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DC Universe Surgery

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Aertho

19:07 / 20.02.06

I always felt Spectre should've been from Urgrund.

I'm actually more interested in what other writers did with the New God Fourth World mythology. I mean, I've seen nothing but failed starts and train wrecks. Kirby may have known what the strengths and limitations of the whole costumed myths thing... see Eternals, Inhumans, Deviants, Thor and Asgard, The Fourth World... but so many other people fall apart or into cliché.

Like Takion. WTF?

Billuccho!

22:05 / 20.02.06

And, does anyone else have a problem bothering to remember anything that happened in any New Gods story other than the initial Kirby stuff?

As far as I'm concerned, the only canon NG stuff is Kirby's and Simsonson's. Really, Walt's Orion series was just that damn good, and everyone should be hunting for it in the back issue bins.

Mario

00:22 / 21.02.06

Part of the problem with the Fourth World is that almost _everyone_ focuses on the Orion/Darkseid dynamic, so we get a lot of retellings of the same basic stories. Those that don't, treat them like ordinary heroes & villains, which also doesn't work.

Simonson was a definite exception, which is why I was such a fanboy (look at the lettercols... I'm there.

)

I don't have a lot of confidence this will change, as we've already heard rumor of a new cosmic threat... one that "even Darkseid is afraid of". :P

Aertho

16:14 / 21.02.06

Re: 97's Genesis miniseries

Is it still canon in the DCU that all sooperpowers are derivations of the Godwave?

Mario

18:25 / 21.02.06

Probably not. It hasn't been mentioned in years, so it's probably stuck in the same concept limbo as Hypertime and the metagene.

Aertho

18:32 / 21.02.06

Yay Mario!

Mario

21:15 / 21.02.06

I tend to put the Godwave in my "Byrne who?" folder, along with most of his work.

Aertho

21:20 / 21.02.06

It does reek of his kind of retcon frenzy.

Mr Tricks

21:29 / 21.02.06

Glad DURGA turned you on Chad. Of course you also know that an alternate reading of the lust card is "strength" yeah?

Aertho

21:42 / 21.02.06

Exactamundo, Sir Tricks. Poifect!

Evil Scientist

21:04 / 24.02.06

I'm pretty sure this hasn't been asked, but Bat-apologies if it has.

When (post and pre Crisis) did Batman and Superman discover each other's identities?

When did they first meet?

Mr Tricks

22:34 / 24.02.06

I believe they first met (post Crisis) early on in John Byrne's run of ACTION comics.

not sure on when/how they discovered each other's identities. Was it off-panel amidst that WORLD's FINEST miniseries?

Bubblegum Death

23:19 / 24.02.06

I apologize if this question's been asked, but what is Hank Hall's(Hawk's)relationship to Hector Hall(Dr Fate) and Carter Hall(Hawkman)?

Jack Denfeld

01:23 / 25.02.06

Hector Hall is Carter's son, but I don't think Hank is related to those guys.

Mario

01:26 / 25.02.06

That is correct. No relationship has been stated between Hawk & Hawkman, despite the similarities in secret ID.

Jack Denfeld

02:04 / 25.02.06

That is correct. No relationship has been stated between Hawk & Hawkman, despite the similarities in secret ID.
Actually funny, you'd think Johns woulda been all over that shit in JSA, with the Lords of Order and Chaos similarities, same last names and all.

Benny the Ball

10:52 / 25.02.06

Supes and Batman seemed to always know each others identities if you read early, silver age stuff at least - it seemed to be a later retcon to make them more antagonistic towards each other, and less trusting. The Byrne superman/batman story saw them meeting, batman wearing a lead lined cowl, smugly revealing he knew superman was clark, only for superman to chuckle and say goodbye bruce at the end.

Mario

14:41 / 25.02.06

I once wrote up a proposal that would have turned Hank into the new Hawkwan (and Dawn Granger into Dr. Fate). Totally impossible now, of course.

matsya

20:24 / 26.02.06

why, because you'd have to retcon the shit out of stuff and invalidate that which has come before? or bring people back from the dead? nah, never happen.

Mario

20:31 / 26.02.06

Well, mostly because the opening section was frighteningly close to JSA #1. Plus, one of the core ideas to explain away (Hawk's going bad) was explained differently by Johns & co.

