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New / Mighty Avengers

 
  

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FinderWolf
00:18 / 05.08.07
Aside from the famous/infamous "WiR" motivation, what does Ultron Version [Whatever] gain from killing the Sentry's wife? Is it just to distract the Avengers and get them emotionally distraught, thereby throwing them off their game??
 
 
ThePirateKing
22:03 / 05.08.07
That looked to me to be part of 'Plan B' so maybe he's hoping that the dear old Sentry will go bonkers.
 
 
This Sunday
22:55 / 05.08.07
I think that's about right. Whereas, lately, the metaphor for the Sentry has been 'bullet', now he's a re-arming, flying grenade. Unless there's more to it. Sentry's been oddly handled since his mainstreamy introduction

Presumably we'll be able to work it all out in a year or three, when in future Marvel Comics Events the Skrull invaders are revealed to be Space Phantoms working for SHIELD.
 
 
ThePirateKing
09:54 / 06.08.07
Nice to see the flashback to Cap and my fav Avengers team in the distant distant past in preview of this week's New Avengers #33.

Over the weekend I read Mighty Avengers # 4 and New Avengers #32. Could not have been more different. Mighty was predictable and almost purely plot based (and there wasn't even much plot movement) no real sense of context for such a BIG storyline of the whole world being screwed. New #32 on the other hand was an excellent dialogue and character heavy piece about six people who don't trust each other having to sit in a plane together. Mighty #4 read like it was going nowhere because at the end of the story Ultron will of course lose and Tony S will be alive. New #32 was like a chapter in a good (but long) book.

Is that skrully of me?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:42 / 06.08.07
The difference between the two titles is weird - on the one hand it's clearly a deliberate thing that have a very different tone and feel. But the strange thing is that, whereas the New Avengers team feels like a bunch of people you really want to root for, reading the Mighty Avengers leaves one with a slightly dirty feeling. The book, rather than just the team, feels slick and corporate and politically dodgy. I think I went on about this before, but it persists, and I don't know whether I'm impressed with Bendis for doing it like this or not.

And yes, the Sentry has just been bobbins since he returned - almost every story he's in just features him needing to be cajoled into taking action, and sometimes he doesn't even do that (see: Silent War). What is the point of him, really?
 
 
ThePirateKing
13:24 / 06.08.07
After I posted above, I decided that the difference (well, one of them) was that even though they're the same guy, the writer of Mighty #4 doesn't really like his characters, while the writer of New #32 etc clearly loves his guys.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
15:19 / 06.08.07
I think there's some Ares love going on in Mighty Avengers -- really, he's the only character that interests me over there. The Ares vs 200 Iron Men bit was verging on Nextwave-esque in its carnage and zanyness.

Of course, Mighty is the title for the hardcore Avengers fan, is it not? Or rather, isn't that the idea?
 
 
ThePirateKing
15:40 / 06.08.07
Depends how you look at it, I guess.

"We're Avengers cos Captain America said we were."
 
 
Janean Patience
17:15 / 06.08.07
The writer of Mighty #4 doesn't really like his characters, while the writer of New #32 etc clearly loves his guys.

I'm pretty sure Bendis's crush on Ms Marvel is at least the equal of his crush on Jessica Drew. I'd be willing to bet that, when they finally raid his house and discover the nude pictures of 70s Marvel women he paid famous artists to draw for him, for his private collection and personal use, there's a roughly equal amount of each. And, probably, a large number of pictures of them together, in the team-up Bendis demanded. Special appearance by Luke Cage.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
17:58 / 06.08.07
%That's a charming stereotype to end your post on there JP.%
 
 
Janean Patience
18:10 / 06.08.07
Ah. Should have realised that and didn't. Apologies. Luke does seem to be the 70s guy Bendis has the biggest jones for, which is hopefully why I thought of him...
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
21:20 / 06.08.07
"We're Avengers cos Captain America said we were."

Yeah, all the fanboys on the boards complain that New doesn't have any Avengers on the team. Nor are they fighting Ultron and Doom and Kang every month. Thus: Mighty.
 
 
ThePirateKing
21:31 / 06.08.07
They've got Hawkeye!

How much more Avengers can you get than Hawkeye!!??
 
 
The Falcon
21:34 / 06.08.07
They do have one trad Avenger now in Clint Barton; the problem for oldschool Avengers fans appears to be that the Mighty team contain prime movers in undermining superheroes as they've understood them for, well, forever. Never mind that the Avengers as used to be were generally, iirc, pretty beholden to the US government anyway.
 
 
This Sunday
21:55 / 06.08.07
Things are happening in New though, and there's a luvvit/fuck-yeah! vibe even when the series descends half-deliberately into parody. Luke Cage and Spider-Man's perpetual flirting is beautiful and could sustain a mini under it's own power. The only real conversation in Mighty was Tony and Carol, and that might not have even been totally Tony, given the circumstances. The art's not doing a thing for me, either.

