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New X-Men #154

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00:58 / 18.03.04

I know... I know... Halle is what happens when my imagination gets ahead of my reasoning. Grant's probably going to let Austen name the last Cuckoo. There probably isn't a system to the way they're named.

Like I said before, "orange vmeme" strategism would allow for the possiblity that Fantomex turned into Apollyon. I'm not disagreeing, I just wish Grant would've made it clearer. Like how I wish he would've named the last Cuckoo! There're my faves.

The white hot room is where all the Slayers...whoops! I mean Phoenixes of the universe meet? Somebody said the white hot room was like Barbelith... I think the Phoenix is like Barbelith, the white hot room is like the Invisible College/Outer Church, ...and Jean, Quentin, and the rest of them are like nanosentinels operating on the badly wounded universe. I love this SO MUCH more than Paradise X. What a whiny fucking cop-out that was.

And I suppose Cassandra's explosion was Beast's intervention, but it just felt out of place... like you're reading the spread instead of the page, and here's one side with an explosion, and a self-destruct on the other. And Cassie knew something was happening to her just prior too. Weird.

I want the Vol 3 NOW

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

01:13 / 18.03.04

She might have just heard/felt an enormous musclebound feline hurtling towards her across the Pacific Ocean, too.

01:26 / 18.03.04

Jean is a White Phoenix of the Crown, apparently, and so in the Phoenix metauniverse she wears a white Phoenix costume.

so:

white = Kether = crown chakra

anyone have any theories on the color/Qabala/yoga associations for the multitude of other Phoenixes?

what about Quentin Quire? which Sefiroth or chakra is he, based on the color of his costume? any thoughts on what that implies about his character in the larger context of NXM?

01:26 / 18.03.04

>>>And I suppose Cassandra's explosion was Beast's intervention, but it just felt out of place... like you're reading the spread instead of the page, and here's one side with an explosion, and a self-destruct on the other<<<

You know, reading it again, I'm wondering if there isn't a production error there. Certainly it reads more smoothly if you follow Cassie's destruction with Beast/Phoenix rising up behind ("I drowned the last whale"). Maybe that page and the "Triplets rule!" page were accidentally reversed?

Ahh, probably not.

01:27 / 18.03.04

Yeha, I suppose you're right. Ah well. It just felt off.

Apollyon DOES NOT look exaclty like Fantomex. They are both male and wear white. They're both covered completely, so we can't really tell. The most significant aspect of Fantomex' character that we can understand as being "him" is the way he arrogantly and sardonically speaks. Apollyon speaks like a U-Man. And Apollyon is an assassin? Yes, he's a killer, but assassins are much more stealthy than flying up and demanding that the Proud People bow. I guess we could take the visual cues for what they are, but like I said, it's just not clear.

If Grant did another end of the world at 2012, we'd die of overkill.

01:41 / 18.03.04

I'm down with Kabbalah.

Yeah, Jean's a White Phoenix, and all those otehrs are just Phoenixes from other times and planets. I know she wears white there, but i think that's as far as the direct symbolism gets. It's all just psychological representation in Jean's phoenixverse, so those costumes are just as colorful as the others she finds there. And I thought that we were seeing the white hot room things trhough No-Girl's colorful images?

Kabbalically, QQ's wearing the colors of emotion(green) and imagination (purple)... taken together you get the Star card of hope. Jean's in unity(white) and soul(gold) which is the High Priestess card.

01:49 / 18.03.04

I know she wears white there, but i think that's as far as the direct symbolism gets.

no, it's definitely more than that. the voice thing with all the ///s says that juggling all the atoms is more difficult than you'd think, even for a White Phoenix of the Crown. which would imply that the color-coding has to do with some kind of specialization among Phoenixes.

very interesting about the Tarot cards.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

01:58 / 18.03.04

Okay, I'm trying to find the other mention of Weapon 14. Where's it at, kids?

