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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

 
  

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Papess
15:36 / 18.06.07
"On the 9th, the knowledge will be born" - written in hebrew? Reading too much into the side of a mountain?
 
 
Ticker
15:44 / 18.06.07
I mean, am I simply an ill-informed idiot who just needs to go read a book to figure this out? Do most people really, secretly know what these things are here for, why they are here, who they are? Should I?

Well, it seems to me there is a large body of work written about these things. I'm not clear on if you have read any of the better books in the field on the topic and so I recommended what to me is the best and most accessible one of the lot.

Do most people really, secretly know what these things are here for, why they are here, who they are?

Well not most, but a sizable enough chunk have a wide range of opinions to select from with different levels of scolarship in which to base their claims.

Should I?

As you are interested in the topic and posting in this forum I would strongly encourage you to undertake the research via the literature.

I'm not dismissing the topic or your interest but I read it a lot like if someone said 'Hey, I saw film footage of Fairies!' or 'I had an encounter with Angels/Gods/Enitites' in the sense that yeah, ok and here are the next steps in your education.

I'm not surprised by the footage or your interest because it is already perfectly normal to me.

However all that said it doesn't seem to me that you are at all familiar with the research in the past or currently underway?
 
 
Papess
16:50 / 18.06.07
No, I am not entirely researched about it. And so far, all I have got from people in the few times I have turned my attention to this topic, however, is "shut up about the little green men" and "go read a book", if I talk about it. This isn't something to be coy about, IMHO.

I am not dismissing your suggestion to read the relevant material, XK, since it seems it is something you feel is ordinary, or already covered in other material and I would like to know how it is. There are lots of areas to be studied and I don't particularly deal with UFOs and aliens. I never was certain what to make of it, even though I believe I have been in contact. Which, only serves to make others view me as a nutter.

In the meantime, while I try to find that book in english, if there a possible discussion, that would be great. Why wouldn't that kind of information just be shared - I have no idea, why would it not be?

I find it disturbing to think that there might be a few people out there, chuckling to themselves, about the rest of the world being unaware as to what is "really" going on, because they had not read certain books.

I just don't think this is the same as trying to research a tradition, at this point.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:10 / 18.06.07
Well, it's a big topic, Justrix. Without specific guidance as to what someone really wants to know, "oh hey, you might really dig this book!" is often the most helpful suggestion.

Why not refine your main questions down to five or six bullet points and start a dedicated thread? I'd be interested in a Templey exploration of the topic myself.
 
 
*
17:30 / 18.06.07
MO, I'd be tempted to give book recommendations to someone asking general questions about lots of things. If someone asked "I've had a dream about Inanna; who is she and why is she talking to me?" I'd likely point them to Lady of Largest Heart, which contains as much poetry as factual background. It wouldn't mean I thought they were unworthy of a discussion on the topic by dint of not having done sufficient background research. It's more likely to mean "I don't know where to start; maybe this will help."

The way I see it you asked very big questions: what are these things, where these things can be interpreted as including a whole host of phenomena, and why are they? It's a great topic to start a new thread with, and it's a great topic to start a life's work on. This, though, is the stupid questions thread—great for questions that have short answers or provoke brief discussions—and totally awesome for requesting book recommendations by the way—but not so great for extended discussion on very big topics. I don't think of it as "information that should just be shared," to paraphrase you; I think of it as a big, potentially scary lack of information around which many people have many different ideas and no one has good solid answers (although XK may know otherwise, with her background). It's a bit like going into a Lab "stupid questions" thread and going "the universe—what is it? why everything?" It doesn't lend itself to a three-paragraph answer.

I empathize, though. It's much more fun to discuss things with others than simply read a book, and for many people it's a more effective way to learn. If that's the case for you, maybe there's another thread around here where we can go into more depth on these topics than this one was built to handle.
 
 
*
17:31 / 18.06.07
Oh, or what TTS said. So much more concise.
 
 
Ticker
17:39 / 18.06.07
In the meantime, while I try to find that book in english,

It's in english.

if there a possible discussion, that would be great.

It's a pretty huge topic I'm happy to talk about it but yeah, being familiar with the issues is a good thing. A thread on it is a lot like a thread on tantric practices, a good way of sharing what members of the community think, what resources they recommend, but not the place you'd expect to learn the entire practice from.


Why wouldn't that kind of information just be shared - I have no idea, why would it not be?

