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New X-Men #146 (SPOILERS)

 
  

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Hieronymus
12:37 / 16.09.03
New X-Men #146: Proof that some folks just HATE to be a sucker, especially those who like to live in denial of the fact that they are reading a popular superhero comic book.

On par logic with that of Matrix Reloaded fans, who posit individuals that didn't like the movie as being persons who obviously "don't get it". C'mon, Flux.

Did Grant lay down some great plug-ins to the Xorn-is-Magneto plot trick? Sure. But there's also sloppy chicanery in there that doesn't fit at all with the final exposition. And for some reason there seems to be a kind of rampant polarization by defenders, who are using from-the-hip explanations for the plot holes.

Understandable given that the arc has only just begun. But for chrissakes, don't cop the condescending attitude when the gripes are justified right now and the jury is still out. Standing on its own and against those previous to it, this issue has a lot to answer for.

Time will tell.
 
 
Spaniel
12:59 / 16.09.03
GM's greatest trick is to give us both an emotionally charged story AND, months later, a new perspective on that issue, one that doesn't necessarily have to change the events depicted rather than our interpretation of those events.


Yes, of course, I think my above post illustrates that I understand this well enough - I've understood it from the get go.

But

All the emotional pay-offs, all the beauty has been detonated by the current twist. It cannot possibly be read in two ways, at least by me, now that the broader context is understood.

Yes, you could argue that all this makes 127(?) fascinating from some theoretical standpoint. Yes, you could use it to hunt for aha-clues. Yes, you could marvel at how it managed to dupe us so fantastically, by insisting that we see things through Xavier's eyes.

Again, but.

I still think it was a cheap and somewhat unnecessary narrative trick. A good writer (which I firmly believe Morrison to be - from time to time) could have come up with any number of devices to have knocked us so far off the scent we'd end upon Pluto. I'm sure he could have presented us with an idyllic (read false) image of Xorn that didn't end up with a once firm, erect issue ending up as a flacid lump.
 
 
Spaniel
13:02 / 16.09.03
And, to reiterate, I really enjoyed the last issue, I even shouted "what the fuck!" with a big grin on my face.
 
 
The Falcon
13:48 / 16.09.03
It's already been established that the skinny arm with the gun was Angel.

No, it hasn't. Look at the end of 'Murder..' again. Of course, she could've flown to the approximate height of 6'2", before wiping Sage's brain, but I doubt it.

It was 127, the Xorn solo ish. Stop pretending you don't know, lads.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
14:10 / 16.09.03
See the 'arm' thing has puzzled me.

It's quite blatantly a small girl's arm, either Esme or Angel. Angel would be obvious as she's there when they go back, looking after her babies.

BUT.

Sage mentions a 6.2" person when her system reboots after Esme's attack. This doesn't make sense unless the artwork is wrong.

I'd be quite happy if it was explained as Angel shooting Sage thus knocking her out and Xorn wiping her hard-drive/memory. But GM's explanations so far don't fit with the visuals.

I also think I'm being ultra anal about this and I can just as happily let it go. Sigh.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:27 / 16.09.03
Charles really is SO DAMN PATRONISING to Dust that perhaps Morrison's idea is to underline the Xavier School of Exceeding Smugness.

This ties in to what is probably my favourite moment of this issue: when Xorneto says "I tried to show her the errors in...". Now the obvious reason why this is good is because you can tell the *exact* moment when he decides "oh fuck it, the game's up, I can't be arsed to pretend anymore". But it seems to be that this can be read as an explicit reference to Xavier's previous behaviour, in the issue in which Dust was introduced. Xorneto's language is highly reminiscent of the way Charles talked after he'd basically mind-wiped some terrorists - "I explained some of the destructive inconsistencies in his thinking" - an action which I had issues with at the time. I thought Chuck was out of order then - not the fact that he stopped the plane from being blown up, but that he so euphemistically rationalised forcing someone to think the way he does. Xorneto's almost mock-innocent defence of trying to do the same thing serve as a nice inditement of Xavier's hypocrisy - Chuck *is* a bit of a cultural imperialist, whether he'd admit it or not...
 
 
Quimper
14:50 / 16.09.03
I think it's clear that...

1) Wolverine blew up the space station b/c he was really pissed off at what he had just read, and b) HE HAD TO STOP WEAPON XV, who just walked in.

