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DC Universe Surgery

 
  

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Aertho
14:07 / 27.02.06
Blockbuster was part of the Freedom Force? I was under the suspicion that Uncle Sam's regenerative "spirit" powers ressurected the members that were killed in Crisis... But then there's Doll Man, who'd be cool only if he actually was a doll. A series of miniture androids that comes in boxes and with special gizmos... maybe Mario can do a write-up?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:16 / 27.02.06
Thanks Mario, I had avoided much of the Countdown event.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:41 / 27.02.06
<< Blockbuster was part of the Freedom Force?

Not "was," but "looks like he will be for the very first time." BB is a villain, but he may be inspired to help out since it was his city that got blown up. Maybe he's playing both angles, maybe he doens't like the new wardens/gov't/militia running Bludhaven and figures if he pitches in now, the town may become more the kind of city he wants it to be (so he can run organized crime there happily).

It's probably someone new as the new Phantom Lady, I doubt she's come back to life.
 
 
Mario
15:39 / 27.02.06
The hardest part of doing a Doll Man writeup in the way you suggest is making it not sound like Toy Soldiers.

As for Phantom Lady... it may be possible that this time, she's a _literal_ phantom...

Either that, or Dee Tyler had a cousin.
 
 
Aertho
17:47 / 14.03.06
Hey Mario!

(or anyone really...)

Tell me about Zook the sidekick and Zo'ok the plant costume of J'onn J'onzz.
 
 
Mario
22:12 / 14.03.06
OK. It goes like this. J'onn was created in the 50's, where goofy alien/animal sidekicks were de rigeur for super heroes. (See Bat-Mite & Quisp). His particular hanger on was an orange alien named Zook.

Zook hung around for a few years in J'onn's solo stories in "House of Mystery" until it was decided to reposition MM as a super spy (fighting the evil organization VULTURE). Zook disappeared, save for a handful of guest appearances, and finally faded away into obscurity (along with J'onn himself, who eventually found some other surviving Martians and moved to New Mars)

While J'onn returned to Earth shortly before Crisis, Zook was never mentioned again. However, a few years ago, John Ostrander did a solo Martian Manhunter series, and, at one point, J'onn's costume (such as it is) was destroyed. In the ruins of Z'onn Z'orr, he found the Martian plant his costume was made from... the Zo'ok plant.

Basically, Zo'ok was just a throwaway gag. I doubt it'll ever be mentioned again.
 
 
Aertho
22:22 / 14.03.06
Thanks Mario! Now tall me about VULTURE!
 
 
Mario
00:39 / 15.03.06
Basically, your generic Evil Spy Organization (a la THRUSH or SPECTRE) run by a mysterious figure named Mr. V. J'onn accidentally killed one of their chief agents, Marco Xavier, and took over his identity.

Later on, it was revealed that the faceless Mr V. was actually the real Marco Xavier, which made no sense, but that's the biz...

As far as I can determine, nobody ever explained what VULTURE stood for. Maybe they just liked to spell the name with all caps.
 
 
matsya
00:48 / 15.03.06
Ok, here's a doozy.

According to a really thorough chronology of J'Onn J'Onzz that I just found, in Ostrander's series the Guardians of Oa created the GL Corps in restitution for the behaviour of one of their own, someone called Krona.

Is this Krona the same dude from the recent JLA/Avengers mini? What's the chronology here? Did the MM series predate JLA/Avengers or vice versa? Is this just another example of Kurt Busiek being full to the brim of superhero continuity?
 
 
Mario
01:19 / 15.03.06
Krona goes back a long ways (his first appearance was in 1965). He also appeared during Crisis.
 
 
the Fool
03:56 / 15.03.06
Is this Krona the same dude from the recent JLA/Avengers mini?

Yup, they are one and the same. As Mario says above, Krona also factored into the original crisis. It was either him or Pariah's peaking on the creation of the universe that lead to the universe fracturing into the multiverse.

I think...
 
 
FinderWolf
17:28 / 15.03.06
Great article on the creators of Superman, from Comicbookresources.
 