This is part of the issue and why a message board is always going to be a crappy medium to really explain it properly in.

Basically it's fundamental questions about the acceptable parts of our concensus reality and the unacceptable. Evidence can be offered up in many ways in many forms by many people to still be scoffed at by others.

IMO, Patrick Harpur building on the work of Keel, Fort, Vallee, and others addresses not only the question of what are these things but why does Science seem to ignore them and mainstream awareness reject them.

I can tell you what I think is causing the phenomenon and why the majority of people can't accept that explaination however unless you're willing to look at the evidence it won't make any sense.

If you go read the Wiki links above and specifically Keel's I can explain what a Keelian construct is and why I believe UFO's are one of several such constructs. Again it's a big topic with many differing opinions.
 
 
Papess
17:47 / 18.06.07
Maybe I can round it out a little. I specifically want to discuss what is in the video, TBH. You see, not once was the word "Fortean" used in that video. I have read Fortean Times, and some articles on the web, that I suppose were related...but for the most part, I try not to fill my head with this fortean/ufo stuff for fear of not processing it correctly and thusly, being considered and even bigger crackpot than I am already considered to be. I mean, all the skinwalker ranch,and Area 51, crop circles, and being visited by little green beings...it is sure to get me in trouble. It didn't occur to me that the little green people I saw had anything to do with Fortean anything.

I don't know where to start, really. I want to discuss what is presented there in that video, at that conference by Jamie Maussan, most certainly. If Fortean or Mayan or Aztecs, or Hebrew mysticsm stuff comes up in the process, very good then.
 
 
Papess
17:57 / 18.06.07
It is in English.

I meant locally. French province, it is hard to get books in english unless I get them online, and that is not possible ATM.

Basically it's fundamental questions about the acceptable parts of our concensus reality and the unacceptable. Evidence can be offered up in many ways in many forms by many people to still be scoffed at by others.

Yeah, I gathered. I thought we could not scoff at each other long enough to discuss it, being open enough here to at least be able to broach topics of the unacceptable and taboo parts of concensus reality.
 
 
Quantum
18:11 / 18.06.07
being considered an even bigger crackpot than I am already considered to be.

By who? We're all freaks here. Can the thread include UFOs, ghosts and fairies? I'm thinking under the umbrella 'Inexplicale things people see'. I've seen some weird things I'm happy to discuss.
 
 
Ticker
18:12 / 18.06.07
I don't know where to start, really.

1. click the Wiki links I posted above to get a better idea of what Fortean means.

2. consider getting the book I linked to above or another one of you like better.

3. start a thread on the video if you want to discuss it.

To be perfectly honest I feel profoundly frustrated right now as I've been trying to give you the means to answer the question for yourself in the most intelligent fashion I know how to recommend. Do the research from a variety of perspectives, get a basic knowledge of the field enough so the jargon doesn't confuse you, and form your own opinion.

After twenty five years of research on the topic I can tell you I believe the video is showing Keelian Constructs.
 
 
Papess
18:28 / 18.06.07
To be perfectly honest I feel profoundly frustrated right now as I've been trying to give you the means to answer the question for yourself in the most intelligent fashion I know how to recommend.

Don;t be frustrated. I am going to read the stuff you linked to. However, I don't think this something someone "can answer for themselves". It is something we need to answer for OURselves, as we are all sharing the planet. I don't think being vague and mysterious about it, or make claims about how long one has studied such things, and yet not being forthcoming. This isn't trying learn a trad or a system of thinking, in fact, I would like to stay away from any systematic thinking about these things. Aliens and UFOS, (and I suppose fairies, since I can kind of see how that might get tossed into this...certainly leprechauns!), these things are suspected of being represented in all sorts of traditions.


get a basic knowledge of the field enough so the jargon doesn't confuse you, and form your own opinion.

Why use the jargon then?


I will start a thread on this tonight.
 
 
---
18:38 / 18.06.07
Thanks XK, I might have to check out that book myself, and I wouldn't be too frustrated if I were you, you seemed to have explained what you meant clearly enough. After watching the rest of that video, I have to admit that the footage of lights in the sky, craft, etc bored me quite a bit, it was the stuff after that that made it a whole lot more interesting. I've seen crop circle pictures before, but some of the things in those fields...wow. The detail there is immense....way beyond any of the average crop circle pics I've ever seen.

