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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men #146 (SPOILERS)

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Matthew Fluxington

17:07 / 12.09.03

How do you define evil?

Magneto's killed thousands of people. Whether they are casaulties of his 'war' or just people who've gotten in his way, he's carelessly killed people throughout his adult life. He has very little regard for life, though he does give lip service to creating a better world for mutants. Magneto sees no problem with murdering humans. He thinks nothing of placing the entire planet at serious risk. He's a liar and a thief. He's selfish and vain. He's cruel.

Do you really think that's not evil? He has redeemable qualities and noble goals, but his ethics and morality are definitely evil.

One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist, I suppose.

17:18 / 12.09.03

Magneto's killed thousands of people.

Has he? Unless he masterminded Genosha, wasn't his biggest crime sinking the Russian sub back during the second Cockrum run? That's what he was put on trial for, anyway. I can't ever recall Magneto being a mass-murderer. His encounters with the X-Men are very personal.

17:29 / 12.09.03

HANK's Injection:
I'm guessing that Hank DID inject charles with Nanosentinals as it would be the opposite action to removing them from Cassandra's body. This was the course of action cassandra had anticipated Hank would do. I figure that gamble was that they would infect charles' body making it inhospitable for the cassandra consciousness... at the same time XORN would atempt to "cure" said body from the Possesion.

All efforts where devoted towards getting the Cassandra consciousness out of the Charles body. This failed but created the set-up for Cassandra to use Cerebra to to "find" the charles consciousness.

Nano Sentinals:
I figure they where flying around everywhere on the campus.

Weren't they around Pre-Morrison... there was that guy Baston and the whole Zero Tolerance storyline that used Nanotechnology+Sentinals. I figure this was offered to Cassandra by the Weapon Plus program (Unsure of Xorneto's behind weapon plus).

Genosha
Cassandra does her thing with the Wild sentinals and attacks Genosha. I don't think magneto "planed" for this but took the opportunity to "die." Consider that Charles was using Crebro during the attack and "felt" magneto's death... presumably noticing his disappearance from the psych-scape. Not long after XORN surfaces...

Keith, like a scientist

17:38 / 12.09.03

now, i'm dying to see some previews for #147! it comes out in 2 weeks, and there doesn't appear to be anything out there yet...

but we have covers and solicitations for the next 3 or 4 issues...i guess this was on purpose.

18:46 / 12.09.03

This guy seems to think Magneto has Bi-Polar disorder.

magneto

20:33 / 12.09.03

Interesting to note that in Grant's original proposal reprinted in the back of the first NXM trade, there is mention of "Experiment X" (now known as Xorn), and the discovery of his true identity which kicks off the "ultimate Magneto story." The same passage in the hardcover edition has a big black "CENSORED" stamp over it.

So he really did have this planned from the very start...

00:49 / 13.09.03

What if Beast is the traitor? What if he's working with Magneto, injecting nano-sentinels and supplying the Kick himself? He's a genius and intimately knowledgable of genetic superpowers and aware of the world in and out of Xavier/Magneto "mutant vs. human" scope. What if HE's the third superpower we should be watching? What if HE's triple-crossing them all?

01:34 / 13.09.03

Hunterwolf wrote " Although I was upset that in the page with Emma and Beast on the jet talking, Jimenez never showed Emma once. I had to go back and check to make sure that's who went with Hank on the jet to go fetch Scott. Was this an artistic choice or just clumsy weirdness?"