If you _really_ feel the need to read it, my old notes are up on one of my semi-abandoned websites here.

hachiman

20:50 / 26.02.06

Hey Mario, just read that Hawk/Dove/Hawkman/Fate reboot proposal. Very cool.
It always irritated me that Monarch had to be Hawk, instead of Captain Atom, because of the leak. I have very fond memories of that DC stuff of the late 80's and HAWK & DOVE is a part of that. Granted the title never sold vey well, but hell, they deserved better than being offed in that crossover due to spoilerage. I'm glad they brought back Dawn Granger, and still hope they'll find away to bring back Hank, my fave Hemingway readin-beer drinkin-Rasslin-Young Right Wing-Republican.

Mario

21:35 / 26.02.06

Glad you liked it.

I still think there may be something to that Hawkman/Fate connection....

Bubblegum Death

23:41 / 26.02.06

Hey, I just found out there is a connection between them.Hector Hall
Scroll down to the Dr Fate section.

Evidently Hawk and Dove were the parents of Hector's current body.

Jack Denfeld

00:48 / 27.02.06

Whoa, what the fuck? I wish they had issue numbers. Anyone up on JSA? I've gotta think that's when they may have decided to go with that.

Aertho

02:07 / 27.02.06

So did anyone collect the Spectre series done by Ryan Sook? Looks rather absurd and interesting, and verry verry purty.

Was it good?

And...

Could someone explain the relationship between the characters Patriot and Uncle Sam? Patriot is a composite of seven spirits? Howza whatsis?

Mark Parsons

04:43 / 27.02.06

I recently read and early issue (maybe it was #1) and was very pleasantly surprised. I'd heard that it was boring, pretentious, but found it thought provoking and very well crafted.

DeMatteis is, in my experience, a damn smart writer, and I’ve often enjoyed his “spiritual” tales (he’s a follower of Meher Baba, IIRC). I plan to track these down at Comics Factory in Pasadena, CA, which sells all its back issues at cover price. That is, as soon as I finish buying the Ostrander-mandrake run. I found out I’m a bigger Specter fan that I thought I was…

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

04:46 / 27.02.06

The Hal Jordan as the Spectre series with Sook art? I have most of the early issues until Sook took off. I don't know, it was fairly standard DeMattais cosmic monologuing with little direct plot. Had some interesting bits and beautiful art.

The best issue was (IIRC) #11, which had the Phantom Stranger and all of the Spectres - apparently Hal generated subconscious multiple selves that reflected all kinds of aspects of himself and people in need of absolution and redemption. It kind of lost it's way at times, but it was beautiful and had some nice bits.

Mario

10:56 / 27.02.06

The Patriot was/is the modern incarnation of the "Spirit of America", of which the Freedom Force's Uncle Sam was the prior incarnation. There was a fairly long arc in the Ostrander Spectre run where Spec helped gather the shattered pieces of the American Talisman so that it (and the Spirit of America) could be re-forged.

A decent idea, but a horrific character design. In a later issue of a Superman title, it was revealed that Patriot could switch back to an Uncle Sam-like appearance, which he proceeded to do, and has remained as such. It's likely that the storyline and character (not one of the book's best) will never be referred to again.

Aertho

11:56 / 27.02.06

"American Talisman"

I can see why they'd never reapproach it.

Still, I feel "Spirit of America" could still have a certain sense of novelty. But the look has got to go. Anyone have any advance intelligence on this gem:

Looks like Ray's gone for Dad's look, Phantom Lady is still yellow and green, Doll Man's back, Human Bomb's disfigured, and Uncle Sam's grown his hair out.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:07 / 27.02.06

It's just a hunch, but I think Doll Man is going to get a lot of ladyaction

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

13:29 / 27.02.06

I can't see the image, Haus, so I'm just going to assume you mean because somebody saw Talk to Her and that weird silent film half-way through with the incredible shrinking man entering his girlfriend's vagina to live happily for the rest of his life.

The Falcon

13:35 / 27.02.06

Or that horrible Johns/Austen? Avengers ish with the Wasp and Ant Man doing shrinky-sex.

Mario

13:54 / 27.02.06

This is the image in question:

I've heard it suggested that Doll Man is being recast as a GI-Joe type, and that's Human Bomb (possibly the hero formerly known as Damage) on the right.

The big fellow in the back looks like Blockbuster.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

13:56 / 27.02.06

Whatever happend to Ragman, the Jewish superhero from Gotham?

Mario

14:05 / 27.02.06

He's in the Shadowpact.

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