If Black Widow moved over to New, I'd probably just Byrne-steal Mighty on the odd chance I'd like it as much as I started to, with the first issue.
 
 
The Falcon
22:16 / 06.08.07
I have been Byrnestealing Mighty and Bendis' recent decisions to run down Refrigerator Alley with it kinda made me reconsider the trade; it was like a decision of principle - 'I'll buy the antireg non-sellouts' - initially, but that's been kind of eroded by The Order and Thunderbolts, really. Apparently characters will switch sides, though; I think Spider-Woman's already on her way in out of the cold, although too late for Cho to draw (something I'd assumed as a fairly primary motive for the switch-up) and hmmm... I dunno who'd trade from Mighty; Natasha had an encounter with Bucky which featured a continuity implant affair had with him during his Winter Soldier days and she really doesn't seem to do anything in Mighty, so she's pretty feasible.
 
 
ThePirateKing
23:07 / 06.08.07
Yeah, I didn't quite get his "I thought you'd be an old woman by now" line. Is the Black Widow now acknowledged as ageless just like Nick Fury then?
 
 
ghadis
23:27 / 06.08.07
One of my main gripes against the Mighty is Bendis' attempt to reintroduce thought bubbles as a narrative device into the comic. Is it just me or is this really just shit?
 
 
This Sunday
23:27 / 06.08.07
Widow's been a bit slow-aging/perpetually-youthful for awhile now. She was a kid back in WW2, apparently had early training with Wolverine, and they've not erased her Soviet connections at all, whereas most characters in a similar position would have become strictly Russian or something.

I did quite like her 'I'm a level ten' moment an issue or two ago. She may be another in a long line of women who led the Avengers so badly Captain America had to come back and take the reins (most annoying Avengers trope ever?), but on her own, she does pretty good. She's just usually showing up for cheesecake shots or to beat up Spider-Man and steal his wrist-tool idea. Played as a badass spy who's been in the game a long time and can still whup ninety-percent of everybody else... and yet keeps trying to make a pretense of a settled-down home life, she's really good. And she almost never points it out, mostly because the story is crafted away from having her be really good at what she does, but in a meta-sense it's a great personality angle.

Have I complained in this thread about what happened with the other Widow? I really enjoyed the first few Marvel Knights' Widow minis. I liked the new Widow and that posing them as foils actually generated meta self-critiques in both women that got things moving. Not so big on the last couple Widow minis, and what Bendis has done with Yelena, in that - in both cases - there's nothing being said about the character(s), nothing interestingly related to the character's conceits, but simply appear to be plug-in-the-protagonist narratives to a large degree.
 
 
This Sunday
23:50 / 06.08.07
I like the thought bubbles, in some ways. I like the rhythm, and that they appear to be almost panthetical asides not allowed to be vocalized. That Bendis is apparently using them for characters because he seems not to actually be able to get into their heads and make us understand by context or behaviour what they're thinking? That's a bit shit.
 
 
FinderWolf
01:42 / 07.08.07
>> they appear to be almost panthetical asides not allowed to be vocalized.

Yep, that's how I'm taking 'em and clearly how they're meant. They're the uncensored thoughts, usually salacious, self-doubting or comedy-oriented, that are too blunt/honest to actually be voiced. I dig 'em - if you're going to re-introduce thought bubbles, this is a pretty clever way to give them a new and very specific purpose.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
04:55 / 07.08.07
I'm still waiting for the full reveal to count Lindy as a WiR, yet. Greg Pak is awfully cagey about whether WWH takes place before or after this current New and Mighty arcs because he says to do so may spoil the Avengers arcs over in a Newsarama interview.

Moreover, my personal theory has always been that the Sentry really did kill Lindy back when he locked himself in the Raft, anyway. And that was before the possibility of Skrullmageddon.

There's mention upthread of Black Widow switching teams... I'm wondering if Spider-Woman may be the first official switch. Bendis has promised that several characters would eventually switch sides.

And yes, Luke/Peter warms the cockles of my heart. I'm actually starting to like the Clint/Logan banter, too. The whole Clint as Ronin thing works for me in general, because it follows up on Clint's treatment in his shortlived solo book... where the core of his abilities was more of a Bullseye-esque skill with weapons.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:02 / 07.08.07
The Spider-Woman switching sides thing is mentioned above before the possibility of Black Widow doing the same, IMS. My understanding is that Frank Cho is only taking time out from Mighty Avengers rather than being off it for good, but what will happen when. I am interested to see how long the scenario of two antagonistic teams can and will be sustained - they've already fought side by side in World War Hulk, but the pardon Stark offered in that title was conditional on registration - which is the same deal the New Avengers turned down after Civil War.