this bothered me too so i had a look at the panel this morning. Emma is actually sitting right behind Beast, obscured by the dialogue balloon, which means there is a third person in the jet. who is it? (or is it a stuff up in the use of the dialogue balloon?) - i'm thinking the composition was deliberate - the wild card - the third man (ah the anton karas zither theme has just tuned in)
another question relating to cassandra - has magneto dabbled in cloning before? that whole joseph storyline- was that clone created by mr sinister or mags - sorry i forget - who else but mags would know so much about about xavier's life, so who else could create a plausible clone of xavier as his own sister, which even charles doesn't question - sorry this reminds me of a scifi story i heard about a timetraveller who clones himself and by the end of the story there are so many versions of himself through time that his mother and father are actually clones of him giving birth to himself - does anyone know this story and who the author is? again i forget.
great xmen story though - we all get swept along, some of us hate the magneto is xorn end of the issue (just like people hated the comic book ending in matrix2) and then others go leafing back through old issues like medieval monks preaching the latest interpretations on the why and how - it's great to see us all so involved in the fiction - no wonder grant is so interested in scripting computer games with it's online potential - so the phoenix will play a big part because if jean's death made such an emotional impact on grant before why not share that emotion again - hell he wants to share his filth

02:29 / 13.09.03

fucking grant fucking wank fucking morrison, grumble, bitch, moan...

02:49 / 13.09.03

I like Grant Morrison. He's my favorite comic book writer.

06:45 / 13.09.03

Here is my review of this issue, which I actually spoke aloud as I read it five minutes ago:

Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. *Chuckle* Oh, hell no. No way. Aw, fuck, it's MAGNETO! DAMN!!

This came as a shock, since I've studiously avoided any conversation on this issue, here or anywhere, and had no idea this was rumored to happen.

So, it looks like Magneto was behind the destruction of Genosha... that rat bastard. He had to be behind it, he was sitting in the middle of the city when it was destroyed. I did wonder why the man didn't lift a finger against the mega-sentinals, and now we know.

All of Xorn's healing has been using nano-machines in some way. Ingenious. And now it's obvious. Damn!! Hell, during the last arc I thought "hmm, that looks like Asteroid M kinda, but couldn't be.." Damn!!

Well, Grant came through on his ultimate Magneto story. I figured he meant ultimate to mean last, since Magneto died. As it turns out, the whole damn run has been a Magneto story. Damn!

Sorry to ramble, but (Damn!) I've just been mind-fucked here, have some sympathy for the afflicted.

08:00 / 13.09.03

After a bit more reflection...

I still have a feeling that this will be the ultimate Magneto story. He's really gone too far this time to be left alive. Sure, he's gone too far many times in the past, but this time he's REALLY GONE TOO FUCKING FAR. He masterminded the murder of sixteen million mutants in order to start a war with humanity. I didn't read any of the issues before Morrison started, but I got the feeling that Genosha was mostly full of mutants without powers suited for fighting. It makes sense that Magneto would sacrifice them, leaving the strong to fight; giving the strong a motivation to fight.

As for humanity dying in a few generations, is this really true? Magneto may have planted that idea in order to goad humanity into fighting as well. Who actually discovered this genetic trigger? Henry McCoy seemed to see it... interesting that Hank seems to de-evolve... his role in the grand sceme is unclear.

Also, it seems likely that Magnus has been controlling Martha the whole time. Maybe she always controlled Sublime, meaning Sublime was ultimately controlled by Magneto. Are the U-Men just another goad to war created by Mags? And did Martha then exert a subtle control over everyone in the Mansion?

Perhaps all the mentioning of En Sabah Nur has been because Magneto has taken his place. If Apocalypse originated Weapon Plus (which Magneto has secretly controlled for years) and wanted only strong mutants to survive (which Magneto helped along by killing 16 million weaklings) to ultimately wage war on flatscans and subjugate them (which Magneto has clearly been working toward, except to exterminate, not rule).... then there is a new Apocalypse personified.

One other thing: Marvel needs to print up some of those "Magneto was right" T-shirts, like the one Quentin wore.

10:23 / 13.09.03

I am a bit gutted, as I only buy the trades I decided to have a quick peak in #146 to see what was going on, an ruined the whole surprise, but nevermind. I think Grant has crafted a very clever story that has stil got 4 issues to go to shock even more. I did think it was cool that he killed Magneto, and I would have liked him to stay that way. But I can imagine Marvel not swallowing that, and kind of twisting his arm to bring him back. As for a Cassandra Nova / Magneto connection, I think she would have been too powerful for him to control, I guess he used the Genosha massacre to enact his plan to further his war against mankind.

