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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men #146 (SPOILERS)

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Matthew Fluxington

12:31 / 08.09.03

Let me explain something to you, Radiator.

Grant Morrison doesn't own the X-Men, or any of the characters that he has introduced to the X-Men. When he leaves the X-Men comics, those comics go on. It is not up to him whether or not future writers/editors will carry on his philosophies (it's a good guess that they will not.) So , if he's going to be a nice guy and a professional, he finishes his stories, wraps up all of his story threads, and leaves his little corner of the franchise neat and clean so that the next guy coming on to write the comic can do whatever they want with it. It's courtesy. Grant Morrison was placed in a relatively unique position when he was offered the comic - he was allowed to do whatever he wanted and tell his own story. Grant's doing his part to make sure that his successor can do the same thing.

So, ideas in manifesto = wishful thinking. What's actually happening = Grant being a professional.

Did anyone really think Magneto was dead? It's better for Grant to bring him back than, say, Chuck Austen, TRUST ME. And fuck that bullshit about "this was supposed to be self contained, blah blah blah" - Magneto is an essential element of the X-Men, always was, always will be, and virtually everyone familiar with the franchise knows this. Come on. Do you really need to know all about the continuity of the X-Men to be aware of the fact that Magneto is the archnemesis? Do you also think that when people buy new issues of Batman, they aren't aware of The Joker?

Also: Preview editions of new comics arrive at comics stores one week in advance of their street date. This is not a new thing. It's not a hoax. How do you think you get those previews on Popcultureshock et al?

Flyboy, you're such a clever guy.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

12:34 / 08.09.03

And if the mags revelation is the SHOK REVEAL at the end of the issue, remember that when a TV company wants to guard an ending like a nun guards her hymen, they sometimes make false endings- for want of a better example the "who shot Mr Burns" episode of the simpsons. Could be they got phil to knock up a fake. Or this rumor could be the way to boost orders phil was talking about- without the real plot twist, of course.

Matthew Fluxington

12:36 / 08.09.03

And Christ, it wasn't really a manifesto, it was a pitch. Let's get things straight. There are loads of things in that pitch that were altered/nixed by the editors before even the first issue was written. Why is anyone treating that thing like it's some kind of gospel?

Matthew Fluxington

12:39 / 08.09.03

Right, it's a fake plot twist, even though it totally fits in with everything that's gone on before.

How much money do you really think Marvel has to waste on a comic that doesn't even sell that many comics in relative terms, Radiator? I'll give you a hint: not nearly as much as you seem to think.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

12:42 / 08.09.03

It's a good pitch, I wish for it not to be altered.

And do pop a valium, dear chap.

12:55 / 08.09.03

Grant's doing his part to make sure that his successor can do the same thing.

I dunno... it makes his run seem rather inconsequential to me.
There will be no lasting effects, no continuation of the ideas he'sinfected the X-men with, whether they are good or bad.
It reminds me of the nineties run, where anything can happen because it'll be resolved or undone in a few issues time anyway.

If GM's theme for the X-men is Change vs Stagnation, New vs Old I think Old just won.

13:08 / 08.09.03

Totally. Because the next issue is the last one, eh?

13:11 / 08.09.03

Could Cassandra have been Weapon XIV?

13:12 / 08.09.03

what won is the marvel franchise machine, same as it always does, as sure as magneto lives to fight another day

just enjoy it for what it was, a good comic writer got to have some fun with the biggest characters in comics for a few years, and so did we

in fact i've not read a men in tights comic for 12 years and last month i started buying the NXM trades and they are really good fun, despite the lack of spandex, as much fun as the claremont glory days were back in the 80s

a

Matthew Fluxington

13:43 / 08.09.03

If GM's theme for the X-men is Change vs Stagnation, New vs Old I think Old just won.

Oh, and there's no possibility that it was the point all along, especially considering the fact that Grant planned this all out before the first issue was published, right?

Has it ever occured to you that all of the ideas that you are clinging to are from the perspective of Charles Xavier, a guy whose illusions are constantly being shattered? He's been set up for a fall, and so have you.

It seems like some folks here just can't handle the concept of "GRANT DOESN'T OWN THE X-MEN." Did you ever really think that things were always going to be this way? It's a self-contained 42 issue epic. It'll have an ending, and then something new will start after it. So fucking what?

If Grant didn't have to be beholden to the past decade of X-writers, why should the next writer have to keep on writing Grant's stories? Lord knows I love New X-Men to bits, and I admire Grant Morrison, but if I was offered the job to follow him on NXM, I'd drop at least 75% of his baggage and go my own way.

13:44 / 08.09.03

Which makes me think the only way to answer everyone's wishes is to kill of Xavier too. That leaves whoever Xorn is alone and without a ruse to play at all. Xavier vs Magneto is THE old duality that keeps us stuck in the OLD. Does the idea of the X-Men NEED Xavier? It sure doesn't NEED Magneto. And Wolverine seems to know it doesn't need HIM. I think I'm the only one who actually think Wolvie OUGHT to die on that spaceship?

