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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

 
  

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Unconditional Love
00:43 / 16.08.07
Okay this is a stupid question, has anybody tried using the variety of new age myths as magickal work, for example is anybody actively communicating with atlantean or lemurian unicorns. If they have how does this work, say in contrast to a traditional structure.

I am one for dismissing this stuff out of hand, and want to see if there is actually any value to it and why it seems so many are drawn to it. The newage seems to cross into the realms of popular fiction film comics and tv series, much like some areas of chaos magic. So has anybody engaged with 4th ray flying dolphins as successful magickal work and if so how does this work.

Since the new age and chaos magic kind of grew up together, is there a relationship their?
 
 
EmberLeo
07:51 / 16.08.07
That, and sigils generally don't potentially come with a 12-pack of Aesir and no health warning.

*falls out of her chair* Ow heh ow heh ow heh

Okay, so I did have the right general idea (minus the general snark... well, mostly...).

On the rare occasions I create a sigil I don't use Roman characters.

That's kind of what I was wondering, actually, because what I do with Bindrunes would so easily translate as an overall method to other symbol sets - especially alchemical. (I'm no alchemist. I'm speaking aesthetically, not conceptually.)

--Ember--
 
 
M_a_r_k
13:26 / 16.08.07
Q. What was the name of that relatively recent magician who (I think) practiced enochian magic in the same vein as Joh Dee. He used to post about his angelic/demonic conversations on the internet under a pseudonym. He is now deceased.

It's totally gone out of my head!

Thanks
 
 
Katherine
13:30 / 16.08.07
Benjamin Rowe? Excuse me if I am wrong but he was the only person I could think of.
 
 
Ticker
13:59 / 16.08.07
I found a fantastic site on tantric buddhism and here's an article (I think it is a transcript of an actual talk given).

Bringing Buddhism Down to Earth:Session Seven: Tantric Practice

there are also some great transcript/articles on the teacher/student relationship. Poke around on the site.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
17:57 / 16.08.07
Actually, the boogeyman thread has reminded me of something...

I've had lucid dreams as far back as I can remember. Like, to the age of about 3 or earlier. I thought they were totally normal for the longest time, and when I found out they're not I tried to experiment with them in various ways.

Anyway, eventually it was almost like I reached a new level of dreaming weirdness. For years now I haven't had the usual moment of "lucidity" where you realize it's a dream and can then do stuff. These days, I can just do stuff. Like, I'm so used to the "it's a dream" feeling that I recognize it instinctively, without needing to become conscious, and begin altering everything. Sometimes there's a bit of a story layer around it, like in the dream I decide I'm a sorcerer or whatever, but often there's nothing. I just realize I can change stuff and I do, but I maintain the overall dream level of consciousness. Does that make sense?

Anyone else experienced this or heard about it? It's pretty handy, because becoming overly conscious tends to wake me up out of a lucid dream, and with this that never happens.
 
 
c0nstant
23:25 / 16.08.07
a question in the same vein, what techniques have people here used to successfully achieve a lucid state? Lucid dreaming being one of the things that I've always wanted to be able to do (I have SO many cool ideas that I want to try out!) but have never been able to achieve.

Generally I dream quite vividly and have since I started to keep a dream diary my recall has gone through the roof, but I still can't achieve lucidity (at least, not in the sense that I understand it to mean).
 
 
c0nstant
23:37 / 16.08.07
guh! Must learn to search first ask questions later. heh.
 
 
M_a_r_k
00:34 / 17.08.07
Thanks so much archabyss, that's the name I was searching for :-)
 
 
Unconditional Love
19:44 / 18.08.07
Can any body describe effects while working with the planet saturn and its associations, cause at the moment being gutted and tearful seems to be in order as well as feeling distinctly like death warmed up.

I am trying to free various parts of my past so i can be helped in moving on, its working, but the ride is a rough one, i wonder if this is usual for saturnian spirits. if the associations are anything to go by it is.

