BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Jenny Everywhere Clearing House and Update Point

 
  

Page: 1234(5)678910... 16

 
 
Persephone
18:10 / 25.11.03
Prrrobably not, moriarty. However, I do feel that Jenny will fit in fine there. I could do a "skin" on the JE website, though --basically like the one that we have now, only the new links would go to Asteroid M & if Barbelith ever opens up, perhaps we'd have a mix of threads from both places. That would be kind of neat, actually.

Do you have any comments on the latest Jenny comic?
 
 
grant
20:54 / 25.11.03
Pers: we're open. Strangers are reading this *right now*.

Hi!
 
 
Persephone
21:48 / 25.11.03
But still, you have to be registered & logged in to read the board. I don't think that's as open as moriarty wants for this project. Plus I think that Tom said that he may again shut down the board to new registrations --which is his right, certainly.

As for myself, I really only have one concern & that's what goes on the JE website. Links to Barbelith, or links to Asteroid M --which doesn't presently exist-- or both, or neither... it's all the same to me, you know. It's moriarty's call as far as I'm concerned, although I'm sure that he's open to input from everybody.
 
 
moriarty
22:07 / 25.11.03
It would be really nice if at some point in the future we had one really great message board dedicated to the project. However, it goes without saying that no one currently has the time/inclination/knowhow needed to make this happen. And really, that's a-ok. If we can have crazy inter-company crossovers when Asteroid M comes into existance, so be it.
 
 
Tamayyurt
22:14 / 25.11.03
I like the idea of having links to both Barbelith and Asteroid M... but with the 'lith always closing up non-members will never be able to read the threads (or almost never). So what if we just leave the links to Barbelith that are alreay up open, but in the future once Asteriod M has successfully docked with the Jenny site, we only have links to it.

Thoughts?

I wish I could help on the technical end.. but my computer's crap, sorry.
 
 
Persephone
01:03 / 26.11.03
Now previewing "Makeshift Multiverse," by impulsivelad:

 
 
Kit-Cat Club
07:17 / 26.11.03
Just checking in. I have decided *not* to ink this but am doing 'proper' pencil versions - this is taking ruddy ages but I still hope to meet my self-imposed deadline (on the other hand since I have no scanner no one will ever know if I don't, bwa ha h... er, anyone have any ideas on how to solve this little problem?)
 
 
Tamayyurt
12:11 / 26.11.03
Thanks, Persephone... this now has it's own thread.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
14:38 / 26.11.03
Ok, I was just poking around the D+Q site and I noticed this. I don't know if anyone's seen it before... but I thought I should at least mention it in case they hadn't. This seemed like the most current thread:



That is a tiny framed Jenny, just above the drawing board right? Made me smile, anyway!
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
14:44 / 26.11.03
Duh! I should have realised that wouldn't work. Anyway, it's in the "artists" section of the site, on Adrian Tomine's or Chester Brown's section (the background chages, you see).

Aside from my Jenny related coinceidence/someone probably saw it before me/nothing interesting discovery: Wouldn't you just love to have a drawing board set up like one of the pictures here? They're so oraganised and pretty... I'm stuck at the kitchen table. Having moved up from a garden table that was in our lounge. And everything still looks like it just exploded out of my brain.
 
 
grant
17:48 / 26.11.03
Wow. That Makeshift Multiverse *rocks*.

I've been thinking about superhero Jenny stories. That one is kewl.
 
 
moriarty
17:58 / 26.11.03
Suedehead, there's a "2" at the end of your link. The address worked fine for me after I deleted the "2".

OK, here's a confession. I've been avoiding commenting on Jenny stories because I feel as if I'm a little too close to the whole thing. I doubt anyone else would even think like that, but I get a weird, guilty feeling everytime I think about making comments and/or criticisms. Also, i don't want anyone thinking that the guy who helped start the thing is hanging over their shoulder looking on disapprovingly.

If I did comment, would anyone think of me as anything other then just another reader, or would I have the stink of creator/editor hovering around me? I'd hate to unknowingly kill someone's creativity, but I'd like to post helpful comments if I could.
 
 
Persephone
19:46 / 26.11.03
I can't think of anything crappier than you wanting to talk about the Shifter & feeling that you shouldn't say anything. Perhaps this can be solved by you having an "editor hat," which you could clap firmly on your head when you have editorial things to say. And if you don't have your editor hat on, then we will know that you are just being a regular guy. Do you want me to put on a webmaster hat, so you're not the only one wearing a hat?
 
