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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men #154

  
  

Page: 12345(6)7891011... 18

 
 
FinderWolf
15:09 / 17.03.04
>> It's pretty fascinating, to me at least, to be treated to two monumental finishes in comics storytelling in one month; one of them hopelessly dismal but immaculately constructed, the other one so cosmically life affirming you want to just jump up and down.

Which other big ending are you speaking of, Birdie? Cerebus?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:16 / 17.03.04
The one and only. I mean, it's not as hopeless in the scope of the story, but as a contrast to NXM. Yikes. It's like Inferno Night to Excalibur Day.

(Although Excalibur did have two Inferno crossover issues [the first of which had a cover that scared the fuck out of me, you know the one I mean, with all the leering demon faces of the team, oh man, that was horrifying] but still, it kept its trademark lightheartedness for the most part)

Where was I?
 
 
Quimper
16:20 / 17.03.04
Yeah, that was a scary cover. But I can't get Brian's leather dom outfit from that issue out of my head. The one he wore when he was Meggan the Goblin Princess's "consort." Woof!

Well, amazing. Simply amazing. I don't think I have anymore questions.

Did you think YOU would live forever, little speck?

Damn Jean and her emotions! Just like that last time! Dark Phoenix...Broken Universe...get a grip on yourself girl!

Fly. (sniff)

And you know what? Triplets DO rule.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
16:45 / 17.03.04
Damn, I forgot about that! Claremont is such a perv.

TRIPLETS RULE!

I just saw a thread on some other fannish board that raises an interesting question. Did Jean cleanse the universe completely of Sublime? Doesn't it technically still exist to bite the X-Men in the ass later.

I suppose the important thing, as always, is that hope was restored and now they'll be able to truly defeat him when they need to(or that by defeating Magneto, they stopped what ended up to be Sublime's last shot).

Intresting:

- Scott is stronger/more essential than Logan. Logan made it to this future unscathed and it was still fucked up without Scott's help. Makes the Summers thread of NXM one of the most poignant, if you ask me.

- Basilisk still haunted the halls of the Institute. No, I know Silvestri just fucked up. Let the fan fiction/no prize hunt COMMENCE.

- To me, the best thing to come out of HCT is an appreciation for Planet X. This had been the weakest of the run for me, simply because a fight against Magneto seemed completely at odds with the whole "New" X-Men ideology, you know? "Oh, wow, another 'Battle To The Death' with Magneto? Can we have the Dino-Sentinels back, please?" But now it's clear that this was Sublime's point. This was Sublime's plan. This was how he worked.

- The one weak link seemed to be the Triplets. I mean, I loved seeing them, but their thread of HCT seemed the most disposable (Yeah, even more than the Insect People. I liked them.)

- I get it! Fantomex wasn't whole because of his seperation from E.V.A. Ah ha! Sublime was his creator either way.

Now, what I'd still like to know is Cassandra's role in all this. All speculation that she was anything less than a Mummudrai is now rendered moot. So, what was really the point of her? Well, it seems to me like she was a precursor of the real meat of Grant's run. The real enemy of Xavier's dream is progress. Cassie was the ultimate realization of Sublime's fear. The Most Powerful Mutant Ever Created. The Dark Side Of The Previously Most Powerful Mutant Ever Created.

So, what did she ultimately accomplish:

The Manifestation Of The Phoenix (Scott's absence to fight Cassie left Jean on her own and was, thus, the catalyst for the manifestation.)

So, how much did Sublime know about Cassie? How much of the first third of the book did he engineer? This is really the key question that still remains unanswered. But, I trust that someone here will have it licked in 3...2...1...
 
 
MFreitas
17:09 / 17.03.04
Well, at least Sublime provided Cassandra with the nanosentinel technology through the Weapon Plus program. And as I stressed in a previous post, some lines of her dialogue sound pretty much 'sublimish' in style and in goals.

But none of you still answered me this: wasn't it just TOO convenient Cyclops went to Tibet to pick Xorn's help? What if he didn't? How could have Magneto's plan come to fruition then?
 
 
Quimper
17:15 / 17.03.04
Well, Sublime was behind the U-Men. So the direct manipulation of the first third of the book is there. As far as his relationship with Cassie, I'm still going with she was scooped out of the sewer by Weapon Plus. In E is for Extinction, she claims to be a gov't researcher and has obviously had years to make herself at home in the errant Master Mold.

I LOVE that Cassandra's namesake finally comes into play again. "I saw this ALL coming you know." Just as she saw the imminent war and "can see through time and space."

