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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

 
  

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Gypsy Lantern
15:19 / 14.02.06
Why not? Just asking?

Short version: A lot of what constitutes "chaos magic" has seeped so far into the culture of occultism, especially in places like barbelith, that the prefix "chaos" is pretty meaningless. It tends to emphasise the "image" of chaos magic rather than the substance. An image that is so steeped in the pre-millenial zeitgeist of the mid-to-late 90s that it feels really dated and inappropriate in the very different cultural landscape of 2006.

Also, there are a lot of suspect, unexamined dogmas within chaos magic (the notion of continual paradigm shifting, reductionist approaches to sorcery, a utilitarian approach to deity, to name a few) that have received a significant amount of criticism, both on barbelith and elsewhere. I like to locate chaos magic in the past, as a body of writing and techniques to be studied, internalised and built upon through successive work, rather than a "cool" cutting edge system of magic to follow like a recipe. It is a starting point to move off from, not a destination. Most of the more interesting posters here tend to be very familiar with the main tenets of chaos magic, yet speak from their own personal experience of practicing magic. Most of the more tedious, brain-achingly annoying posters here tend to reel off chaos magic platitude after chaos magic platitude without much reference to their own experience or ideas beyond what has been read, absorbed and regurgitated.

Long version: Read the last three years of barbelith.
 
 
grant
19:10 / 14.02.06
I recently joined an academic magick maillist, and they're dropping references to "metamagick" as the new boss.
 
 
illmatic
19:28 / 14.02.06
metamagick

*hurl*

What dat den?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:25 / 14.02.06
Well it certainly looks impressive.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:13 / 14.02.06
Ah, here we go: Metamagick at Sourceryforge (Google cache here coz Sourceryforge is down for repairs ATM).

Basically, chaos magic without the chaos, a further abstraction.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
06:05 / 15.02.06
It all sounds rather tedious - yet another layer of buzzwords for the intellectually-challenged to dribble over...
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
06:47 / 15.02.06
I dunno. If any of the links worked, I'd have checked 'em out. As it is I've had too much wine to go googling Leary or Lilly's ideas on meta-programing.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:17 / 15.02.06
I don't really understand how "Meta-magic" isn't just chaos magic rebranded without the word "chaos" in it. I don't really understand how a "metadigm" is different from a "paradigm", apart from the different spelling and an implicit awareness that every paradigm is itself a paradigm (which is hardly a revelation...). I dunno, it just comes across like selfconscious sloganeering from a bunch of people eager to be the next big thing in magic. I can't really see anything too exciting or inspirational going on behind the buzz words. More than willing to be proved wrong, but not seeing much substance beyond the noises being made.
 
 
illmatic
08:22 / 15.02.06
It just comes across like selfconscious sloganeering from a bunch of people eager to be the next big thing

I don't think it even comes across that well. At least with most next big things, there's a germ of an original idea, not a rehash of a rehash of a rehash. I read things like that and think, Christ, all that intellectual effort (well, all 5 minutes worth) wanking on - why not, y'know actually DO SOMETHING!! The internet has a lot to answer for.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:26 / 15.02.06
Look it's got 'meta' in the name so it must be Improved. Like 'Aloe vera' in washing-up liquid.
 
 
Dead Megatron
11:00 / 15.02.06
I thought Wizards of the Coast had copyrigh on the "metamagic" word. Just like "feat", "rogue", and "dragonlance"
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:07 / 15.02.06
Be interesting to see the results generated by those bold pioneers working with this radical new approach. I expect they'll be pretty astonishing, what with the stripping away of all that old baggage to reveal the sleek shiny core of What Magic Really Is.

*Entirely fails to hold breath*
 
 
rising and revolving
17:58 / 15.02.06
Mordant, check this out, in regards to your alphabeticals.

Struck a chord with me, anyhoo.
 
 
Digital Hermes
20:24 / 15.02.06
The whole metamagic thing, just from reading that main page, seems like someone read Jung or Joseph Campbell, found something resonant, and tried to imitate/trump it with their 'meta' phraseology.

Maybe 'meta' is too tacky a trump-phrase. Maybe if they had called it ur-magic, then it'd have the air of ancient primal truth that they seem to reaching for!
 
 
c0nstant
02:38 / 22.02.06
i need to know whether i'm using the correct technique for the i ching.

i have been using the coins method, assigning heads as 3 and tails as 2. if the sum of the coins is even it is a broken line, if odd a whole line. if a six or a nine is encountered it is a changing line.

is this broadly correct or have i misinterpreted something entirely?
 
 
illmatic
08:40 / 22.02.06
I think you're doing fine. I don't use that method myself but I don't see anything wrong with it.

See here for an explanation. He states the head/tails attribution doesn't matter. Just pick one and stick with it.
 
 
illmatic
09:17 / 22.02.06
Interpretation is a different matter of course - if your answers confuse you DONT just divine again. Take notes, and wait a few hours/days to see if you get any insight. I often find I'm blinded by what I want to see, when the Yi is reflecting a situation very clearly.
 