 
Tamayyurt
19:49 / 26.11.03
Moriarty- Dude, don't hold back on my account. Even though from the tone of your post I can kinda tell your comments are going to be negative (gulp) just let me have it... it'll only make me a better writer.

Now, if you're going to mention the lettering let me just save you the trouble and say that I know they suck... I've been having bad luck with lettering and I can't really do much about that... but if your comments are about the story. Let me have it.

grant- Thanks. Yeah, I really wanted to do something a little more superheroy.
 
 
moriarty
21:08 / 26.11.03
Hats!

Imp, it's not you, it's me. This is something that's been brewing for awhile. Maybe I'll resurrect old threads and give them a go.

And don't think that you can head off any insane rants on lettering that I might make by pointing them out first.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
21:33 / 26.11.03
But can you tell me where to get one of those special (Ames, is it?) lettering tools that Jessica Abel goes on about in her "how to draw comics" section on her site?

I would link, but I'd fail.
 
 
moriarty
01:16 / 27.11.03
I bought my Ames guide at the local art supply shop. They're nice, but not essential if all you're doing is having fun with your comics.

I haven't lettered in over a year, and even then I wasn't particularly good at it, so some of the things that bother me are mistakes that I make myself. There are exceptions to the rule, of course, and this is just my opinion. Hopefully other people with more experience can step in and straighten me out.

My biggest pet peeve with some of the lettering in a few of the Jenny stories is when it gets larger or smaller for no reason other then to make the dialogue fit. Also, the balloons are often placed in such a way that you can't tell which order they go in, and sometimes who is saying the dialogue. Both the writer and artist (and if there's a third person involved, letterer) should always think of the amount of space and positions the lettering will take before getting too far in. Writers should be open enough to an artist's input to allow dialogue to be pared down or taken out altogether if it's too lengthy and/or unnecessary, increase or decrease panel sizes, split single panels into multiple panels and shift dialogue around, or anything else that will make a pleasing layout that isn't crowded or confusing.

The following is good advice for the artists from Dave Sim's Notes from the President, and is reprinted in his Cerebus Guide to Self Publishing, which is almost indispensible if you're considering advancing in creating your own comics.

"One of the most common mistakes I see in the samples that are sent to me, or which artists show me at signings and conventions involves layout and lettering. Put very simply, nothing looks more amateurish than lettering which butts up against the border of a word balloon or a caption. Usually this is a result of putting the word balloons in after the pencilling stage and the lettering after the word balloons. The lettering can't 'breathe' that way and the result is story-telling that is very hard on the eyes. It is for this reason that I recommend that everything be put on the page at the outset; you have to do very light pencil roughs of the drawings, you have to letter the dialogue and caption approximately the size that they are going to be in the finished work and you have to put in the balloons and the caption boxes making sure to leave space between the lettering and the balloons or caption boxes. The more space the better. It you rough in all of the elements at the same time, you can adjust the 'balance' with a minimum of fuss and muss. If you tight pencil a figure, labouring over it for an hour or two and then try to fit the balloons and lettering around it, it's going to look too crowded. It you do a quick stick figure and then rough in the dialogue and put a nice balloon with breathing room for the lettering and the whole thing doesn't 'fit', you can trim back on the dialogue, or change the position of the figure without having to erase a few hours work to do so. It's words and pictures together, folks. The words have to look as if they were meant to be there all along or they are going to look like a sloppy after-thought."

Italics mine.

Crack out copies of your favourite comics and examine the lettering. Don't just look at the real fancy stuff (like Sim's, Eisner's or Kelly's), but find good old-fashioned stantardized lettering. Walk before you run. Some Claremont-era X-Men comics will do. How much space is between lines of lettering (it's been awhile, but I think it's usually about one-half the height of the letters. Speaking of which, don't measure by size, measure by proportion)? How much space from the letters to the edge of the word balloon? How many letters make it across before they start a new sentence? How much space is there between letters (I find that they're usually much closer then we think, and yet, even though there's barely any space between letters, or words, they still read well)? How much space between the edge of the word balloon and the edge of the panel?

Don't just settle on one sample of lettering. Develop a critical eye. Ask yourself what kind of lettering will suit your story. Play around. Fill pages and pages with lettering. You don't have to devote your life to it, but get a good grip on what you're doing and what looks pleasing.

Keep in mind that different companies from different eras sometimes place restrictions on their letterers. According to this very interesting discussion on the current state of lettering, Nu-Marvel has a lowercase policy in effect.