The line about the Orphan Universe losing its parents did two things. a) reminded me of Quentin, and b0 made me think that these "parents" referred to were Scott and Jean, if the line is to be taken literally.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:20 / 17.03.04
Definitely. Quentin is a/the orphan.

Not only was that line echoing Cassandra, her entire being was Cassandra-esque foreshadowing. She is/was the next step in evolution.

More Interesting:

- "Gus was a good dog." I was always a bit perplexed that that little heart that shows up in Volume one when Chuck is slowly disintegrating inside Cerebra. That little dripping heart reminded me of that small crystal in one of the panels toward the end of 154. Something's going on there. Ethan, if you're out there, what was that supposed to be?
 
 
doyoufeelloved
17:20 / 17.03.04
God, poor Hank. Poor, poor Hank. Between the asthma and the decapitation, I almost cried.

The hospital/patient stuff in the White Hot Room... we really did get THE INVISIBLES in X-Men drag here, and I can only hope it leads to a sharp spike in sales of the INVIS trades. ;-D

Yeah, this was hot. The Magneto of PLANET X makes a little more sense now. As far as I can tell, the only things we never get confirmed for us are --
(1.) Whether or not Cassie's origin (Xavier's miscarried twin) is legit; the fact that nothing contradicts it indicates that it is, but I'll be re-reading the run tonight and looking for the ways that Sublime had control over her.
(2.) The precise reason Emma was shot; but it seems to me that Mags (an agent of Sublime) didn't want her (a.) getting too close to the Special Class, who he was trying to corrupt, and (b.) figuring out what was probably creeping around the edges of her mind after she took Kick. (And we can reasonably assume that death exorcised that particular demon.)
(3.) Why Weapon XIV -- the Cuckoos -- were a failure. None of them were being controlled by Sublime, I guess, so how did they end up at the school? You'd think he'd kill them long before he'd let the X-Men turn one of his weapons on him.

In any event, it's a great issue. And can we just acknowledge Grant's run as the ULYSSES of the X-Men? After all, they both end with a triumphant, sexual "Yes"...
 
 
doyoufeelloved
17:22 / 17.03.04
wasn't it just TOO convenient Cyclops went to Tibet to pick Xorn's help?

All the X-Men were dosed with nano-Sentinels at that point. Scott's idea might not really have been his own.

That said, it's time we asked the big question: Why doesn't Sublime just run around sterilizing mutants in their sleep?

To which the only reasonable answer seems to be that he is a comic-book villain. Who explains things in detail in the final moments of his plot. Conveniently.

(Really, I did love the book.)
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:29 / 17.03.04
(1.) Whether or not Cassie's origin (Xavier's miscarried twin) is legit; the fact that nothing contradicts it indicates that it is, but I'll be re-reading the run tonight and looking for the ways that Sublime had control over her.

There's also the stairs comment and the only possible echo of that could be Cassie's origin.

It might not even be that Sublime necessarily had control over her, but that she was a genetic result of Sublime. A combination of Mutant (Sublime's most potent potential enemy) and Sublime Germ itself.

So, basically, it's inferred that Sublime had a hand in all the Sentinel programs, human and mechanical. He did create what ultimately became the nanos and the dinos but it was the happy accident that was Cassandra, this literal progenitor of all the realized conflict to come, that led to them being set loose on the world.

They were hungry when they fell down the stairs: all manifestations of the Sublime Germ are in some way connected. Even if Sublime wasn't directly responsible for Cassie's decisions, they were still felt, at least in Cassie's larval state, by the rest of the germ. It's clear that Weapon XII (I think that was its number, the one in the chunnel) simply leaked the Sublime germ everywhere. The same thing happened to HCT's psychics.

Also, unrelated but related note, I was flipping through Vol. 1 yesterday and the panel in which Jean is "cured" of the nanos should have been a dead giveaway for Xorn. So clear that they were being short circuited and not holistically "healed". Damn it!
 
 
Quimper
18:07 / 17.03.04
Don't even get me started on the scene where Scott and Hank were talking about the old days, how Xavier used to make them remember the colors each bad guy wore.

The whole freakin' panel is done in magenta and purple, and the helicopter windshield is in the shape of Magneto's helmet!!! I can't believe no one saw it then!
 
 
Mario
20:04 / 17.03.04
Some definite answers:

1) The Cuckoos ARE Weapon 14
2) EVA IS part of Weapon 13
3) Apollyon IS Fantomex.
4) Martha IS No-Girl
5) Sublime IS behind the Weapon Plus project
6) Beast lied about the cure for the "extinction gene" (but I wonder if the gene _was_ Sublime)

And some observations:

1) The White Hot Room sounds an awful lot like Barbelith
2) Jean is wearing the white costume Cockrum originally envisioned
3) Jean regained her powers after Cassandra died
4) The Cuckoos were numbers 1, 2, and 4.
 
