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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Angel- current us seaon spoilers (& some Buffy6 too)

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14:42 / 13.03.02

hmmm....I may have been a bit hasty in my judgement. Now that I look back at the previous few episodes, I'm thinking that Buffy and the gang are being taken down to the lowest point they can be for a purpose. You know, right now Buffy isn't comfortable with her place in the world and her relationship with Spike, Xander ran out on Anya, it looks like Wilow lost both her magick and Tara, Dawn...well Dawn's just being an angsty teen, and it looks like Anya may be about to do something drastic. I think in the next season, if not the next few episodes, these characters are going to have to overcome these things they see as shortcomings and really shine. I'm starting to see the show Buffy as a phoneix. You know here you've got one season, its great and all everybody likes it. The phoneix is alive. The next season is fairly depressing, a number of people don't like it. The phoneix is dead and so on and so forth.

Yeah...I'm liking that whole phoneix analogy, it makes this season bearable if not down right interesting.

18:58 / 13.03.02

So what did you think of the last episode? Cardboard cut-outs? I personally loved it. I loved that they ended it at the hospital. I know I say this a the end of every episode this season but...I think this is a good place for that phoneix to get up.

19:04 / 13.03.02

I loved last night's episode. I really felt bad for Dawn when she said (I'm probably paraphrashing here), "I'm not even there,am I? Its your perfect world and I'm not there" with the tears running down her face. How horrible. I just sat there speechless.

The way the episode ended really made me think. What if Sunnydale really isn't real? You know, what if Sunnydale is Buffy's Wonderland? Sure, a screwed up Wonderland, but a Wonderland all the same.

23:01 / 13.03.02

That would explain a lot... I'm glad she chose her fucked up Wonderland

The Natural Way

06:53 / 14.03.02

Yeah, another thing about the "should have ended w/ 'The Gift'" bit: Buffy's contracted to run for 7 seasons. I'm all for this - I'm enjoying watching the characters deal w/ all the adult stuff. It's definitely territory worth exploring. Just as valid as childhood/teen/student stuff. Sure, it's not all sunshiney school steps, but that's okay - Joss will do the happy thing again, only certain processes have to be worked through first. And this is where I disagree w/ expressionless (well, I disagree w/ him in almost every respect, but, right now, I'm focussing on the whole "the characters are static" deal). The idea that the script sounds old and tired, because the characters haven't evolved, is just plain wrong. The evolving/maturing theme is the strongest current running through Buffy - it's not difficult to spot. Willow is not the same Willow she was in season three, let alone season 1....blah....
The difference wouldn't be so easy to pick up on if the script writers simply decided to rest on their laurels and churn out stock bollocks. And the idea that a team of writers, most of whom have been w/ the series for yonks, and have invested loads of time and energy developing the characters that you love, would suddenly just "not give a shit" seems rather unlikely.

And that thing that Fly said about people moaning about the new. Oh, BTW, has anyone viddied 'Reading the Vampire Slayer' yet? Some good stuff in there.

08:40 / 14.03.02

quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:
The thing is, people say that Buffy's lost its shine *every season*. At least for the last three... They tend to be happy once the Seasons have been wrapped up, though.

Not really. The fact that season five had a superb second half doesn't change the fact that the first half of the season was patchy as hell (patchy is also true of seasons one and four). And as for the current season... Buffy is capable of covering in one episode the amount of development that now seems to take place in three or four - compared to Angel which is juggling so many threads it's dizzying to watch (to be honest, maybe Angel is covering too much ground too quickly). Yeah, Buffy is about growing up and maturing: I won't question the themes, but I will question the quality, and I do think the quality of scripts are poorer than past seasons.

But then, this thread is demonstrating that a lot of people are enjoying it. I'm not right now. But I'll keep watching, as the show has a habit of surprising. A couple of rules in life: never write off Buffy or Wu-Tang Clan. They both go down blind alleys and waste time on occasion, but they are capable of amazing things. However, when those amazing things turn up (and I hope to God they will), it won't change my opinion of the sub par stuff I'm sitting through at the moment.

16:15 / 14.03.02

Its definitely painful, but its painful in a very well done way. The episodes hurt, but they do it well, and the hurting is good. I do miss the more actiony Buffy, this is getting quite tedious, but its like a good horror novel or a tradgedy.

And of course, there's reason to believe that all of Sunnydale is a big hallucination, and that Buffy actually is lost in a cell somewhere. Kind of a meta reality. It certainly does explain the lot of it... Perhaps cheezy, but it made for a powerful moment.

20:31 / 14.03.02

I really enjoyed this episode as well, but I seriously hope that it's the last of Buffy's resolutions. It's like watching someone's New Year's over and over, minus the alcohol. She resolved to live after the whole invisibility thing, she resolved to actually be inher life at the end of "Older and Far Away", she resolved not to have sex with Spike anymore about eight times, but then it sounded like she really meant it the episode before the wedding.