One reference described it as the joy of self undoing, perhaps holding on is the problem, letting go seems to be a better option.

Another suggested working with mercury at the same time so the communication became more healing orientated, any thoughts?
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
20:07 / 18.08.07
I think Saturn is a sphere of judgement, and rather good for working out *if* you should act, as opposed to *how* - justice is harsh I guess, and it seems like there would be a great deal of nastyness dealt in such a realm, so maybe that's what you feel so torn apart Wolfangel888.

As far as lucid dreaming goes, I found that the following two things worked well for me: -

1) Before going to sleep, repeat a mantra commanding yourself to dream - the purpose is to switch your mind onto the fact that dreaming is important, and that you control it. Dreams are going to happen anyway, however if you can fool yourself into thinking you control this fact, it's a good thing.

2) Spend time when you wake up trying to remember your dreams - the purpose of this is again to switch your mind to the fact that dreaming is important. Working out why you might have dreamed of something is also good for this, not so much what the dream means (which is good to work out anyway) but also why certain images were used - I find that they tend to be things that I've noticed or thought about within the past week.

This had the effect of making me come to realise when I was dreaming and because I wanted to control them, gave me the ability to do so. These days I generally don't attempt to control my dreams, unless I'm moving towards a nightmare (which is rare) or else I'm flying and I encounter powerlines (which is annoying, but says something about self imposed limits) as I find that it's best to let my subconscious do its thing, as control is for the waking world. I don't watch much tv though, so that may be why I'm so content with watching my dreams unfold, in order to learn from them and apply their lessons.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:21 / 18.08.07
Wolfangel: I know little or nothing about the effects of working with Saturn in terms of personal experience, but what theory I have covered suggests that it might be more appropriate for you to seek a more compassionate set of energies. I don't associate Saturn or matters Saturnine with healing or compassion, things you clearly need at this time.

The other thing--mate, you have this pattern of picking up different systems and putting them down, every couple of months it seems like, in between very brief spells of quitting altogether. You seem terribly fragmented in your practice, and I can't see that as a good thing. You seem to be snatching desperately at a variety of possible paths, as if you're afraid you'll miss something by taking a less scattered approach, or as if you're afraid of becoming trapped. I really don't think it's the answer. I'd be much happier if I saw you commit to some regular, simple practice--meditation, maybe, or an hour's energy healing a day--over the longer term.

Take care, whatever you decide to do.
 
 
Unconditional Love
03:23 / 19.08.07
I was looking very hard at African traditions of the new world, but i decided i just could not honour them properly, kiumbanda thou had lots of references to the grimoire verum which is a loose reworking of the Legemeton, so that spiked something in me from the enochian material i had been reading before and another idea i was exploring sometime back of planetary magic.

Now i have been doing a regular practice of incense and candle work really simple, with hoodoo influence and some christian influence. I started looking at literature regarding candle rituals to make the practice more meaningful and then started picking up angel, planet and candle associations which is currently where i am at, it kind of makes sense as a sequence of associations, i am planning on a daily candle and incense devotion based on days of the week and working with various requests with planetary spirits.

Starting to look at how each classical planet would cleanse and purify my spirit. Along the way i am learning bits of astrology as well and starting to look at astronomy to be more practical with the timing of my devotions and rituals.

So far i have worked with Raphael, Sachiel and Cassiel with regards to purification looking at different areas of my life. Raphael in how i communicate to others and trying to introduce a healing aspect into my expression, Sachiel in my social relationships and the politics involved, trying to smooth out interactions and Cassiel with regards to old habits and decaying processes from the past, Cassiel was the roughest really cold, but it has probably been the most liberating so far in the work, thou most tearful.

