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The miserable thread

 
  

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Ganesh
13:27 / 08.12.05
That's what we need from friends, not polite interest and uncomfortable visits

Have you communicated this to them bluntly? I mean, making it clear to devoted parents that you're not particularly interested in their offspring and would rather not hold it, thanks, is moderately taboo. Your friends may be fearful of risking the friendship, so the polite interest and uncomfortable visits continue.

The fact that you're reluctant to start a thread on the subject in case said friends are lurking on Barbelith suggests you're somewhat anxious about broaching the subject yourselves. If you expect your friends to overcome the show-interest-in-baby taboo, you may have to be a little more straightforward with them yourselves.
 
 
Sax
14:01 / 08.12.05
I think one of the most important aspects of parenthood is to constantly remind yourselves (the parents) that you are *not* just defined by the fact that you made the beast of two backs and one of you squeezed out a little muck-covered infant, or indeed that you adopted one from Skelmersdale or China or whatever. It's difficult to get out - especially when the kids are young or, like us, you have no close-by support network - but as soon as you're comfortable leaving the kids with a babysitter, for God's sake do it. Get out, get pissed and don't talk about babies too much unless people ask. Otherwise you might as well just get "Mum" and "Dad" T-shirts and sit in a bath of sick for the next four years.

Anyone want to see my baby pictures?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:05 / 08.12.05
Deva: Dude, respite. There will be respite. Possibly not immediately, but there will at some point be respite. Promise.
 
 
Sax
14:07 / 08.12.05
Yeah. Get four bottles of Baileys and drink until you choke on Christmas Day.
 
 
Nobody's girl
14:10 / 08.12.05
Thanks everyone, it's really helped to be able to mull this over and whine a bit. Hattie and Ganesh, I think you're right about needing to communicate better. Sax, thanks for the wonderful imagery, you made me laugh.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:36 / 08.12.05
Oh thanks for that.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:38 / 08.12.05
You try so fucking hard to be so sweet to people...
 
 
Hattie's Kitchen
14:45 / 08.12.05
Nina, chill a bit, I don't think NG was blanking you.
 
 
Nobody's girl
15:35 / 08.12.05
Sorry Nina, no offence meant.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:45 / 08.12.05
I've been thinking about this a lot this afternoon, and I guess it largely comes down to the way you relate to certain people anyway. My relation to most people I know largely consists of getting drunk with them, and I've noticed that since making concerted effoirts to deal with what my doctor very politely likes to call "alcohol dependency syndrome" there are certain people who I rarely socialise with, because I've taken myself out of the "going to the pub after work every morning" thing. I've been trying to rectify this recently, having finally noticed that it's happening.

Of course, I don't know how much any of this applies to you guys, but I think for me a large part of it is that when people stop going out and getting pissed all the time (or insert whatever form of social interaction seems appropriate) for the very sensible reason that now they have a child and coming home drunk every night isn't particularly good parenting, I don't really have many other models of social behaviour that I can use.

Rereading that, it makes it sound like I'm accusing all your mates of being irredeemable drunkards, so I hope you believe me when I say I'm not, it's just an example.
 
 
GogMickGog
19:24 / 08.12.05
Because my holiday job is uninspiring and rubbish.

Because my overdraft is big and red.

Because I haven't seen my lady friend in weeks.

Just because...
 
 
Dot the Narc...Oleptic, That Is
01:00 / 09.12.05
I can't get enough fucking sleep but I can't fall asleep either. Damn it. And there are about 30 extra pounds on my body I could do without.
 
 
Tom Tit's Tot: A Girl!
01:11 / 09.12.05
Oh wait, Tom Tit thinks because they've had plenty of time to get used to the idea, any of your friends who think it was any less their decision "should be soundly bludgeoned".

Well.

With an attitude like that, frankly you're lucky any of them visit at all!


As others have mentioned, that was hyperbole and nothing more. I thought I got that across, but obviously failed to communicate it adequately. I don't want my friends to be bludgeoned, believe it or not.

Everyone else, thanks so much for the understanding and all. It's truly appreciated.

The fact that you're reluctant to start a thread on the subject in case said friends are lurking on Barbelith suggests you're somewhat anxious about broaching the subject yourselves. If you expect your friends to overcome the show-interest-in-baby taboo, you may have to be a little more straightforward with them yourselves.

