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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Angel- current us seaon spoilers (& some Buffy6 too)

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21:04 / 04.03.02

No!!! It can't be true.

Wesley isn't dead is he? He's one of the most interesting characters on this show and he gets throat slit. You've gotta admit talking to a giant hamburger is insteresting. That's not right. If they're going to kill Wesley off, he should go off in a blaze of glory taken down by a bunch of demons or something.

Please tell me they're not going to bring in that damn Groo(?) guy to take Wesley's place. He's a shorter version of Angel for god's sake. He's just some prince guy or something from some other dimension. Oooooh, a prince without a kindgom. Damn guy probably can't even read.

Regrettable Juvenilia

21:28 / 04.03.02

The next episode's called 'Forgiveness'. Not much point calling it that if the person Angel really needs to forgive is dead...

The Natural Way

21:34 / 04.03.02

I've been assured that Angel's picking up a bit.

Should I give it a bit more of my time?

14:23 / 05.03.02

Yes, watch Angel. For the past couple seasons, it's been so much better than Buffy.

Fortunately, on the way to work today, I figured out a way Wesley can get saved in time, so I'm far less worried than I was last night, when I was going, "Err, err, no!"

14:49 / 05.03.02

Fear not for dear Wesley, all - in the cinematic world blood flow has a sense of drama...people only bleed when the camera's on them, meaning that their lifespan is considerably extended.

Getting real tired of the romantic pairing-off, though. Hopefully the whole shebang will get monkeywrenched in the near future.
The current Scooby Gang Mk.II dynamic is completely phucked. Gunn and Fred bore me...two weak characters stuck together don't make one decent one. For that matter, can't say I'm all that crazy about the baby...[chomp].

Maybe Wesley and Angel can go for one another...locate some sort of interesting homoerotic "loophole" in that curse.

Actually, my new theory is that Holtz and his gang are going to end up recruiting Gunn.

Any thoughts on Buffy, as long as we're here?
[sips coffee]

16:59 / 05.03.02

Has the show moved timeslots? I can't find it listed on the TV Guide site for next week or the week after.

17:14 / 05.03.02

quote:Originally posted by Mazarine:
Has the show moved timeslots? I can't find it listed on the TV Guide site for next week or the week after.

It's on hiatus for the next four or five weeks. Not sure whether it keeps the same time slot when it comes back though...

17:20 / 05.03.02

Angel is on hiatus. They better not show more 7th Heaven, I'm sick of that show.

I really hope Wesley doesn't die. Sure, at first I didn't like him because I thought he was just a poor man's Giles, but he's really proven himself to be interesting.

Fred's an interesting character, but it seems weird that she's suddenly ok and ready for a relationship. She spend 5(?) years in another world, that has got to mess you up somehow. Lately, I feel she just doesn't seem to have a place. She has no special skills, she seems to be the way Xander and Willow were at the beginning of Buffy.

I have no opinion of Gunn. He's just...there. He's a generic vampire hunter and frankly I wouldn't be too sad if he died.

The Host is pretty neat, but when's he going to get his club back? I liked seeing people there singing and all that. I'm tired of the hotel.

Connor? Ugh..I'm sick of the brat. Angel should not be cooing and making faces. He should be brooding dammit!

I'd like to see more about what being demonized did to Cordelia. In the episode where she was made half-demon(?) we saw her floating and that was it. I want more. Does she have an ugly demon face like Doyle did?

As for Buffy, I think its gotten a bit stale. Buffy works at a burger joint? Boring! Buffy boinking Spike? Boring! I want that sexual tension back. The last episode with Riley was pretty interesting, but I'm getting sick and tired of those three geeks. I want Willow to screw up, go all evil, and have to be killed or something by her friends. Dammit, I want angst!

23:13 / 05.03.02

quote:Originally posted by gridley:

It's on hiatus for the next four or five weeks. Not sure whether it keeps the same time slot when it comes back though...

I am thoroughly infuriated. Hell and damnation.

00:19 / 06.03.02

"Hell and Damnation."

WHY Mazarine - how on earth did you figure out what the next few episodes are going to be about?

Anyway, RE: Buffy...anyone have some theories on the future of Spike/William, what with the collapse of his Buffy-boffing thing?

02:50 / 06.03.02

Well my opinion on the show is...(or KEgboy complains that the tv isnt right yet)

Kill off Gunn...I dont like him. He's a younger Blade but without the vampire bit.

Groo...die die die! (although he was suprisingly good on E.R.).

The Host...I could take or leave him.

COnnor...He's a blood sip-sak...why cant Angel admit it and off the little tyke. They complain about lack of money...sell him to the Nike factories.