02:07 / 18.03.04

Kabbalically, QQ's wearing the colors of emotion(green) and imagination (purple)... taken together you get the Star card of hope. Jean's in unity(white) and soul(gold) which is the High Priestess card.

And if you're going by the chakra color system... QQ's purple stands for the Crown Chakra (also the color of his hair) and green is the heart chakra. So I think it's still consistent with Chesed's imagination + emotion thing.

And yeah he did feel a little like Marvel Boy but I don't know why since he didn't really look like him.

11:31 / 18.03.04

I couldn't make it out at first, but now I realize that Jean tossed Sublime into a giant incinerator upon entering the White Hot Room. Phoenix disinfection successful.

11:50 / 18.03.04

What's the point of placing post-temporal telepaths in a heirarchy? Making one more special than the others is like pouring a cup of distilled water into a swimming pool.

How do we know that when that green fish-looking Phoenix-guy enters the white hot room HE's not wearing white and Jean's one of the several, but dressed in red and blue?

Seems to me that Jean and the other universal Phoenixes, including "potentials" like QQ, are merely sentient creatures who've psionically ascended to the point where the Phoenix Force can reach in and use them as fictionsuits from outside of time. The point of the Phoenix reaching in is to heal the universe through nano-surgery. But how does that make sense, you ask? The universe is NOT a sentient bacteria colony or Hank's broken heart... Ah! But it IS exactly those things. The universe INCLUDES all matter, all energy, all life, and all thought. The Phoenixes arise to fix broken cells, burn away others... nano-surgery. I totally get it. Individuality is like pretty wrapping paper. It all gets thrown out after Christmas, you know?

12:10 / 18.03.04

But... is it any good?

(Got my copy in my jacket pocket but can't really read it at work...)

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

12:22 / 18.03.04

I felt really happy with this one, no more to say for now.

12:47 / 18.03.04

You know what? I think I ruined the whole Weapon 14 reveal for everybody. I suppose if we'd never talked about it, it would've been more of a shock than the whole Xorn = Magneto thing. Sorry guys. If I feel my brain cracking a big secret from Seaguy or Vimanarma, I'll keep my mouth shut and let you all enjoy it unfold.

I still wish we'd found out the last Cuckoo's name. Fuck it. Maybe we should have a contest.

12:57 / 18.03.04

Yeah, but actually seeing it was cool too!

And fear not, Chesed. We all knew deep down inside in the parts of our minds where Sublime lives and manipulates us that the Stepford Cuckoos were Weapon 14.

So? Was Esme Version 02 or Version 05? I want to say that she was Version 05, the best one. (Remember, each Weapon was an improvement on the last.) But I think it makes more sense in a twisted way for Sophie, the most honorable, to be Version 05. Esme smacked of Middle Child Syndrome. Her being Version 02 of 5 would explain her need for individuality.

13:35 / 18.03.04

If I feel my brain cracking a big secret from Seaguy or Vimanarma, I'll keep my mouth shut and let you all enjoy it unfold.

No don't hold back as I sometimes enjoy the discussion more than the surprise. Or you can always PM me and we can talk about it

13:48 / 18.03.04

The thing with green vmeme consensus conscience is that is inherently obliterates heirarchy. All five versions of Weapon XIV were subsequently and essentially the same -none more "powerful" or "advanced" than the other. Green vmeme thinking is where postmodern political correctness comes from and equal-rights offense inititatives. Green Vmemes are paradoxical to a great extent due to the fact that people evolve past group equality. Weapon numbers from X to XV do advance heirarchically, because people evolve in their understanding that things DO operate according to heirarchies and evolve in time.

Which is what the "Riot at Xavier's" and "Murder at the Mansion" arcs were all about. Esme was taking Kick to separate herself from her sisters, growing up in her own rebelious way. When her Kick-amped sense of individuality leaked into Sophie, she grew threatened, she engineered Sophie's death. QQ started the Riot to test the fact that Xavier has to acknowledge that kids will ALWAYS challenge "equality".