2) The Xorn solo story is a brilliant narrative device on par with The Usual Suspects. Looking back, you don't know what was true and what was a lie. If anything, it's a testament to the masterful levels of deception Marvel's now most recognizable villian (thank you Sir Ian) is capable of.

3) Angel was in the shack protecting her babies, WITH XORN, who was probably feeding her promises of wanting to keep the babies safe personally. I can definitely see Xorn holding a gun to Sage's back in front of Angel to a) prove his loyalty to her in a way she'd understand, and b) not give away that he was Magneto, who doesn't need a gun.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
16:04 / 16.09.03
I think it's a bit harsh to say that Scott murdered Ugly John. He killed Ugly John, because Ugly John was dying, and doing so in great pain... that's a mercy killing, surely?

Dying... in great pain... sounds like Humanity to me.

Anyway, if I was Mags I sure as hell would have saved Lilandra just so I could gloat at a later date about saving Chuck's wife. Everything Chuck can do, Erik can do better... At least Erik thinks so.

Does anyone with crafts fu or scanner fu know how to actually make a "Magneto Was Right" shirt?
 
 
Aertho
16:53 / 16.09.03
Dude, there was a "Magneto Was Right" T-Shirt post just few days ago. I got mine and I just bought red dye. Hurry up and order yours before Marvel catches up.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:03 / 16.09.03
OK, before I move on, my reading of the end of the last issue? Wolverine has found his answers, he's at peace, finally something he's been wondering about for years may have been settled. Weapon XV comes in, wanting to know why he is. Wolverine holds up the remote control for the screen and is effectively saying 'the sanswers are here' because he's going to leg it to join Cyclops and DangerMouse in EVA, so they can fly away while the satellite explodes around Weapon XV.
 
 
The Falcon
17:14 / 16.09.03
I thought it was pretty obvious what he was doing too, I have to say.

Sorry, lady.

And while we're critiquing Charles, I'd still have to say that what happened here was more heartbreaking than anything else. It's perfectly obvious that he's a good man, and cares immensely about the children in his charge. Didn't think he was being patronising to Sooraya at all.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:28 / 16.09.03
At some point, I think it might have been as Claremont was finishing his run, he had Magneto say to Charles "I walked down your road once, isn't it fair you try walking down my road for a bit" or words to that effect.

So, Charles is possibly minded that pacifism and co-existence isn't the answer, Cyclops has come to the conclusion that never-ending war with humans is inevitable, Xorn never existed, Emma's going to leave as the mansion is far too dangerous, Beast seems to be moving toward a generally more mutant-centric philosophy and Jean is probably about to loose interest in human kind and fly off to the nearest star or something. So, Magneto's biggest problem might be that he's working on an old paradigm while the X-Men are potentially in a position to transcend it. Does he know about the extinction switch in the human genome that Beast found? He's been sitting down with them for over a year, but was Magneto concentrating too much on Xorn and spinning his plans to notice the X-me were changing around him?

Because this was what the X-Men seemed to be turning into at the end of the first year of Grant's run before he lost interest. they didn't need mankind's approval or disapproval because mankind wouldn't matter in about a century, or even less. So they were restructuring into an organisation to look after mutants and lift them out of harms way while the humans thrashed about in their death throes beneath them. Then we had Xavier wanting to open up the school to humans and it all got confused to the point that I'm not sure what Xavier stands for any more, just that it's bad, like Magneto's view, and that they will be taught the truth, either by the new generation of mutants who don't care about 'The Dream' they just don't want to be discriminated against in the queue at BurgerKing, or by The Phoenix. One of the panels after the Asteroid M explosion seemed to suggest some sort of particle trail between the Asteroid and the Sun, which is more or less what happened to Phoenix the first time...

If it's good Grant writting the next few issues (the one that wrote Doom Patrol, Animal Man, Flex Mentallo, JLA and the first year or so of X-Men) we should be all right, because it'll be the clash of worldviews, if it's bad Grant (who wrote the last six months of X-Men) then it'll be the clanging of muscles and empty heads we'll hear.
 
 
Twig the Wonder Kid
17:48 / 16.09.03

Last time I dropped by this site the the post-now was upon us, the memeplex was exploding and our identities were all in flux.