Fred...I want her to go psycho. Too quiet as she is. I want her to kill Gunn (actually I want anyone to kill Gunn)

Angel: Just because the show is named after him is no reason to keep him around.

But killing his kid would do him a world of good.

Cordelia: Wont she just kill Groo? For me? Please.

Wolfran & Hart: I like them. An honest look at lawyers.

In summary...

This show needs some fat trimmed now. (but bring back Doyle)

The Natural Way

07:37 / 06.03.02

Mmmm...have been watching Angel on and off. Don't agree w/ the "better than Buffy" thing. As soon as Angel throws up an episode as good as 'The Body' or 'Once More With Feeling' I'll eat my words, but in the meantime.....

08:57 / 06.03.02

I'll admit in the past Angel hasn't been as interesting as Buffy, but here lately I think Angel has been a great deal more interesting than Buffy. Next weeks episode looks fairly interesting what with Buffy being in a nut house because all her time in Sunnydale was just something she made up.

The latest episodes of Buffy have just been blah. Its like "Oh yeah, we need a monster" and they throw some pathetic excuse for a monster on the show. I'm sick of those geeks, they are not proper antagonists for Buffy. I'm not asking for some big bad-ass monster like Glory, but come on you've gotta be able to come up with somebody better than those three.

Another thing I don't like is that they didn't at all touch upon Dawn stealing all that stuff. It was like "Oh, Dawn's stealing" and then forgot about it. How is this going to affect the relationships between Dawn and the rest? Are they going to be able to trust her?

Last nights episode pissed me off. I thought "cool, finally there's gonna be some happiness", not so. These people deserve some happiness in their lives.

I think the problem with Angel is that it hasn't been on as long as Buffy and you really haven't gotten a chance to get attached to any of the characters other than Angel and Wesley.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:57 / 06.03.02

It strikes me that Season 6 is in some ways a return to the format of Season 4, wherein the 'villains' or physical antagonists are really a red herring: the biggest obstacles in the Scooby gangs' lives are personal ones, and the most interesting and crucial conflicts are with each other.

The latter half of Season 5 dealt with the idea of the unstoppable, unkillable baddie who just keeps coming and coming and will not stop until you and all your friends are dead, very well (plus piling on extra pain and death to make the situation even harder) - after you've had the big bad be a god, it's hard to ramp up the scale of the threat even more. Instead, Season 6 seems to be unfolding as an exploration of one of Buffy's most important themes: that for every action, there are consequences. In this case, it's about the consequences of the things 'good' people (Scoobies) were forced to do in an impossible situation (fighting Glory) - and about the way that things can't just go back to being the status quo.

For Buffy, this is about dealing with the consequences of her self-sacrifice and subsequent resurrection, and the nature of her relationship with Spike (which really changed dramatically once Glory stepped up her game).

For Willow, this is about dealing with the consequences of her resort to using "darkest magicks".

And now it looks as if for Xandar, this is about dealing with the consequences of what was in retrospect a rather ill-advised proposal of marriage.

08:57 / 06.03.02

quote:Originally posted by Trijhaos:
Last nights episode pissed me off. I thought "cool, finally there's gonna be some happiness", not so. These people deserve some happiness in their lives.

I was so thoroughly depressed by this. Especially after some of Anya's lines while she was getting ready, which made my sentimental little heart all glowy-like, and then... fuck.

I'm gonna adjust the thread title to reflect the presence of Buffy spoilers. But I do it very sadly.

The Natural Way

10:38 / 06.03.02

Spot on. Everything Fly said.

They went as far as they could w/ the 'enemy without', so what else could they do? You knew it would all go bad as soon as Will's eyes went black.

UK Buffsters: loved the down, down, down into the underworld sexantics of the last ep.

15:52 / 06.03.02

If this latest season is introspective and stuff great. I'm not one of those people who watch Buffy for the action and mute all the talking parts.

What's the sense in having a villain though? Its really not necessary and quite frankly I don't think the geeks have added much to the season except for comedy relief.

Take last night's episode for instance. Nothing got killed and the only real violence was the frying pan incident. I thought it was the best episode of the season.

Buffy doesn't have to have a monster in each show to be good. Take the episode where Buffy's mom is in the morgue and Dawn goes in to see the body. That vampire wasn't necessary. That episode would have worked beatifully without that addded bit of violence.

17:26 / 06.03.02

My only demand of Buffy is that Spike be alright...

speaking of which...didn't see yesterday...any further developments?

18:33 / 06.03.02

Buffy continues to make me feel unpleasent and squishy inside. While it might be great drama, its getting tedius to watch any more.

