BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


7 Soldiers

 
  

Page: 1 ... 23456(7)89101112... 39

 
 
FinderWolf
19:27 / 02.03.05
seriously, though, thanks to Mario and Cliffy for the info.
 
 
Mario
22:28 / 02.03.05
Glad I could help

Oh, and I was merely wondering if Gawain (the "silent knight" of the preview) was a revamp of/homage to the original Silent Knight, who, oddly enough, had a pet falcon named Slasher.
 
 
vajramukti
00:31 / 03.03.05
if i remember correctly, the silent knight is meant to an earlier incarnation of hawkman, acording to geoff johns
 
 
Mario
00:53 / 03.03.05
We can't blame Johns for this one. He was made a Hawk avatar way back during the LAST Hawkman run, back in 1995.
 
 
Spaniel
07:51 / 03.03.05
Well, I don't know much about Hawkman or the original Silent Knight, but peeking out from under the world of comics it appears that Gawain means "White Falcon".
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
11:02 / 03.03.05
OK, seeing as we'll be dealing with seven miniseries here I'm going to start a couple of individual threads to discuss the first issues of Shining Knight and The Manhattan Guardian with an eye to doing the same for each of the series. We should keep this for general discussion about how they crossover. OK, fanbiscuits?
 
 
sleazenation
12:11 / 03.03.05
Geeez - The books aren't even out yet and I'm already sick of hearing about 'em...
 
 
FinderWolf
14:28 / 03.03.05
why so negative, sleaze? I know we over-discuss stuff a bit sometimes even before it comes out but that's just cuz we're excited!
 
 
The Falcon
20:47 / 03.03.05
So, we coming back to this thread in 59 weeks?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:00 / 03.03.05
I don't get why there are separate threads for Guardian and Shining Knight, which aren't out until next week, while there seems to be no discussion for the bookend, Seven Soldiers #0, which I bought today.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:03 / 03.03.05
Oh, is this thread the #0 discussion. Sorry.
 
 
matsya
21:53 / 03.03.05
So has there been any indication of how this fucker's going to be collected? Seven separate minis? or one ginormous fucker?

it's friday. the day to say "fucker" a lot. fuckers.

m.
 
 
Cliffy
01:38 / 04.03.05
Fucker.

Hey, that's fun.

You're welcome FinderWolf, you fucker. I hope you have a nice fucking weekend.

--Cliffy, that fucker
 
 
The Natural Way
10:46 / 04.03.05
I've mentioned the tonal shift thing before (Grant's whole obsession with kaliedoscoping realities is so ROCK it hurts), but on rereading JLA Classfied last night, it really hit home. Thing is, in the world of the JLA-list the world is more cartoony - the realm of the Gods where you can do anything and never die - but down on the ground with our doomed 7,things are harder, scarier, more threatening. Reality is less plastic and, generally, if you take a giant spider leg throught the chest, you fucking stay dead.

The more I read this stuff about the 7 being personality-less the more irritated, I'm getting. You fools, you wouldn't give a toss when they all get aced if you weren't already invested. It's called drama The idea was to set up a superteam with a few ready-made, modern archetypes to chew on while Grant set about suggesting future possibilities/relationships etc before scuppering them. You can't expect loads of depth first time out but, jeeze, what kind of Image character starts puking and crying after doing over an enemy? How many superteams express real fear and panic? A lesser writer would have us despise Dynamite Dan, or at least sneer at him - in SS he's genuinely sympathetic... I could go on and on.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:43 / 04.03.05
Yes - definitely something I dug, the way that this was ground-level sooperheroing. The seven's sense of achievementat having nailed the BIG BAD SPIDER being completely flattened by the sudden realisation of the actual threat at hand. From heroes to zeroes in a matter of seconds. Yes it's a cheap trick, but it works. The fact that I gave the slightest toss about these Sheeda-fodder in the first place is testament to good writing.
 
 
Mario
12:19 / 04.03.05
I personally find it amusing (and a tribute to Granada's talent) that I keep reading reviews like "I hope the Whip isn't dead". If you think about it, she's only appeared in one issue. But people are already invested in her.