I still think Willow might go bad. She made mention of "almost magicking her fist through a wall" when she saw Tara smooching that chick, and it would be a completion of the circle- Oz lost his control over his werewolf-ness upon finding out Willow was involved with Tara, it would make sense that Willow would lose control over her recovery if she found out for sure that Tara was involved with someone else. I think they'll do it at the end of the season though, torment us with a nice angsty cliff-hanger over the summer to make damn sure all of us keep watching the show. But who the hell knows.

00:01 / 15.03.02

The hope of Willow going bad at some point has kept me hooked more than anything else, I think. I know one day she's going to loose it and use the magick again... please

04:19 / 15.03.02

While watching last night's episodes on Sky (invisible Buffy paired with Darla suicide), I realised that everyone in Angel has a mobile phone, while no-one in Buffy can contact anyone else when something important has happened. It made me realise exactly how much time they spend unable to find each other in Buffy. Would they be able to fill an episode if they removed the search scenes?

12:59 / 15.03.02

quote:Originally posted by You and Runce:
Just to add: Joss plays a real big part in scripting/plotting each series. And there has never been a Joss-writing-Buffy golden age. I've got the writing and directing credits for each episode in front of me - he has about the same amount of input now as he's always done (give or take a couple of episodes).

But that's just not true Runce. Even if you haven't read the interviews where he talks about his lesser role in Buffy lately, common sense tells you that if he's co-writing the comics (Buffy, Fray & Angel), writing and directing the new outer space series, writing the animated show, writing scripts for hollywood, trying to get the BBC series started, and then splitting what time remains
bbetween Buffy and Angel, then clearly, he doesn't have as much input on the show as he did when his plate was (relatively) clear, i.e. the first three seasons.

And frankly, I think his lack of involvement sticks out like a sore thumb whenever characters open their mouths these days.

I still love the show and the characters when he's writing. And Angel works even without him 80% of the time. But Buffy...

[ 15-03-2002: Message edited by: gridley ]

13:18 / 15.03.02

Yeah, buffy totally rocks. What's this about a new outer space series?

17:31 / 15.03.02

quote:Originally posted by expressionless:
no-one in Buffy can contact anyone else when something important has happened

I miss the routine from the very begining of this season, where Willow would stand on top of a crypt being king of the mountain and talk directly into the others' heads.

18:16 / 15.03.02

Latest Buffy was excellent. Put me in mind of "Frame of Mind", the old Star Trek:TNG episode where Riker has a similar experience.

The ending at the hospital. I wonder. What this really means is that none of it, even the Angel series, is anything but a fantasy of some schizophrenic girl. I don't buy it. The ending was a walk away. Out from the room, past the parents and doctor and out into the hall until they weren't visible. Buffy letting go of the past, of her institutionalization. (Is that a word? Is now I guess) Had they played this aspect of her life up a bit, this episode would have been far more dramatic, even if it had just been cryptic references from her Mom or Dawn. I don't think Sunnydale's all a fantasy. It's just too cliched, though finding out that Mr. Whedon has had little to do with this season (if indeed that's the case) explains a lot.

I think they've been building up to this episode for most of the season. The way the doctor explains her grip on the fantasy becoming so tenuous was amazing. No more gods or vampire kings, but three normal humans. Friends and family falling apart. If I could find out for sure that this episode had been in the works all along, the rest of the season (which I've not been a big fan of) would start to shine in comparison.

Though the musical episode was sheer brilliance.

I think I'm far more interested in Angel these days, though Cordelia's hopefully temporary removal has me perplexed. Wesley dead or alive? Either one is going to bring some fantastic drama. And man, Alexis Denisov is a really fantastic actor. Looking back at his debut in Buffy and the amount that his character has changed is incredible. Yet he's still the same Wesley. Really great.

Zoom.

19:29 / 15.03.02

quote:Originally posted by Mazarine:
I miss the routine from the very begining of this season, where Willow would stand on top of a crypt being king of the mountain and talk directly into the others' heads.

"That way lies evil carnival madness" -Xander

20:15 / 15.03.02

This mental institution thing sounds a lot like a bunch of DS9 episodes. In DS9 it fitted neatly into the writer/author subtext, as well as complementing into established themes of racism and religious/ecstatic experience. I'd be very interested to see how Buffy works it into the arc.

20:42 / 15.03.02

quote:Originally posted by cusm:

"That way lies evil carnival madness" -Xander

And where there's evil carnival madness, there's comedy!

11:32 / 18.03.02

quote:Originally posted by invix:
What's this about a new outer space series?