For goodness' sake, please test out your lettering before committing. Draw up a very rough sample page, shrink it down to the size that you want via photocopier or scanner (or, if you plan on putting it on the site, to the size that it will appear on the screen) and see if it's legible. If not, try again. If you are studying other letterers, enlarge their page to the size you're working at and study it from that point of view. Again, keep in mind just how small your own work may become, though in most cases good lettering will be readable even if its shrunk down quite a bit.

My nickname among my friends is the Puritan, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that I dislike computer lettering. I'm not saying that everyone should hand letter, but I do feel that even ugly (but legible)hand lettering is less intrusive. Obviously you should do what you feel is in your best interest. If your lettering is not legible and you don't have the time or inclination to improve it, fine. Even the ugliest computer lettering is better then being unreadable. But all of the above applies to any kind of lettering you choose to do.

Lettering is an unsung art, which is why so many choose to hack it. With few exceptions, the purpose of good lettering is to go unnoticed and fit in with the art. Bad lettering sticks out, and diminishes the entire comic.
 
 
moriarty
22:23 / 28.11.03
I have decided to veto the story NY Chaos from the Jenny Everywhere site. I've given this a great deal of thought over the past week. The Dadaist has been informed, but I believe a public statement is also required.

My basic editorial policy is that, even if I disagree with the sentiments expressed in a particular story, if it's told with some degree of intelligence and/or passion then I will put my personal feelings aside and put it on the site. I believe that the more complex the issue addressed, the more thought and planning has to go into the story to make it work.

No character, no matter how adaptable, is necessarily appropriate for every kind of story. Though Jenny can be showcased in stories with serious intent, she was primarily conceived to be a pulp adventure character. This isn't to say that Jenny cannot be used effectively in such a story, but again, care must be taken. Personally, I have thought of many stories that, upon reflection, I realized would be better presented outside of the Jenny Everywhere project. To shoehorn Jenny into a story would only diminish both the story and the character.

It is true that Jenny has acted in a wide range of diferent attitudes in the stories showcased so far, often at odds from the description originally given to her. At times she has committed acts that could be seen as unnecessarily violent, bullying or out-of-character. While such incidents have made me cringe, at the very least these episodes provided motivation, challenges, and at times, consequences for the character. None of these things were present in NY Chaos.

Though it was hardly the only reason why I vetoed the story, the part that tipped the scales for me was the cold-blooded murder that ended the piece. I could not envision seeing Jenny murder innocent people and chuckle about it. That kind of Steven Seagal-style machismo just seems out of place, no matter what kind of motivation she may (or may not) have.

Like I said in the beginning of my post, this was not an easy decision to make. Though I hope that I never have to make a similar decision again, I know that this will probably not be the case. The creators are welcome to resubmit this story, or submit a new one, as well as take NY Chaos as it is and present it elsewhere.
 
 
moriarty
23:06 / 28.11.03
Sorry for posting three times in a row.

There are two minor complaints I have with the way Jenny's sci-fi elements have been presented. The first is the idea that the different Jennys on multiple worlds would have major differences in their personalities based on their environment. The second is that Jenny actually travels between dimensions, as opposed to existing in them all at the same time. Jenny isn't just aware that she lives in different worlds (like the Supermen of Earth-1 and Earth-2, say), but she is actually the same person spread out among those universes. There is only one Jenny. She's just multi-tasking. That doesn't mean that she isn't adaptable to her environment, or cannot make personal decisions based upon factors in that environment, but her basic core personality remains the same.

This is different from creating alternate versions of the character like Elseworlds or having her actually bouncing from dimension to dimension like Dr. Who. Any mark a creator wants to make on Jenny's personality should be subtle. After all, even a "normal" person has a great deal of depth that can be explored. If anything, even if you don't add your own take on Jenny, you can develop your own world and cast of characters, while adding to a large, rambling epic adventure.

I'm sorry to toot my own horn here, but even though I'm largely unaware of science-fiction conventions, I can't think of many other stories or characters that have these specific takes on the concept of multiple dimensions. Offering shocking alternate takes on Jenny, or simply having her teleport, seems like missed opportunities.

This is all personal opnion, of course. Grant disagrees with me on the travelling through dimensions thing, for instance. None of these things would contribute to a stroy being denied a spot on the site. I just had to say my piece.
 