(Which means, incidentally, that if Captain America said Luke's team were the Avengers - and implicitly should not register - then he didn't make his bloody mind up before he got capped, seeing as the whole point of the end of the CW mini was that he surrendered and encouraged others to do the same. Perhaps Cage is just stubborn. Perhaps Bendis secretly thinks Mark Millar is an idiot. Perhaps both.)
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
21:53 / 07.08.07
Ah, I missed the Spider-Woman musings.

And I always figured that the "because Captain America said we were" referred to was his original founding of the "New Avengers" and not a post-CW message. I think Luke and Co are just stubborn.
 
 
Professor Silly
18:22 / 09.08.07
I really enjoyed the latest issue of NEW--Spidey's gut reaction of "fine, I'll quit, assholes" was handled just right...the flashback (as mentioned above) made me smile, and Luke falling into utter paranoia at the end all adds up to an I-can't-wait-for-the-next-issue mindset.

Backtracking to the last issue of MIGHTY I just want to say one thing: Ares has a plan. I think we're about to see just what separates him from Thor in the next issue or two, which is good, because so far he hasn't been much of a help to the team (such as cleaving Tony's backup plan in half...silly god).
 
 
Janean Patience
07:47 / 10.08.07
I love Bendis's character moments, like the stuff between Luke and Peter here or the mid-battle banter of two issues ago, but the series is moving at a glacial pace. Every issue seems to promise that by next issue all the pieces will be in place and we'll really get going. But in every new issue that appears there's character stuff, maybe one intriguing plot development, some perfunctory action and a few sly continuity references, and then it's over and I feel no nearer to whatever the series and the team are meant to be moving toward.
 
 
Twig the Wonder Kid
10:07 / 10.08.07
New Avengers #33 - does someone want to explain how Echo can be startled by a knock at the door?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
10:43 / 10.08.07
Skrull.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:50 / 10.08.07
It's painfully, terribly slow, isn't it?

Seeing as the end of this is apparently inked in for a year or so's time, I just wonder why I'm not in Tibet at the moment, studying the mystic arts, with the stated intent of coming back from the East and turning the so-called 'hardest-working man in comics' into a toad.
 
 
tavella
23:28 / 10.08.07
I'm still... what's the *point* of New Avengers? We know Luke's speculations are going to be proved wrong, they've said Tony is going to be the hero of the Skrull storyline, so basically the NA are just there to flail around.
 
 
FinderWolf
06:07 / 11.08.07
this was fun, but the newest issue assumes that we know something about The Hood - or at least, that's how it read to me. I thought this was a bit presumptuous for a character that admittedly most readers don't know anything about, since the original BKV mini was almost unnoticed by the general comics populace, despite it's pretty decent Kyle Holtz-ripping-off Kelly Jones-art.
 
 
FinderWolf
06:10 / 11.08.07
oh, and Jessica saying 'rocking YOUR baby' to Luke confirms to me that she's a Skrull. The real Jessica would have said (even in anger) 'OUR baby.'
 
 
ThePirateKing
09:24 / 11.08.07
Actually I was going to ask about The Hood. Can anyone give a quick catch up?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
11:30 / 11.08.07
His real name is Parker Robbins. He was a small-time crook in NYC until stumbling upon a demon while breaking into a warehouse. He (possibly) killed said demon and stole it's stuff- the titular Hood (which can turn invisible) and a pair of boots which allow him to walk on air (as opposed to fly). He was introduced in a six-issue miniseries by Brian K Vaughan before Runaways/Y/Ex-Machina made his name.
More recently he appeared in the miniseries Beyond!, where he , Hank Pym, Medusa, Venom, Kraven the Hunter (new version), Flamebird, Gravity and, most importantly, Deathlok were snatched and made to fight to the death. At the end Deathlok seemed to have become fully human, and was still human in the recent Fantastic Four issues which dealt with the fallout from Beyond!, so the Deathlok cyborg in NA#33 isn't him.
The Hood is a little more interesting as a character than Wilson Fisk and the like. For a start he's young- probably no older than Spiderman, far too young to be the new Kingpin of Crime. Spidey is probably the closest comparison in terms of personality- think of him as somebody who never learned that with great power comes something-something. There's also the question of whether he's fully in control- he's been getting more viscous since he started wearing the hood and now has glowing red eyes, as sure a sign of evil as doing your hair and man-make-up like Pete Wentz from Fallout Boy and becoming a great jazz pianist.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:53 / 11.08.07
>> so the Deathlok cyborg in NA#33 isn't him.

Unless Marvel has done its recent practice of ignoring continuity in favor of an old-school approach (the Deathlok in NA is the old-school Deathlok that most comics readers remember, and very few people read BEYOND!, it seems -- although the same argument [that very few people read it] can't really apply to Dwayne MacDuffie's FF run, I would think)...
 
  

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