13:58 / 18.03.04

I've been skipping these threads for a while. Can someone give me a Reader's Digest version of the Cukoos=Weapon XIV thing? I am confuged.

Meanwhile, back at #154 I think you can read the Appolyon=Fantomex thing either way. I personally don't see any strong reason for him to be Fantomex, either in the plot or thematically, so I'm going to choose to believe he's not.

Did the Three-In-One actually do anything in HTC other than stand around and be scared of the flaw in the universe?

And does that mean that Cassandra/Martha "faked" deactivating Jean's chakra, or merely that Jean allowed them to think they'd deactivated it in order to fool Sublime?

I have to say, that whole scene with Jean and Sublime was a total reprise of Robin (through Fanny) "taking Quimper off the board" or equally of Peter StJohn revealling what he'd done to the Lloigor. It was the classic G-Mozz ending of "my psychic powers are more psychic than your psychic powers and I already defeated you 6 issues ago, you just haven't noticed yet." Which used to bug me but now feels like an old friend.

I liked the ending. And I think it's kind of cool how GM has lined up the meaning of his whole run on the Scott-Emma relationship. That's a pretty good way to "pin it down" so that future writers don't casually say, "oh yeah, but then Scott and Emma have a fight and he goes back to Jean."

Overall, it's been pretty great. The revelations about Kick/Sublime make a lot of sense out of a whole host of things that were bugging me about the run, and the poetry of it all comes back a bit.

Much as I loved him when I was 12, Silvestri doesn't really do so much for me these days. It was okay, I guess, but I would so rather have seen Ethan, Phil or Quitely pencil this. Alas.

And that's it.

I'm gone. Cerebus #300 last week and nXm #154 this week and I have officially given up my pamphlet collecting habit. 'Course, I'm still collecting trades and OGNs, and I'll still be yapping here from time to time but after ... em ... 17 years my need for a weekly comics fix is at an end.

Yay.

14:15 / 18.03.04

The Cuckoos were grown in Weapon Plus labs alongside Fantomex, E.V.A., and The Huntsman. I'd say that they were also next to Cassandra, but people would crucify me. Anyway, Sublime engineered the delivery and arranged for the Cuckoos to be inserted into the student body at Xavier's. Being telepaths and running with five multiprocessors, they could easily run reconnaisance for Weapon Plus, avoid being telepahtically scanned by the teaching staff, and "guide" individuals toward more war-engendering positions. They also preserved the usefulness and viability of Weapon 11. :P

While doing their jobs of supplying the school with hypercortisone-D in accordance with their orders, one version(Esme) began to exceed the others in individuality(her "crush" on the Japanese Stuff guy). After experimenting with Kick, and sensing the growing individuality of another version(Sophie) she engineered the death of her rival in the Cuckoos' group mind.

After the death of Sophie and the Sublime ordered shooting of Emma Frost, Esme left the school and the remaining Cuckoos to their own devices. The remaining Cuckoos(Phoebe, Celeste, "unnamed") stayed with the school, seeing it as their best option for staying alive in a savagely violent world. Somewhere along the way, they stopped working for Sublime. Similar to E.V.A and Wolverine and all other Weapons. Using their combined telepathic talent, they became core telepaths for the Xavier Institute. Done.

14:17 / 18.03.04

Maybe the colours of the pheonixs is a Star Trek thing marking rank (or better still experience).

Let's face it at the end of #154 Jean had been host to the pheonix 3 or 4 times (if you include the dark pheonix bit) and should be an old hand at this "sort/disinffect the universe" type thing. Where as QQ is still a rookie in the pheonix force (an "ensign" [sic] if you will) and gets the crappy green uniform.

Personally I'm going to start bugging Marvel until I see "The Adventures of No-Girl" limited series. I love Cassies' guote "everything's so colourfull and exicting in the cartoon world".

Hopefully we could get Phil Bond to do the art

14:20 / 18.03.04

Chesed, Right, right. But where's the in-comic justification for all this stuff. I get the picture of what was discussed on the 'lith but it doesn't really match my reading. What are the prominent clues that make this seem so plausible.

