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DC Universe Surgery

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12:18 / 10.12.05

Lets be fair here. Namor had amnesia for what...a couple of pages in Fantastic Four #4? Assuming Busiek is doing it this way at all, it would be an ongoing subplot.

miss wonderstarr

07:50 / 24.12.05

I just read the Wikipedia entry and forum discussion on the CTW show The Electric Company ("for graduates from Sesame Street"), which I used to relish in the late 1970s.

Of course, I knew that Spider-Man was a regular feature. But Wikipedia tells me the Blue Beetle also starred... and that DC later adopted the character.

Versions of the Blue Beetle were appearing from 1939, but is there any truth in this statement that the DCU's Blue Beetle of the 1970s onward was indebted to the Electric Company show? Is there, indeed, any relationship between the two?

13:23 / 24.12.05

There doesn't, in reading, seem to be any relationship between the two characters, save for the hero name used. The real names are different, the Electric Company BB sounds more like a cross between the Tick and his side-kick, Arthur, than the 1930's created Charlton's BB, or the later 50's produced character that DC aquired.

I don't remember the EC, being british, but the catch phrase is very familiar from somewhere.

miss wonderstarr

16:53 / 24.12.05

Thanks Benny... that's what I would have thought. It doesn't even make much sense, does it, a Marvel big hitter co-starring with a Charlton character who was later bought by DC.

Here's the comment I was referring to. Possibly just erroneous.

Also, didn't the Blue Beetle (whom DC later acquired) also appear on the show? This may or may not have been limited to the Spidey Super Stories skit. --Archola

13:54 / 27.01.06

Can someone describe for me the "Fourth World Ritual" that the New Gods use to "unlock their god power"? An example of pre and post "god power"ed New God would be helpful.

This is regarding Mr. Miracle's asking someone to take his developing powers away...

Also: If Scott Free is Messianic, what's Barda's template? Willendorf/Magdalene/Kali?

14:13 / 27.01.06

I think we've only seen it once or twice, during the Byrne era. I've not read the issue, personally, but from all reports it was probably a generic "standing around in robes chanting" ritual.

And Barda is a warrior goddess, like Hathor or Astarte.

14:27 / 27.01.06

I guessed she was warrior goddess in image...

But I'm really trying to engage with the Mister Miracle 7S book, and in tandem with this article, I'm trying to better understand or extrapolate on what Barda might be... what her story is. If Scott Free/Shiloh Norman escapes spiritual limitations, and inspires self-redemption, is Barda the redeemed? Is she a mother goddess archetype that fluctuates from Dark Mother torturer (Granny Goodness, take 2), to Bright Mother protecter?

Grant added her as the Demeter role during the Big Guns era too.

I've asked for New God information sites before... so don't bother. I just have to get off my ass and search for old New God books.

14:53 / 27.01.06

What is Sgt. Rock's first name? Were we ever shown that he has a first name?

15:00 / 27.01.06

I don't think he's ever had a first name but as a small kid it always amused me that it might be Cliff or Flint.

15:01 / 27.01.06

15:03 / 27.01.06

It was Frank.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:05 / 27.01.06

Chad: If Scott Free/Shiloh Norman escapes spiritual limitations, and inspires self-redemption, is Barda the redeemed? Is she a mother goddess archetype that fluctuates from Dark Mother torturer (Granny Goodness, take 2), to Bright Mother protecter?

While from what I remember Scott freed Barda from Apokolips, I think you could take the tack that while Scott is all about escape, Barda will never need to escape - at least on a metaphorical level, I mean. She is the Goddess of the Body, she is very much in her body. Have you read Michael Chabon's essay on Barda? I'll PM you a link once I find one..

15:07 / 27.01.06

That would be great, Papers! Thank you!

15:09 / 27.01.06

Cool, thanks for the Rock links.

I'm wondering if that graphic novel written by Azzarello and drawn by Kubert - "A Rock and A Hard Place" - was any good. Anyone here read it and have a brief review or impressions?