 
Tamayyurt
03:50 / 29.11.03
I also disagree (obviously). The fact that Jenny exists in multiple dimensions and is aware of all her selves does not a Shifter make... for her to actually be "AKA The Shifter" she has to actually shift between dimensions and that involves travel. It's inherent in the name. And if she travels she can therefor meet her other selves.

Also, if you forget the name... How could the Jenny living in a horrid universe where the Nazi's won World War II and have pretty much killed off most non-white people be/feel/think the same as the happy go lucky Jenny that lives in Right On? She'd have to be a raving lunatic.

But we're all entitled to our opinion.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:39 / 29.11.03
Moriarity, for what it's worth, I agree with your decision to veto the NY Chaos story, for all the reasons you provided. And I say you're definitely entitled to have an 'editor hat' and should feel free to voice your views on Jenny stuff, be they praise or criticism.

As for the lettering, I'm proud to say that I'm drawing -- and hand-lettering -- a story Imp wrote, and I feel my lettering won't fall into all the assorted traps you're commenting on. I pay a lot of attention to the lettering and to the visual balance of it all, so I feel good about it and I don't think it'll be a problem at all. I did my own comics (never published, just for fun and given out to friends) for about 7 years from 7th grade to my first year of collge and always paid careful attention to (and took joy in, actually) the lettering. Although I haven't shrunk it to scanner-size, I'll do so next week and check it out, though I feel like I already know it'll fit the bill just fine. And I agree; I like hand-lettering too

I would say that it's ok for Jenny to meet other selves and for those other selves to have slightly different personalities and such. But, as you said, what matters most is the story and if it's a well-constructed story, with character, motivation, obstacles, reasons, etc. Anyway, that's my two cents.
 
 
The Dadaist
02:00 / 01.12.03
Moriarty- YOU don´t understand the motivation of MY Jenny. For me is pretty simple.

Kisses,
The Dadaist.
 
 
The Dadaist
05:04 / 01.12.03
I put this in the comic forum too:


The idea with Andrés was to do the shortest comic because it was our first work together.
I ´ll prove that my 6-page comic is, in fact, more complex than what it seems (sorry my english, again):

The title: a reference to NYC (New York City). New York Chaos.....well....you know...CHAOS...the bomb, Horus, etc.

Page 1 & 2: The real Statue and Jenny dressed like the statue: Macrocosm/Microcosm (also note that Jenny is holding a device to smoke pot...she fills her lungs/interior with smoke, a bomb connotation).

Horus: I think all the people here know Horus, the violent and creative god of the new aeon. The Statue represents the old times and Horus the future. It´s all simbolic."...and from Horus, the bomb".

Page 4, last panel: Fascist president Bush hits the petrol tower. Microcosm/Macrocosm, again. A small structure fall, then a big structure fall.

Page 5, last panel: "Lady Liberty, I´m Lady Chaos and I´m here to replace you". Jenny like the representation of Horus, the chaos. Replace one simbol with another. Another dualistic confrontation.

The agents, last page: Human sacrifice.

For me, there are a lot of things in a very very short comic. And of course, the political point (indivisible of the magickal point).
 
 
The Dadaist
05:40 / 01.12.03
Ah....I forgot:
Page 1 & 2: The desacralization (I hope that this word is right!)of the components of the Statue: the torch/the pipe, the book/the Crowley´s book and the speech in the first page/the speech in the second page. Also Crowley is related with Horus and the stuff that I said above.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
08:31 / 01.12.03
... How could the Jenny living in a horrid universe where the Nazi's won World War II and have pretty much killed off most non-white people be/feel/think the same as the happy go lucky Jenny that lives in Right On?

I think the point is that you take a woman from the same starting point, someone who basically would always have the same reactions to things and build from there. So she's the same Jenny living in that horrible universe as the woman living in Right On but each has been shaped differently by their immediate environments.

Dadaist- if you're going to place that kind of reference in a script it needs to have some kind of connection to the story in order to be recognised. Calling something New York Chaos is hardly significantly going to point out the secondary points in the script and the truth is that these points are secondary. Reference does not make the story. Go back, think about the point you're trying to make and get it clear in the script. If she's trying to bring in the age of horus or whathaveyou than that must be distinctly presented in the story.

