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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:12 / 02.03.06

They are, indeed, a good way to get started. Just not a good place to end up. A basic sigil working is a useful enough thing to have in one's toolkit, but they are a componant of that kit and not the whole utility belt.

(This is one of my stock rants, I know. See also: You really should learn some sort of scrying method; It's called groundng, people, hello-o; and the ever popular Learn to spell Ipsisisismuss before you claim to be one, you moron.)

00:52 / 02.03.06

ok, I'll bite (and thus expose my novice-ness): what the heck is a Ipsisisismuss?

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

01:34 / 02.03.06

You really should learn some sort of scrying method

I never had any luck with scrying, I have to admit. Then again I used to think sigils were really stupid before I found a method that worked for me about two months ago. Maybe I should give the scry another try...too bad all the cool props I got are across the damn country.

Who knows, maybe someday I'll become so open-minded that I can stand gematria (shudder).

01:44 / 02.03.06

But gematria is fun! In a way, it's the brute-force method of cracking your brain.

06:45 / 02.03.06

One of my takes on sigils is to see them for what they are - a product of Austin Spare's immense creativity. The thing I get from looking at Spare's work is the encouragement to try my own things, not to mindless replicate his work, with all the good stuff taken out

Ipissismus is the "high point" in Crowley's system of grades of attainment. In typical mystical paradox fashion, it's the kind of "high point which is not a high point" after the Magi has attained everything and gone into mystical retirement, dissolving back into the bliss of Nuit, I believe. This is going from the top of my head, so may be wrong in some details. The full system is outlined in one of the appendicies to his "Magick in Theory & Practice".

Perhaps someone should start a thread on "How to Skry". This is my favourite book on the subject.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

07:25 / 02.03.06

Well, I use scry in a very general sense, to include things like Tarot cards ect.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

20:22 / 07.03.06

How wide spread is the beleif that you should not let other people touch your (for lack of better word) implements?

I see this with a lot of people who have Tarot cards mainly.

Is the idea to keep something attuned to you and you alone?

20:40 / 07.03.06

The same belief is quite common in martial arts. I hate when people touch my sword without asking first. It has to do with the energy that ends up being infused in such personal objects.

trouser the trouserian

04:25 / 08.03.06

I think there's a wider issue here related to what objects we generally consider to be private and/or public to varying degrees, and how that changes across social contexts & situations. Clothes are particularly interesting in this respect - private, personal, and subject to a complex & subtle set of mores about who can and can't touch them and where it is and isn't appropriate. Take underpants for example. I happily hand mine over to strangers to be washed - but if a friend popped round and casually asked to browse through my underpants drawer (in the same manner as they might ask to look at my bookshelves or audio cds) I think I'd be faintly surprised.

Do underpants have energy? Mine do tend to acquire a 'personality' over time.

10:03 / 08.03.06

I think that any magical tools you've invested that much into are pretty robust, and can tolerate stranger's interference (e.g. my Tarot deck, Trouser the Trouserian's underpants..)

Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:12 / 08.03.06

I wouldn't want just anybody picking up my cards and messing with them because, well, MINE. Don't like people touching my toys without asking. However, I let punters handle my tarot when I read for them. I get them to give it a good shuffle, do the card reversals and so forth. I like the cards to get the scent of the person, if possible. It's not a deal-breaker if I can't get them to do this (some people have a horror of the cards and won't touch them), but it seems to simplify the process somehow; tuning in to the person just becomes easier.

The only problem is when I get a sticky punter, someone with such gluey fingers that they get all over the cards and their cards keep turning up in other people's readings. Very annoying. I can be pretty sticky at times if there's something going on that I need to deal with.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

13:46 / 08.03.06

Well, I use scry in a very general sense, to include things like Tarot cards ect.

Ah, my dumb. I have to admit I have better luck with tarot/iching/random-page-in-the-bible than I do with actually trying to *see* stuff in the crystal bowl full of water or the curling smoke or whatever. And I can't do omens for shit.

Still I often (with tarot and, now that I think about it, horoscopes) feel like I get more of a what-I-want-to-see result than a what-I-need-to-see, wonder why that is? Maybe I need to clear out more first or possibly have someone else do the reading with their deck instead of doing myself with mine?

14:26 / 08.03.06

Always better to have other people do readings - or indeed sorcery - for you, rather than trying to do it yourself, in my opinion. Hard to get the distance.

Unconditional Love

18:36 / 08.03.06

Can anybody tell me about the arch demons that are located to the extreme left and right of the tree of life, in the malformed creation called edom (kabbalah question)(Not the historical kingdom of edom), representing overt extremes of force and form.