 
Aertho
03:09 / 07.04.06
Can anyone remember this issue from the following synopsis? It's plaguing me.

a satellite years issue of JLA wherein a nine member team faced off a trifecta of Atlantean elementals. Water in Los Angeles was Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Superman. Earth in Metropolis was Zatanna, Firestorm, and Elongated Man. Air in Midway City was Red Tornado, Hawkman, and one other... Superman defeats the Atlantean wizard in charge of the hoopla by having Firestorm make a prism.
 
 
Mario
12:40 / 07.04.06
Research indicates it was probably JLofA #217:

http://www.comics.org/details.lasso?id=37655
 
 
Aertho
12:54 / 07.04.06
Yeah! Thanks, Mr. Mario!
 
 
Mario
13:18 / 07.04.06
All part of the service.
 
 
Aertho
17:08 / 07.04.06
Mario!

Tell me, and Papers, about Enginehead.

Amalgam of Tin and some others? Say what?
 
 
Mario
17:56 / 07.04.06
Enginehead. Sort of a steampunk version of Voltron. Several relatively obscure robotics-related DC characters were plugged into a machine to operate the Enginehead itself.

The characters were:

Doctor Emil Hamilton (from the Superbooks)
Doctor Cyber (a WW villainess)
Rosie the Riveter (from the Demolition Crew, a GL villain team)
Brainstorm (a JLA villain)
Automan (an obscure Silver Age hero)
and Jackhammer, who was created for this series.

Tin was supposed to join the team, but refused. Later, he apparently donated some of his material to evolve Enginehead somehow.

Originally, the merge was supposed to be permanent, but given that Hamilton has appeared since, it's unlikely that the concept will be referred to again (especially since it went from an 8-issue mini to 6 issues)
 
 
Uatu.is.watching
19:20 / 07.04.06


Automan?
 
 
Mario
20:16 / 07.04.06
Thankfully, no.

Automan

 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:07 / 08.04.06
Ugh. Looks like Cliff Steele's less attractive cousin.
 
 
Mario
01:15 / 08.04.06
Basically, yes.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:17 / 08.04.06
And Mutant-Man looks to wearing festive gift-wrapping.
 
 
X-Himy
02:31 / 08.04.06
I have much love for Enginehead, probably more than it deserves. But I think there is something there worth looking at.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:21 / 08.04.06
Pah, what's so unexpected about an orange robot fighting a caveman in a yellow loincloth in the ruins of a future city?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:47 / 08.04.06
Blackhawk Kid.

What's that? I said Black Orchid.

We've cleared up on the 8C thread that Black Orchid seems to have appeared the grand sum of twice since Gaiman re-invented her in the last 80s, and is now officially part of the crowd-scene cameos of the DCU.

[Supplementary question: Vertigo is not quite the same continuity as the DCU. So she was removed from the DCU of her first Gaiman/McKean story, which is a tour of established characters, and taken to the Vertigo niche-universe, and then re-inserted into mainstream continuity?]

Anyway, I'm a little unclear about how plant-powers factor into the DCU's science/magic continuum.

As I recall, Black Orchid is equivalent to Swamp Thing in that she's not a woman but a plant that thinks like a woman. As such, she is part of "the Green", the source Swamp Thing taps into. I also seem to recall that Jason Woodrue and Pamela Isley were suggested/retconned to be of the same ilk.

So is Poison Ivy a kind of flower elemental now, like the Floronic Man, Swamp Thing and Black Orchid? (Are there any other plant-people?)

And is this "magic" in DC terms? She was at the Stonehenge gathering in 8C, but does tapping into an elemental force make you "magic" in the same way as Spectre, Cap Marvel and Zatanna are magic? If it does, isn't Animal Man "magic" for tapping into an elemental animal force ("the Red", wasn't it called?) and isn't Flash "magic" rather than "scientific" for drawing on an elemental Speed Force?
 
 
Mario
12:19 / 08.04.06
[Supplementary question: Vertigo is not quite the same continuity as the DCU. So she was removed from the DCU of her first Gaiman/McKean story, which is a tour of established characters, and taken to the Vertigo niche-universe, and then re-inserted into mainstream continuity?]

The way I tend to view it is that the Vertigo universe is one step removed from the mainstream stuff. They share characters, and certain story elements, but you can't assume that what happens in Vertigo affects the DCU (and vice versa) unless it's specifically mentioned.