02:14 / 28.01.06

Chabon wrote an essay on Barda? Interesting. I've always been disappointed that he doesn't do more with comics, right alongside my desire to see Umberto Eco tackle some mainstream DCU project or other.
Anyhow, Barda = Mother Goddess of War. Or, Roz Kirby in Lanie Kazan's (sp? - model, I believe) body.
And, who the hell wrote her having sex (under alien manipulation) with Superman?
What were Morrison's breakdowns as far as one-on-one JLAers for proper gods? Is there a complete, from-the-horse's, list, or just speculation? Aside from spelled-out stuff like Batman's Pluto attachment. Was GL Apollo? Why do I even think that?

06:29 / 28.01.06

DD, for the Chabon essay, go here.

Justice League of Olympus

Superman = Zeus
Wonder Woman = Hera
Batman = Hades
Aquaman = Poseidon
Martian Manhunter = Hestia
Barda = Demeter
Oracle = Athena
Orion = Ares
Huntress = Artemis
Green Lantern, Kyle = Apollo
Flash = Hermes
Steel = Hephaestus
Plastic Man = Dionysus

Zauriel/Aztek/Tomorrow Woman/Et Cetera = Aphrodite(?)

A

07:22 / 28.01.06

Hmmm. I thought Wonder Woman was Aphrodite, Zauriel was Eros, and J'onn didn't really fit into the whole pantheon thing, but I could be wrong.

12:33 / 28.01.06

>> And, who the hell wrote her having sex (under alien manipulation) with Superman?

One guess. And his initials are JB, of course.

Spyder Todd 2008

15:10 / 28.01.06

Yep. Action 593 and 593. With an appropriately named villain as the catalyst- one "Sleez". (Yay for google!)

Bryne. You sick bastard. How do you even get work?

16:09 / 28.01.06

Superman's Zeus cause he's the Leader. Wonder Woman's Hera cause she is too, and she matches Superman. Batman's underground, and always wins in the end. J'onn is Hestia in that he's been in every incarnation of the league, and represents it's sense of "home" and purpose.

16:26 / 28.01.06

Of course, she was also goddess of the hearth, but no analogy is perfect.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

22:28 / 06.02.06

Heres a question for the gang.

Just read the GM written flash story Flash of Two Worlds from Secret Origins #50.

The story is told from the perspective of a kid writing his "What I did on my vacation" essay.

At the end, he says he wants to be a hero when he grows up, and signs the essay as Garfield Logan. A google refreshed my memory that Gar Logan is Beast-Boy.

Now, I always thought BB was an alien. Was this a retcon done after the GM story was written, or was this a nod to something else?

Phex: Dorset Doom

23:28 / 06.02.06

Yep Garfield Logan is Beast Boy, though he's not an alien, unless the character has been 'rebooted'. Garfield was a (human) boy who followed his biologist parents to Africa where he was bitten by a rare green monkey (hence the green-ness) which gave him his powers. I'm not sure how he wound up with the Titans, but that's the basics of his backstory. My guess is this Flash essay was written before his monkey bite, though a recent Teen Titans has it happening when he was a toddler.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

23:45 / 06.02.06

ahh, ok. in the Flash story he mentions his parents being away in Africa, but they left him behind, so perhaps a bit of the old alternate reality slipping through.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

23:49 / 06.02.06

Oh, and I think the alien I was thinking of was the green skinned guy with antannae from LEGION or one of its versions, in the far future and all that.

13:20 / 07.02.06

That's Reep "Chameleon Kid" Daggle, who's orannge.

13:33 / 07.02.06

Interesting...they haven't mentioned Chameleon's name in the new Mark Waid Legion book, have they? They just keep calling him "Cham."

Also, DC should collect Grant Morrison's Flash run (co-written with Mark Millar) in paperback, with the above-mentioned Secret Origins story by Morrison. So say I!! Make it so, DC.

13:45 / 07.02.06

Somebody's made Wikipedia angry!

Chameleon Boy should not be confused with Beast Boy, also called Changeling, another young shape-shifting DC Comics superhero.

Heh.

