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New / Mighty Avengers

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Quimper

17:09 / 03.11.05

Hopefully, Marvel is picking up on the same kind of Internet misdirection methods that the producers of Lost have exercised. Yeah, right. It's probably Echo.

Spaniel

10:24 / 04.11.05

im going with shang chi! and for the record good luck powers are still retarded!

Are you 8?

I seem to remember Bendis getting very over excited about Mack's run on Daredevil, far more excited than the Marvel hype machine would have demanded of him, so perhaps there's something to this Echo rumour.

For the record, what I read of Mack's run (one ish) fuelled my muse for thirty-five years. It was so, so, so beautiful and poignant and important, and poetic, and literary.... oh, I could go on and on... just wonderful, WONDERFUL...

I hope it's not Echo.

FinderWolf

13:41 / 04.11.05

I was in a comic store last night and saw the Avengers book in question, figured what the hell, read it...this published book, distributed to bookstores nationwide, says in black and white that Ronin is Echo.

Weird. And kinda disappointing. How do her legs look like a man's legs then?

As for her being deaf, she's become an expert at reading lips, I guess... although in a combat situation in a superhero team, she might not be looking directly at everyone who yells to her.

FinderWolf

13:42 / 04.11.05

Boboss, I get the impression that Troy was joking with the repetition of his good luck powers line. But that's just me.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

14:03 / 04.11.05

Well, Echo does fit all the qualifications (unlike Shang Chi). That would also explain why chunks of the Silver Samurai returns scene have no dialogue when shown from Ronin's perspective when we know they were talking from the last issue.

Echo makes more sense than any other guess I've heard.

Dammit, I was hoping for Snake Eyes

rabideyemovement

14:58 / 04.11.05

What qualifications does Shang-Chi not meet?
If it really is Echo, the art will have done the fans a disservice by drawing her so masculine looking. I think this is pure misdirection. Remember the DC Encyclopedia that said Dr. Light had killed Sue Dibny, weeks before the killer was revealed to be Jean Loring?

Mario

15:07 / 04.11.05

Well, what criteria DOES Shang-Chi meet?

1) He's a martial artist.

That's it. He's not a killer, and doesn't have the same training DD does. As someone who worked closely with British Intelligence, his background is likely well-documented, so even if Cap was forgetting the times they've fought together, he wouldn't have doubts.

And (while this is a quibble at best) why would a Chinese martial artist choose a Japanese codename?

Mr Tricks

15:38 / 04.11.05

Can someone explain how ECHO has a connection with the HAND and similar training to DD?

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

16:18 / 04.11.05

The Hand.Yak thing is the only iffy part. As far as DD's training... that's her schtick, innit? She's copied his moves to the letter...

I guess it's possible she picked up some Yak/Hand knowledge during or after her visionquest period?

She's got the other bits, though... the training, the ties to Fisk, the hair, the doubt cap would have about her killing people...

rabideyemovement

21:01 / 04.11.05

What about the upsoming movie property? Echo has no film in the works, I'm certain. Shang-Chi does. Shang-Chi uses nunchaku as does Ronin. He's fought Silver Samurai and the Viper before, in Japan, no less. He's also worked for SHIELD. He knows the Kingpin (from Japan). He has long black hair. Not to mention that a Chinese ninja makes a bit more sense than a Native American ninja.

My money stays on Shang-Chi.

Mario

23:38 / 04.11.05

Bendis backpedaled from the movie thing almost immediately. He claims it was the reporter's misunderstanding.

That being said, most people are betting Elektra, or Matt Murdock in a disguise. Iron Fist was in the running too, but he's basically in the same boat as Shang Chi.

rabideyemovement

02:24 / 05.11.05

Gah, at least let it be someone Asian behind the mask. I'd love it to be Shang-Chi, but I'd settle for Stone (who I had forgotten, does have a relationship with the Hand). Just not DD or Elektra, pleeeease...

This Sunday

06:56 / 05.11.05

Torn between wanting this stuff to make sense and my desire to see well-written or at least decently-written Indians in comics. Argh!
Considering Bendis' insulting and almost racist comments at the back of 'Jinx' regarding making her white 'so she could smile' or somesuch, I don't know....

If 'The Pulse' is ending, where's the former 'Alias' star going to have her kid, then? In her boyfriend's book? Seems kind of a 'how the mighty have fallen' since many of us were following the kid from her book firstly.

FinderWolf

13:54 / 05.11.05

Yeah, it's weird...they just announced that Bendis is leaving THE PULSE (basically the continuation of ALIAS) and didn't say if the title would continue without him with a new writer... but he's doing a New Avengers Annual or Special or something with the wedding of Luke and Jessica. (well, he said in the interview 'they get married -- or do they?' and promised that the Super-Adaptoid would show up to mess up the wedding and cause a fight)

I forgot Echo is American Indian. I really don't want it to be her, would much prefer Shang-Chi, but I doubt they printed those hardcover guidebooks with fake info to psyche out fans.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

14:19 / 05.11.05

If 'The Pulse' is ending, where's the former 'Alias' star going to have her kid, then? In her boyfriend's book?

Given that Bendis' penultimate issue of The Pulse ends with Jessica's water breaking, I'd imagine that she's going to have it next issue.

As far as Ronin goes, Echo isn't a horrible choice... but I don't understand why the necessity of the crossdressing.

I still wish it was snake eyes

Mario

23:02 / 05.11.05

Isn't Echo basically just Taskmaster in drag?