'Cause I ain't really seeing them.

14:28 / 18.03.04

That's fine that you don't see them. You asked for a reader's digest version of how the Cuckoo's managed to be Weapon 14.

I filled in the blanks and missing pieces cause that's what I do. Feel free to discredit me

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

14:35 / 18.03.04

I think Grant's run masterfully gives you all the answers/excuses/info you need to fully enjoy it wherever you're coming from.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

14:42 / 18.03.04

Actually, I think Houdini's just asking the same question I had. Is there any other line in the book that makes reference to Weapon XIV? I was flipping through Assault, and couldn't find one. Is there another? There was some intimation that there was a mention, at some point, of XIV being "abandoned".

When/where was this?

15:19 / 18.03.04

The Cuckoo's are a failed Weapon Plus experiment. They somehow get to Xavier's school and become students. Perhaps Fantomex delivered them? Who knows, I certainly don't care. They work as a failed Weapon for me and thats as much as I want or need to know.

One of them did DIE at the open day remember... where were the angry parents? The girls were all set to ship themselves off to another Psi-teacher. I'm guessing they went to Xaviers because there was the largest contingent of top level psi's there, Xavier, Jean and Emma.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

15:21 / 18.03.04

Also: so glad I didn't read the spoilers this time! I've never felt so excited reading a comic, the end actually made me say "that was awesome!".

Of course, I only use that word in an ironic sense. Mostly. Well.

I was awesome!!!!!111

15:43 / 18.03.04

And does that mean that Cassandra/Martha "faked" deactivating Jean's chakra, or merely that Jean allowed them to think they'd deactivated it in order to fool Sublime?

Pehaps that deactivation was the momentary distraction mentioned in the white hot room.

15:55 / 18.03.04

They didn't deactivate the crown, they blocked it. When they stopped (or died), she got her Phoenix back.

Keith, like a scientist

16:00 / 18.03.04

i'm sitting here at work reading all these forum posts, and am just completely fascinated by grant's work on NXM. it's killing me. i want to go home and read #154 again right now! i already started re-reading the series last night. a truly astounding achievement in comics. in fell swoop, grant pulls it all together and leaves very minimal loose ends. sure, it's all a bit confusing and we wish there was some more plain detail on some points, but what's shown is what was needed to tell this huge story of Sublime. it's amazing to think that the entire 40 something issue run is one big complete story.

anyway, that's all for now...

16:34 / 18.03.04

Pehaps that deactivation was the momentary distraction mentioned in the white hot room.

i think the "momentary distraction" was Jean Grey's entire mortal life, as seen on the scale of the White Hot Room.

16:43 / 18.03.04

i think the "momentary distraction" was Jean Grey's entire mortal life, as seen on the scale of the White Hot Room.

Yeah, that's how I saw it.

17:32 / 18.03.04

Very happy with this. Not much else to say that hasn't already been said--like some others here I was somewhat skeptical that Grant would manage to pull things together, but he pulled it off marvelously. I look forward to reading the whole thing in a sitting when the third hardcover appears.

17:46 / 18.03.04

"you have to water it with your heart's blood"

This is the only line that seemed weird in the whole issue, kina jarring. What does that even mean anyway?

17:59 / 18.03.04

Well, imp, you read Promethea, right? I read that line and it said to me that in order to fix the problem with the universe, you gotta sacrifice your personal desires in order to know what's right -in order to do the right thing -in order to have the power to do the right thing.

Sacrifice yourself to your own compassion.

Quasi-mystical, yeah, but Jean gave up Scott in order for the fuure to be new.

18:00 / 18.03.04

Way back when Quentine Quire died, he sadi the ebnemy was inside all along. He was right about sublime. I was wondering what you guys thought he meant about him not being born yet. He also said he will meet his parents in a room. Did he mean the white hot room? I'm also confused on why he was there with all of the Phoenixes. COuld someone clarify this? Thanks.

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