Reep Daggle

How do they come up with these names? I suspect illegal substances.

15:39 / 07.02.06

Regarding J'onn J'onzz place in Justice League of Olympus I always thought he was Prometheus. Elder God who betrays his own kind to aid the Olympians and becomes the protector of the human race. I havent actually seen a Morrison breakdown of who the Manhunter from Mars was supposed to be, and after reading New World Order where they go head to head with the White Martians and reveal the Martian involvement in Earth's pre-history and Mankinds origins, i figured that J'onn=Prometheus, specially in light of the whole weakness to fire bit. Still works better in my mind too, specially since Hestia is a female god.
Also Oracle is the Delphic Oracle and Barda is Athena, Goddess of War and as patron of Athens, Liberty. That ties in to her escape from Apokolips and the servitude of Darkseid, God Of Tyranny.

17:17 / 07.02.06

Well, J'Onn's an elastic fellow, so he could probably pull double-deity duty, not to mention the gendering aspect. And, to think, soon a Martian-deficient League.

18:11 / 07.02.06

Like Superman, Vartox is an alien and has adopted a new world which he has sworn to protect. He was originally a hero on his home planet of Valeron, which was destroyed.

Huh. Why Valeron?

19:55 / 07.02.06

For Big Barda I'd suggest looking into the Hindu Warrior Goddess: DURGA (even the name sounds similar)

According to the narrative from the Devi Mahatmyam of the markandeya purana, the form of Durga was created as an warrior goddess to fight the demon Mahishasura who could not be defeated by any of god or man due to a boon he received after intense prayers to Brahma. By virtue of this power, he invaded the gods, who went for help to the supreme trinity - Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, but Mahishashur defeated all of them and unleashed a reign of terror on earth, heaven and the nether worlds. Eventually, since only a woman could kill him the gods got together with the trinity and created a dazzling beam of energy out of which Durga was born.

I can see the Hestia connection with J'onn J'onnz. I might also suggest Proteus, the Olympian shape shifting sea god. The weakeness to fire would be fairly obvious there. If we're thinking Titans then Epimetheus (Prometheus' brother) might work better. He remains loyal to the Pantheon, carries a sad regret about losses in the past and is also quite helpful to mankind.

20:05 / 07.02.06

What exactly is 'barda' anyhow? It comes in vats, I know that much from some Russian novel, who knows which, but is it a drink, a waste-product, or simply vats full of big warrior women with interesting hair and a strong attraction to messianic escape artists?
Google is being kinda useless on this one.
All the other Apokalipsian types have easy names to break down.

And, has Grant Morrison ever commented anywhere on OMAC? I'm just seeing lots of connections, lately, that hadn't hit me ever before.

15:40 / 08.02.06

I am still set on Prometheus, and when i say betrays his own, i mean that in New World Order J'onn betrays his fellow Martians (The Elder Gods/Titans ) to aid the JLA (the Olympians).
True J'onn would never have gone along with the White Martians genocidal plans, but he still choose humanity and the JLA over his own kind, which is where my belief on his place in the pantheon stems from. J'onn's status as belonging to an lost race of superbeings which precede the current race and had a hand in the ordering of mankinds origins pretty much locks it down for me. His weakness to fire becomes poetic irony, in that Prometheus stole fire to give to mankind while J'onn, humanity's staunchest otherworldly defender is harmed by the thing thst is arguably the basis for human civilization. Also Hestia is a Goddess of Fertility and the Hearth, doesnt work for me, and Epimetheus, with his connection to Pandora and her box also doent have the right ring to it.
Also regarding Barda, Morrison used thr Greek Pantheon as a template for his JLA, so as cool as Durga sounds, for me its Athena, warrior goddess of Liberty, since she's the only native of Apokolips to ever escape its grip.
Looking at my post i realize i have spent WAAYY too much time thinking about this, probably because of my fatbearded love of that JLA run. I think i'll shut up now

07:17 / 09.02.06

And, has Grant Morrison ever commented anywhere on OMAC? I'm just seeing lots of connections, lately, that hadn't hit me ever before.

Like?

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