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Angel- current us seaon spoilers (& some Buffy6 too)

 
  

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Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
17:15 / 16.05.02
Angel's season ender is just one hour, and I'm thinking they will probably go with a cliffhanger ending, especially since they are moving Angel to Sunday night, the WB's worst night for ratings.

I STILL think that Buffy's season this year has been mostly a waste. The Nerds of Doom have been OK as a Big Bad, but the tearing apart of everyone's lives could have been done a bit faster. I think it is a problem with a LOT of fan-friendly series when they say that they will break everyone down in order to make the triumph bigger when things turn around. Dawn has had nothing to do this year but be scared, her "stealing" subplot was almost dismissed, and the other subplots were projected so strongly that none of the Big Shocks were surprises.

Angel, on the other hand, tends to do things that seem perfectly logical and are still shocking.

Odd, but I think it has a lot to do with Whedon's concentrating on Angel more than Buffy.
 
 
gridley
12:48 / 17.05.02
Remember when Angel had to help Groo get the magic condom so that Cordy and Groo could have sex without her losing her prophecy thing? Remember how at first Angel thought that Cordy was talking about getting a magic condom so that THEY could have sex. It think that's how they're going to get around the "moment of happiness" issue. Either that, or it'll be a side effect of the demon thing, right?
 
 
Trijhaos
12:53 / 17.05.02
That'd be interesting. Can they get more than one magic condom? I really hope they explore Cordy's demonic side more next season. What is she capable of?

I think the best way to end Angel this season would be a shot of Wesley and somebody from Wolfram and Hart shaking hands and Wesley agreeing to join the organization.
 
 
Saint Keggers
01:36 / 19.05.02
Thats what I said..Wesley in WR&H would so rock...and then he hires Willow to kill Angel and Buffy has to kill Willow to stop it and then after Willow dies Angel and Buffy get together they do the nasty and he goes evil when the magic condom shorts out. So Buffy kills Angelus and Xander kills Wesley for getting this whole mess started and then Cordey realizes she still loved Wesley and kills Xander for killing Wesley and then Buffy kills Cordey for killing Xander. Groo sneak attacks and kills Buffy for killing Cordey and then the host kills groo cause Hey, why not?
Then Giles arrives and kills Josh Whedon then goes after WR&H who it turns out is run by the Irish demon from the first season. They both decide "screw it" and spend eternity singing irish and englis drinking songs in a local pub. Sorry for all the spoilers.
 
 
Trijhaos
00:57 / 21.05.02
So that's it then?

I feel sorry for Grue. Poor guy.
Where's Wesley's scar? It wasn't visible in the last episode either.
No Cordy/Angel hookup? Those powers are some real bastards.
I knew it. I knew they'd end it that way. Damn cliffhangers.
 
 
Saint Keggers
03:48 / 21.05.02
Just wondering..Am I the only one who has a problem with the idea of good demons???
 
 
Anathema
09:12 / 21.05.02
Regarding the Spike/rape scene, I didn't really perceive it as him trying to rape her.. I don't really know what he was trying to do, but I don't think it was rape in the common sense. It seemed he was trying to get her to breakdown and admit her feelings for him and it manifested, as is his nature, in a rather physical and aggresive nature and hence he lost control. The look on his face afterwards when he "came to" showed that he had not initially intended to hurt her.

As to why she came off in that scene as being so weak, it could have had a lot to do with her true feelings for Spike. She is physically strong enough to kill him, being The Slayer and all, but there seemed to be a part of her that didn't want to fight it... which is why she initially struggled and cried rather than fight back. She has been fighting this "love him/hate him" duality in herself all along.

Just my two cents, and for what it's worth, I thought the entire season was excellent from start to finish... haven't seen the final episode yet (11 hours and counting!) but I have no doubt that it will not disappoint. My only regret is that I cannot suck information out of books and smite mine enemies in the manner of my new hero, Evil Willow.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:43 / 21.05.02
Am I the only one who has a problem with the idea of good demons???

I'm sure lots of other people have this problem - Billy Graham's probably with you. Joss Whedon however has shown that he likes the idea of demons being as capable of all shades of morality as humans.
 