Matthew Fluxington

13:44 / 13.09.03

Lawrence -

Has he? Unless he masterminded Genosha, wasn't his biggest crime sinking the Russian sub back during the second Cockrum run? That's what he was put on trial for, anyway. I can't ever recall Magneto being a mass-murderer. His encounters with the X-Men are very personal.

Not since Claremont left. Between the original Claremont run and Grant's revival, Magneto did lots of sick stuff. Those may not be very good comics, and they may not have been true to Claremont's vision of the character, but they remain part of continuity. Whether he's doing things that hurt/kill on a massive scale, or murdering a single person, he has very little regard for human life. That much is established.

C'mon. Beast is no villain!

Just a reminder: Marvel didn't 'twist Grant's arm' to bring back Magneto. This was Grant's masterplan all along.

13:54 / 13.09.03

Remember that Alan Davis story with Magneto almost fucking up the worlds axis, but other than that Flux? Maybe when he mind fucked Gambit over the Mutant Massacre crap, but that wasn't on the same level as being a "mass murderer".... he's never done too much over the top, really... just made threats and been maniacal.

GO ahead and point out my failings... I'm sre there are some.... :P

13:56 / 13.09.03

I think the Ultimate Magneto is more true to what u are thinking.

14:00 / 13.09.03

How did Xorneto make Sooroya blow up Cerebra? And don't tell me there's metal in her living sand. Though I guess that could work too.

Or was she totally on Xorneto's side and only pretended to be frail, helpless, and wanting to resist and fight against Xorneto?

14:35 / 13.09.03

Between the original Claremont run and Grant's revival, Magneto did lots of sick stuff.

But where was he a mass-murderer? I still don't see it. Fatal Attractions and Eve of Destruction were personal, and the Magneto War didn't involve any actual death that I recall. Outside of the submarine and the X-Men, what has he actually done? Maybe there's "Magneto confusion" because of the films, cartoons and Ultimate series.

How did Xorneto make Sooroya blow up Cerebra?

I don't think he did. In 146 he is presumably laying it out on the line, and she flips and tries to make a run to the professor for help. But in her blind panic she accidentally destroys Cerebra ... the panel where she reforms enough for Charles to read her mind suggests she's not on Magneto's side.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

14:40 / 13.09.03

In Fatal Attraction he killed thousands of people with a global EMP shockwave. And he was going to start a war in Eve of Destruction, it wasn't "personal". But fuck 90's continuity.

14:58 / 13.09.03

Fatal Attraction he killed thousands of people with a global EMP shockwave.

Fuck, really? It's too painful to read those again.

And he was going to start a war in Eve of Destruction, it wasn't "personal".

What about the whole Charles thing?

I like that Claremont tried to do this all before in NXM 3...

15:40 / 13.09.03

I'd love to try to examine my idea that Beast might be working with Magneto AND Xavier to suit ulterior motives, but I don't have anything but 146 in front of me. The rest of my books are packed away.

But Beast IS an unaccounted element in this game. Look at the arguement we had a couple clicks ago about how he infected Charles/Cassandra with bad nano-sentinels for Xorn to "heal" with? Kick is immediately identified by him, and Tattoo smells it in the "secret X-Labs". We speculated at the time that it was residual evidence being examined by Beast —but it's a compound that reacts specifically with mutant genomes. Charles wouldn't make it on principal, and Magneto doesn't want rivals. Who besides Henry has expertise? Moira? Sure Beak ratted out selling Kick to Beast, but that was dropped when mention of who killed Emma was said. And he's the significant player when Emma says there's a traitor in the mansion. "Tell him he's nuts." Beast exhibits no shock, and asks why a traitor would be out over the ocean to save them. To get the three of them out of the why while Xavier and Magneto kill themselves.