Would also be interested in a seperate thread anyway.
 
 
---
18:42 / 18.06.07
I don't think being vague and mysterious about it, or make claims about how long one has studied such things, and yet not being forthcoming.

Once you start trying to explain this area though, there's so much of it and it could take a long time getting through it. Maybe some of this will be cleared up in the thread, but I'm sure that book will be good for you, especially if it's progressing or making clearer the type of work that people like Vallee have done in the field.
 
 
Ticker
18:46 / 18.06.07
I don't think being vague and mysterious about it, or make claims about how long one has studied such things, and yet not being forthcoming.

*headdesk*



This isn't trying learn a trad or a system of thinking,


Uh, yes actually it is about understanding the belief system we operate in which is both a tradition and a system of thinking.


in fact, I would like to stay away from any systematic thinking about these things. Aliens and UFOS, (and I suppose fairies, since I can kind of see how that might get tossed into this...certainly leprechauns!), these things are suspected of being represented in all sorts of traditions.


..all sorts of traditions which do just fine with them. It's our tradition in Western culture that doesn't and unless you are willing to review the information I am happy to give you there really is no way for us to communicate productively on this topic.

You've pretty much ignored everything I linked to, decided I was being:

vague and mysterious about it, or make claims about how long one has studied such things, and yet not being forthcoming.

When in fact I was as explicit as I can be and still say something of value in a single post. Specifically I posted repeatedly what I think is in the video and why I think that.
My length of study was to illustrate it is a field I have spent quality time and effort in and so when making recommendations I can select from a variety of sources quickly.

I find I really have no interest in spending energy to engage with someone who is not willing to even review the links I provide on such a complex topic. If all you want to do is post a thread on a cool thing you discovered and have other people get excited about it, great take it to Convo. If however you want to understand the complex phenomenon and its relationship with Western thinking you're going to have to do some study, post some links and in general have a discussion based on research.

You are the one dismissing what I am saying and what I am trying to bring to the conversation.
 
 
EvskiG
18:48 / 18.06.07
After twenty five years of research on the topic I can tell you I believe the video is showing Keelian Constructs.

I've read Patrick Harpur. (Well, just Daimonic Reality.)

And I've read my share of Forteana over the years.

I skimmed the video. I saw blurry things in the sky and blurry possibly glowing things.

I don't know (let alone trust) anyone involved in making the video, from its creator to the person who posted it on Google Video.

Given all of the above, I'd say I have no basis whatsoever for making an informed judgment about what (if anything) the video depicts.

What makes you believe that the video is showing Keelian Constructs?
 
 
Papess
18:54 / 18.06.07
By who? We're all freaks here. Can the thread include UFOs, ghosts and fairies? I'm thinking under the umbrella 'Inexplicale things people see'.

Yeah, but I think they are explicable, which is why I don;t think this is a case of "indivdual opinion". There is a truth about this that doesn't require soul-searching, I think.
 
 
Papess
18:58 / 18.06.07
It doesn't lend itself to a three-paragraph answer.

No it doesnt. I was asking if people wanted to discuss the video.
 
 
Ticker
19:03 / 18.06.07
What makes you believe that the video is showing Keelian Constructs?

The size, shape, and flying manner combined with objects turning and chasing the plane. Atmospheric/geological phenomenon would be unlikely to be responsive in this manner over such a long distance. The objects appearing and disappearing off the radar but remaining on the film as a constant. The overall sightings arranged in a flap like pattern over the course of time. A window opens, a window closes.

Foo fighter

Wiki: Foo fighter

Sorry if I'm being a bit terse it will wear off when I start enjoying talking about it again.
 
 
Papess
19:03 / 18.06.07
...IN another thread.
 
 
EmberLeo
07:40 / 19.06.07
The comparison of Foo Fighters to Ball Lightning reminded me of something I saw at Yosemite when I was a kid.

It was a bright ball of light rushing along the river. I thought it was a ghost or something. The other kids didn't believe me, except my sister who knew I wouldn't lie. My Dad said it was probably "Saint Elmo's Fire".

I still have no idea what it was, it was moving so fast.

--Ember--
 
 
Quantum
11:01 / 19.06.07
Can it be weird lights thread time now please?
 
 
---
11:49 / 19.06.07
I've been thinking the same thing since last night.
 