Mister Six, whom all the girls

00:07 / 06.11.05

Just throwing this out there but the arch villain Avi Arad was quoted as describing the Avengers movie as being a team headed by Hawkeye... I wonder how closely they want the comics to resemble the movie properties.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:10 / 06.11.05

the art will have done the fans a disservice by drawing her so masculine looking

Or maybe "the fans" could learn something about gender and appearance and - oh, who am I kidding?

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:10 / 06.11.05

Way-ull... I don't think the fans will have been done a disservice, but if Echo looks like a standard-issue Marvel superheroine, the fans can with some justice protest that Ronin has been drawn with a superhero body type, and that this it is slightly insane to assume that Echo had decided to conceal her identity to the extent of wearing a padded bodysuit that would significantly affect her ability to fight. Mind you, if Ronin is a) Echo and b) transitioning, I will give the love to Bendis.

This Sunday

21:04 / 06.11.05

Flashing back to the Elektra theories, though... in the Echo-possibitities defense, (a) Marvel heroines have, many of them, been drawn in Barbie-Doll Mode and in bulkier iterations making sense of their strength by reason of reasonable musculature. 'Elektra Lives Again' versus pretty much every other version of Elektra. Milligan handled this beautifully with a veil of 'it's all for show, all dancing and theatrics and what you expect.' We all know they ought to have bulges and heft, but they're still seen through a lens of Greg Hornness. Charo/Cher/Richard Gere Syndrome, but with muscles and scars. In bikinis and tops whose keyholes represent metaphors of absence, loneliness, and desperation. Or was that only for DC superheroines?

FinderWolf

00:56 / 09.11.05

Just gotta say it's fun to see the Silver Samurai again...makes me nostalgiac for his appearance as drawn by Paul Smith in the Wolvie goes to Japan X-Men story arc by Claremont back in the day...

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

22:28 / 10.11.05

Ronin's entry in that Avengers coffee table book is weird. It not only says that Echo is Ronin, but that she is currently Daredevil's girlfriend.

FinderWolf

16:58 / 29.11.05

new issue out tomorrow where we finally see who Ronin is (probably Echo...)...

rabideyemovement

02:47 / 30.11.05

Unless you wanna find out tonight! Huh? Huh?
You know you want to see who it is! I really hate that I was wrong about it. Shang-Chi would have made an awesome Avenger...

SPOILER: don't look unless you really can't wait!
go here---
http://www.marvelarchiv.de/bilder/ronin.jpg

merde!

FinderWolf

14:29 / 30.11.05

oh, I already know. I'm disappointed, I wanted S-C.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

17:04 / 30.11.05

Incredibly big letdown... makes absolutely no sense while at the same time crapping on anything that made the character's story interesting to begin with.

rabideyemovement

19:13 / 30.11.05

I fell very let down, but oh well, it was written in a decent manner. I liked the way Ronin couldn't respond to Iron Man and Spider-Man. And we'll get to see Shang-Chi next month in Black Panther, so that makes me a bit less annoyed.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:53 / 01.12.05

I'm writing a letter to Wizard saying how let down and crapped on I am.

Right this minute.

(Jesus, you people.)

Mister Six, whom all the girls

11:48 / 01.12.05

Better yet, put in on your blog!

You're hilarious, Petey!

FinderWolf

12:22 / 01.12.05

The issue was enjoyable, but I don't really care about Echo. The visual of her face with the hand painted on it is just silly to me...does she paint it on every day when she wakes up, with face paint? Is it permanently on her face? (I read the arc in which David Mack introduced her and I don't remember anything saying it was permanently on her face) If it's face paint, why paint her face when she's wearing a mask/helmet thingy?

The only positive about Echo from a general standpoint is now the team has another female member, just so it's not all men and Spider-Woman. Though it seems Marvel & Bendis are getting set to make Ms. Marvel (back to her old codename, no longer "Wardbird") a member of the New Avengerse soon...

I did like the bit where Spidey banters about guessing who Ronin is. Fun stuff.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

12:46 / 01.12.05

Finder, are you reading Young Avengers? She (Ms. Marvel) turned up in the new issue. She's a great visual, might be the John Romita costume design (it is his, right?), but I dig her... even her drinking.

But what bugs me is the lost oppportunity to, if yer gonna make Ronin a she, have a strong female character because,
a) she pads her costume... ofcourse... why not hamper yourself? She could add a wicker Indian headdress to add to the trouble
b) her 'power' is to imitate the abilities of others... so she has no innate ability.

Might be nit-picking, but hey, it's comics and my mouth is moving so I guess I'm nit-picking.

Spaniel

13:30 / 01.12.05

Any of you big geeks know what Bendis has in store for Alpha Flight? I can't believe he's going to kill 'em - I mean, the internet would rip in two.

FinderWolf

14:05 / 01.12.05

yeah, I was wondering about what's going to happen with Alpha Flight... I used to love that team, from their Byrne X-Men days and when he wrote & drew the book...but that was before Byrne became a hack, in my opinion. Since Byrne, I haven't really cared about what happens to the team since no one seems to have done anything good with them.

FinderWolf

14:06 / 01.12.05

the solicits say "Alpha Flight's last battle" and many fans are wondering if that means death...but it could simply mean they disband for a while after the story.

Spaniel

14:23 / 01.12.05

I've always had a real soft spot for Alpha Flight. Someone on the Newsrama thread suggested that they become Avengers Canada. I'd like to think there's something in that.

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