13:51 / 08.09.03

Lord knows I love New X-Men to bits, and I admire Grant Morrison, but if I was offered the job to follow him on NXM, I'd drop at least 75% of his baggage and go my own way.

Well, I don't think you need to worry about that.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:52 / 08.09.03

Let's get one thing clear: assuming Xorn is Magneto, then I have no doubt Morrison planned this all along. He loves this shit - the Professor in Doom Patrol, Luthor being behind Aztek, Cassie X...

Someone called RichardQ made a good point on the Millarworld thread: in the Genosha memorial issue, Toad tells Xavier that all Magneto ever wanted was for Charles to admit that he was wrong and Mags was right. By the end of 'Riot', Xavier is halfway there: "my approach may be in error". Then in #145, Scott says that humans will never accept mutants at all, and that war is inevitable. Which is to say, he's pretty much come round to Magneto's point of view...

(I find the idea that the Weapon Plus satellite is Asteroid M the most improbable aspect of all this, but it occurs to me that funding Weapon Plus would be a *really* good way to make mutants more militant.)

13:55 / 08.09.03

And Chesed, it's a duality that would appear to have got far more complex and next-level over the piece, given the smidge of info we currently have.

I mean, we could have had a future story with Beak/Angel vs. Quire, and it'd still be predicated on that duality.

14:04 / 08.09.03

ladies and gentlemen.....

mr duncan falconer.

[hours of applause]

makes all the 'it's apocalypse, no it definitely is' look

pretty
fucking
stupid

doesn't it? now who was that again?

14:16 / 08.09.03

Maybe Xorn isn't Magneto...

Maybe he just thinks he is when he absorbed his personality (when he turned into a black hole)

That's still my theory.

Matthew Fluxington

14:17 / 08.09.03

Does the idea of the X-Men NEED Xavier?

Yes. It needs Xavier because he's the visionary guy who brought them together and made the school. The X-Men is about a school, nevermind what Chris Claremont was trying to do in the late 80s. It needs Xavier, or at very least, someone to stand in for him.

It sure doesn't NEED Magneto.

No, it does. It needs someone charismatic and likeable who has a more cynical and negative view that is based on anger, self-pity, and prejudice to be at odds with Xavier's utopian dream. The story needs Magneto to have the best of intentions, but to be corrupted. Since Xavier and Magneto already exist and are famous fictional characters, why recreate them? Let's say Xorn wasn't a bad guy, and Quentin survived - would future X-Men comics featuring Xorn Vs. Quentin be necessarily better, or would they just be the same old thing with characters that far fewer people give a damn about?

And Wolverine seems to know it doesn't need HIM.

Wolverine is wrong too, and Marvel's licensing people would like to tell you that you're both wrong about that. Wolverine is the charismatic human core of the X-Men. He's the more realistic, down to earth version of Xavier.

I do think that if Wolverine had to die, that the end of #145 would have been the perfect way to resolve the character.

14:29 / 08.09.03

Holy Damn! I just realized something!

Xorn isn't Magneto!

Xorn is.....JASON TODD!!!

14:36 / 08.09.03

And you've broken down the elements so far that you've proved me right. Xavier is only necessary as a unifying element one way, and Magneto as an opposing unifying element. Those still exist if both died. One remains part of politcal culture, and the other exists as the school. They don't need to exist physically anymore.

But movies and action figures will make that impossible. I know that. I'd love for there to be more to the Xorn ruse, but I'm afraid that there isn't. It'd be nice if Xavier's fear of confrontation with Xorn will make him believe (and through telepathy make everyone believe) that he's Magneto, but that's too advanced.

They don't write stories or make movies for people like me.

15:07 / 08.09.03

It is possible that Xorn absorbed a disembodied, totally elecromagnetic Magneto when he went black hole.

Xorn's only line before that event horizon is "Nuuu......"

Ao Jun, when Sublime realizes that he betrayed him, says that this is his revenge for keeping him in that prison with "this INCOHERENT monster."

After the black hole, Xorn is completely coherent and says very Magneto like things like "I could have created heaven on earth had they let me."

It is possible that the real Xorn was indeed a monosyllabic, incoherent man-child.

15:36 / 08.09.03

End of Speculation...

Now I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this but I have seen this issue and the stories are true. The very nice guy from DEADHEAD COMICS in Edinburgh (great shop) let me have a look at his preview copy that's on the wall behind the counter. The final page is Xorn with his helmet off, Magneto underneath. Xavier is on the floor in the foreground. Xorn/Magneto says something like "X-MEN emergency indeed, Charles - The dream is over". Or "The dream is dead" or something along those lines. Behind him is one of those "MAGNETO WAS RIGHT" posters.

I got thinking about this yesterday when I was walking home and it struck me how I'd been so thrown by Xorn's comments to Quentin Quire as he died. When he said there was something like him in QQ I didn't ever dream what he might have meant.

Anyway, there you have it, the truth which you can all confirm on thursday (well, wednesday I suppose, if you don't live in the UK....).

15:41 / 08.09.03

Heh... Jason Todd...

What a load of shit that turned into. Lets pray my faith in Morrison is justified....