(And it's not like there are hordes of GA Whip fans beating down the door of DC Editorial )

This is writing, folks. Grab the reader's attention, make them care about the story, and carry them along for the ride. Me, I'm taking notes.
 
 
Spaniel
12:28 / 04.03.05
Brill articulation, Pap.

In Morrison-land Superman's concerns are the concerns of a deity. His conflicts eternal. Grant was sure to root these characters in the mire of humanity and thereby set them apart from the god-like JLA.

A couple of possibilties occur to me:
Will the 7 ultimately transcend their humanity, become JLA-like and the kick the Sheeda's arse? Or will they hang onto their humanity, kick the Sheeda's arse anyway, and make the ultimate sacrifice in the process?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:47 / 04.03.05
I'm sober now but still surprised there are two threads for comics that don't seem to be out until next week, and far fewer posts for this comic than we had for each monthly issue of Seaguy, We3 and JLA Confidential. Maybe it's because there aren't any "plot holes", lol.

I'm surprised because I keep re-testing my theory that this is one of my favourite superhero comics since Zenith phase III, and it still seems to hold.

I'm asking myself why I like this comic so much. I might have to break it down.

1. On a more superficial level, there's faultless, inspiring art:

- elegantly clear enough to allow a swift, smooth rhythm and pace as you just follow the story, the page format as a self-effacing conduit to immersion in the narrative and characters, but also

- extremely imaginative in its layout, the frame divides part of the overall image (twisty roots in Swamp Thing style page 1, interlocking primary colour puzzle page 4, Amerindian patchworks behind the panels in mesa country)

- repaying a second closer visit in its detail, perhaps inevitably reminiscent of Watchmen with all the book spines and classified ads to look at alongside the nostalgic group shots of old hero gangs; it wasn't until today that I really noticed all the cuts and scrapes on the Whip's body (wonder if the Chaykin Black Kiss porn-noir 80s' chic is intentional)

- gorgeously executed when you go back to look at an image rather than gloss over it for the plot -- that fantastic John Ford open mesa of "Big Time Country"

- intriguing, finally, in its use of ICONS, something I don't believe I've ever seen outside The Wasp Factory and Northern Lights, or of course computer software (the 80s icon-driven adventure Shadowfire) -- those recurring simplified, clickable symbols. Dynamite, whip, web. Check out that Iain Banks novel if you haven't seen it, because they really are similar. In Banks, they indicate, at the start of the chapter, the method of death that follows. They also recall the Silver Age (?) device Morrison used in JLA of introducing the team through a little oval with a cheery face: "The JLA! Batman! Martian Manhunter!" In One Million he came closest to this bold iconic design, bringing up a little MSN-style Window for each new character, with their associated symbol. It's fascinating in that the real people we meet only rarely measure up to hero status, the stylised badges those icons imply (they're like Superman's "S", sigils. Magickal mythical symbols.) There's only one point when the Whip feels she's really digging into that mythical groove, getting heavy on the magick: "dreaming piling up of weirdness and the impossible...chasing a legend."

2. For all the talk around Moore that he showed how heroes would operate in the real world, I can't think of any other comic that's come closer to making me feel "This is how it would be if I was a superhero." Because if any of us became heroes, through luck or mad dedication, this is the type we would be -- trained and athletic gimmick-mongers, jammy buggers who inherited a magic item, crazy geeks with an ebay weapon. These are fanboys out of their league. The JLA are almost as far above these guys as they are to normal civilians: Aquaman, even Booster Gold is a namedrop for life. A mention of the JLA makes the Whip feel her own insignificance; their presence in the world is monumental. I liked how "I, Spyder", fucking cool-as-ice wannabe, was reduced to a babbling naked wuss within three pages. Totally out of their depth.

