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The miserable thread

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Essential Dazzler

22:52 / 22.02.08

Wow, I think I just properly fucked up my relationship.

Essential Dazzler

22:58 / 22.02.08

ONE FELL SWOOP

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

23:07 / 22.02.08

What? What happened? Are you alright?

Essential Dazzler

00:58 / 23.02.08

I think we're OK now. I've promised not to drink anymore.

Essential Dazzler

01:00 / 23.02.08

I don't knowif it will last, but suicide is my only option if it doesnt.

01:23 / 23.02.08

I know it hurts, Pacific, but you can't do yourself in like that. You must take care of yourself no matter what - with or without your loved one.

08:10 / 23.02.08

Have you tried going to a supprt group? That might help.

On my way to class today I found a little black cat who'd been hit by a car. There was no way to help him--he was too badly hurt to live. I sat by him and stroked his head while he died.

*Weeps.*

Essential Dazzler

13:06 / 23.02.08

The Suicide talk isn't serious, just 3am melodramatics.

We've talked, we've cried, we've planned, we know what's wrong, we're going to fix it and I'm going to fight as hard as I can because I can't lose this.

I'm going to see someone on Monday about professional help, which will hopefully go well.

So everything seems better in the rational morning, but cold and grey is the general tone of the day.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:22 / 25.02.08

The hate, bile, and despair generated by dealing with bureaucratic phone systems and websites is enough, really, to swallow the entire world several times over.

I may not have my student loan repayment deferred in time to prevent them from taking out the money at the end of this month. FUCK.

17:09 / 02.03.08

Just found out that my dad has started drinking again. He’s once again rambling incoherently on the phone and when I ask him a question there’s a gap of several seconds before he replies. It’s so depressing talking to him.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

17:34 / 02.03.08

Oh, cake! I'm so sorry to hear that. It's really difficult, having a parent you don't want to have to talk to because of drink.

Why had he previously stopped drinking?

I can't remember exactly what prompted my mother to finally -- after having quit once, and then started again after the divorce -- go to AA, but things improved so much after the fact.

08:37 / 05.03.08

I have a cold, and as a function of my job have just had to handle bloodstained children's bedsheets. I should be in bed.

09:41 / 05.03.08

fell in love with someone last year. She was seeing me and someone else at the same time. She was confused; didn't know what she wanted; I had such low self esteem at the time that I let this drag on for 12 months.

I stopped seeing her.

She stopped seeing him.

Couple of nights ago I bumped into him walking her dog and a year's worth of barely buried hurt and anger flooded back.

This afternoon she texted me to say 'If you'd been a friend when I needed you then things might have been different for us this year.'

I know there's sides to every story and this is the cliff notes version but if I don't vent somewhere then I'm going to explode.

Old pains, guys, they're like ghosts in my head right now.

All Acting Regiment

10:35 / 05.03.08

That's pretty horrible. Can you get any happiness out of the fact that at least the dog's being looked after?

11:45 / 05.03.08

'If you'd been a friend when I needed you then things might have been different for us this year.'

What about her? So, the relationship was all on you Bigger Boat, she has no responsibility for it? Gut feeling tells me that if she wanted to be friends with you, she would decide to be, despite what has gone on. But regardless of what has gone on, she has decided not to be and to torment you instead.

My personal opinion: she can't bloody well forgive herself for the way she treated you and so she either avoids you or blames you. Be careful, if she drinks, she'll be texting you, professing her love for you. Just remember, this is not about you, it's all about her. For someone like that, it's all about what they want when they want it.

That doesn't seem like something someone says if they have any maturity about how to behave in a relationship. Be thankful the other guy has to put up with her. Just take care of yourself.

All Acting Regiment

12:20 / 05.03.08

Also, a text like that, if it's true, what's the point in her sending it? Other than enjoyiong the idea of you beingp issed off?

12:49 / 05.03.08

I highly doubt there is any truth to it, however. Relationships cannot be thrown all upon one person like that unless there was abuse or betrayal. Even then, a person with any maturity recognizes their part in the relationship and takes responsibility for it.

But yeah, what AAR said, fucking pointless. She gets her kicks causing you heartache and she is a small person who can't own up to her own actions.

If emotional injuries were visible to the human eye the way stab wounds or a broken bones are, then we would all be criminals.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:50 / 05.03.08

I think we're a bit short on detail to blame Eve post haste; it might be best to check whether:

Couple of nights ago I bumped into him walking her dog and a year's worth of barely buried hurt and anger flooded back.

indicates some action, such as, e.g. remonstrating with the chap. Or the dog.