 
Mario
20:05 / 17.03.04
Sorry, 1, 3, and 4.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
20:10 / 17.03.04
Oh yeah, I forgot about the fact that Beast lied about the cure. Anyone wanna put money down on whether or not the new writers acknowledge the fact that humanity is, in fact, going to die within a couple of generations? (Ah, don't, it's a sucker's bet.)

I can't think of any point in the X-Men's history where a new creative team had so many fun, kick-ass threads to pick up. I wonder how hard they'll drop the ball?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
20:12 / 17.03.04
But none of you still answered me this: wasn't it just TOO convenient Cyclops went to Tibet to pick Xorn's help? What if he didn't? How could have Magneto's plan come to fruition then?

Erik planted the seeds awfully well, and knew that the key to his plan was patience. He knew that at some point, since he accepted a job with the X-Men, they would come calling. It was just a question of when.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
20:14 / 17.03.04
Oh yeah, I forgot about the fact that Beast lied about the cure. Anyone wanna put money down on whether or not the new writers acknowledge the fact that humanity is, in fact, going to die within a couple of generations? (Ah, don't, it's a sucker's bet.)

Well, he did offer a terrifically huge loophole by implying that Hank was unable to follow through with the cure because he had to take over the school himself. Now that Scott has turned around, he could conceivably have the time to do it.

Man, that asthma line was so terrific.
 
 
Quimper
20:14 / 17.03.04
Especially if he knew about the nanosentinel infection beforehand. He WAS working with Weapon Plus somehow. ("I've fed them so many lies...they're bound to retaliate." or something like that...Mags said it in Planet X).
 
 
Mario
20:18 / 17.03.04
Acronym fun.

Knowing the numbers of the surviving Cuckoos, we can state that Esme and Phoebe were
numbers 2 and 5. So there are actually a finite number of possibilities for their names to spell something out.

1 CE?PS
2 CS?PE
3 CEP?S
4 CSP?E
5 PS?CE
6 PE?CS
7 PSC?E
8 PEC?S
9 ?ECPS
10 ?SCPE
11 ?EPCS
12 ?ECPS

I'd say #5 is the strongest possibility, for if the last Cuckoo had a name starting in Y their names would spell out the Greek word for soul:

PSYCHE

Assuming the "Name ends in E" rule holds, I think a nice choice would be "Yvette", or maybe "Yvonne". Don't you?
 
 
Mario
20:55 / 17.03.04
Yes, I know it should be Esme & Sophie are #'s 2 and 5...it's been a long day.
 
 
Tamayyurt
21:28 / 17.03.04
The best part was seeing Quentin wearing that Phoenix suit at the end. That was a nice touch... he did become a higher being and wasn't killed by Xorneto.
 
 
Aertho
22:37 / 17.03.04
Holy Christ do I feel vindicated.

Killer issue. Abso-fucking-tacular. Death everywhere and intimacy prevails!

Some things though...
Although I read the issue the same way, I DON'T think E.V.A.'s lines imply that the previous page's Apollyon is Fantomex. E.V.A. could be rerouting memory files in her broken state. I can see it being read that way, but there REALLY isn't enough data for it to be conclusive. And that's only ONE mystery Grant left us. Unless there's a REALLY significant scene of Fanomex's eyes in some other story where they're different colors... maybe...

My SPICE Weapon XIV theory was culturally and psychologically accurrate too! Damn. I'm on board with the PSYC*E theory... but I'm still confused about the spelling. There's no end to the numbers, so Esme COULD be Cuckoo 6. Is there a Halle Cuckoo that was never hatched? Maybe Halle was the one Weapon Plus held onto, so that they could monitor thoughts directly?

I think the Cassandra explosion and the Weapon 14 explosion were either related or something else we didn't quite see. Maybe the pages themselves were switched for some reason.

Okay be back later
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
23:00 / 17.03.04
I thought Cassandra's explosion was due to the arrival of the Beast. All that green might have also just been Stuff stuff.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
23:15 / 17.03.04
Aw gawd, lets not make up cuckoos based on no evidence, shall we?

I get this tomorrow. Pretty pumped.
 
 
Mario
23:16 / 17.03.04
OK, I'm a moron today.

Forget about the Yvette thing. But the list of 12 combinations ( the TWELVE! Maybe that's who they are! ) is still valid.
 