17:08 / 08.09.03

just for kicking around, here's a gonzo Xorn/Mags idea.

Magneto is "killed" on Genosha, but is really more transmuted into an ambient magnetic field. freed from the restraints of bodily existence, he develops even greater control over gravity and electromagnetism ... and becomes something very much like a star. he collpases himself into a black hole, bends spacetime or something, and hurls himself back about 50 years into some poor kids' head in rural China. he bides his time until his past self becomes his present self and then re-emerges.

thoughts?

17:21 / 08.09.03

It doesn't have to be anything like that sci-fi techy complicated.

The only mutant power that Magneto has ever really be vulnerable to is telepathy.

So he's devised an excellent strategy for confounding their prying minds - false memories/virtual realities: Xorn, Cassandra, Fantomex, and probably Dust.

At the same time he's set all the major telepaths against one another.

And he's the one villain who knows Xavier well enough to be able to exploit all his character flaws.

This is so high camp soap opera - not just 'classic' comic super villainery, but something out of Dallas or Dynasty - the villain assumes a false identity, coming back from teh dead to take his revenge.

17:25 / 08.09.03

On the point about whether Cassandra is part of Weapon Plus ... well she and Weapon XV both make the same comment, "All of this is mine..." - could be coincidence or a hint of common development.

But my guess is she was Weapon XI or XIV.

Keith, like a scientist

17:54 / 08.09.03

"just for kicking around, here's a gonzo Xorn/Mags idea.

Magneto is "killed" on Genosha, but is really more transmuted into an ambient magnetic field. freed from the restraints of bodily existence, he develops even greater control over gravity and electromagnetism ... and becomes something very much like a star. he collpases himself into a black hole, bends spacetime or something, and hurls himself back about 50 years into some poor kids' head in rural China. he bides his time until his past self becomes his present self and then re-emerges.

thoughts?"

Holy effing crap. That just SOUNDS like Grant. It's totally the timesuit/Robin/King of All Tears thing.

But, to modify that theory a bit: Magneto, realizing he is pure electromagnetic energy purposely collides with the Chinese kid because he knows about Xorn by then...time paradox, baby, time paradox!

Keith, like a scientist

18:02 / 08.09.03

hey, does pop culture shock change their preview pages, periodically, because i swear this wasn't there last week.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

18:29 / 08.09.03

Sorry...I have been told by someone that Xorn is actually Bucky.

Or is it Uncle Ben.

Maybe it was Fin Fang Foom.

I dunno...but it was pretty cool, whatever it was.

Along the Wolverine lines, I read an interview with Greg Rucka, who said that while he was writing the Wolverine series, he realized that Wolverine as a character can't really exist on his own. He's got to have other characters to interact with and play off of, and his character only works while the member of a team.

Matthew Fluxington

19:10 / 08.09.03

Keith Masaru, it can't possibly be that complicated. After all, we know now that he takes the helmet off, and it's Magneto's head. There's no star at all.

19:20 / 08.09.03

I think Diz came up with the time paradox Magneto/Xorn theory, Kieth's off the hook.

As much as I hate to admit it, Magneto as Xorn isn't that bad an idea. It devalues my emotional expectations for the book, but it gives Phoenix a chance to actually tell BOTH Xavier and Magneto to fuck off.

Keith, like a scientist

19:59 / 08.09.03

hahaha, yeah, that was Diz's theory I quoted. I just think it's so friggin' fun, I couldn't resist.

i wonder how Magneto is creating that Xorn head beneath the mask. Can he just emit blue light in a big burst that would constantly obscure his face?

Matthew Fluxington

20:10 / 08.09.03

It'd be really funny if Xorn's blue light was basically just a flashlight that Magneto bought at K-Mart and built into the mask.

20:18 / 08.09.03

It'd be really funny if Xorn's blue light was basically just a flashlight that Magneto bought at K-Mart and built into the mask.

it's a glowstick. Magneto's a raver.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

23:06 / 08.09.03

Maybe he just thinks he is when he absorbed his personality (when he turned into a black hole)

I don't know if there's any need for something that complicated. Perhaps Xorn just realized his own place in the nerrative was to oppose Xavier's views. Characters are confronted by their own place in the story all the time in Morrison books. Look at the last Ish where both Fantomex and Wolverine are confronted their own metanarritive identities.

The revalation both gives me pause and makes me excited about the next few issues. On the one hand, it dosen't seem in keeping with what we've seen of Xorn pre-Riot at Xavier's. However it lends such amazing depth to the Special Class camping trip and especially the Xavier/QQ/Xorn death scene.

"There is something in you that is like me."

And I'm with those who thinks that Xavier dosen't 'get it'. Quentin in his last moments 'got it' and was either set free or killed by Xorneto.

As much as I hate going back to the Invisibles metaphors, rather than Xorn as Mags being a "this is the be-all and end all" revaltion, I think it's more like a "Holy shit, John-a-Dreams is Outer Church!" revalation.

Murray Hamhandler

23:36 / 08.09.03

I was thinking that it'd be funny if someone got suspicious, yanked off Xorn's helmet, and we saw this:

But, you know, different heads. And a bigger motorcycle.

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