From this perspective, almost the lowest-league in the pantheon, I feel we learn a lot about superheroes from a new angle. Because these characters are almost like us, it's a convincing entry point. There's something very neat about the way "golden age" is shown to be a jargon term within the real world of the DCU, incorporated into the superhero universe where the guidebooks to crimefighters are published by "DC"; even so, characters use it self-consciously, within quotation marks. There's a sense that it's all been done before, that a hero in 2005 knows she's working within cliche, with several generations having been there before her. "A veteran, some newcomers, a tough guy..." she's fully aware she's living the corny old conventions, playing a role that's been done better by previous generations (the amoral vigilante graduating to the cosmic crisis). Golden age heroes are presumably as legendary to these characters -- as remote, as godlike -- as they are to us. Someone like Alan Scott would be as inaccessible to Shelly Gaynor as Clint Eastwood is to me. I've read a lot of revisionist, "dark" superhero comics and I have very rarely got as immediately plausible a sense of what it would be really like to live in a world of metahumans.

3. Grant Morrison really can make you care about characters quickly. He can let you know them in a single line of dialogue, and he can make you love them within a few pages. The conversation is smart and knowing without being just about cleverness for the sake of it -- it's telling that Shelly rehearses her snappy rejoinders and jokes before meeting Greg.

We get a quickly-sketched but I think entirely solid idea of Jacqueline, Galt, Boy Blue and Dan, even though they barely have a few lines each. Jacqueline's diva-act is really quite subtly done considering how easy it would have been to caricature her; she's not just all talk, but swoops in to finish the job more elegantly than the rest of them. Dan seems initially like a useless buffoon, but comes out with the gentlemanly stand-back, miss heroics to impress Jacqueline.

They all seem to be trying hard to live up to the role, spouting cheesy hero lines (MY WHOLE BODY IS NOW A LIVING REACTOR / that should stop him cold) -- but they only truly believe in the act for a moment, when the strangeness of what they're doing overtakes them, draws them in. It's as though the members of the Big Brother house, because that's what their homestead most feels like, were sent out with new-found powers to destroy a giant spider. When it's over, they're breathless, wounded and even ashamed that they were too scared and useless to do anything.

4. SPOILERS!
Grant Morrison makes us care about characters very quickly, and then kills them.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:08 / 04.03.05
JH3 really channels Moebius' Blueberry beautifully here.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:52 / 04.03.05
Re. that Phillip Pullman echo, the Sheeda are very close indeed to the Gallivespians.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:57 / 04.03.05
I hadn't read this

It's a bit like one of those celebrity reality shows where a gang of has-beens get their 15 minutes of fame and a chance to prove what they can do.

when I wrote this

It's as though the members of the Big Brother house, because that's what their homestead most feels like, were sent out with new-found powers to destroy a giant spider

but it's neat how clearly Morrison's intention came through.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
22:43 / 05.03.05
fuck me, that Shining Knight preview is good. gimme more. now.

so 2 7S installments next week?
 
 
Mario
02:43 / 06.03.05
No, just Shining Knight, followed by Guardian in 2 weeks. It looks like there'll be a 7S comic _every_ two weeks.
 
 
superdonkey
21:38 / 07.03.05
That's such good news.. Gives me a reason to go down to the comic shop.
 
 
■
18:49 / 09.03.05
the Sheeda are very close indeed to the Gallivespians.

[Slaps head] of course! that was eally bugging me. If you'll pardon the pun. Now, all I have to do is try to read this thread and work out whether any of you are talking about the comic I have actually read or not. (Issue 0)
It was hard enough to finish it going "Whaaaa?" without all those bits about things that aren't even available yet getting me even more confused. At least when we were doing NXM ahead of time I at least knew who the characters being referenced were. Never mind, I'll get it eventually.
 
 
Billuccho!
22:24 / 09.03.05
Just purchased it today. Love all the commentary you've got here. It was difficult to avoid clicking on this thread for so long...