So is Poison Ivy a kind of flower elemental now, like the Floronic Man, Swamp Thing and Black Orchid? (Are there any other plant-people?)

Not really, since she still has a human body, but you could argue the point if you wanted to.

And is this "magic" in DC terms? She was at the Stonehenge gathering in 8C, but does tapping into an elemental force make you "magic" in the same way as Spectre, Cap Marvel and Zatanna are magic? If it does, isn't Animal Man "magic" for tapping into an elemental animal force ("the Red", wasn't it called?) and isn't Flash "magic" rather than "scientific" for drawing on an elemental Speed Force?

I think they really limit the "magic" elementals to the classical four (earth, fire, air, water) most of the time, and treat other characters who tap into universal forces as simple metas. But Animal Man _is_ considered a magical character, thanks to Grant & Rick Veitch.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
12:25 / 08.04.06
Thanks Mario for this quick and clear reply! The Vertigo/DCU continuity has often interested me, as at times it clearly crosses over (Martian Manhunter appearing twice in Sandman; Black Orchid meeting Batman; Swamp Thing originating in DCU; Constantine, from DCU, meeting Shade) but at other times it seems they couldn't be happening in the same story-space (American Scream in Shade never affects any other superheroes; magic and deity narratives in Sandman never bring in any of the relevant characters from the DCU).
 
 
Mario
16:18 / 08.04.06
It's fairly confusing, I know, which is why I tend to treat them a separate, but occasionally similar, universes.
 
 
smurph
17:40 / 08.04.06
Black Orchid also appeared in Ostrander and Yale's Suicide Squad, right around the time of the Gaiman book (maybe just before?) From what I remember her character was never developed and she was mostly used to fly non-flying characters into and out of the fray. (Even foggier memories: perhaps undercurrents of a relationship between her and Nemesis?)

According to wikipedia the Black Orchid in the current DCU is Black Orchid III, and has appeared in a graphic novel called Totems and a series called Justice Leauges, along with Day of Vengance and Infinite Crisis.
 
 
Mario
17:56 / 08.04.06
The one in the Squad had a costume, and hence predates the Gaiman mini.
 
 
John Octave
19:30 / 08.04.06
I always thought the Speed Force made Flash more "cosmic" than "magic."

But as long as we're on the Vertigo/DCU problem, what are we to do with good old Sandman Mystery Theatre? Is it now the "official" history or is it treated like "Ultimate Sandman"? There was a story that sort of crossed over with the Starman series out at the time, and Hourman and people like that were in it. Is Wesley Dodd in flashbacks in JSA or whatever now portrayed as wearing the black gas mask and trenchcoat, or is he wearin' of the purple and green with that funky blue/gold mask?

I miss that comic, ridiculous pseudo-poetry on the cover and all.
 
 
Mario
20:13 / 08.04.06
SMT works pretty well as an "official" history, since it lacks some of the more outre elements of things like Shade or Lucifer. As far as I know, nothing in it has been specifically contradicted.

Vertigo is basically the exception to the rule "If X crossed with Y, and Y crossed with Z, then X and Z are in the same universe".
 
 
grant
03:32 / 09.04.06
I seem to recall Swamp Thing and Black Orchid having a tete-a-tete (how tempting to stick an "f" in there) and being all elemental together, but I also think a lot of that was Swamp Thing being the elemental, thus talking to all plants, sentient and otherwise.

And don't forget Brother Power the Geek -- the "trash elemental."

I think at around the same time Vertigo was being born, every "weird" hero was being coopted into elementality or some kind of shared consciousness. That Batman/Swamp Thing team-up I referred to in the Villains thread, where they have to fight the parasitic fungus? Swamp Thing defeats it by removing it from The Green and somehow sending it back to/limiting it to The Grey.

The Grey? So there's room for a "fungus elemental," presumably, since there's a shared consciousness. Did that ever get exploited?

Be fun having a team-up with a mold elemental, the trash elemental and some other junky type. Ragman, I suppose.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
03:57 / 09.04.06
Wasn't Firestorm turned into a "nuclear elemental" around the same time?
 
  

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