Oh look, the lives of the characters slip a little further into hellish misery. Joy. Can we move on to something more interesting yet, please?

03:11 / 07.03.02

Am I the only one on the board who likes the three geeks?. Sure as a Seasons BIG BAD they suck..BIG TIME but I think that its great just to see how some of the normal people that Buffy has to interact are affected by what happend to them and what they do about it. I wouldnt want a superheroe bad guy every week (like smallville).

I would love to see some shows where nothing happens. Absolutly nothing...and then to have a show where they start to freek out about how unaturally normal everything is...get paranoid about it even.

05:59 / 07.03.02

the three geniuses started out as something dumb-funny, but they're getting progressively darker. they started out as losers attempting to be comic-book villains. now they're rapists and murderers. in like them as contrast to a Big Bad, specially Glory, who as a god is hard to top as a nemesis.
the old Lord Acton maxim about power corrupting, etc., etc.

05:59 / 07.03.02

They're not rapists. They're would-be rapists. The mind-control wore off before anything could happen. I'm not sure, but I think two of the geeks (the summoner guy and the mage) are beginning to have doubts, especially after the girl was killed.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

02:07 / 08.03.02

quote:Originally posted by cusm:
Oh look, the lives of the characters slip a little further into hellish misery. Joy. Can we move on to something more interesting yet, please?

I know...that seems to be the death knell for any series when their lives become endless misery and all the joy leaves the show. I always think back to when I got sick of Hill Street Blues because every week, someone close to Belker had to die.

Now Buffy has become "Who will they sit around and feel bad for this week."

The bad times don't mean anything if there isn't some joy once in a while. THAT'S what is missing this year.

The Natural Way

06:57 / 08.03.02

It's kind of why I think the 7th series should be the last. Make the focus vampires again, get the team back together after their horrid encounter with the superhuman (Glory, lots of death, etc.) and bring back the fucking Master. It would be a brill capstone.

But one of the reasons I'm loathe to moan about the series is because I'm still really enjoying the show. I understand what Rose means when she says endless suffering characters = series' death knell, but I'm also with Fly. What we are seeing in series 6 IS the logical extension of all the shit that blew up in 5. This is the fallout. Something huge and immortal moved through the scoobies lives last series, and it brought w/ it superhuman themes: death and responsibility. Adulthood, basically. If they sort this they should emerge as happier campers - grown ups.

I'll wait and see. If the team behind Buffy continue to put everyone through the ringer next time around, I might revise my opinion. At the moment it works, both narratively and thematically, but......I'll wait and see.

16:03 / 09.03.02

It's been said before, and I'll say it again, Willow should have become the bad guy this season. The only way they could top Glory would be for it to be one of their own. Anyone remember how brilliant the second season was once Angel went evil. And Ms. Hannigan has it in her to play that kind of evil.

Ah well, maybe next season.

Zoom.

16:12 / 09.03.02

The only way I can see Willow going evil is if something extrememly bad were to happen to one of the gang. You remember how pissed she got when Glory screwed with Tara's head? What would happen if, say, Tara was killed?

I figure if Tara got killed off, Willow would snap, go back on her vows to stop doing magick, and dive into the swirling maelstrom of evil. I hope it doesn't come to that, but its the only way I see Willow going all evil.

Anya becoming a vengence demon again, though looks like a good possibility.

07:29 / 10.03.02

Buffy = Friends. Stock pairings. Actors impersonating their characters. Characters getting lines just because the writer feels they haven't said anything for a while. "Humour" revolving around mannerisms that have been set in stone since the first episode. Bottom of the barrell baddies & situations.

In the UK, we've seen them research a jewel heist. For two episodes. They still haven't found out who did it, so it'll be in the next episode too. Most weeks I ask myself why I'm still watching as soon as the credits roll (some weeks it's hard to sit through at all).

10:53 / 10.03.02

The characters on Buffy are getting stagnant. I see two real solutions to this.

1). Kill somebody off. If you think about it Willow, Spike, and Tara are the only three characters who can actually HELP Buffy and Spike and Tara aren't a real part of the gang. Xander? Usually manages to screw something up. Makes corny jokes. If he does help, its usually a fluke. Anya? Really haven't seen her do anything to help and cares more about money than anything es. Dawn? suffers from Little Sister Syndrome. feels that she should be a part of big sister's plans. usually gets kidnapped. Not useful at all. Spike? helps fight of course. Willow? used to do the old hocus pocus thing, quit that but is still really good at research. Tara? Only one who does the whole magick thing. Buffy may need magical back-up once in awhile.