I think putting them in the context of the days would be more appropriate to healing, then a different quality is absorbed and related too each day without one planetary influence becoming too dominant, also it allows me to look at the sephirah beneath the abyss in a constructive way, but also to engage with Binah or Babalon. (I am still not decided whether Saturn is Binah or Daath i see bits of both in it)

I think i can get a diversity from western hermeticism and its hodge podge of influences that allows me to feel less trapped, it includes pretty much elements of alot of things i have worked with, all of my study in various areas pays off as does the practice, for example something i find hard to drop from my practice since having discovered it 6 or 7 years ago is ancestor worship, its where i build up from, thou i dont see it much in modern hermeticism its included in my practice because it has become of central importance to me, the past has much to teach and it became highly relevant while dealing with Saturn.

Tarot and other divination is another mainstay of my practice.

I know it may look very scattered and fragmented but in some strange way it comes together to make sense for the moments its meant to, i would like to think that one day consistency may appear and modern hermeticism may well be that answer, having absorbed Buddhist teachings on impermanence and absorbed dramatic experiences of it in action i never can tell. All i can really say is at the moment this is where i find myself relating to my practice.

I will keep Saturn for Saturdays after completing this working.When followed by the Sun i have a feeling it will balance out the experiences more fruitfully.
 
 
zedoktar
05:47 / 20.08.07
I just stumbled over the term "spiral dance" in some old crowley stuff (Liber Pyramidos) and was curious as to what this is. I've never heard the term before, aside from the title of a book I've made a point of avoiding.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:13 / 20.08.07
The only other use of the term I'm aware of is to refer to a dance, which is, uh, a spiral. You hold hands and dance round in a circle a la Ring-a-Ring-a-Roses, then someone breaks the circle and takes off along a spiral course, trailing the line of dancers behind hir.
 
 
shockoftheother
11:50 / 20.08.07
I believe one executes Crowley's spiral dance by tracing a spiral clockwise from the centre of the circle while spinning anticlockwise. Liber Reguli specifies a similar, though slightly different, dance. Some see a parallel with Sufi techniques of whirling meditation. Dancing is in fact surprisingly common in a lot of Crowley's work (I believe at one point he recommends setting the LVX signs in a waltz), a fact ignored by many of the po-faced miserabilists who practise Thelemic occultism. As someone who once took a bunch of Thelemites to a hip hop club, I speak secure in the knowledge that this is because magicians ain't got no rhythm.

(I take no responsibility for the serious & sudden decline in dignity that is the inevitable consequence of trying to do any of Crowley's dances.)

Oh, and as far as Saturn is concerned, it might be wise to look at Ficino and other figures from the Florentine occult renaissance, who treat Saturn as having both a supernal and planetary aspect, which are quite distinct from each other. Not many modern occultists have done much with this, except Denning & Phillips, who address it quite well in their Planetary Magick book. Alternatively, y'know, start with the Sun, and possibly by going out & sitting in it for a while.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:07 / 20.08.07
I'm envisioning a limited edition hardback compendium of the dance steps of Aleister Crowley, with photos, diagrams, and possibly a floormat with numbered steps to practice on.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:11 / 20.08.07
If you turned it into a videogame you'd have a surefire winner.
 
 
Ticker
12:31 / 20.08.07
(I take no responsibility for the serious & sudden decline in dignity that is the inevitable consequence of trying to do any of Crowley's dances.)

But surely with all the spiffy headgear* and wardrobe the tradition has it would be a fabulous floorshow?




*Suddenly the Pharoh outfit at the OTO open ritual makes a lot more sense.
 
 
zedoktar
15:15 / 20.08.07
lol, Dance Dance Conjuration! I'd play that. But then I'm a fiend for dance and DDR games anyways. Knowing that Crowley was big into dance just made him about 50 times cooler in my eyes.
I go to big raves just to rock like a sufi. Its the shortest path to perfect Zen and total loss of self I know.
 
 
EmberLeo
00:30 / 21.08.07
At least one model of spiral dance I've participated in was a spiral that wound in, and then turned back on itself so that the outward spiral faced the inward spiral. Each person was to kiss the person they were facing on their way by (or, because it was a public ritual with random strangers involved, nod and smile).

This was for a Beltaine ritual.

The other reference I have direct experience of is of a dance that spirals in and back out again with the people singing

"We are a spiral
within a spiral
with no beginning
and never ending."