It's called

Firefly, and they should start filming it very soon.

And despite my condemnation of recent buffy, I did catch the asylum episode last night and must begrudgingly admit that it didn't suck.

11:42 / 18.03.02

My problem with Buffy this season is that if I wanted to see that life is hell, and love doesn't last, everything joyful turns to ashes in our mouths and we're doomed to work at low paying, unsatifsfying jobs forever, then I'd just read the newspaper.

What I want Buffy to do is tell us all of this, and then laugh at it. Nobody in there has enough perspective to laugh anymore. And that's why Buffy sucks.

The Natural Way

12:12 / 18.03.02

I suppose that's the crux of it, really: you have to get into what this series is doing - *dark Buffy*. I quite like it, but I can understand that it might not be to everyone's taste. I especially enjoy the way that many eps employ a silly/lighthearted conceit/premise, but subvert it in a nasty way:

- The musical. Should be fun, right? Wrong. Let's all reveal our internal monologue. In front of each other.

- Amnesia. Again, should be fun watching the characters renegotiate their roles. And it is, but it's also miserable - underlining the alienation, etc. they normally feel. Goodbye baby rabbits.

- The "Super Villains". Dorks are fun, yes? No.

And so on.

Out of interest, how far ahead are you guys? We've just had ep 11.....

[ 18-03-2002: Message edited by: You and Runce ]

Tryphena Absent

15:29 / 23.03.02

My dad's over in the states next week in Washington and wants to watch Buffy and Angel. I was wondering if any of you could help me out with channels, times and days for when it airs?

Thanks

16:02 / 23.03.02

Um, Angel is Tuesdays on the WB and Buffy is Wednesdays on UPN. I've no idea channels, as that will vary depending on where you are. Up here in Canada, we get both on a Tuesday.

Wait, that doesn't work. Ah, anyone from the U.S. wanna chime in here so the Canadian guy doesn't look so dumb?

Zoom.

16:19 / 23.03.02

Eastern Standard Time, Angel's been on Monday at 9 on WB, Buffy's on Tuesday at 8 on UPN. However, Angel is on hiatus till April 14th or something close to that, and Buffy's in reruns for the next three weeks.

Older reruns can be caught on FX, though I have no idea what time.

18:44 / 23.03.02

On F/X the older Buffy episodes come on here at 5 and 6, which means they come on at 6 and 7 in EST and umm....I'm not too sure about pacific or mountain time.

Tryphena Absent

17:03 / 24.03.02

Thanks, I really appreciate that.

The Natural Way

06:45 / 25.03.02

Again:

How far ahead are you guys? What ep are you on?

Thanks.

08:46 / 25.03.02

How far ahead are we in which series?

Angel? I'm not sure. Lots of cool stuff happened, and it looks like Wesley may be dead or be narrowly rescued and end up in a coma for a couple episodes. gotta get that drama thing going

Buffy? The last new episode we got was the sanitarium episode.

Don't know the episode numbers.

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

10:46 / 25.03.02

The asylum episode is ep. 17, I think...5 weeks or so ahead of Sky.

12:31 / 25.03.02

but we won't have another new buffy til april 30th, so you've got plenty of time to catch up....

The Natural Way

12:35 / 25.03.02

Thanks Haus.

And Gridley.

01:13 / 16.04.02

Contains a plethora of spoilers for tonight's ep of Angel.

Fair warning....

Damn. That was different. I don't think I could have imagined an ending like that. I'm pretty psyched Wesley's alive, but I'm curious as to how this whole routine's gonna work out. I mean, we already did the whole Angel versus other good guys thing a couple seasons ago. Looks like Cordelia's going to be back next ep too, or relatively soon. It looks like they've changed the cinematography a bit, the fights looked much more like an action movie, kinda grittier. I like it a whole lot better. Anyway. Now we've got new Angels and Buffy comes out of reruns on the 30th. All in all, not bad.

02:54 / 16.04.02

Spoilers (duh! it says so in the title!!)
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Yeah I thought it was great. Nice way to bring it all together. But im sure the end snippet is going to end up Weslye's dream or some such thing.I hope they dont get rid of that redheaded chick..she could be Angel's resident Faith-ian character.

04:55 / 16.04.02

Ah fuck, I missed it! Stupid finals!

10:02 / 16.04.02

Hot Damn! This is the way Angel/Buffy should be. That last little bit with Wesley and Angel was perfect.

01:03 / 17.04.02

Yup, perfect 'twas. My lovely wife denies vehemently that it's really Wesley, but I know better. She thinks Wes smells wrong. This is one of those times that we really need to have Buffy/Angel crossovers. I'd love to see Buffy come down to LA and suddenly find out how good she really has it. How many more episodes do we have left? Anyone know?

Evil Zoom.

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