 
Papess
14:48 / 19.06.07
I am working on it in between my obligations. It is a lot to process, but I am trying to sort the main points I would like to discuss.
 
 
cerca_trova
14:14 / 21.06.07
So, this excerpt was taken from a journal entry of Adam Jones' (the lead guitarist of Tool):


On the bumpy plane ride I study the works of several Mayanists in preparation for our day trips to the ruins in the forests of Quintana Roo (the Maya ruins of Coba) and the Yucatan (Chichen Itza). With regards to this whole San Antonio curse business, as I've explained before, our hope is to become 'time tourists' by utilizing the hyper-circuitry of the Pacal Votan module (upon decipherment of certain glyphic text on stelae encoded by the Tollanants in the mysterious language of the Zuvuya). Once we're able to successfully navigate the river of time like those galactic sojourners, the Maya (and hopefully not dial-in the wrong channel in the harmonic matrix - is that a glyptodon!), to lift this particular malediction, I've a pocket edition of the Grimoire of Pope Honorius III which, of course, contains some very effective counter-spells (being the most demonic of all occult manuals - there's even an enchantment against hemorrhoids!), including three, no less, proven beyond doubt to extinguish a fire. "In te, Domine, speravi, non consundar in aeternum" looks good, nay infallible, although first I'll have to bone up on the preparatory operations and this strange "making the sign of the cross" thing.

endquote


So, questions:

1. Anyone else familiar with the Pacal Votan module? I've done my fair bit of research and know it's a fancy name for the Mayan Calendar created by the sage king Pacal Votan.

2. Is he somehow implying that the Mayas are travelling through time on a galactic river they've opened by using some harmonic frequency? I thought that this was actually supposed to release some sort of mass conscious awakening on 2012....

3. Is Tool and Adam Jones insane?
 
 
Quantum
14:21 / 21.06.07
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes.
 
 
EvskiG
15:03 / 21.06.07
Bwa ha ha!

Good luck, Mr. Jones.

I was in Guatemala a little less than a year ago.

Went to Tikal with a wild-eyed Guatemalan guide who talked about the Mayans, time travel, the chakras, the international Jewish conspiracy (not quite sure how that one fit in), astrology, and 2012. Slipped us past the ropes and into one of the secret chambers of the high priest's temple. Told us that if we held out our hands in a particular spot we could feel the channels of force that intersected there.

Eagerly I stretched out my hands. Quieted my mind using techniques I picked up over the years from yoga, Zen meditation, and magic. Reached out to see if I could sense anything.

Nothing.

Go figure.

I'm going to Tulum and Chichen Itza in a couple of weeks. Don't think I have a pocket edition of the Grimoire of Pope Honorius III, but if anyone has any experiments they'd like to propose, just let me know . . .
 
 
Ticker
09:42 / 22.06.07
Oh and for TtS and the neighbor issues:

from our friends over at BPAL:

STFU
Silences gossip, slander, and perfidy. Helps you shake off the negative effects of other people�s sniping.
 
 
Chiropteran
16:58 / 28.06.07
STFU: slippery elm bark is good for that, too.

For short-term inconspicuousness, a pinch of agar held in the left palm is said to help one escape unfriendly notice. My own minor experiments have been somewhat supportive - I frequently take night walks along a busy street near my house, and am typically greeted with honking horns, catcalls, speculation as to my sexual orientation, etc. The couple of times I have attempted the agar trick, nothing - not a beep - even though passing traffic seemed as heavy as usual (in fact, the first time I tried it, I went back out after discarding the agar, and found things very much back to normal). Worth a try for specific occasions, maybe (bearing in mind the strategic complications of "invisibility" noted above).

Meanwhile: can any of our resident runesters tell me anything about "Elban runes" (or the "Elban language"), as reportedly used by "some witches in the British Isles"? As far as I can guess, it seems like it's probably a runic alphabet attributed to the eastern Saxons who lived near the river Elbe/Elba/Albis, but that's all I've got. It's for a client, so any help is welcome!
 
 
Ticker
12:27 / 29.06.07
Hysteresis manifests itself in state transitions when melting temperature and freezing temperature do not agree. For example, agar melts at 85 °C and solidifies from 32 to 40 °C. This is to say that once agar is melted at 85 degrees, it retains a liquid state until cooled to 40 degrees Celsius. Therefore, from the temperatures of 40 to 85 degrees Celsius, agar can be either solid or liquid, depending on which state it was before.