 
Trijhaos
15:59 / 21.05.02
How do you feel about good vampires?
 
 
gridley
16:36 / 21.05.02
hmmm.... what happens to a vampire who can't get any blood? he doesn't die? does he just go into a blood-withdraw coma? Or does he just go mad? and doesn't a mad vampire have the strength to break out of that poorly constructed box?

anyone here watch Highlander (the series)? One of the immortals had gambling debts and his enemies gave him a pair of concrete boots and threw him into the ocean. Where he died and was reborn and then died and then was reborn over and over for like a hundred years. Now that was harsh....

not sure I trust the direction they're going in with Cordy... they really risk making her uninteresting....
 
 
Trijhaos
16:44 / 21.05.02
A vampire who can't get blood? I don't know. Maybe s/he'll lose that human look. You know, they start looking like a corpse. I used to watch Highlander, but I missed the entire last season of the show.

I heard a rumor that the reason Cordy is being called to another plane is because Charisma Carpenter is leaving the show. Of course, then there's the other people who say "No, no, she's signed up for the next season".
 
 
cusm
19:42 / 21.05.02
Regarding the Spike/rape scene, I didn't really perceive it as him trying to rape her

Of course not. He just wanted her to understand... couldn't she understand? He'll make her understand. I love you honey, I only hit you because you just won't shut up.

Domestic violence is ugly ugly stuff, and the people in abusive relationships are sometimes so blinded by their issues they don't even realize what they are doing is wrong. The rape scene was along those lines. He did it because he's a broken mess, and of course he felt terrible about it. But he'd still have done it if she didn't manage to stop him.
 
 
Anathema
21:09 / 21.05.02
cusm: Re: Spike/Rape... I totally see what you mean. I guess my point was that it didn't seem like what he was after was sex, that the intended outcome of his attack was not to force her to have intercourse, but to force her to admit (at least what he believes to be) her true feelings for him. His actions in the bathroom were not really any more violent than any of their previous fight-than-fuck scenes.
 
 
Trijhaos
00:59 / 22.05.02
Spike has a soul! A soul! Woo hoo! A soul!

Great episode

What are the repercusions going to be though?

Woo!
 
 
gridley
01:10 / 22.05.02
good question.

does spike with a soul = angel with a punk rock attitude???

or does spike with a soul = william the piss-poor poofter poet???


so, I guess the moral of tonight's episode is that there's no woman so powerful that she can't be brought down by a man who tells her he loves her, eh? nah, I'm just kidding. it was fun.

great seeing Giles again....
 
 
Trijhaos
01:14 / 22.05.02
When I first saw Giles toss out that magical blast, I thought, "Damn, Giles has been holding out on us".

What are the repercusions of Willow's imitation of Hannibal Lecter going to be? You know, are we going to see Willow in a therapist's office next season. "Well, you see, the guy killed my girlfriend and I was pissed...."

Now I'm not too clear on this soul thing. Is he now a vampire with a soul or is he human?
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
01:17 / 22.05.02
A vampire with a soul, in theory, should be like you or me (if you have a soul), just with vampire powers. If Spike wants to be a fuck so be it, if he wants to make sweet soulful love to Buffy so be it. We shall see. Thought it was pretty cool ep, esp Dawn showing her worth with the blade...
 
 
Trijhaos
01:19 / 22.05.02
I think it'd be more interesting if Spike got humanized. If he's a vampire with a soul, does the same thing hold true for him as it does Angel. You know, lose your soul when you experience happiness bit.

Dammit! I want answers! I can't wait for what 6 months? I want a new episode now!
 
 
Captain Zoom
02:07 / 22.05.02
The happiness thing was only a condition of Angel's curse from the gypsies. From what I can tell, Spike wasn't cursed. Though he might say differently once he starts feeling regret for what he's done.

Any word on the "Giles" show? Are they still doing it, or are we going to see him in season 7?

Zoom.
 
 
Tamayyurt
03:08 / 22.05.02
Ah, beware the monkey's paw! Ok, so now Spike has a soul AND a chip in his head. Poor bastard. Too bad they all hate him now. Still it'll make for good stories. Also I hope they don't go around calling him William now that he has a soul (Angel/Angelus) cause that would be lame.