I think it fits his character in this story. He knows exactly how to move around in the human/mutant culture blend, and actively subverts social memes by announcing he's gay and sticking to it. His relationship with Trish fits in to his emotional rationality for his traitorous activities. He KNOWS human and mutant can't survive together because of too much bullshit between them, mostly due to the activities of Magneto. And he's always known Magneto, as long as he's known Xavier. Beast probably regards Magneto just another teacher. X vs M is about old G vs E brutality. Beast wants the world to get on with growing up, so he and the rest of everyone can stop being a freak... and that means eliminating immensley powerful mutants with gradiose ideas of what "mutantkind" can be. Beast doesn't see things that way... he's a superstrong mutant -a dime a dozen. He knows the real power's telepathy.

I bet halfway through this storyline some mysterious entity drops Kick into the school vents, accelerating BOTH Xavier and Magneto into a battle neither can contain and amping the kids into actual contenders.

Matthew Fluxington

15:50 / 13.09.03

Dude, I'll bet you any ammount of money that you're wrong about Beast. I need the cash, honestly.

As per usual, I am soooooo glad that Chesed is not writing this comic.

Does it make much difference if Magneto murders thousands, hundreds, or dozens of people? The point is that he's a murderer, and there's plenty of evidence to support that in whatever continuity you're reading. That global EMP wave thing was a big deal, and I do recall him making the world stand still during the Magneto War fiasco. He has no regard for life when it doesn't suit his goals. He's a sociopath. I find it somewhat troubling that people are so willing to defend him.

16:01 / 13.09.03

I agree he's a murderer. And I contend that he'll continue to murder and destory and kill until everyone else is dead. He probably got bored with Genosha, and decided to start fresh.

It's only a guess and another thing to think about, Flux. I'd like it to be true, because I think X and M need their hats handed to them.

I also think Jean's gonna "mercilessly" destroy the "Extinction Genome" in humans, meaning humans won't die in three generations, and the human/mutant war will last forever. Without an foreseeable and available end to the "war", neither Xavier or Magneto will serve any purpose -meaning one's a pathetic dreamer and the other's a pathetic killer. All that's left is teaching and education.

16:06 / 13.09.03

Does it make much difference if Magneto murders thousands, hundreds, or dozens of people?

Yes.

The point is that he's a murderer

So are Charles, Logan, Ororo and other X-Men.

He has no regard for life when it doesn't suit his goals.

I don't think this is true - we might more accurately say that he is willing to kill to further his goals. Even in the current NXM storyline we've seen him save lives as Xorn when he had no vested interest in doing so (Lilandra). It's absurd to take into account UXM 150 through NXM 3 and claim that he's a sociopath.

16:14 / 13.09.03

Ok after actually reading the issue a few things have struck me:

Beast = traitor. Soooo unlikely but even I considered it. I can't honestly see any motivation (despite what has been said above). His actions are questionable but his motives seem quite innocent. But then again I think thats what we said about Xorn.

Phoenix knows. In Jean's panel with Xavier she says "You needn't be disheartened. Whatever happens it will be for the best."
Now this is a very suspect thing to say whether its regarding her Phoenix powers or about the subsequent revelations. I think she's known all along and I think she knows she can take Magneto if it came to it.

The artwork/inking/colouring is very poor in places, especially the scene with Dust and the Special Class. Completely below average. Not happy.

The Special Class aren't right at the moment... I don't think Beak would turn against Xavier (or Beast for that matter). There's definitely got to be some double bluffing going on here.

The most important line?

"He's trying to provoke a WAR!"

So he IS playing Weapon Plus off against the Mutants. He's controlling sentinel technology so that Mutants still feel threatened and feeding the worlds governments false information so that they co-operate with the Weapon Plus team.

feints within feints within feints.

