wants to cover the world in black flowers/secrets - forgetfulness? Also the twist/turn/revolution motif again.
    • N-B-L: "I see no beauty in you now. I see Guilt made Flesh." This brings together the themes of corporeality and guilt nicely; it also contrasts with the Mood 7 Mind Destroyer, which was an entirely insubstantial manifestation of guilt.

    • If Gloriana gets the Cauldron / Grail / fountain of youth, she'll live forever. Another common fairy tale motif.


    Klarion #1 - 3

    • "One day they will bury us too" - to rise again? Is Klarion going to die?
    • The Book of Shadows - reference to Zatara's books, perhaps? Certainly, it is a symbol of knowledge and learning that promotes nothing but ignorance and repression - the Blakean imagery of 'iron pages' adds that sort of tone to it. The 'shadows' also ties in with the prevailing idea of secrets and obscurity.
    • Klarion's "true dad" Mordecai is referred to as being a 'rebel', and not unburied. Like father, like son? Also, again with the parent theme.

    • Book of Shadows - preserves Croatoan against "taint... that condemned our fathers here to Limbo Town for their sins." - is this a reference to the Roanoke colonists having 'intimate contact' with the Sheeda? Or the radioactivity of the House of Croatoan leaving a genetic legacy?
    • Is this taint also a representation of collective generational guilt? Or is it linked with the 'septic mire' that turns them into Grundies? If the Limbo Town residents have always changed into Grundies, does that mean that Cyrus Gold was not the first to be so transformed?
    • Ezekiel to Klarion: "You'll be a Witch-Man, like me, soon enough and you'll find out the sad, miraculous truth behind the old stories." - again, the death of story and myth. 'Miraculous' is also a curious choice of word - presumably a link to Mr Miracle?

    • "How long is it now till you're baptized and they take you to Croatoan?"

    • "167 bells." - possible link to the number inscribed on the side of the helicopter that brought Gloriana to the police station in her disguise in SK3 - that was emblazoned with 'N761S'.
    • The tunnels are "rock-holes in solid space." Solidity is a key theme, and the holes in space might be referring to the black hole again?
    • What is the 'stone harvest' traded with the Trolley Men? Is it some sort of radioactive material? It looks like some sort of glowing blue stone.
    • Are the inhabitants of Limbo Town a modern equivalent to the Dwarrows mentioned in Shining Knight?
    • "Now have the Sheeda returned as the book said they would, and all flesh must perish." - they are aware of the Sheeda, and the book dates back to at least the time of their last visit; might it date back all the way to the Harrowing of Camelot? Also, while they may be ignorant of modernity, they have knowledge of the Sheeda that the surface dwellers do not. The flesh motif is repeated here as well.
    • Are the hex signs being hung around the house a reference to the pentagram sign seen with the S.U.M. in #0?
    • "The lawbook says Sheeda won't harm our folk come the Harrowing..." - why not? Is it because they are descended from the Sheeda, (the inhabitants of Limbo Town have "the Sheeda face", after all) or because they are in league with them? Or are they just not important?
    • The Horigal - a fusion of men and their draaga (familiars)? Is this akin to Melmoth saying later that he has his familiar "small [...] and inside"? And if the purpose of the Horigal is to "destroy the enemies of Croatoan", why is it killing the ostensibly innocent inhabitants of Limbo Town? The transformation of the submissionaries into the Horigal occurs in front of the same 1600s map of the world that Silencio is speaking in front of in the meeting with Melmoth later - is there a link between Melmoth and the submissionaries?.
    • The "engine of light and iron" is the President Clinton from Guardian #2.
    • Klarion is still young enough (by contrast to the bitter and cynical Ebeneezer Badde) to be gripped with the sense of fantasy: "Here I am on behemoth's back, in a world that's hollow and filled with a thousand wondrous holes that might lead anywhere!" - he has not yet been betrayed by Badde or Melmoth. Also, many references to holes and the world being hollow - worthless?
    • Is the lantern that Ebeneezer Badde has the same as Justin's one? Was Ebeneezer Badde ever a seven-team member, as he seems to be guilt-stricken as well?
    • The gestalt Leviathan entity is similar to Gwydion, in that it has many different shapes and forms, perhaps?
    • "It's just a world, Klarion... You'll soon get bored." Is this the voice of experience?
    • "If this is what Witch-Men know, I'll stay a boy forever!" - a rejection of knowledge and embracing of the innocence of youth? Or using knowledge to maintain perpetual youth, a la Gloriana using the cauldron?
    • The trading posts of the upper levels near the tunnels are confusing. There is reference made to 'Vanity Fair', to 'Goblin Market' and to 'High Market'. We only see Vanity Fair; could it be that all three places are the same?
    • "Buncha scientists dumped some smart chemicals into the drains and a year later the rats discover how to make fire, then tools..." - mankind playing God again; also how 'real' science can create the fantasy of tool-using intelligent Rat Kings. Also, more transformation, and more buried or hidden or discarded knowledge.
    • Klarion to Badde: "If there is no Witch-God, we can easily make our own Gods out of hopes and dreams and the stories of unsung heroes like you..." - Overt mention of the 'unsung heroes'; also a very Voltairean philosophy. Speaking of Voltaire, is the DCU the 'best of all possible worlds'?
    • Klarion can write, he can make stories - is he like the Tailor (and Morrison)?
    • Is Badde the Hunter of Children? Or is it, by extension, Melmoth? Certainly Leviathan attacks Badde, although he has a moment of moral crisis and tries to help Klarion (much as when Klarion turns back at Teekl's insistence to help the Deviant Ones later).
    • "Would I not know my own kin?" - does this suggest that Badde is kin to Klarion? Perhaps he is Mordecai? Certainly, he is a rebel...