So kill someone off. Killing off Joyce was great, it shook the characters up, but she really wasn't integral to the story, you know? She didn't have her picture in the opening credits.

2). Put the cast on a rotating schedule. We don't need to see Xander and the rest every damn episode. Tara's in 16(?) of the 22 episodes and she is not as grating as Xander. Why? Probably because she isn't seen in every episode.

18:10 / 10.03.02

I reckon they need to go on the offensive. It's the only way to save the series. At the moment they're just waiting in Sunnydale, the forces of evil are piling on, and they're getting more and more fucked. They need to take action to kill evil at the root. There's only so much reacting they can take: sooner or later they have to wipe out the demons/vampires once and for all.

11:45 / 13.03.02

quote:Originally posted by Trijhaos:
If this latest season is introspective and stuff great. I'm not one of those people who watch Buffy for the action and mute all the talking parts.

That's just it, Trijhaos. I always watched the show for the incredible dialogue, but almost as soon as Joss Whedon stopped being involved in writing it, the quality of the conversation went straight down to that of the average Aaron Spelling show. No, scratch that, worse than the average Aaron Spelling show.

Remember all the great lines in the first few seasons of buffy. How a character would say something that worked on three levels: (1) quirky and funny, (2)hugely character developing, and (3) being an honest and relevent response to what was going on.

These days, the scripts don't look like anyone even did a rewrite. It's like, ok, here's the idea for the episode, let's see how quickly and poorly we can execute it. let's shy away from anything too dramatic, and make the characters sound like they should be on 7th Heaven.... Right, go!

11:59 / 13.03.02

I really hate to say this, but I think the dialogue of the latest episodes of 7th Heaven is better than Buffy's latest stuff. That's right. Let's put two and two together, Trijhaos obivously watches that horrible 7th Heaven if he knows so much about the dialogue.

Yeah I remember those episodes. The dialogue was great, the characters seemed natural. Now everything seems forced. I did like last night's episode though. It seemed like they may have started to get back on track. Spike's indignation seemed real and there wasn't much if any of the whole adding "-y" to the end of words. The scenes with Dawn really took me back to when the series still had that "magic" and I felt I was actually watching Buffy, not 90210 with monsters. Of course, now that I've said that, the next episode will be horribly forced, the characters will seem like cardboard stand-ups, and everybody will start wondering when Buffy is going to be put out of its misery.

The Natural Way

13:38 / 13.03.02

All this stuff about crap dialogue, comparisons w/ friends: big poo. But can't be bothered w/ it. Not going to read these threads anymore. Depressing.

Just to add: Joss plays a real big part in scripting/plotting each series. And there has never been a Joss-writing-Buffy golden age. I've got the writing and directing credits for each episode in front of me - he has about the same amount of input now as he's always done (give or take a couple of episodes). In fact the writers haven't even changed that much - Noxon and Greenwalt have always been constants. And Espenson's been around for ages, now.

[ 13-03-2002: Message edited by: You and Runce ]

14:03 / 13.03.02

Depressing? I'll tell you what's depressing. Seeing one of your favorite shows dragged through the mud is depressing. I love Buffy to death, but it should have ended last season. After showing Buffy's grave, they could have ended it on a happy note with Anya and Xander getting married and everybody saying "We have to accept it. Buffy's gone, but she'll always be with us in spirit. We have to go on, no matter how badly it hurts".

It hurts me to see the shit the writers are putting these characters through simply because they want drama. Fuck drama! I want a show that'll entertain me, cause me to think, and perhaps say "What a wonderful episode". I don't want to watch a show that fucking depresses me at every turn. I'm sure the writers are "oooh...let's see. who's life can we fuck up now". I will continue to watch in the hopes that it will get better, but to be truthful, it needs to be ended.

The Natural Way

14:15 / 13.03.02

But that's just it: I don't think I am watching Buffy get dragged through the mud. I think I'm watching the scoobies getting over Glory and dealing with the biggest monster of all: adulthood/responsibilty. I don't buy into this "it must be shit, it's run out of steam - we've reached season 6, it has to have done..." narrative.

And I still think the scripts're sharp (as does almost everyone I know, and, ummm...my mates are as critical as anyone, I guess), but I can't be asked to get into it...s'your opinion and that's cool.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:17 / 13.03.02

The thing is, people say that Buffy's lost its shine *every season*. At least for the last three... They tend to be happy once the Seasons have been wrapped up, though.

I think anyone who thinks the show should have ended at the end of Season 5 is missing the point - the idea that that particular 'death' served as any sort of closure is a mistake (arguably a mistake that Buffy herself also made).

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