Well, firstly the not starting a thread thing wasn't simply baseless paranoia - our friend reads a lot more Barbelith that most members do, I think. In fact, said friend happened upon this thread anyway, came around, apologized, NG and I felt ashamed and we apologized, hugged, and all agreed to be more communicative with one another in future. I'll just have to try and communicate this stuff more often when I feel emotionally stable. It also helps that our friend is a fantastic person in general, though.

Stoatie - I don't really drink,particularly now that I'm a dad (I'd rather not repeat a cycle) but I do understand the point, and it probably applies in other ways.

So, should we maybe shunt this into a new thread as suggested or just draw a line under it here. Things are looking brighter today, and I think we both appreciate the listening ears and considerate responses given by you guys.

On to other misery!

Mick-Travis! I understand being separated from your chosen ape, as before NG and I lived in the same country the pain was excruciating. The only real positive side is that you'll appreciate it so much more when you are together, which I hope for you will be soon.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
01:29 / 09.12.05
Hattie: Nina, chill a bit, I don't think NG was blanking you.

You know what the clue was?

NG: Thanks everyone
 
 
Cat Chant
08:44 / 09.12.05
Dude, respite. There will be respite.

My baby Mac's DVD drive is broken and I cannot make songvids. Where is the respite when I cannot make the crew of the Liberator dress like students, dress like housewives, or in a suit and a tie?

(But thanks. There will really.)
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
09:58 / 09.12.05
[I hope this isn't continuing the subject as part of this thread too long. I'd be happy to carry this on elswhere in a more child-related thread.]

Despite the fact that Tango-Mango and Lilly are two of my favourite people on the planet, when their daughter was born I wasn't really the friend I could have been.

Stoatie, don't be ridiculous. Do you have any idea how important to me it was being able to call you up on a Saturday morning every couple of weeks and see if you wanted to go for a walk with Biskie and the baby (as she was then) in her pushchair to the park? Stopping off for a half or two at the pub garden, then strolling back, and chatting about things, baby/child-related or not (especially not) was a bit of a lifesaver.

On a more general note, getting a baby sitter in so you can both go out is the most important thing to do in maintaining your friendships, I think. Our neighbours were fantastic about this in the first six months or so, once we were confident about leaving her with others for an evening. Another strategy we adopted was taking her to the pub itself when meeting friends, childless or not, assuming we could find one which didn't mind small children (Stoke Newington is quite handy for such things). Yes, you're sometimes restricted to a weird part of the premises (cf Weatherspoons pubs for the most part), but especially when the weather is fine and sitting in the garden is an option, it usually works wonders. Mmost of our friends were either into it or tolerant of us having to deal with vomit, nappies and wailing (which actually isn't that much of being a parent really) and even the expressions of amusement that our daughter could wander around nicking random strangers' mobile phones without them complaining...

If one or other of us wanted (or wants - this still applies) to stay out with the friends to continue carousing, then we took/take turns in returning home to put the infant to bed. It's not a perfect strategy, but it generally makes seeing people quite possible, if the friends are up for it.

Likewise taking her along to events like the FT Unconvention or even readings of books worked out quite well at around age one; hell, we even managed to take her to see a gig at the Royal Festival Hall, and were only unable to take her into the main auditorium because she didn't have a ticket. (NB this was a rock gig, not a quiet sort of show where any interruption would have been intrusive). BTW for those wondering, if she did start crying, it was usually quite easy to slip out to avoid disrupting proceedings for other members of the audience, and sitting near the door was always a preferred option for several reasons.

You soon pick up on what events are baby/infant friendly, and even if you have to miss out on some parts (for example a lecture is not always easy for a child to sit through at age two - by four sometimes she manages a whole 50 minute Residents DVD screening without too much loud nattering - and that can be dealt with by making whispering a game), there's often a space out of a main hall at a big event to go where there's so many people anyway that no-one minds if you have a pushchair and bottles to deal with. It occured to me the other day (at such an event) that F has been to more art openings than she has been to the cinema by age four, and even the most packed-out )and what you would expect to be the most child-hating of) crowds have been fine about conversing and interacting around a folded buggy and a baby-carrier.