Id also be intrested in learning about the 7 purgatory states that exsist in the world of yetzirah, formation. ( and their associations with insanity)

Anyone?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:30 / 08.03.06

I can tell you that whyever you think you need to know this stuff, you really don't.

Unconditional Love

14:43 / 09.03.06

Now if you had said, oh yeah i know all about that its boring really, not much going on there then well...., but now i am just all the more determined to find out.

I think from what i am gathering, edom was a semetic kingdom featuring baal and asherah in its religous practice, perhaps the kabbalists moved these dieties into the form of arch demons. But i am not totally sure yet.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:58 / 09.03.06

I came across a guy on the internet once who was tracing demons back to the deities they originally derived from. Called himself a reconstructionist Satanist. Seemed like an interesting approach, but not my field so I sort of lost interest.

I would definately file that kind of practice under Heavy Gear, and personally would avoid it if I was experiencing significant emotional problems. Just saying.

Unconditional Love

15:24 / 09.03.06

Your probably right, the trail has so far led me to samael, azazel, lilith etc etc. while its intresting to see how they have formed, its probably best left alone for the moment, although i do like the fact that they are actually a part of the tree of life and not seperate from it, it does suggest that 'evil' is a function of god, that severity in its most extreme form allowable in creation is a part of gods will. but i am going to leave it alone and look at diana luciferi and the feminine light bringers they seem a bit calmer, less tarnished by a demonic paint brush, and may very well change my conception of lucifer entirely.(which i think will be healthy)

The qliphoth came up again as well, not somewhere i really need to take a holiday to at the moment.

15:35 / 09.03.06

Not wanting to pry into your business, but can I just second Mr Carnival’s suggestion with as much emphasis as possible.

Thought you said you were going to give the magic lark a miss for a bit anyway?

It really strikes me that, if you’re looking at the Tree of Life as a model for understanding God, then you might be better placed not even thinking about this sort of business until you have got to grips magically with each of the Sephiroth. I wouldn’t begin to even dip the toenail of your smallest toe in Qlippothic or Arch-Demonic waters until you were firmly established in Tiphareth, having attained initiation in all the proceeding Sephira, and doing so as an adept in every sense of the word with the Knowledge and Conversation of your Holy Guardian Angel walking with you. Otherwise, you won’t have the requisite tools for the job and will likely be eaten up and shat out for trying to run before you can crawl.

10:58 / 10.03.06

Although I have no intention of dwelling in this any deeper than this thread, the past few posts got me curious. As stupid as it may be, are all modern "demons" former gods? And I'm not talking about only judeo-christian "pantheons" here, but also hindu, xinto, zoroastric, etc, etc????

trouser the trouserian

11:05 / 10.03.06

No.

11:08 / 10.03.06

Wow, there's a concise answer. Thanks, trouserian.

Unconditional Love

09:10 / 11.03.06

At the moment i am just doing assuming spirit form work, working mainly with lucifer.

I am studying her/his story and starting to get a very different picture to that which is commonly associated with satan and the devil.

I am woking with an enlightening venutian intelligence that is full of warmth, intelligence and understanding, a light bearer called lucifer full of love and veneration.

So far i am becoming more calm and peaceful than i have been in along time.

As to the tree of life, well for the mo i am just reading about it, halevi mainly i think his descriptions are clearer than many western occult explanations, and more full in there approach.
I am not sure about the idea of being initiated into the sephirah, not sure about that at all, i dont get that kind of impression from what i am reading, in fact i get the idea that you get chosen, and no matter what work you do, unless you are chosen it dont mean squat, in relation to yhvh. I can see why people are drawn to the occult model of cabala in these times. But like i said i am not engaging with qabalah for the mo, just research.

Lucifer on the otherhand is fast becoming a living presence.

Is their a lucifer christos ' The light bearing annointed one ' , i think in some forms of gnosticism i may of read about it in the past. The venutian christ.

Unconditional Love

12:52 / 12.03.06

magdelene annoints christos, he is annointed through her as she perfumes his feet and head.

Unconditional Love

12:58 / 12.03.06

Mostly i keep coming across bollocks like this>

The rolling landscapes of Venus are a perfect setting for staging near death experience delusions, or pulling peoples spirits out of their bodies and giving them a false vision. Many of those who have had near death experiences have said how they saw Jesus, were given a past life review and sent back to earth. The whole facade of past life reviews is from already documented alien technology. It's part of their library of capabilities and illusions. They then send the victimized back to earth to proclaim a New Age doctrine or one of their other deceptions. New Agers claim to have seen Jesus in their prayer circles and yet they have, Sananda, not the Jesus of the Bible. Also the prophecies given from the Charismatics and Pentecostals feature Sananda and illusions from the Serpents of Wisdom. Yahushuah doesn't condone speaking in tongues, therefore the God of that entire movement is not Him, but Satan. It is false religious demons and the Ascended Master serpents that work with Satan to keep that entire charade going and the people who follow them in deception and guile.