I'm a bit weirded out by the veto. I'm not necessarily criticising it but... this is an open source character. She's been opened to the public, that doesn't necessarily mean that all of the stories should be displayed in one place at all but I'm not certain that this isn't about two clashing cultures (what would be deemed insensitive in one culture is heroic in another) and a language barrier when you really get down to it. The position of the terrorist can't be ignored but then the position is never made certain. Is a badly constructed story a reason to leave something out, I happen to be of the opinion that this isn't the first Jenny script that's been put together terribly just that this also deals with a difficult issue. I'm also not sure that's a reason to veto a story when you've let the idea of this character loose. She's copyright free and sometimes we're all going to dislike her because of it. This is at least the second time I've really disliked her.
 
 
Sax
09:49 / 01.12.03
I must admit I'm not entirely comfortable with a Jenny strip being "vetoed" from the website. Having thought about this and read it again, as well as the Dadaist's comments, I'm still of the same mind that I don't really think it's the best Jenny strip ever. What the Dadaist has said about the influences and his own background is interesting, but that doesn't come through in the strip, and as such it doesn't mean anything. The writing needs to reflect the Dadaist's anger at the US state and its behaviour to people in South and Central America, rather than just a rather shallow snapshot of Jenny and a bunch of geeks blowing up the Statue of Liberty for no apparent reason. The reader shouldn't have to know of the writer's background to "get" or enjoy the story.
 
 
grant
11:38 / 01.12.03
I started a thread on Jenny as a character over hither, just to keep this one more update-oriented.

I'd like to see the NY Chaos story with two extra caption boxes about Horus and the beauty of destruction.
 
 
_Boboss
12:09 / 01.12.03
censorship already? wow, didn't take long.
 
 
bjacques
12:18 / 01.12.03
I'm surprised you guys didn't at least give The Dadaist a chance to rework the story before turning it down.

I thought it might have worked in the manner of V (for Vendetta) blowing up the Lady Justice statue, putting a much-abused symbol out of its misery, the French regretting a gift whose recipients no longer deserve it, or Lady Liberty committing honorable suicide. Different motivations (and maybe trite at that). But the U.S. would have to be really messed up to require a final symbolic destruction; Nixon was arguably worse, but we survived him. The Dadaist would have to load the provocative story down with a lot of explanations that the audience might reject anyway; is it worth the effort?

The story should entertain a general, literate audience, with the magickal symbolism a bonus for those who understand it. Nobody's going to understand why the Secret Service guys have to get killed, and I thought human sacrifice (if any) in chaos magick was only symbolic anyway.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:04 / 01.12.03
>> I'm surprised you guys didn't at least give The Dadaist a chance to rework the story before turning it down.

In an above response, Morarity wrote:

>> The creators are welcome to resubmit this story, or submit a new one, as well as take NY Chaos as it is and present it elsewhere.

That seems me to be the same thing to me as having another (even multiple chances) to rework/resubmit the story. But I see both sides of the points on here (the most compelling being how can you censor an open source character). Hmmm.....
 
 
moriarty
14:46 / 01.12.03
Tryphena Sparks, I'll get to your first paragraph in Grant's thread at a later date, along with all the other discussion on character that don't pertain to this particular case. And I'll be leaving my editor hat at home.

"I'm a bit weirded out by the veto."

I'm probably more weirded out then anyone, but I'm even more weirded out by the idea of putting it on the site as is.

"I'd like to see the NY Chaos story with two extra caption boxes about Horus and the beauty of destruction."

I'd like to see something, but The Dadaist hasn't responded to my requests, which is his right. I also understand completely if The Dadaist does not wish or feel the need to tamper any further with his story. Tryphena, Sax, bjaques, and many others earlier in the thread have all made interesting suggestions. I've thought of a half-dozen myself. In no way am I editorially against the central idea of the story, it's just the execution that I find lacking.

censorship already? wow, didn't take long.

One of the considerations I had when thinking about the veto was what other publications might do in the event that they received something that didn't fit as is. Is there a difference between censorship and rejection? Do book or comic companies censor you when they reject a manuscript? Could be. I never quite got the hang of the word "censorship". If anything, one of the differences between Jenny and a character owned by another company or individual is that if a story doesn't make it into the site, it can still legally be kicked around to other places [Granted, even characters owned by a company or individual can and have been appropriated without permission (ex. most fan fiction, slash), but not without the risk of legal action].

Two examples from personal experience. I had a friend that printed up a mini-comic and took it to shops around town. The local comic store refused to carry it. My friend called a boycott on the grounds of censorship. Also, when the Barbelith zine was up and running, I sent in a contribution that was rejected (censored?). Afterward, I pitched two more ideas that were approved (neither of them were ever finished).

From the Jenny FAQ.

Am I guaranteed a spot in your website and/or publication?
No.