 
Seth
09:59 / 22.02.06
Agreed. It's not that by divining again you'll get a more palatable answer: you'll get a second reading which is internally consistent with the first, and you'll add more difficult to digest material to your first casting. Or you might get a slapped wrist from the Oracle itself, depending on what you need. Pay attention to the first answer and work with it over the span of a few days if necessary.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:20 / 22.02.06
Okay, i am developing an intrest in angeology, it seems an accessible point for me to look at christian/gnostic based mysteries. From what ive explored of enochian i dont think that kind of very evolved ceremonial work suits me and at the other end nor does dorreen virtue and that ilk. I have some of the classical grimoires angel associations in mind, but have also read about in the past angelic gnostic systems, some sethian based etc

I am wondering if anybody has any direct contact with angels outside of an enochian or new age context, and particularly within a gnostic context.

Angels Tarot By Robert M. Place & Rosemary Guiley I have been thinking of trying these cards as a starting point, because from initial reviews by others they seem to be an indepth attempt to engage with the medieval ideas around christianity and angels.
more card examples

Also the idea of the quasi sefirah raz comes to mind from an old thread on the qliphoth.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
22:43 / 23.02.06
Will I be able to cross the Abyss if I die with dirty underwear?
 
 
Hawthorn
21:00 / 28.02.06
Mordant, if you haven't had enough suggestions for the depression, this is something I have always wanted to try: just getting a group of friends together and have a "healing-you" ritual. Not so sure how this would work but positive statements, sending of "good intentions", "healing energy", etc might be a place to start and it might do good to be the center of attention.

And I second whoever said you are the sorcerer so many of us want to be. You're cool, Mordant, I'm a fan!
 
 
Hawthorn
21:11 / 28.02.06
apologies for the above: uploading was slow and I thought it wasn't working.

What's a sigil?
 
 
electric monk
11:30 / 01.03.06
Um...see here.
 
 
Hawthorn
11:58 / 01.03.06
thanks
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:10 / 01.03.06
Are they yours? is it your dirt? and who is wearing them or using them as a hat, flag?

I know the abyss is empty, but should it just be reduced to a brain and underwear washing machine?

What brand? mens or womens or androgyne?
 
 
Hawthorn
17:11 / 01.03.06
Read it

So a sigil is something that represents your wish/spell, altered so that it doesn't make sense, then "charged" by being forgotten-about?

What happens after you forget, do you do anything else to it? What about this "Free-Belief" jazz?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:31 / 01.03.06
(*blushes* Aww, thanks, Jade!)

The uses of sigils are many and varied, and if you dig around the Temple a bit you should find plenty of material to be going on with. You might start here.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:42 / 01.03.06
After reading the links above, I have a question about sigils: Once you're done "crafting" and "charging" them, what do you do with the actual physical medium in which it was made (like the pice of paper)? Destroy them? Stach them somewhere out of sight? Or within sight? Or it does not matter?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:21 / 01.03.06
I have: burned them, buried them, chucked them in the bin, flushed them down the loo, thrown them in the river, drunk the ashes mixed with wine, left them in the pocket of a coat in a thrift store, eaten them (because I carved the finished sigil onto a chocolate biscuit)... all kinds of stuff, really. You're supposed to forget the sigil, so looking at it again before the spell has come to fruition is a Bad Idea.

Anyway, sigils are boring.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:25 / 01.03.06
hm, chocolate biscuit magick. You may be on to something there...
 
 
illmatic
19:42 / 01.03.06
Anyway, sigils are boring

Yes they are.
 
 
Hawthorn
20:41 / 01.03.06
Depression:
Try The Antidepression Survival Handbook if you can find it (by Robert J Hedaya, M.D., Crown Publishing, NY, ISBN 0-609-60465-1)
Even if you aren't taking antidepressants, which I am not but I've been dipping into it in the library now and again.
 
 
Dead Megatron
21:01 / 01.03.06
Sigils may be boring, but they do seem to be a great gateway drug
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:53 / 01.03.06
Yeah, but they're boring. Really. Boring, sigils are. No, sigils are, like, really really boring. I cannot stress this enough, because I have seen more than a few communities where everyone has decided that sigils are the acme of modern magic and every single discussion is about sigils and how you charge sigils and where you spraypainted your most recent sigil and that time you stuck a sigil on a car/toilet door/jazz mag/own face or charged it by bungee jumping or moshing or whist getting your chaos star tattoo done and what no-one seems to get is that they have been talking about sigils for like 3 years and maybe, just maybe, it's time to try something else.

I'm just sayin'.
 
 
Dead Megatron
23:54 / 01.03.06
Very funny post, MC. Rephasing my last post in a less ironic tone, sigils may be a good way to get started. "Magick for begginers" and such. More experienced initiates should put them behind, eventually
 
  

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