Expect a few more suprise revelations before this arc is out.

16:18 / 13.09.03

Well Flux, since you seem to want to delve so deeply into the world of the X-Men with your being "disturbed" over ppls defence of Magneto, perhaps you can outline jsut what side you'd be on if you were a mutant, persecuted relentlessly by humanity? Magnus obviously has issues, I'm not doubting that nor am condoning killing in any respect. But I think he does deserve a defence.

17:02 / 13.09.03

As per usual, I am soooooo glad that Chesed is not writing this comic.

So am I. It wouldn't be fun to read and then I wouldn't be able to come up with those cockamamie theories you love to hate so much. I'm only writing what I'm thinking through in my head. Next month, it'll all be moot and garbage anyway.

And to clarify: I'm not saying Beast is a vilain, I'm saying the potential exists that he sees a bigger picture than Xavier and Magneto. Bigger pictures that don't have a good versus evil.

17:12 / 13.09.03

I bet Magneto could whip his enemies with bike chains without even using his hands, ten at a time. Maybe more.

That's gotta be the coolest power ever. I'm joining his side.

Matthew Fluxington

17:59 / 13.09.03

LL: Some of the X-Men have killed, and Logan seems to do it fairly casually - I'm not defending them, even though they are mostly acting in self-defense when they've killed people. The difference is, they aren't genocidal maniacs like Magneto. Magneto is willing to kill millions of people, wipe out cultures and economies, disrupt the environment of the entire planet. If you're alright with that, fine, we can chalk that up to a difference in morality.

Mike-O - I'd definitely be on the side of the Xavier school. No question about it. I'm all for social integration, and I'm against segregation and genocide. I mean, aren't you?

About Beast: C'mon, kids. Put yr money where yr mouth is. Let's bet on this. I need the cash.

Matthew Fluxington

18:07 / 13.09.03

LL, regardless of how Claremont wrote the character in the 70s and 80s, are you seriously suggesting that Magneto as he's been portrayed in Grant's run so far is not a dangerous sociopath? He's callous, highly manipulative, megalomaniacal, a pathological liar, appears to lack remorse for his past crimes, and willing to attempt to single-handedly create a race war.

Yeah, Magneto's done some good things. But that doesn't change all of the horrible things that he's done and is willing to do.

19:05 / 13.09.03

Yeah, but think of the chains! Why do you think Xorn had them wrapped around his chest?

I'm telling you, that motherfucker is ready to rumble!

00:07 / 14.09.03

are you seriously suggesting that Magneto as he's been portrayed in Grant's run so far is not a dangerous sociopath?

We don't actually know what he's planned yet. A manipulator, yes. But we don't know he's responsible for Genosha. We're not sure he's behind the U-Men (why save the Special Class when their deaths would hasten the war?). He's obviously not a sociopath, because he is aware and respectful of others at times (saving Lilandra). Magneto is willing to kill to further his agenda (but then, so are the X-Men), but he doesn't kill indiscriminately.

Yeah, Magneto's done some good things. But that doesn't change all of the horrible things that he's done and is willing to do.

Why don't you apply this thinking to the X-Men? Charles shot Cassandra and currently employs Mystique. Cyclops murdered Ugly John. Storm would have murdered Calisto if a healer hadn't been present. Colossus had killed in his time. Wolverine would have murdered his own teammate Rachel in cold blood if she hadn't been saved by Spiral. So it's very much a numbers game ... I'd have to check Fatal Attractions to see if the EMP actually kills, but if he wasn't behind Genosha, then Magneto hasn't actually dealt out much death aside from the Leningrad.

00:24 / 14.09.03

Why discount the Leningrad? A mass of people died = mass murderer.

00:29 / 14.09.03

I'm just worried about Emma and her ominous, foreboding feeling - you just "killed" her, Grant - leave Emma ALONE!

00:47 / 14.09.03

Shes about to eat a chain! EAT IT!

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