12:59 / 05.03.08

Just to be clear, I am not blaming er.."Eve", but she sure is blaming Bigger Boat. Which is just wrong, wrong, wrong. She should grow up. The dog walker, as you seem to be pointing out Haus, is not a passive bystander in it all, either. Indeed.

13:39 / 05.03.08

thanks guys.

Didn't speak to the dude beyond some REALLY strained pleasantries then a hurried exit from the park. I feel a little sorry for him as well as irrational jealous.

And I fully take on board that I was equally complicit to let the thing carry on for so long. Bumping into dude was just a shock that brought back stuff I've been trying to put behind me.

Stuff like this, that followed my previous entry:

'i do care about you a lot. It's a shame things went so wrong between us.'

and

'...I've missed you though. Don't know what that means but I try not to think about it'

Well, that's just a different order of headfuck.

Thanks for the space to vent

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:53 / 05.03.08

The dog walker, as you seem to be pointing out Haus, is not a passive bystander in it all, either.

Well, no. He's walking his dog. The swine!

It sounds, ABB, as if she is still confused - which is a shame, but it's not something you should be having to deal with. It seems as if you were in a situation which was ultimately satisfactory for nobody, and was resolved. Nobody was evil, there, but things clearly didn't go well.

So, how do you deal with this not-evil woman whose motivations may not be totally transparent to us? Well, seeing her clearly didn't work, and there is no suggestion that she wants to start seeing you again, anyway. You've got by without her in your life for a while, and were it not for this happenstance you would continue to be doing so. If you haven't replied to these texts already, perhaps one response communicating that you are sorry that she was unhappy with your performance as a partner and/or friend, that you feel the best way to protect you both from disappointment in future is not to seek each other out and that you would like her to stop texting you would be a good way to go.

I hope you're bearing up under the sudden intrusion of history.

13:56 / 05.03.08

'If you'd been a friend when I needed you then things might have been different for us this year.'

Yeah, right! I heard that crap before too. It usually means you should have been more complacent with their selfish ways.

Anyway, one thing I did not understand about the story, is, she stooped seing him, but he is still walking her dog???

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:04 / 05.03.08

D'ya think, Megsy, that maybe they are seeing each other, having gotten back together at some point in the intervening period? The swine!

14:08 / 05.03.08

Well, no. He's walking his dog. The swine!

Actually, he was walking her dog. Way to misdirect the point though! He isn't a swine for walking a dog...in fact, no one called him a swine - except you. And who said anyone was evil?...what the heck are you on about?

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:12 / 05.03.08

Actually, if they are going out with each other, it may well also be his dog at this point. But yes, way to misdirect the point, clearly, rather than typing error. I am, as has been mentioned, an evil genius. The point was, he is certainly not a passive bystander. He is an active dogwalker. And? Shall we spurn Eve, and all who give her shelter? The swine!

14:18 / 05.03.08

D'ya think, Megsy, that maybe they are seeing each other, having gotten back together at some point in the intervening period?

Well, that would be perfectly ok. It would be amazing, though, and also a bit spooky, if he were still walking her dog a year os so after they stopped seeing each other.

Unless he is a professional dog-walker, evidently!!

[btw, Haus, I didn't see your previous post, but that's just because I was writing mine while it was posted]

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:26 / 05.03.08

There's an interesting sub-question here - essentially, does Barbelith basically hate women? I would probably say no - it's very well-intentioned, and hating women isn't a very well-intentioned thing to do. Does Barbelith, however, uncritically take the side of members? Often, yes. Does it have a limited skill-set in doing so, and does this support often therefore take the form of telling the complainer that the complainee is evil, manipulative, worthless, immature and so forth? That it do, gammer, that it do.

Does it happen that a majority of people vocally unlucky in love on Barbelith are male and heterosexual? Well, yes, it does seem so. As a result of which, a lot of the dissing tends to attach to women, and often as a result of our constituency young or emotionally fragile women, which emotional fragility is acceptable in the person who is complaining about them, or indeed in the person being complained about when it was part of a setup that involved the complainer getting together with them. It doesn't seem, all round, very salubrious.

14:30 / 05.03.08

And? Shall we spurn Eve, and all who give her shelter? The swine!

Oh please, Haus, go make your sordid, exaggerated implications elsewhere. I said nothing of the sort.

14:33 / 05.03.08

This isn't a woman-hating thing, Haus. This is about people who don't take responsibility in relationships and point fingers.

All Acting Regiment

14:38 / 05.03.08

Re: Essentially, does Barbelith basically hate women?, etc.