Venus is the habitation of fallen angels. These feature the humanoid, tall, giant ones we refer to as the Annunaki. Some allege that the Pleidian humanoids also inhabit Venus alongside the Venusians. These are the ones Satan is going to use to fill the cast of his heavenly host when he descends to earth.

Aliens can look angelic when they take on human form (if not already humanoid) and turn on the lights around them to produce an aura that mimics angelic beings. But it is fake, it's not real, but it will be good enough to fool most of those on earth at that time. "It has to be real, look how magnificent it is!!" they will proclaim. Can you hear it now? I can.

Look! He has holes in his hands it has to be the Jesus of Nazareth who died on the cross!" Yes, he will fool many as he comes complete with nail holes in his hands.

>Paranoid shit brained mixer heads spewing......

Unconditional Love

17:58 / 12.03.06

And what does christos have to do with goats, if anything?

18:41 / 12.03.06

are all modern "demons" former gods?

I like this one. I understand the demonic forces as idolatrous, in that they can take our gaze/attention away from Her=reality=the Divine Loving power.

E.g., the demon of fashion catches people by getting them obsessed over time-bound looks so they have diminished energy with which to live the Divine power of Love/Grace.

Or, the Institution of your choice becomes demonic when it perpetrates crimes against our shared/finite ecological context or against oppressed humans and as such, has forgotten its original vocation to serve Divine purpose.

So in a way - perhaps the reverse of the way your question puts it - the modern demons are trying to be Gods and it's that idolatrous aspiration that makes them demonic?

This is a model where demons (angels too) are expressions of collective spirituality. It comes from Christian & Hebrew scripture e.g. Book of Daniel's angels, and a more recent current would be Walter Wink's work such as "Engaging the Powers" ("Powers that be" is the lite read-in-one-bath-or-train-journey version). U.S. Amazon, U.K. Amazon

Unconditional Love

18:59 / 12.03.06

You could also say there is nothing that is not created by god, including fashion, demons, other gods, cultural difference etc etc. its a bit of a catch all way of looking at things and the like, but it saves one from having demons.

Otherwise it can get a bit them and us spiritual warfare like. The good guys need bad guys to look good, its a good cop bad cop routine. a metaphysical apply the heat to create the resulting mental schizm.

22:22 / 12.03.06

I like this one. I understand the demonic forces as idolatrous, in that they can take our gaze/attention away from Her=reality=the Divine Loving power.

So in a way - perhaps the reverse of the way your question puts it - the modern demons are trying to be Gods and it's that idolatrous aspiration that makes them demonic?

Oh yeah. A while back, I saw an interview on TV of a medium who claimed Cocaine has become a actual demon, due to the way it "enslaves" cocaine-addicts and makes them "worship" hir, so I can totally buy that hypothesis.

So, if that's correct, there are two types of "demons": fallen gods, and rising powers. Interesting. Need think that over.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

06:48 / 13.03.06

Well, some "demons" have always been bad... personifications of scary natural phenomena, earthquakes and stuff...

Unconditional Love

08:14 / 13.03.06

Did ishtar anoint tammuz?

Unconditional Love

08:34 / 13.03.06

Okay found my answer.

The irony for those who believe that "Lucifer" refers to Satan is that the same title ('morning star' or 'light-bearer') is used to refer to Jesus, in 2 Peter 1:19, where the Greek text has exactly the same term: 'phos-phoros' 'light-bearer.' This is also the term used for Jesus in Revelation 22:16.

14:14 / 13.03.06

So ... there are two types of "demons": fallen gods, and rising powers.

Don't fallen angels count then? How about demonised nature god/desses? Qlippothic entities? The Goetia? There might be more than two types is all I'm saying.

15:36 / 13.03.06

Don't normally venture into the temple much, hello!
Could anyone tell me about any spiritual significance* for swans, pike or eels? Thought someone here might know and 'twould be cool if you could help me out.

*or any metaphorical significance at all or indeed point me to a place where I could better research my wondering.

16:47 / 13.03.06

Don't fallen angels count then? How about demonised nature god/desses? Qlippothic entities? The Goetia? There might be more than two types is all I'm saying.

Oh, yeah, hundreds. It was more of a taxonomic agregation, that one. Like "reptiles", or "arthropodae". Demons' "super-families", you can call it. "Fallen angels" and "demonised nature god/desse(s)" are included in the "fallen gods" category, but have niches of their own within it.

zoological much?

And Quantum, I'm pretty sure there's a native Brazilian legend that includes eels. I'll have to look it up, though. More on that later

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