I don't know how much more simple to make it. The Jenny Everywhere Project and the Jenny Everywhere website are two completely different entities. They always have been, and have never been portrayed by me as anything different. This has been brought up again and again, and no one has raised an objection until now. For the Project aspect, you can do whatever you want free of any and all censorship or editorial dictates. For the other, you have to run it by the editor/censor, me. The site is privately owned and operated. I will never tamper with someone's work without permission. Creators are free to take their comics off the site for whatever reason at any time. We may currently have a monopoly on Jenny Everywhere sites, but since she is public domain, that does not have to always be the case. Anyone is free to create a Jenny site or publication of any other kind, with whatever restrictions or lack thereof that they desire.

"I'm surprised you guys didn't at least give The Dadaist a chance to rework the story before turning it down."

I wrote The Dadaist days before making the announcement on the board. I offered the chance for him to rework the story. The next time I heard from him was in this thread. The option is still, and always will be, available to him.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Hunterwolf. And Tryphena Sparks, I'll get to your other points after I've had some time to get some sleep and think them over.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:11 / 01.12.03
I must say, your views on this subject make a lot of sense to me, moriarity. Your opinions are well-reasoned and well-presented. You're not saying the Dadaist's story can't be a Jenny story or can't appear anywhere AS a Jenny story. You're just saying you don't approve it for the Jenny site. But it can be a Jenny story and it can go anywhere else.

I also agree with moriarity's point that there's nothing flawed in the idea of the subversive NYChaos Jenny story. While the Dadaist has made good points about what went into the story, I agree with the view that it doesn't show in the story, in addition to characterization, motivation, etc. But I'm not meaning to just slam the story outright, far from it. Anyway, I've said my piece.
 
 
Tamayyurt
19:01 / 01.12.03
I've also asked the Dadaist if he was interested in fleshing out his story. He said no. He doesn't see the need to.

And yeah, I wouldn't exactly call this censorship ... it definitely more like a rejection. I still would like to see a more expanded version of this on the site one day (soon).
 
 
The Dadaist
20:09 / 01.12.03
Why a reason to blow the Statue? I don´t need a reason/motivation in the story.

YOU need a reason, I don´t.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:48 / 01.12.03
Oh, for the love of Jenny....

As far as I can tell, Mor, the best and only reason to "censor" the Dadaist's story is because it does not meet the standards you want on your website. That is, that you do not want somebody coming to your website, looking at the strip and thinking "Ah. Jenny Everywhere is a bit poor. Not interested." If you want to discriminate on other grounds, it's your website and your choice, but the valid criterion is not because it is not "explained" in line with your idea of the character, but because it is not good and you do not want your site associated with bad work. Otherwise you just send out invitations for middle-class kids to go, "Ah...see how the censorship begins. Thank God my job in the media clues me in to this thoughtcrime, and I can battle such evil with my portentous voice."

AFAIAC, the argument against this strip is simply that it is not very good. It's a personal judgement, but one which is probably as good a yardstick as any to decide whether something should go on a website which, as Moriarty said, does not guarantee publication. The original strip had no character development, nothing very interesting going on in the action and, tellingly, no real reason for Jenny Everywhere to be there except as a way to fulfil the author's desires. The subsequent justification displayed some objective correlatives and a bit of magick that anyone reading the story could easily have picked up and been unconvinced by, which is the way of things. If it isn't in the text, it is not wildly valid. If it is in the text it may be valid, but it doesn't make it interesting.

Take as a contrast Nelson and Flyboy's story where in a sense Jenny is also a fantasy figure, occupying a fantasy world, but in a way that provides some sort of sense of milieu and context, in which Jenny acts and interacts. It isn't perfect, but it is interesting.

So, Moriarty's argument - Though Jenny can be showcased in stories with serious intent, she was primarily conceived to be a pulp adventure character is a crappy argument, speaking of a limited vision. In what sense, exactly, was Jenny so conceived? Which rulebook demands it? The Dadaist, however, is taking the oppressed artist route with a poor piece of storytelling, which it is easier to champion than to better.

Moriarty, keep the story off your site because you don't like it. Say that. Own up to being able not to like other people's work even if they are on Barbelith, not because it betrays some spunk-sticky ideal of the character, but because it is badly imagined and badly expressed.

Dadaist, stop mithering about how misunderstood you are and write better comics.

I don't really see what the controversy is.
 
  

Page: 1234(5)678910... 16

 
  
Add Your Reply