 
Mario
23:18 / 17.03.04
As for Apollyon not being Fantomex...if he's a U-Man, it's possible he no longer has his original eyes....
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:28 / 17.03.04
Ahhhh lovely read.



Perhaps Henry was MOST effected by SUBLIME (manafesting an entire personality) because his mutation is to Devolve?

Emma's contamination could have been removed by Phoenix durring the resurection.

"Every diamond has it's flaw" hmmmmm

Was that crystal thing towards the end that Mrkaan Crytal the Shi'ar guard because it maintians the Universe?

Could Quentin then have also been the Orphaned Son of Jean(Mayline) & Scott sent into the future? Yeah that would be cabel but themeaticly speaking!

QQ also looked vaguely of Marvel Boy/Jack Frost/Dane.

So there IS a bit of Back to the Future time rewriting... That whole future was amputated...
Does that Parallel all the severed heads?
bleed from the heart instead?

I suppose with Cassandra distroyed, it would make sence that Jean Grey was reconnected with the PHOENIX...

Hmm was that the Phoenix Corps we saw there at the end?
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:33 / 17.03.04
On Apolon's eyes:

while they each have been individual replacements was there ever a close-up of Fhantomex's eyes?

There was also that Mutant Ilussionist who had the missmatched eyes...

from the Movie & later in GASP Uncanny X-men
 
 
Mario
23:46 / 17.03.04
Actually, if anyone reminded me of Dane, it'd be Tom.

"The game's up".

Which reminds me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but....

At the end of the battle, there were only two survivors. Tom, the last human...and EVA.

EVA...Eve...coincidence?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
23:46 / 17.03.04
There was a very explicit shot of his eyes in Ethan's Vol. 2 issue, if I recall correctly. They've been explicitly blue the whole time. But, as someone noted, I'm sure they could have been replaced.

And how's this for foreshadowing irony:

Cassie: Where will your gift take you next, I wonder? Will you become an insect? A worm? A slithering incoherent slime mold still trying to charm human women with its awkward poetry?

The last one! The last one!
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
00:12 / 18.03.04
i THINK the implication is that Apollyon is Fantomex, but it's not spelled out very well. Not as well as Grant ties up the other loose ends...

(my first thought on seeing Apollyon without his mask was "So Apollyon is Anakin Skywalker?!" and then I thought about it for a second and realized that couldn't be true. He must be Snake-Eyes, instead.)

Question: How can Logan look so damn young 150 years in the future? Does his healing factor put him in a never changing state? He doesn't age at all? Seems counter to the whole Wolverine: The End series out now...

And if that IS Fantomex...how can HE be alive?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
00:15 / 18.03.04
////It lost its parents when unit////y br////oke out a////cros////s the meg////asys////tems.

Did anyone else get the maddest image of universes, universes, fleeing for their lives as an outbreak of conformity swept across reality? A young one cut off from his parents?

Goodness gracious.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
00:16 / 18.03.04
Fants is a Super Sentinel. He could probably live forever. Isn't he synthetic? Same as the Cuckoos?
 
 
Mario
00:30 / 18.03.04
Let's see...

1) Wolverine's healing factor could easily handle old age (considering how old he is already). If anything, WOLVERINE: THE END is an exception to the usual depictions.

2) It's possible that, as various body parts on Fantapollyon failed, they were replaced. That's the U-man shtick, after all. It might also explain how he was sundered from EVA.

3) The Cuckoos are the other aberrant survivor... but did they ever actually TOUCH anyone? Considering they never actually left the Cerebra chamber, I thought they could be a mental projection of some kind (with their real bodies hooked permanently to Cerebra).

As for the unity/megasystems thing...my first thought was "Oh...the Marvel universe had trouble joining the Supercontext."
 
 
doyoufeelloved
00:57 / 18.03.04
Man, I don't like picking fights, but I totally do NOT understand why people are INSISTING that Apollyon was not Fantomex. HE LOOKS JUST LIKE HIM, PEOPLE. It makes sense that he would have a bad jones for genetic modification -- remember, EVA was ripped out of him at some point, and for all we know his entire life has revolved around being a Weapon-Plus project -- and he's an assassin. It's all there.

That said, I'm currently compiling a comprehensive list of NXM plot holes that I'll toss out here to be picked through once it's complete...
 
 
doyoufeelloved
00:58 / 18.03.04
As for the unity/megasystems thing...my first thought was "Oh...the Marvel universe had trouble joining the Supercontext."

Awww. Poor little baby comic universe.

Does anybody else think HERE COMES TOMORROW should have been set in December 2012?
 
  

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