I try to take our daughter along to appropriate band activities - not usually our gigs, though she's been to soundchecks - but most years we have summertime open air jams on the marshes. A couple of times she came along and is joining in more and more with making the music at such times. No-one in the group has said they mind, and seem to be quite into her playing along (unless they're just being polite of course), and naturally I asked first if it was OK. As she gets older, we involve the friends with her activities where they might suit all involved. So we had a birthday jam session when she was three for all her friends, other children, and fellow musicians to join in, some of whom found the experience of playing music with a range of children to be not only novel but involving. It wouldn't be for everyone, but we made sure that those who weren't interested in hanging out with a dozen or more excited children, a host of bangable or rattly toy and real instruments and a PA (which included a lot of their parents) had space to slip off to the outside and get the beers in.

What I'm getting at I suppose is that sometimes it is possible to continue with your interests by adapting to taking the child along with you, and if it happens to be something that your friends would care to be involved in then you get to see them that way too. It might take some time for this sort of thing to be possible, and of course not everyone's activities can be made child-suitable. The increasing independence of the child concerned really helps with this, but our experience is that there is life - and friendship with non-parents - after childbirth.

Once again - Stoatie: you put up with a whole load of baby-watching for a few minutes while I popped out to the loo or whatever at various things, so again, your friendship was invaluable to us then and still is.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:16 / 09.12.05
Good Grud man, that is gonna be one cultured mothrafukin' kiddie! The flippin' Residents!?

I shall have to sire one of my own so that together they can rule the world of improvised drone as King and Queen, while we look on, ancient and beaming...
 
 
Sekhmet
12:23 / 09.12.05
I am depressed. I am bumming other people out. I am whining and crying too much. I am resentful and withdrawn and snarky. I am turning into Marvin the Robot from Hitchhiker's Guide and I hate myself for it but I don't know how to stop.

Jesus H. Motherfucking Christ. I wish someone would shoot me in the head.
 
 
■
22:05 / 12.12.05
Rereading that, it makes it sound like I'm accusing all your mates of being irredeemable drunkards

Well, only one of them. None of the rest seem to drink at all. And I am waiting for redemption at the bottom of a bag of crisps one day. Wrapped in blue paper.
Anyway, I skipped this thread until TTT mentioned it at 6am on the M8 the other day (my body clock is still shot, was I as amusing as he hoped? Not half as amusing as his wee bro, I'm sure - "I couldn't afford the surgery for turning my face into an arse") as I'm rubbish at dealing with others' misery. I always have been.
As an example, my dad was up this weekend going to a funeral of an old schoolfriend's wife. Never met the woman or the old friend, and try as I might I just couldn't conjure the required sympathy. It had no relation to my life. I can make the noises, but it's irrelevant to me.
I think it's a similar thing with kids. Until I can interact with them, they just don't register on my radar. Babies are fine and I understand why they're so important to parents, but what can I do for them or vice versa? I'm getting in the way without any benefit to either party.
That said, the parents are still the same people, and should be treated the same way they always have (which I have tried to do, but which was kinda hard when I could hardly walk for a month or two).
Anyway, what you kids doing for New Year? Now I've seen NG's mum's place it seems like an ideal quiet venue for storing a child with its two grannies while we paint the town (well, my flat) red.

Oh, Sekhmet:
I am turning into Marvin the Robot from Hitchhiker's Guide and I hate myself for it but I don't know how to stop.
You do of course realise that everyone loves Marvin and wants to help him but he won't let them because he knows better. [Wuffles]
 
 
Sekhmet
12:31 / 13.12.05
That's cuz he's got such a terrible pain in all the diodes down his left side, you know. Chronic agony tends to make one a bit of a dishrag in social situations.

Sorry, carry on with the misery.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:04 / 13.12.05
Hattie: Nina, chill a bit, I don't think NG was blanking you.

You know what the clue was?

NG: Thanks everyone


I'm sorry I just don't understand why Ganesh gets personally thanked when he's a bit harsh and when I am trying my utmost to be polite and supportive I get beaten up on. So it upset me, I'm a person with feelings. SURPRISE!
 
 
Ganesh
11:00 / 22.12.05
Confuses me slightly too, Nina, when my comments here and subsequently are characterised as the cynical point-scoring of a blood-scenting Barbebitch. But there we go.