Anyhoo, I don't feel the analysis of each character's era or genre is unfounded. Admittedly, it's a little too obvious, but it's a fun undertaking. I especially love how each character is drawn differently; Greg is an old 30's/40's 'scratchy' Joe Kubert drawing; Gimmix is an old 50's pin-up; Dan looks like some average joe, but when he powers up he's a Kirby drawing; etc. The art in this issue is so bloody fantastic that it astounds me. I haven't read Promethea, so this is the first bit of JH Williams' art I've seen since a Batman annual oh-so-long ago. Now I'll *have* to get Desolation Jones.

I don't really want to repeat what was already said here, but yes, I absolutely adored this comic (and Shining Knight #1 was damn fun too, but that's a whole 'nother thread).
 
 
quinine92001
21:15 / 10.03.05
Just a thought today whilst shearing DNA...Are the Ultramarines downloaded into the Qwewq reality to protect the infant universe (our own?)that then becomes the hyperkindtime storytelling universe of 7 soldiers and each Ultramarine has a chance to redeem theirselves as a new character ie one of the new 7 soldiers(Shining Knight=Squire, Zatanna=The Guy who rewrites reality,Warmaker 1= Frankenstien, Cyril=The Guardian,Jack-o-Lantern=MR Miracle etc? Maybe not enough sleep
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:15 / 10.03.05
I just read on the Wiki that Neh-buh-loh is the infant universe... so how the Ultramarines were downloaded into him is beyond me just now.
 
 
Mario
00:23 / 11.03.05
My theory:

He "grew up" at some point in the future, went "bad" (possibly due to the Sheeda), and came back in time to some point in the distant past. The implication seems to be that the Ultramarines either failed, or are still fighting.
 
 
rabideyemovement
02:42 / 11.03.05
Reading the new Wizard, it looks like the release dates for these books are on no particular schedule. 4 issues of each title spread out over a year, with the next (and last?) installment of 7 Soldiers coming next April. I hadn't known the stories would take that long. I assumed it would be wrapped up by this fall. No complaints, I'll still pick up each and every issue. Just surprised, that's all.
 
 
The Falcon
09:56 / 11.03.05
I just read on the Wiki that Neh-buh-loh is the infant universe

So he said, in JLA:C #3. Remember, and Superman called him a 'time-travelling bully'?
 
 
Benny the Ball
10:15 / 11.03.05
The 7 soldiers comics themselves were always sold as bookends to the bigger story, each 4 part playing as it's own mini but with some interplay. I guess the spacing (which is detailed on the last inside page of Seven Soldiers 0) is such so that those events happening which effect other titles don't spoil the overall flow of the series as a mxi-series and not a series of mini-series'.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:27 / 13.03.05
Okay, time to get a little meta. The line "none of the seven returned from Castle Revolving" is a reference to Arthurian myth. Apparently, Castle Revolving, or - more properly - the revolving castle, is the home of the fairy folk.

Just noticed this - it isn't "none of the seven" - it's "except seven, none returned from Castle Revolving":

Tri lloneit prytwen
yd aetham ni idi.

nam seith
ny dyrreith
o gaer sidi


That is - three loads of Prydwen (Arthur's ship) went into that place. But for seven, none returned from Gaer Sidi (the castle of the Sid/the fairies/the Sidhe/the Sheeda).

It's from the Preiddu Annwn. Just twigged this - more on the Shining Knight thread.
 
 
■
14:40 / 13.03.05
Except the seven? Possibly in each book one person (the hero) will go through the castle/mesa/whatever.
On thing I've noticed is that none of the heroes so far seem to have any innate powers (flight/laser beam eyes, what have you). They're all in the science hero/normal human transformed by knowledge/training/technology. I'm not sure if that's significant. Even Zatanna would sort-of fit this model. She's just someone who learned magic. Hrmm. May need to think more about this.
 
 
Aertho
14:52 / 13.03.05
As opposed the the genetically empowered variety?

Superheroing is a learned character trait. Yoa Ming doesn't rescue cats from trees because he's super-tall. Everything here is learning. Someone decides to take up the charge and marches into the gauntlet. Then shit happens.
 
  

Page: 1 ... 23456(7)89101112... 39

 
  
Add Your Reply