Now, on my return, ten pages (so far) of discussion are devoted to a story with an intellectual depth and radicalism roughly equivalent to contemporary Coronation Street.

Xorneto? is this some mutant ice-cream brand?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:59 / 16.09.03
Wow, Twig. I'm astonished by the toxic levels of borecore in your post. Sorry that we're collectively not nearly as pretentious as we used to be.

Anyway, I think you're on to something, Lady - Magneto probably doesn't know about that extinction gene. He's putting everyone in danger, probably without realizing that he doesn't really need to do anything if he'd just be patient. That's great.

As for Logan at the end of #145 - what on earth gave you the impression that he was at peace? He seemed deeply disturbed by whatever it was that he learned, enough so that he was suicidal. He found out what he really was, and he hates himself for it. I think the end of #145 is one of the high points of Grant's run in general.
 
 
Twig the Wonder Kid
18:13 / 16.09.03

... and now our identities are all in "Flux". discuss.

Has to be said though: all this blather managed to carry me, of my own accord and in broad daylight, into the local comic pit for the first time in over a year.

Whatever it is, it's worked.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
18:43 / 16.09.03
Flux, I've got #145 open in front of me right now, I'm genuinely not seeing any kind of existential despair in what he looks like or says, but more like a kind of satisfaction to have learnt 'the truth' (in a way that allows the next writer to say "Aah, THAT'S not the truth"). Plus, Fantomex is setting charges and telling Logan he has ten minutes, it seems odd that suddenly Logan has the charge to set the explosions off, not to mention the fact that the self-destruct seems to hardly affect the station at all, next issue. And where did the people go? I don't know, let's blame Bachalo's art yeah?
 
 
diz
19:02 / 16.09.03
Wolverine has found his answers, he's at peace, finally something he's been wondering about for years may have been settled.

did you even read what he said? where on earth did you get the idea that he was at peace?

i mean, seriously, if you didn't know what was going on in the last issue, what the hell were you thinking? ~is baffled~
 
 
diz
19:09 / 16.09.03
the self-destruct seems to hardly affect the station at all, next issue. And where did the people go? I don't know, let's blame Bachalo's art yeah?

it does affect the station. in fact, it blows off all the station superstructure and reveals Asteroid M beneath.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
19:49 / 16.09.03
dizfactor plays the gee-tar on the MTV did you even read what he said? where on earth did you get the idea that he was at peace?

From the words dizfactor, the words wot Morrison did wrote.

So explain to me your reading of it then? What was it that clued you in to this being the worst moment of Wolverine's life?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:02 / 16.09.03
The despondent tone of resignation in his dialogue and his crazed facial expression were the big clues for me. If he's at peace, it's only the kind of peace one has just before they decide to take their own life, which is what he tries to do.
 
 
The Falcon
21:23 / 16.09.03
I'm, personally, stunned at the amount of rectitude going into Flux' posts here.

Incredible.
 
 
FinderWolf
01:41 / 17.09.03
For the record, I, an impartial outsider in this debate, thought Logan seemed quite crazed and potentially suicidal at the moment in question as well - it seems very clear from the dialogue and Bachalo's art (see crazed look in Logan's eyes, hard to miss I think).

Anyway, I'm just looking forward to #147 so we can get a sense of where Grant is going with all this cool shit.
 
 
diz
06:01 / 17.09.03
i don't have 145 in front of me, but IIRC he has the crazed look that Flux mentions, explains to XV that "it seems some people are only good for killing" or some such, and then blows himself to bits.

it seems pretty open-and-shut to me...
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
09:36 / 17.09.03
Ok to stop the arguing:

I have 145 open in front of me now. The splash page of Wolvie and Weapon XV has Wolvie looking mighty pissed.
In the next panel he's holding the detonator and looking... just normal.
Then he looks down at the detonator, no obvious signs of rage or despair.
Then he presses the detonator. Here we can definitely blame Bachalo's art because Logan looks neither angry or sad, maniac or content.. in fact he looks like a gummy old man.

Sigh, and I avtually like Chris's art.
 
 
The Falcon
09:49 / 17.09.03
I like Bachalo, too, rawkus. And I think Wolverine looks 'manic' there.