Which was pretty much for symbolic group solidarity purposes.

--Ember--
 
 
c0nstant
03:34 / 21.08.07
I've been planning on getting a tattoo for a few years now and I finally have a fairly solid idea of what I want. I am, however, aware of using a symbol that has meaning attached to it and so I ask the mighty 'lith does this look familiar to anyone?

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

I know it has certain similarities with the Egyptian winged eye (at least in terms of content) but are there any more definate meanings to it that I'm unaware of?

incidently, the scrappiness is due to that being the only copy I have to hand, the finished version looks much nicer!
 
 
Katherine
11:35 / 21.08.07
Wax talismens, what is the best material to use for a mould? I was thinking of using airdrying clay but is this going to be robust enough I wonder.
 
 
grant
16:41 / 21.08.07
It (the tattoo design) looks a little bit like a logo I've seen on camping equipment or backpacks, I think - a sun setting behind mountains.

I don't think that's a big deal.
 
 
EmberLeo
18:13 / 21.08.07
According to my book on Funery symbols, the All Seeing Eye in it's various familiar forms is usually a Masonic symbol that refers to God's knowledge. (This is particularly significant, because the Masons tend to be Gnostics, yes?)

That looks like a variation on the All Seeing Eye, but I don't think it's exactly like anything I've seen.

--Ember--
 
 
c0nstant
00:34 / 22.08.07
Cheers for the input guys!

Ember, you pretty much confirmed what I thought, the Eye as a symbol of knowledge. Good to know it doesn't have an Darque Majiques associations.

Grant: no, I don't see that as a huge problem either! Saying that maybe it would come in useful if I ever needed to bind a mountain spirit...
 
 
Unconditional Love
01:49 / 22.08.07
Thanks for the book reference, i carried on working with Saturn for a while and areas of self judgment, but also looked at the idea of judge not lest ye shall be judged and had Saturn take a look into those that cast judgment upon me to my detriment. Interestingly my life became very quiet for a period of time, noisy again since i started working with Mars yesterday, but things should continue with mercury today, employed as healing communication. Also working with a white candle inscribed with the 7 classical planet glyphs before invoking other deities i am working with along with colour visualisation and prayer, which proved to be a good way to charge up before working.

Unfortunately the days have been dreary, but the night sky has so many stars in it i cannot see one Sun being enough, compared to the light of the stars. Monotheism by day, polytheism by night. At twilight the one whom is many and at dawn the many whom are one.
 
 
shockoftheother
05:26 / 22.08.07
Wolfangel -- it looks to me, & I don't know you or anyone else here that well yet, like your practice is pretty frantic and pretty joyless at the moment. Seriously, take a week off, find something you enjoy, something that'll physically exhaust you and do it. See other people and do stuff that makes you happy - that's more or less what I meant by saying 'go sit in the sun'.

I don't want you to think I'm calling you out or anything, as I'm sure you're dedicated to what you're doing, but the Icarus complex is really horribly prevalent in my social circle at the moment, and that looks kind of similar to what you're doing. Intensifying or complicating your practice isn't the same as deepening it, and hovering perpetually at breaking point might afford moments of glamour but it's unsustainable and really quite toxic.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:32 / 22.08.07
Okay, if anyone has any techniques for pain managament--I need them, all of them, RIGHT NOW.
 
 
Saturn's nod
10:02 / 22.08.07
I think it depends what the pain is coming from - sometimes find it helps to pay detailed attention to the pain - try to use synaesthesia to get colours, shapes and so on from it. Sometimes that means the pain changes, if I pay sufficient attention in that way - it's like I'm allowing space for the message to get through. Sometimes stuff manifests as pain because I am trying to push it away from my attention, and it becomes less painful if I give it that full attention.