I don't think so, but, yes, in these threads - the ones where pissed off/upset posters come along and ask for support, and where pissed off poster is male pissed off/upset about a female - it does end up looking (which is perhaps the same as being?) that way, for the reasons Haus gives above. It's an unfortunate occurence. We should perhaps stick to referring to the person the poster is complaining about as 'person'. I do think we'd be quick to challenge someone who started directly talking about 'bitches' and so on, though.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:38 / 05.03.08

This isn't a woman-hating thing, Haus.

Indeed. Thus, the rest of my post:

I would probably say no - it's very well-intentioned, and hating women isn't a very well-intentioned thing to do. Does Barbelith, however, uncritically take the side of members? Often, yes. Does it have a limited skill-set in doing so, and does this support often therefore take the form of telling the complainer that the complainee is evil, manipulative, worthless, immature and so forth? That it do, gammer, that it do.

Does it happen that a majority of people vocally unlucky in love on Barbelith are male and heterosexual? Well, yes, it does seem so. As a result of which, a lot of the dissing tends to attach to women, and often as a result of our constituency young or emotionally fragile women, which emotional fragility is acceptable in the person who is complaining about them, or indeed in the person being complained about when it was part of a setup that involved the complainer getting together with them. It doesn't seem, all round, very salubrious.

All Acting Regiment

14:44 / 05.03.08

This is about people who don't take responsibility in relationships and point fingers.

But conceivably, a poster who comes here pissed off might actually be, you know, the bad guy. I'm not saying ABB is, and I don't like to rot his 'place to vent', but you can see how it could be a bad situation if A. Poster is exceptionally nasty to his girlfriend, then comes here and says she's been nasty to him, and we all come along and say things like 'She needs to take more responsibility, she's not treating you as an adult should'. We might not neccesarily be meaning anything other than support for someone we've assumed is the victim, but in effect we're doing the opposite, shoring up the agressor.

I suppose the way we could avoid this is to be objective in our responses, but then I'm not sure how I'd feel if I came here pissed off and looking for some kind of sympathetic audience after something really shit happened, only to have people turn round and say 'Ah, but are you sure it's not you who's the bad guy?'

And yet, I suppose, that might be absolutely what I needed to hear ...

Again, we've got no reason at all to think that ABB is any kind of agressor/bad guy.

14:45 / 05.03.08

Haus: Then why bother to bring it up if only to contradict yourself with some contrived verbosity?

14:54 / 05.03.08

...you know, the bad guy.

Well, that goes against my personal belief that a relationship is not a one-way venture. There can't be a "bad guy" short of abuse or out-right deceit, IMO.

I'm not saying ABB is, and I don't like to rot his 'place to vent', but you can see how it could be a bad situation if A. Poster is exceptionally nasty to his girlfriend, then comes here and says she's been nasty to him, and we all come along and say things like 'She needs to take more responsibility, she's not treating you as an adult should'. We might not neccesarily be meaning anything other than support for someone we've assumed is the victim, but in effect we're doing the opposite, shoring up the agressor.

That's a good point, but I tend to take people at face value and work with what they are supplying for background. I don't think anyone is the victim in ABB's situation.

On the flipside of course, why should anyone assume anything other than what is written here? Should I assume that she is the victim? Why would that be any better?

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:10 / 05.03.08

Well, you've assumed: she can't bloody well forgive herself for the way she treated you and so she either avoids you or blames you. Be careful, if she drinks, she'll be texting you, professing her love for you. Just remember, this is not about you, it's all about her. For someone like that, it's all about what they want when they want it.

That doesn't seem like something someone says if they have any maturity about how to behave in a relationship.

None of that is face value, exactly - it's a judgement based on very little evidence about the situation about the personality of one of the people involved. Just as your "contrived verbosity" above suggests that you have not read my post, merely decided to write it off because it was apparently too long for you. Bad form. There's no need to talk about good guys and bad guys here - only useful responses.

This ties in with geek social fallacies, I think - since anything other than the most absolute possible reinforcement, including the active denigration and insulting of the other party, counts as insufficiently supportive in an unsupportive world, the negativity is started early and often. See the post I wrote above.

Unfortunately, this kind of negativity is often not a useful thing for the other person to have - sweets are tasty, but they are not necessarily good for the person being fed them, even if they do take their mind off their stubbed toe. I favour an acknowledgement of the person's own feelings, and commiseration with and engagement with said feelings, rather than a rush to judge the failings of the other party based on extremely limited evidence.

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