    • The trolley girl member of Leviathan received Guardian's helmet as barter for his using the trolley. Klarion inverts it, and removes its position of pomp and glory, by suggesting that it would make a "fine pot". If the helmet is one of the treasures, or one of the S.U.M.'s gifts to the Soldiers, is that all it's fit for?
    • "All we can trust is chance and change" - links to Zatanna's rules of magic; if all we can trust is change, then nothing will be as it seems.
    • The reference to the Roanoke colonists having had contact with something 'not entirely human' suggests that they may be changelings? Certainly the Horigal might suggest that; however, Gloriana (and presumably the rest of the Sheeda) have blue blood, whereas the submissionaries' blood that stains the 'iron pages' of the Book of Shadows is normal-looking. Blue skin, though.
    • The Deviant Ones drive a Pumpkin Taxi, as discussed in the notes to Guardian.
    • Goldenboy - again a gold reference; again the theme of forced servitude.
    • "Team Red" - links to the 'red' of Justin in SK4, and to the 'Red Place' where the 16+ youths are sent to work.
    • The Hall of Superheroes museum is again full of artifacts presumably from the Golden Age - a 'weather generator', an 'iron hand', and the 'sapper drill from WW2'.
    • "This thing helped win the war for the Allied Forces" - double meaning - presumably this refers not only to WW2, but possibly also the Harrowing?
    • Melmoth refers to himself as 'Mister M' - link to Mister Miracle? Possibly to Mordecai? Certianly, him saying "we are very much alike, you and I" suggests that if he is not Klarion's kin, then they are both perhaps related to the Sheeda - Melmoth by marriage (and possibly by having sold his soul to them?) and Klarion by descent?
    • Melmoth - name derived from Maturin's gothic novel, Melmoth the Wanderer. That book was described, interestingly enough, thusly: "A worse constructed book hardly exists: for it is a perfect tangle of stories within stories." A synopsis of the book is this: "In a satanic bargain, Melmoth exchanges his soul for immortality. The story of his tortured wanderings through the centuries is pieced together by those who he implored to take over his pact with the devil."
    • Are familiars important? Klarion, most obviously, has his 'draaga-cat' Teekl, and Justin has Vanguard. Do either Gwydion or Misty count as such for Zatanna? Or Spoo the rabbit? Badde has Fear-Naught, the Newsboy Army has Millions... Melmoth, by contrast, says that his is 'small' and 'hidden'. Is he lying, and he doesn't have one? Badde says, "Thy familiar will find thee if he has the will, and if not, ye shall both die." Do all the Seven need to be found by their familiars?
    • When Badde says, 'Why bother with Gods and heroes at all?' could this be the point of the series? That the soldiers are some kind of decoy? It seems to fit with the Century Hollow 'grim real world' theme, and makes an interesting counterpoint to the preponderance of old-school pulp stories, of fairy tales and of 'mythology'...
    • "True leaders are chosen, not born." - like the Soldiers themselves? Do the soldiers have a chosen leader? How can they, if they are destined never to meet?
    • Is Klarion able to fortell the time and manner of people's deaths? What other curses can he muster?
    • Goldenboy: "You and me, Billy; remember the dreams we had? But it's lies, Billy, and pink skies and gold." The pink skies are a clear reference to the beloved 'blue rafters' of the outer world for Klarion. Goldenboy is again a very 'fairy tale' sort of name (possible link to Boy Blue?), and once again, the idea of gold and of the transformation of gold is apparent.
    • "The gold in the red place" - presumably, not just whatever is being mined on Mars (a lot of mining going on in these series - digging for hidden treasure/secrets?), but also a link the the sunsets of the age of the Harrowing of Camelot.
    • 'The Erdel Gate' is a reference to the Martian Manhunter's origin.
  
  

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