Agar is teh cool.
Hysteresis is teh freaky cool.
 
 
Equal Opportunity Disaster
06:06 / 01.07.07
Hey, I'm pretty new to all this so naturally i gots questions about everything. This is my first post in the Temple, please bear with me! This is kinda long but theres alot of info, I really want this to be clear.

A little background is most likly necassary. I've been drawn and followed around by the Norse panthelon since I was around 13 and first discovered them in a very old Collier's Encycolpedia. I was nicknamed Loki in elementry school, which terrified me but others seemed to think it was fitting... . I have seen the Old Man several times and he has never talked to me, but laughed at me every time(in a good natured way... I think.)
I've also seen a goddess that I have been unable to identify and I have only seen her once when I was younger. She made it possible for me to sleep.
Two days ago I saw Hel for the first time. I wasn't expecting it or looking for it, I was trying to sleep but it did not feel in any way like a dream but I may have been asleep but certainly wasn't afterwards.

My question is how do I interact with them for longer than a fleeting moment? I haven't been able to interact with anything non-physical since the Unnamed Goddess closed me off. Does anyone know who she is and how I can contact her? I assume she will open me up again when it's time... but I still want to learn all I can.

She seemed around 35ish and had blonde hair that seemed black when she looked away. She was kind, but aloof. She seemed slightly disappointed that I wasnt able to do what she wanted of me. There were a group of women behind her who seemed disdianful of me. They wore black(or dark, washed out colours that appeared darkish) woolen cloaks that they kept wrapped around them as if they were in the cold. They were surrounded by blackness as if they had a created this spot outside of everything to deal with me.
I don't know what the Unnamed goddess wanted me to do, prehaps just learn to cope and deal with what was happening to me. I do know that I used to hear voices, I know that sounds crazy. I didnt know what to do with them, they overwhelmed me. It was like I was hearing things that had already been said, like several moments before I heard them. I had always heard them, like background noise, but the older I got the louder and more frequent they got until I never had a moment of silence. I couldnt sleep. I felt like was growing crazy. When I tried to sleep they were the loudest. Not like they were shouting, but as if the volume had simply been turned up.
My insomnia, if thats what you would call it got so bad and lasted for so long I now have a neurological disorder from prolonged lack of sleep. One night when I was crying in my bed because I was so exahusted I felt I would die and began repeating the phrase "Make it stop" over and over again in my head. Begging for someone or something to make it stop. I really thought I was going to die.
Then the Unnamed Goddess showed up with the other women behind her and I was with them in this "void" I mentioned earlier. I had stopped crying and was staring in wonder. She looked me in the eyes for a second and it's hard to explain what I saw there... it wasnt compassion just understanding and prehaps a touch of what seemed to be duty. Like she felt I belonged to her and she needed to watch out for my wellbeing. She came close to me and I knew she wanted me to sleep. She pulled the blackness from the void around me until I was cocooned and could no longer see her and the other women. I felt her leave and I fell into my first real sleep in long long time. It was heaven.
When I seen the other God(dess)s it like whatever I'm wrapped in becomed clear and dissolves a little bit, like a one way mirror suddenly cleared away to clear glass for a moment and I could look both ways.

Does anyone have any idea who she is? How I can contact her? The blanket she wrapped me in seems to be thinning and I want to know what she wants from me and how to deal with it. I know that sounded crazy, and I may very well be but I would still appriciate any help any one can offer.
 
 
Princess
15:34 / 01.07.07
No idea whatsoever.
Have you tried some sort of divination?
Or maybe you could out and out ask the goddess what she wants? Maybe light a candle (in case your God is big on that stuff) and invite it to make with the talking?

Of course respectful, careful and mistrustful too.

That is if you want the bother.
 
 
Saturn's nod
15:51 / 01.07.07
"Elban runes"

If Elban==Alban/Albion, it could mean Ogham?
 
 
Equal Opportunity Disaster
18:22 / 01.07.07
Thanks Ben! I shall do that. I hadnt earlier, it seems like common sense but Ive been rather afraid... if she could block everything out like that and expected me to do something she's probably the one who opened me up that much in the first place.... Ive never done too much with candles... is there a good neutral colour?
 
 
Chiropteran
22:39 / 01.07.07
If Elban==Alban/Albion, it could mean Ogham?

Ooh, that's a thought. Thanks!
 
  

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