And Xander saving the world using love. You know, it sounds utterly stupid but it was really well done. Not only is he a great friend, but he's got balls!

Great episode.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
11:37 / 22.05.02
And as we all know LOVE IS THE 5th ELEMENT!!!

Bah, only saw the last 5 mins due to lack of inteligence in my community (see thread in convo for details)
 
 
gridley
12:13 / 22.05.02
Now that Spike has a soul, I think HE is going to be Dawn's watcher.
 
 
Trijhaos
12:30 / 22.05.02
Umm....why does Dawn need a watcher? Unless you mean watcher in the babysitter sense.

I think Spike is human now. He was never a vampire with a soul. He was a human with a soul. Maybe this'll be the return of William the Poet.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
12:48 / 22.05.02
ohhh, fun
"I used to be Spike, the big bad. Now I'm william, the hopelessly bad and foppish poet!"
 
 
gridley
12:58 / 22.05.02
It would allow Spike's character to have an arc again. Watching William the poet slowly becoming Spike all over again, albeit this time with a soul.

And, Trijhaos, don't play coy with me. You must suspect that season seven will be about training Dawn to take over as Slayer for Buffy....
 
 
Trijhaos
13:04 / 22.05.02
Connor would be a better slayer.

Dawn as Slayer might work. It'd be nice if at the end of the series, Buffy could lay down her weapons and live a normal life with William, without worrying about vampires, demons, and other nasties invading the world.

Why would the CoW want Spike as a Watcher?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:09 / 22.05.02
cause he looked soooo cute in gilses suit
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:10 / 22.05.02
er, wait, that was Randy's suit
 
 
Mazarine
13:49 / 22.05.02
I agree. Connor for slayer. Well, destroyer. Well, random cute boy who broods more than Angel and just loves violence.
 
 
Tamayyurt
15:25 / 22.05.02
How about a Dawn vs. Connor episode? (hah, that'll learn her.)
 
 
gridley
15:59 / 22.05.02
The only requirement to being a watcher is that you be British.

Even Giles has a checkered past....
 
 
Seth
18:22 / 22.05.02
Buffy/Angel story pitch meeting:

Greenwalt - "Any ideas for next season?"

Whedon - "Well, we could always give Drusilla a soul. Or make her human."

Greenwalt - "Well, it worked the last three times. Maybe we could bring the Master back and make him human too!"

Whedon - "Fuck me, I've just vomited up my own brain in self-disgust at my sheer lack of ideas."

Greewalt - "Are there any characters we can send to hell this season? Or better yet: maybe they can leap through a rift into another dimension! Or... get this - they can either sacrifice themselves or be sacrificed to close a dimensional rift that will destroy everything! Let's pull out all the stops!!"

Whedon - "Hush, my friend. Hush. I think we should shut-up shop and move on. I hear they're looking for new writers over on Enterprise for next season. I've had some amazing stories about temporal anomalies that I've been itching to use, and Star Trek's always needed more time travel stories..."

Next week: Chris Carter pitches dark conspiracy show to Fox
 
 
cusm
20:20 / 22.05.02
Spike: Hey Angel, guess what?

Angel: *grunts morosely*

Spike: I gots me a soul now. I'm like you, big guy!

Angel: Really? Will you turn back into a demon if you have a moment of true happiness?

Spike: Naa. *stamps out cigarette on Angel's desk* I can fuck Buffy all I want. I mean, seing as you can't and all, I hope you don't mind me picking up your slack over in Sunnydale...

Angel: *rips our Spike's throat* *feel bad about it all some more*
 
 
Trijhaos
20:23 / 22.05.02
Dru with a soul? Ummm...isn't Dru dead? If I recall correctly, Spike staked her.
 
 
Seth
23:05 / 22.05.02
The above post is a piss-take, intended to highlight the fact that the writers seem to be working their way round the quartet of Angel, Darla, Spike and Dru, making each of them either human or have a soul in turn. See? One idea fits all!

And Dru was never staked, although Spike claimed to be capable of doing it to impress Buffy.
 
  

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