Also helps me: hot baths; hot water bottle/heat packs; make sure you are not very hungry or thirsty or cold; coffee; relaxing any muscles that are tense; try gentle and continuous movement like a long steady walk if it's possible/not harmful. Proper nutrition makes a difference to how I experience pain: if I am well nourished (minerals & protein seem to be the keys for me) I don't feel hurt by pains that same way as if I am living on junk food and sugar.
 
 
Katherine
10:13 / 22.08.07
First question... What's the pain from?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:17 / 22.08.07
It's kind of personal. Women's Problems.
 
 
EmberLeo
10:49 / 22.08.07
Okay, this is, I admit, several hours later, but hey, maybe you'll need it again, or somebody else will.

The first energy work my Mom taught me was for menstrual cramps. It's stupidly easy, but it actually works really well.

First of all, start with the mundane. I usually do this while curled up with some sort of heat source - hot pad, or in a hot bath, whatever. Take a pill if you can. The usual dose is plenty in this case. You can do the visualization as though you had taken a pill even if you don't, and it still works, but I find my cramps stay away longer if I go ahead and take a pill.

Now, help it along. Picture it's path through your digestive system. For me, pain is glowing red, and pills are bright blue. I consider natural healing energy to be a green glow. So, the blue glow from your stomach and whatever green glow you'd care to pull up from earth or whatever else works for you make their way through your body to concentrate on the pain, surrounding it, changing it's color, dimming it, until it goes way.

Medicine usually takes about 20 minutes to travel through your system and have a muted effect. What I've found is that this method does 3 things for me. 1: It helps me relax which contributes directly to healing. 2: It increases the effectiveness of the pain pills both in speed and in intensity. 3: It often helps me fall asleep, which passes the time until the pills take effect, and serves to relax me even further, which is especially useful for any kind of cramp or tension-related pain.

This same method works pretty well on my TMJ headaches too, but that's harder, because pain in my head makes it much harder for me to focus.

Other pain-maintenance things that help with specifically feminine problems: Empty your bladder - anything making your pelvic muscles twitch right now could be contributing. Sexual activity - anything that makes your pelvic muscles reflexively relax can be helpful. My boyfriend used to make a point of kissing me when I was having PMS issues, and I was always rather startled at how well that worked. Of course, he was dedicated to Apollo, so for all I know he was doing more than just kissing me...

--Ember--
 
 
rosie x
14:06 / 22.08.07
It's kind of personal. Women's Problems.

Aw, poor thing, I hope you are feeling a little better now. I don't know how much help it'll be at the moment, but if you have difficulties on a regular basis then you might want to try a tincture of Cramp Bark. Its a powerful uterine sedative which is often used in treating menstrual cramps and other problems. I have a good friend who suffers from endometriosis that swears by it. It's also good for pain caused by fibroids and a host of other problems. It's not terribly hard to find in Europe: a well-stocked vitamin / supplement section in a good natural foods store might have some.

In the meantime, I'd use heat...maybe a hot bath followed by hot water bottle. Also conventional pain killers / muscle relaxers if you've got any. You could also do a bit of Reiki self-treatment: it helps one relax and won't interfere with any herbs or meds.

Hope you feel better soon! xxx
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:08 / 22.08.07
I see what your saying, so i do not take it the wrong way, but for me at the moment the breakthroughs are well needed, the release is working very well, it seems to be a necessary release of sadness and sorrow that is accompanying certain workings, appropriate to what is being worked with.

I do not believe it is going to spiral badly, because each tearful or sobbing experience is followed by a joyful release of something held onto and attached too for far too long. It seems to be a necessity to continue practicing to push through prior limitations. Something that will be done.

Sometimes i think this can look unpromising because their has been a focus of late on a spiritual practice being a totally joyful affair, but that is not always the case, suffering and sorrow have to be examined and dealt with so the obstacles they present can be moved past, the mind and heart no longer so firmly fixed to past tragedy.

It is a part of healing, the harder the mind grabs to the misery of the past the more work that needs to be done to create release from sorrowful bondage.

More akin to the crossing of boundaries, pain and tears that need to be understood for the nearest truth of their context.
 
  

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