Today's misery is more of an irritant, really. I've just been 'phoned by the restaurant at which we'd arranged our splendidly family-avoidant Christmas lunch to say all bookings are cancelled. Grrreat. Three days to go, and I'm trying to make alternative arrangements - but everywhere in London is now a) priced up, and b) booked up.

Fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, I grant you, but pah. And double-pah.
 
 
modern maenad
11:11 / 22.12.05
Ganesh - If you can't get a replacement booking how about filling a few bags wtih goodies, then heading off for a decadent christmas day pic-nic somewhere bizarre. Big cities always have this great creepy-esque abandoned atmosphere on christmas day and I've often thought it'd be good to just sort of wander about, then stop and eat lunch somewhere slightly incongruent...
 
 
Ganesh
11:14 / 22.12.05
It's a nice idea, MM, and the 'wandering through deserted London' thing was great last year. It's the 'sitting somewhere chilly' aspect that's slightly less appealling. And there's me piles to consider.
 
 
modern maenad
11:21 / 22.12.05
indeed - and there's only so much glamour one can muster from a thermos......time to hit the yellow pages/michelin guide
 
 
Ganesh
12:00 / 22.12.05
Got a late cancellation at the Connaught. Hooray!
 
 
Ariadne
12:07 / 22.12.05
Brilliant! Glad to hear it.
 
 
Rhayader
18:39 / 03.01.06
I'm becoming progressively hypocondriach, and this bird flu thing isn't helping at all.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:16 / 03.01.06
This is gonna sound really stupid*, but...

someone has recently moved in upstairs who plays bangin' techno the whole time. For the first few weeks I felt unable to do anything, becasue they'd be playing it in the early evening, when nobody except us maniacs who work the night shift is trying to sleep.

Now I'm NOT working, it's 1:16 am and I'm scared to go and yell at them because they could probably kick my head in.

The reason this is "miserable" rather than "angry" is that I hate myself for not having the balls to complain.

*I'm generally a fan of the noisiest music there is... I just try not to subject whole blocks of people to it at the same time.
 
 
Hattie's Kitchen
08:16 / 04.01.06
Dude, you need to get the Throbbing Gristle on at full blast at 5am. Working nights means you have every right to play your music in the wee hours.

I remember the same thing happening to me when I was working nights - I was constantly getting woken up in the early evenings by the woman downstairs playing Turkish folk music at full volume, so when I got home at the crack of dawn I would stick on some Prodigy at full blast. She was quick enough to complain about me waking her up, which gave me the opportunity to tell her that she wasn't exactly being considerate either. May sound petty, but it worked.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
08:54 / 04.01.06
Stoatie: I recall you saying when you moved in that there was a clause in your contract about not playing loud music after a certain time (11pm?), so presumably your upstairs neighbour has the same restriction?

Not that knowing that helps tell someone they're annoying the hell out of you. I too used to fight noise from upstairs with even more evil noise (Alec Empire worked wonders), but I'm not really convinced that is the best method now, just because it can piss off the whole building and more.

Have you met the person concerned on the stairs at all? Maybe you could mention it to them in passing in a nice kind of way?

Otherwise you have to go the whole council noise pollution route, which as I recall in Hackney only works between 9am-5pm... though I'm probably wrong. Well, sort of...
 
 
Shrug
18:21 / 06.01.06
Some pretty specific work induced miserableness here. Worse still it's all my fault as I almost completely ignored it all Christmas leaving me a ticking timebomb of stress. Bringing me to the realisation that I will always be a procastinatory, useless, fuckup doomed to suffer at the hands of my own stupidity forevermore.
On the bright side, previous experience has told me that I will get this done and to an acceptable quality at the toll of sanity and physical well-being but right now I'm really not happy with myself.
 
 
Axolotl
13:01 / 07.01.06
Bah. That girl I called hasn't called me back. I think that's reason enough to feel a bit down.
 
 
Ganesh
13:14 / 07.01.06
Why not start a Barbelith thread about it, Phox?
 
 
Mono
13:51 / 07.01.06
i am really blue these days. and weirdly homesick and feel like i haven't been myself for abour 2 years. yuck.

or maybe it's just winter...
 
  

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