At the end of last ish, I was like 'Fuck's sake. Logan's attempted suicide. That won't be successful when you've a franchise to prop up.'
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
10:00 / 17.09.03
Manic... I dunno Duncan he just reminds me those 'amusing' video's of gurning old men in that frame.

I kept thinking "Oh, they've been blown up in a spaceship... again... thats always a sign that everyone survived."
Big explosion = no casualties. Almost a law of comicbook nature.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
11:38 / 17.09.03
Hey I've got an idea about Xorn's blue energy and light up mask. Maybe it's just an artist showing us that Xorn's using his powers and/or it's just a new artistic representation of what Magneto's powers look like.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:12 / 17.09.03
Somewhere way back in the earlier pages of this thread, there was some comment like ‘boy, I’m glad you’re not writing this comic’ from one poster to another (who to who is irrelevant)… but given how many people posting here appear to be intent on telling us aspects of the story which don’t actually appear to be on the pages that have actually seen print, and telling us what Grant is doing here, I think that there’s a lot of writing going on here. Which may prove to be inaccurate given that we’ve got a way to go with this story yet.

As for the issue, now I’ve read it, I feel it was … all right. Exciting to have so much happening all in one issue, but it all felt a bit clumsy and rushed, despite the art being more clear than the last few issues. The dialogue seemed a bit off to me, as someone else observed, but maybe that’s because Xorn’s speech patterns seemed more like Magneto’s… as for the face behind the mask : an interesting twist, but unlike the Caulder revelation in Doom Patrol or the realisation of who the man under the tree talking to Maxine was in Animal Man, it was far from ‘of course!’ accompanied by a forehead-slap. More like the end of Tim Burton’s version of Planet of the Apes than the end of the original version – ‘what the … huh ? How’s that gonna be explained ?’ etc.

Assuming, of course, we are going to have some explanation – I’ll be rather disappointed if a lot of this doesn’t get explained, though it might be a bit of a burdensome issue if we have Maggy gloating and saying ‘ah, Charles, it was easy to make the bird fly and look reborn’, and so on to cover all the queries people have raised in this thread and elsewhere.

Interesting issue, and I’ll be keen to see how the story proceeds, and what’s explained and what isn’t. And yes, I DO need it explained in the comic, as I’m paying for the writer’s story, not to have holes in it plugged by other people. Reminds me on a certain level of the old Bill Hicks gag about fundamentalists saying “ ‘I think what God MEANT to say was…’ - I’ve never been that confident.”

Still, as Twig pointed out, it’s stirred up a lot of interest, and doing that on the basis of the story is pretty nifty when you consider U-Decide and the other less seemly ways of getting attention.
 
 
Sebastian
12:29 / 17.09.03
Still talking about this?

It looks like there are at least four versions of 146. I think you should scan them and toss them around to see if they are actually the same.

Just envious of course.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:04 / 17.09.03
Well, for my part, I don't care if Wolvie's facial expression was meant to indicate that he's looking forward to an afternoon of playing with his Hello Kitty toys. I just want #147, ASAP!
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:12 / 17.09.03
I'm just lovin' all these theories and exposition on what's going on!!!

Very reminicant of thos old Invisible days...

Who is the Harliqunade and such!!!
 
 
I The Golden Dawn-nie Darko U
18:11 / 17.09.03
The Harlequinade was Grant Morrison.

Which brings me to my point: The man on screen attacking Fantomex, tell me dears; Grant Morrison writes himself in again?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
18:14 / 17.09.03
Xorn is the Harlequinade is Magneto is Keyser Soyze is I-Life is all of us.

But seriously... This was just the Big Reveal issue. Twenty-one pages just to set up the "impossible reveal" at the end. I'm certian the part where Chaz Palmentari looks around his office and realizes who he just let through his fingers will be coming shortly. Whether the story is pants or class will hinge on that.
 
 
makeitbleed
02:30 / 19.09.03
Just curious if I missed the part in this thread where someone pointed out that Basilisk put a "Kick Me" sign on the most dangerous mutant in the world.

Also, Ethan, if you're reading, could you comment on whether the original depiction of Xorn with a skull (for the picture used for the cover of 146) was part of the commitment to keeping this a secret?

Finally, anyone know exactly when 147 comes out (U.S./U.K)?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
02:34 / 19.09.03
#147 is October 1 in the US.
 
  

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